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James

Daniel Jeremiah on Penny Hart

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Daniel Jeremiah on The MTS Podcast:

 

"Andy Isabella was my 188th player in this draft and went with the 62nd pick, he went to the senior bowl, couldn't catch anything, couldn't get out of a break, Penny Hart was better than him and he went undrafted."

 

The receiver room has a lot of talent in it. Could Penny realistically make the 53 man roster?

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15 minutes ago, James said:

Daniel Jeremiah on The MTS Podcast:

 

"Andy Isabella was my 188th player in this draft and went with the 62nd pick, he went to the senior bowl, couldn't catch anything, couldn't get out of a break, Penny Hart was better than him and he went undrafted."

 

The receiver room has a lot of talent in it. Could Penny realistically make the 53 man roster?

I have Hilton, Funchess, Campbell, and Cain as locks. If Penny balls out, he could easily make the roster as the 5th or 6th WR (if we keep 6).

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I am not saying he will or will not make the team but he will have his chance. We are pretty crowded at the WR position with a lot of competition so it will tough, but not any tougher than a couple of other WRs in the same position.

He may have some value as a kick returner so that could be a plus.

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It sounds more like a knock on Isabella than an endorsement for Hart.

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Will see. He doesnt usually keep small players. Hed have to really knock some socks off.

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2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

Seems like we put some emphasis on the Senior Bowl when it comes to evaluating talent.

After the Leonard draft and this year's draft, I'm betting the Senior Bowl is must see TV if we want to get a clue about possible draft picks. I think you are 100% right on Ballard's Senior Bowl emphasis where the best play the best.

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4 hours ago, James said:

The receiver room has a lot of talent in it. Could Penny realistically make the 53 man roster?

The odds aren't in Hart's favor but I wouldn't count him out.  The Colts are going to have some incredibly tough decisions to make on final cut day. 

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It'll be nice to see other teams picking up Colts players that didn't make their cut. 

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4 hours ago, James said:

Daniel Jeremiah on The MTS Podcast:

 

"Andy Isabella was my 188th player in this draft and went with the 62nd pick, he went to the senior bowl, couldn't catch anything, couldn't get out of a break, Penny Hart was better than him and he went undrafted."

 

The receiver room has a lot of talent in it. Could Penny realistically make the 53 man roster?

Penny Hart was the best WR during Senior Bowl practices BUT Isabella caught 7 passes for 74 yards and 1 Td during the game, so idk what the heck Daniel Jeremiah is talking about. When it mattered during the game Isabella was the best WR.

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Odds are very, very slim. Top 4 are TY, DC, PC, and DF. Chester Rogers has the advantage for WR5, and Fountain is there for WR6

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Penny’s path to a roster spot is the return game. He needs to make a splash returning punts

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He has a chance to make the 53 man roster.  But I don't think Daniel Jeremiah saying Hart is better than the receiver Jeremiah thinks is one of the worst in the draft is really high praise or praise at all.

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1 hour ago, GoColts00 said:

Penny Hart was the best WR during Senior Bowl practices BUT Isabella caught 7 passes for 74 yards and 1 Td during the game, so idk what the heck Daniel Jeremiah is talking about. When it mattered during the game Isabella was the best WR.

And the same could be said about Senior Bowl MVP Daniel Jones. Shaky week of practice and then balls out during the game.

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I liked Penny Hart a lot and had a 4th round ranking on him... he's not better than Andy Isabella though. Not even close. 

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

I liked Penny Hart a lot and had a 4th round ranking on him... he's not better than Andy Isabella though. Not even close. 

I've been watching more tape this morning on Hart and there really is a lot to like about him. I don't know if he makes the team but I'd be willing to bet that he catches on somewhere. A team looking for help at the slot will give this kid a shot. 

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Hart may end up like Jojo Natson. He may be a preseason darling and end up on another team.

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I think it was McShay who was talking up Hart a couple weeks ago on his podcast with Mel.

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9 hours ago, GoColts00 said:

Penny Hart was the best WR during Senior Bowl practices BUT Isabella caught 7 passes for 74 yards and 1 Td during the game, so idk what the heck Daniel Jeremiah is talking about. When it mattered during the game Isabella was the best WR.

Real stats will get you nowhere here :)

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9 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

It'll be nice to see other teams picking up Colts players that didn't make their cut. 

In the past it often seemed like Grigson cast offs went to other teams and balled out compared to how they did here.  Hopefully we now cut the right guys.  

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7 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

In the past it often seemed like Grigson cast offs went to other teams and balled out compared to how they did here.  Hopefully we now cut the right guys.  

 

Who? I can name cca. a dozen players who were cut/waived/let go by Ballard and ended up on another team's roster, but cannot recall a single name from Grigson's time. Help me out please.

 

(Update: well, I have one. Moncrief...)

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4 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

Real stats will get you nowhere here :)

Very true

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I like both Hart and Dulin as UDFA sigs. 

The review though bagging Isabella is harsh. He had a ton of production over the season, so I wouldn't dismiss that just based on a bad day at the senior bowl.

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  • On another post I said Penny Hart appeared more impressive the another UDFA diminutive RB Lexington Thomas.  The are both about the same same size at 5-8, Hart at 175, Thomas at 180, but Thomas is much faster and listed the 40 at 4.42 with one reported 4.29. Hart was good enough to be listed in Lindy's at a fair at best 4.62, especially considering his size but he seems to play faster.

 

Watching youtube highlights again of Lexington Thomas, I came away more impressed as he made some nice juke moves to get to the outside.  Plus his competition was better, showed highlights of a few runs against Ohio St. where he scored a TD and did break out for a nice run against big dog Ohio St., and Thomas must have been a marked man as the main offensive weapon for UNLV.  I think the Hart/Thomas gap is pretty close.

 

Also, I think Reich and Ballard realize a small breakaway player is an invaluable weapon, like a Darren Sproles or similarly Ny Hines.  The can score from anywhere on the field.  300+ lbs DT are great but they can't score 50+ TD runs or reception.  It may be an interesting keeper to have one of them make the team, to give us that added dimension, plus help in kick returns where we can be more explosive.

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10 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Who? I can name cca. a dozen players who were cut/waived/let go by Ballard and ended up on another team's roster, but cannot recall a single name from Grigson's time. Help me out please.

 

(Update: well, I have one. Moncrief...)

Anderson would be the only other I could think of.

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2 hours ago, ty4atd said:

Anderson would be the only other I could think of.

 

Yeah, and he actually is balling out fine (just got a 3 year 25 mill extension). I liked him, too bad he wasn't fit to this new defensive scheme.

 

An other one I could dig out is Good. Nomen es omen, he's doing quite good too :)

I think probably that's it though.

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13 hours ago, JPFolks said:

In the past it often seemed like Grigson cast offs went to other teams and balled out compared to how they did here.  Hopefully we now cut the right guys.  

 

 The only one I can think of is Jerry Hughes 

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36 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

 The only one I can think of is Jerry Hughes 

 

He was a Polian guy, right?

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9 hours ago, Caffrey said:
  • On another post I said Penny Hart appeared more impressive the another UDFA diminutive RB Lexington Thomas.  The are both about the same same size at 5-8, Hart at 175, Thomas at 180, but Thomas is much faster and listed the 40 at 4.42 with one reported 4.29. Hart was good enough to be listed in Lindy's at a fair at best 4.62, especially considering his size but he seems to play faster.

 

Watching youtube highlights again of Lexington Thomas, I came away more impressed as he made some nice juke moves to get to the outside.  Plus his competition was better, showed highlights of a few runs against Ohio St. where he scored a TD and did break out for a nice run against big dog Ohio St., and Thomas must have been a marked man as the main offensive weapon for UNLV.  I think the Hart/Thomas gap is pretty close.

 

Also, I think Reich and Ballard realize a small breakaway player is an invaluable weapon, like a Darren Sproles or similarly Ny Hines.  The can score from anywhere on the field.  300+ lbs DT are great but they can't score 50+ TD runs or reception.  It may be an interesting keeper to have one of them make the team, to give us that added dimension, plus help in kick returns where we can be more explosive.

 

If I remember right, OSU was up about 30 points and had its 2nd and 3rd line guys in when Thomas made that long run.

 

Not to say he isn't good, I really don't know much about him.  Both he and Hart are extreme long shots, but could make the PS. 

 

I didn't go through this entire thread but I thought I read somewhere that Hart may have been somewhat injured when they recorded his 40?

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11 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

 The only one I can think of is Jerry Hughes 

Shipley comes to mind.  He became a reliable starter after he was run out of here for horrendously bad Grigson favorites.  

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Good point about Lexington Thomas going up against 2nd or 3rd team defense Ohio St but they are still players wanting prove to their coaches they are capable.  Was not aware Penny Hart may have been hurt when he ran the his 40, which may the reason it was not as fast as expected.  That is what makes this forum a good thing, different perspectives and research.

 

For me, I would like to see Penny Hart or Lexington Thomas make the final 53 man roster or at least the practice squad.  May the best man win if they decide to keep one of them. 

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On 5/1/2019 at 1:52 AM, James said:

Daniel Jeremiah on The MTS Podcast:

 

"Andy Isabella was my 188th player in this draft and went with the 62nd pick, he went to the senior bowl, couldn't catch anything, couldn't get out of a break, Penny Hart was better than him and he went undrafted."

 

The receiver room has a lot of talent in it. Could Penny realistically make the 53 man roster?

 

On 5/1/2019 at 2:41 AM, crazycolt1 said:

I am not saying he will or will not make the team but he will have his chance. We are pretty crowded at the WR position with a lot of competition so it will tough, but not any tougher than a couple of other WRs in the same position.

He may have some value as a kick returner so that could be a plus.

 

On 5/1/2019 at 4:04 PM, PrincetonTiger said:

His shot will be as a Specialist 

 

Agreed with @PrincetonTiger and @crazycolt1 here.

 

As of right now, the way Hart can separate himself and make this team will be as a return specialist and on special teams.  

 

I would not be shocked if Parris Campbell gets some reps at PR/KR early on, but as he improves as a WR, I think Reich et al. will think he's too valuable at WR to risk injury in the return game.  

 

I think Hart and Ashton Dulin are both pretty long shots to make this team (maybe more likely to be practice squad guys).  However, if either was to do it, it'd be by really performing well on ST's during pre-season.

 

 

On 5/1/2019 at 4:09 PM, JPFolks said:

In the past it often seemed like Grigson cast offs went to other teams and balled out compared to how they did here.  Hopefully we now cut the right guys.  

 

My favorite quote from Ballard after the draft in a press conference he did with Reich was something along the lines of "You know you're doing it right when you cut your roster from 65 to 53 and guys 54-65 wind up being signed and playing elsewhere on Sundays." 

 

Other than Hughes, I don't really remember anyone Grigson cut going on to play very well elsewhere.  Grigson (IMO) spent too much time trying to be 'creative' and signing guys like Adongo and others who garnered very little interest from other teams.

 

I don't know that Ballard has us to the point where all guys from 54-65 will play elsewhere on Sundays.... but there are several players at DB/LB/WR and potentially DL/OL on this team who will likely be playing somewhere outside of Indy next year.  It's really the first time in a long time where I can remember thinking going into training camp that there are going to be hard cuts at numerous positions who wind up playing on other teams... good problem to have, IMO.

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All I can say is that 4.63 Hart ran killed his draft stock. But the film I've seen shows a much faster and more elusive WR than his Relative Athletic Score (RAS) shows.

 

Still.....he has a tough hill to climb to surpass Rogers as a slot receiver and lick returner. Quite a few names in between the two of them on the roster!

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27 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

All I can say is that 4.63 Hart ran killed his draft stock. But the film I've seen shows a much faster and more elusive WR than his Relative Athletic Score (RAS) shows.

 

Still.....he has a tough hill to climb to surpass Rogers as a slot receiver and lick returner. Quite a few names in between the two of them on the roster!

He is quick in short area, even his tape does not show great long speed. You can see linebackers chasing him down. 

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On 5/1/2019 at 4:09 PM, JPFolks said:

In the past it often seemed like Grigson cast offs went to other teams and balled out compared to how they did here.  Hopefully we now cut the right guys.  

 

Outside of Austin Blythe, I don't recall many other instances of this happening.

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Isabella's overall tape is much better.  I prefer Fountain's overall tape to Hart's as well.

 

Unless there are injuries, it seems the ship has sailed on Inman.  I just went back and watched some of the late season games.  It's hard to believe there is no place for Inman on this team.  Every team needs a few steady and reliable lunch pail-type vets IMO.  You can go overboard with the whole targeting athletic freaks thing.

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5 hours ago, #12. said:

Isabella's overall tape is much better.  I prefer Fountain's overall tape to Hart's as well.

 

Unless there are injuries, it seems the ship has sailed on Inman.  I just went back and watched some of the late season games.  It's hard to believe there is no place for Inman on this team.  Every team needs a few steady and reliable lunch pail-type vets IMO.  You can go overboard with the whole targeting athletic freaks thing.

Yup, Isabella's overall tape and production are light years ahead of Hart's. I like Fountain as a project long term over Hart as well. He has much better measurables. 

 

Crowded WR room, especially at X. But really if you consider all the back up needs (those that can move around), return needs, and those you know we aren't getting rid of, I just don't see room for Inman. 

 

Z -

TY - He's the only pure Z we had last year. Rogers was his only back up. Parris could factor

 

Slot

Rogers - also return guy. Was second if WR yards last year and backed up TY. Does a lot.

Campbell - not sure if he'll start out here purely, or be able to shift like Rogers to Z

 

X

Cain - you don't make recovery pump it up vids for someone that you plan to drop. PUP?

Funchess - spent too much to drop. Will play "big slot" too

 

Those are probably the 5 that are locks. I'm guessing we carry 6 on the 53 this year, and at least one on the practice squad, maybe even 2.

 

IMO, you have these guys remaining. Listing Inman just because we're talking about him

 

Inman - X and a little slot. Was reliable, not spectacular, good guy, but aging.

Pascal - X and a little slot. Did well last year while in. Younger project.

Vesay - X and maybe slot. 

Johnson - could project anywhere

Ismael - X and maybe slot

Hoagan - X and maybe slot

Hart - Slot or slow Z, return

Fountain - could project anywhere but likely X

Dulin - Z or slot, and return

 

I'm going to bet on Pascal, Fountain, and perhaps Dulin (mainly for returns). Maybe Hart (if he's much quicker than fast), and Johnson if he's improved. Way too many X types still on board. 

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