Player most likely to be cut

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

TY today on how players have to step up.

 

 

[JPFolks]

10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think you are way, way, WAY over thinking things.

 

In thus thread alone, in an attempt to cover every base humanly posdible, you’re all over the map.

 

Youve made several posts in favor of Moore, and now in THIS thread and now in THIS post you’re saying a rookie like Tell, who I love and is one if my favorite picks, he’s a lock, but Moore is not. 

 

Moore is one of the top slot/Nickel backs in football.   Probably one of the top 4-8 slots in the game.    Moore is likely to get a new contract in the range of 3 years and 21-25 mill.  He’s the 12th starter.   All these corners we drafted and guys like Collins are there so Moore doesn’t have to play outside when someone else gets hurt.   Moore will stay in the slot where he excels.  He’s not going anywhere. 

 

 

 

Though I am not sure if he's anywhere near the top 5 in slot coverage, we do essentially agree that Moore should be on our team.  If he TRULY gets beaten out by our rookies, we must have one of the monster DB collections in the league.   I was starting to think I had missed something obvious with many writing Moore's obituary already.  

[MPStack]

3 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

I think those that follow college football closely were quite familiar with Cain longggg before he stood out in camp. He helped lead Clemson to the National powerhouse they are and was showcased many times (Some believe him to be better than Mike Williams even), now for those who dont follow college ball I can see how just a strong camp doesnt relate to success in the NFL. but he did it at the highest level in college this was Grambling State's 2nd best wr we are tallking about here.

 I’m a bit confused with Grambling St. and Cain.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Kenny Moore was our second best defensive player last year. I  look for him to get extended before the season starts. For being such a small guy I am surprised he stays healthy. I also think with the edition of Houston Leonard and Moore could have even bigger years.

 

Lets not get carried away with our draft picks yet. They are rookies.

[holeymoley99]

Cain was a star at a national power in Clemson, while Rogers was a backup at Grambling State, no offense to Rogers but he couldnt even star at a low level college

[holeymoley99]

I think most forgot where Rogers came and how bad his college career was

[JPFolks]

12 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

I think those that follow college football closely were quite familiar with Cain longggg before he stood out in camp. He helped lead Clemson to the National powerhouse they are and was showcased many times (Some believe him to be better than Mike Williams even), now for those who dont follow college ball I can see how just a strong camp doesnt relate to success in the NFL. but he did it at the highest level in college this was Grambling State's 2nd best wr we are tallking about here.

EVERYBODY who watches ANY college football saw Clemson play.  i bet more people watched them than any other team in the country, including Alabama because Alabama had little competition all season until the playoff.  But people saw Clemson's rise in the playoffs and saw Cain play with Watson and his follow up QB.  I know I did.  But so what? I thought you were going to make a point indicating that they all overrate him simply because they know him as many casual fans might do.  If he was such a sensation, he wasn't going to be a 6th round draft pick.  After all, ALL the scouts from ALL the NFL teams were familiar with the Clemson players.  Still, he last until the 6th round.  

[MPStack]

2 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

I think most forgot where Rogers came and how bad his college career was

 

Translation: players from other than a Division I powerhouse will never succeed in the NFL, and 6th Rd picks from a Div I program are better than all small school players. Got it!

[holeymoley99]

You do know he fell not because of what he did on the footbal field but off of it correct ?

[JPFolks]

14 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 I’m a bit confused with Grambling St. and Cain.

I disagree with the dude, but I credit him with the likelihood he made a typo and meant to say "wasn't" instead of "was."  We all make typos.  But his argument doesn't make sense before the typo which I addressed above.  

[holeymoley99]

Well stats will show beyond a shadow of any doubt top colleges produce many more top NFL players than lower level schools especially those that struggle at low level schools. Sure hope you get it, would be sad actually if someone didnt....lol

 

Yep didnt catch the typo sorry about that but think the comments were easy enough to follow otherwise.

[JPFolks]

23 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

TY today on how players have to step up.

 

 

I think TY knows he just met his likely replacement down the road.  Let's hope he offers the same guidance that Harrison gave to Reggie and Reggie gave to TY.  If so the baton will be successfully passed, a Colts tradition! 

[NewColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Though I am not sure if he's anywhere near the top 5 in slot coverage, we do essentially agree that Moore should be on our team.  If he TRULY gets beaten out by our rookies, we must have one of the monster DB collections in the league.   I was starting to think I had missed something obvious with many writing Moore's obituary already.  

Honestly....   I think Moore might be viewed as the second best player in the defense. 

 

Now, we hope that changes this year.  Hopefully Houston will be better..  and maybe Desir...  maybe Autry...   maybe Hooker.   We want our young guys and high priced guys to be better.  

 

But I flat out LOVE Kenny Moore!   I think Ballard tries to reward him thus off-season.   Pay the Man!  

[holeymoley99]

Cain fell due to his failed drug test and I'm not excusing him for it that was a major mistake and I dont condone in the least but his talent on the field is undeniable and no reports of any failed follow up tests

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, JPFolks said:

I think TY knows he just met his likely replacement down the road.  Let's hope he offers the same guidance that Harrison gave to Reggie and Reggie gave to TY.  If so the baton will be successfully passed, a Colts tradition! 

No question TY will be a leader. Cain already mentioned how him and TY are tight. So he must be helping him also. TY has really grown into a great leader. TY is probably happy to this will give him some more single coverage looks.

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, holeymoley99 said:

Well stats will show beyond a shadow of any doubt top college produce many more top NFL players than lower level schools especially those that struggle at low level schools. Sure hope you get it, would be sad actually if someone didnt....lol

 

Rogers, currently has a better NFL resume than Cain. Is he a star? Absolutely, not. Does he bring more to the table than Cain at the moment? Yep!

 

Cain lasted until the 6th Rd for a reason. Now, he’s coming off an ACL injury with only a camp sample of playing time.

 

There is more depth at the WR position now. 

Hilton, Funchess and Campbell are locks. 

 

Rogers also brings return experience to the team with 53 receptions, which IMO pretty much guarantees at least to me, that he’ll be on the 53 man roster. 

 

Cain is going to have to prove a lot to make the opening roster.

 

Like, I stated earlier, I think he either ends up on the PS or PUP list for a sustained period of time. 

 

 

[holeymoley99]

Rogers has a better resume than Parris Campbell by that reasoing which is flawed. How does he bring more to the table at this point ? 53 catches with multtiple drops ?  What round did Rogers get drafted in if we want to compare apples to apples....oh right he didnt get drafted at all nor was he on anyone's draft boards. Return expierence but not good numbers doing so and we just brought in Parris Campbell among others, not like Rogers numbers were impressive.   I don't see any viable way Rogers makes it unless a rash of injuries occur, again it isnt his lack of effort its his lack of ability. He gives his all just doesnt have top nfl end talent, would be much worse if he had Roy Hall or Da'Rick Rodgers talent and squandered it like they did. Now that's a shame...

[Dilger85]

12 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

Rogers, currently has a better NFL resume than Cain. Is he a star? Absolutely, not. Does he bring more to the table than Cain at the moment? Yep!

 

Cain lasted until the 6th Rd for a reason. Now, he’s coming off an ACL injury with only a camp sample of playing time.

 

There is more depth at the WR position now. 

Hilton, Funchess and Campbell are locks. 

 

Rogers also brings return experience to the team with 53 receptions, which IMO pretty much guarantees at least to me, that he’ll be on the 53 man roster. 

 

Cain is going to have to prove a lot to make the opening roster.

 

Like, I stated earlier, I think he either ends up on the PS or PUP list for a sustained period of time. 

 

 

He lasted until the 6th round due to off field concerns.  He had second - third round grades.  He hasn't proven anything in the NFL that is true but he wasn't your typical 6th rounder.  I am wondering why that should matter though given Rogers didn't get drafted.

[JPFolks]

3 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Cain fell due to his failed drug test and I'm not excusing him for it that was a major mistake and I dont condone in the least but his talent on the field is undeniable and no reports of any failed follow up tests

Yeah, they are so confident in Cain's immense talent that they used a second round pick on a monster WR talent to pair with Hilton and Funchess.  Something doesn't compute.  I agree that Ballard is willing to bring on people with past trouble like Hill and Hunt (boy did they blow things up though) but he doesn't waste draft picks if he doesn't need to.  Look, I HOPE Cain is everything you say he is.  I saw him play well at Clemson.  I saw every national game they played give or take one or two.  But he wasn't THE guy at Clemson when he was balling out, he was the guy not being double covered in a prolific passing game and against quite a few teams who had non pro level 2nd corners.  His last year he dropped way off.  The QB still had big stats, but he wasn't being left alone as much.  I really think at the LEAST, if he was a monster talent, we would have picked him when we picked Fountain.  But we didn't.  Sure, you take a flyer in the 6th and maybe he becomes the best 6th round pick in Colts history.  But to date, he hasn't shown us ANYTHING yet.  Let's wait and see before we bump off guys like Rogers who was good enough that Ballard wanted him back even WITH Cain and Fountain on the team and the draft coming up.  He hasn't brought Inman back, but if he did or does it would mean he had zero confidence in Cain.  At this time Cain is the bubble man at best.  And Pascal and Fountain and the others are right there on the bubble with him.  Let's hope two of them look so good that Rogers goes.  Then at least we could all agree.  Until then, he needs to prove it.  

[JPFolks]

2 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Rogers has a better resume than Parris Campbell by that reasoing which is flawed. How does he bring more to the table at this point ? 53 catches with multtiple drops ?  What round did Rogers get drafted in if we want to compare apples to apples....oh right he didnt get drafted at all nor was he on anyone's draft boards. Return expierence but not good numbers doing so and we just brought in Parris Campbell among others, not like Rogers numbers were impressive.   I don't see any viable way Rogers makes it unless a rash of injuries occur, again it isnt his lack of effort its his lack of ability. He gives his all just doesnt have top nfl end talent, would be much worse if he had Roy Hall or Da'Rick Rodgers talent and squandered it like they did. Now that's a shame...

In response to the bolded line: You just proved our point.  He was all those things you stated, but he came here and EARNED a spot and significant playing time.  Cain hasn't done any of that.  

[Dilger85]

2 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Yeah, they are so confident in Cain's immense talent that they used a second round pick on a monster WR talent to pair with Hilton and Funchess.  Something doesn't compute.  I agree that Ballard is willing to bring on people with past trouble like Hill and Hunt (boy did they blow things up though) but he doesn't waste draft picks if he doesn't need to.  Look, I HOPE Cain is everything you say he is.  I saw him play well at Clemson.  I saw every national game they played give or take one or two.  But he wasn't THE guy at Clemson when he was balling out, he was the guy not being double covered in a prolific passing game and against quite a few teams who had non pro level 2nd corners.  His last year he dropped way off.  The QB still had big stats, but he wasn't being left alone as much.  I really think at the LEAST, if he was a monster talent, we would have picked him when we picked Fountain.  But we didn't.  Sure, you take a flyer in the 6th and maybe he becomes the best 6th round pick in Colts history.  But to date, he hasn't shown us ANYTHING yet.  Let's wait and see before we bump off guys like Rogers who was good enough that Ballard wanted him back even WITH Cain and Fountain on the team and the draft coming up.  He hasn't brought Inman back, but if he did or does it would mean he had zero confidence in Cain.  At this time Cain is the bubble man at best.  And Pascal and Fountain and the others are right there on the bubble with him.  Let's hope two of them look so good that Rogers goes.  Then at least we could all agree.  Until then, he needs to prove it.  

I would make the argument that Funchess was signed due to the unsure nature of Cain. Campbell was drafted due to upgrading Rogers.  Cain and Funchess are outside WRs.  Campbell and Rogers will play the slot mainly.  they might keep Rogers but he is on the bubble in my opinion.

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, Dilger85 said:

  I am wondering why that should matter though given Rogers didn't get drafted.

 

According to the Cain fans here, he’s a lock to make the final 53 and Rogers is on the outside looking in. 

 

I’ve yet to see anyone post a valid reason for Cain’s greatness.  

[Dilger85]

3 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

In response to the bolded line: You just proved our point.  He was all those things you stated, but he came here and EARNED a spot and significant playing time.  Cain hasn't done any of that.  

Cain has had one year in the league and he was injured.  How did Rogers make the team initially-outstanding camp.  Did he force out WRs with more experience?

I get what you are saying though, but I just don't see enough talent with Rogers to keep over Cain if he performs as he did last year in camp.  I do however think that Rogers will be kept unless they only keep 5WRs.

[Dilger85]

11 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

According to the Cain fans here, he’s a lock to make the final 53 and Rogers is on the outside looking in. 

 

I’ve yet to see anyone post a valid reason for Cain’s greatness.  

I am talking about in relation to where he was drafted.  You were using Cain being drafted in the 6th round as a mark against him but overlooking that Rogers who wasn't drafted at all.

 

Cain is bigger, faster, and more athletic.  He is also an outside WR so I don't even know if they would be in direct competition with each other.

 

Older veterans are cut due to potential of a more unproven player all the time.

 

However, I do not think Rogers or Cain will be cut unless they bring someone else in or keep less than 5 WRs.  Paschal, Fountain, Johnson are probably more on the bubble.

 

Of course Cain still has to go out and earn it though.  Who knows how he will perform after the surgery.

[Colt Overseas]

Most people have Zach Pascal naturally ruled out now that we will have Funchess, Campbell and Cain coming in. But honestly, I could see him beating out Rodgers, Fountain and Johnson for the 5th wide receiver spot due to his versatility. He is by far the best blocking WR on the roster, to the point which Reich was lining him up at Z and had him blocking linebackers when we tried to run to the outside. He was was also our kick returner and can probably be the back up punt returner. He can play both in the slot and on the boundary. He is not as talented as the 3 named above but he could be more useful.

[JPFolks]

9 minutes ago, Dilger85 said:

Cain has had one year in the league and he was injured.  How did Rogers make the team initially-outstanding camp.  Did he force out WRs with more experience?

I get what you are saying though, but I just don't see enough talent with Rogers to keep over Cain if he performs as he did last year in camp.  I do however think that Rogers will be kept unless they only keep 5WRs.

It was more than outstanding CAMP.  It was ALL preseason and then in the season, he proved he was still a guy that deserved opportunities.  And he's back this season.  Inman who we all agree (I think) was the second best receiver once he joined the team, did not get brought back (at least not yet and it looks grim at this point for him to ever come back).  I am not even a fan of Rogers, but he's proven to be good enough to make a roster and contribute.  Cain hasn't done that.  Pascal has done more than Cain at this point.  No one but me even mentions his name as being on the roster.   Why does Cain deserve all the adulation and assumed status he hasn't earned yet? He's not the highest draft pick on the team from last year.  He's not a guy who has played in a single game, even Fountain did that (while he dropped a wide open TD pass in a playoff game, but I digress).  At least people could say Fountain got on the field.  Pascal actually contributed to winning football.  Rogers was essentially our second best receiver at times during the season since the guy from the Redskins (I have scrubbed his name out of my mind) was a complete bust though he was considered our #2 in most minds prior to Inman.  So that means Cain has earned nothing and should be considered no better than 5th, in a tie with several other guys for that spot.  And he could be several slots down from that for all we know.  

[MPStack]

21 minutes ago, Dilger85 said:

  You were using Cain being drafted in the 6th round as a mark against him but overlooking that Rogers who wasn't drafted at all.

 

 

 

Absolutely, as Cain is not some high draft pick that can’t easily be cut, because a UDFA (Rogers) with 3 threes years experience, is currently a better option to be on the 53 man roster than Cain IMO. 

 

 

[JPFolks]

4 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

Most people have Zach Pascal naturally ruled out now that we will have Funchess, Campbell and Cain coming in. But honestly, I could see him beating out Rodgers, Fountain and Johnson for the 5th wide receiver spot due to his versatility. He is by far the best blocking WR on the roster, to the point which Reich was lining him up at Z and had him blocking linebackers when we tried to run to the outside. He was was also our kick returner and can probably be the back up punt returner. He can play both in the slot and on the boundary. He is not as talented as the 3 named above but he could be more useful.

FINALLY!!!! FINALLY I am not the only one who mentions Pascal!  It felt so lonely before.  heh.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I don’t think think they will cut Cain this year. They are going to give him a chance to be completely back after his ACL. It usually is the second year after being back you are at 100%.

 

Fountain, Johnson, pascal , and Rogers are all on the bubble.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, holeymoley99 said:

Cain was a star at a national power in Clemson, while Rogers was a backup at Grambling State, no offense to Rogers but he couldnt even star at a low level college

 

I wouldn't say Cain was a star. Would you call Charone Peak a star at Clemson? That was the spot he took on the depth chart when Peak went to the draft. Both were late-round picks. Cain has some upside...but I think every year WRs get overrated.

[Dilger85]

4 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

It was more than outstanding CAMP.  It was ALL preseason and then in the season, he proved he was still a guy that deserved opportunities.  And he's back this season.  Inman who we all agree (I think) was the second best receiver once he joined the team, did not get brought back (at least not yet and it looks grim at this point for him to ever come back).  I am not even a fan of Rogers, but he's proven to be good enough to make a roster and contribute.  Cain hasn't done that.  Pascal has done more than Cain at this point.  No one but me even mentions his name as being on the roster.   Why does Cain deserve all the adulation and assumed status he hasn't earned yet? He's not the highest draft pick on the team from last year.  He's not a guy who has played in a single game, even Fountain did that (while he dropped a wide open TD pass in a playoff game, but I digress).  At least people could say Fountain got on the field.  Pascal actually contributed to winning football.  Rogers was essentially our second best receiver at times during the season since the guy from the Redskins (I have scrubbed his name out of my mind) was a complete bust though he was considered our #2 in most minds prior to Inman.  So that means Cain has earned nothing and should be considered no better than 5th, in a tie with several other guys for that spot.  And he could be several slots down from that for all we know.  

True but judging by the coaching staff and front office comments, they hold Cain in greater esteem than you do.  Cain wasn't able to prove anything because he was hurt, that is different than not producing.  Cain has more natural talent but he most certainly will have to outperform the others with better track records but if it is close, they will keep the guy with more talent which is Cain.

[shasta519]

Surprise cuts? Not sure what would qualify as a "surprise," but here are some non-rookies that could  

 

Wilkins...if he is still fumbling the ball in camp.

 

Hairston...if the Tell CB conversion works.

 

All of the DL players are probably safe now that Ridgeway was traded. Maybe someone like Ward or Muhammad is replaced by another DL player.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dilger85]

12 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

Absolutely, as Cain is not some high draft pick that can’t easily be cut, because a UDFA (Rogers) with 3 threes years experience, is currently a better option to be on the 53 man roster than Cain IMO. 

 

 

So why is Campbell a better option then?  2nd Round.

 

Cain was projected to go in the 2nd round but fell due to character concerns.

 

He has second round talent which is why I think he will make the roster unless he doesn't respond well from the surgery.

[CurBeatElite]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think you are way, way, WAY over thinking things.

 

In thus thread alone, in an attempt to cover every base humanly posdible, you’re all over the map.

 

Youve made several posts in favor of Moore, and now in THIS thread and now in THIS post you’re saying a rookie like Tell, who I love and is one if my favorite picks, he’s a lock, but Moore is not. 

 

Moore is one of the top slot/Nickel backs in football.   Probably one of the top 4-8 slots in the game.    Moore is likely to get a new contract in the range of 3 years and 21-25 mill.  He’s the 12th starter.   All these corners we drafted and guys like Collins are there so Moore doesn’t have to play outside when someone else gets hurt.   Moore will stay in the slot where he excels.  He’s not going anywhere. 

 

 

 

 

I think Tell is a lock because he is extremely versatile.... Moore is a very good slot corner, but he's (IMO) kind of limited to slot corner.  Darius Butler was a very good slot corner, but that is about all he was (and age probably caught up to him)... 

 

Ballard really seems to like guys that can play all over the field, and he likes bigger/rangier CBs.  

 

I am rooting for Moore, you're correct.  However, the thread kind of evolved from 'player most likely to be cut' to later people discussing players who could be surprise cuts.  I think Moore could be a surprise.  I'm not saying it will happen -- I am saying, though, if we have a surprise cut in the secondary, I would not be shocked if it was Moore, as I think if we're going to try to keep several of the young DL/LBs and stick to 10-11 DBs, Moore is not as versatile as some of the other guys in the backfield.  He is a very good slot corner, but he can't play safety (like Wilson and Tell both likely could if necessary) and he does not fit Ballard's mold for outside CB's due to his size.  Ballard has said in the past, it took a lot of convincing from other people to take a chance on evening signing Moore since he's not the prototype for this defense.  Moore (IMO) struggled early as a Colt, but has since exceeded expectations.  I am rooting for him, but if it comes down to keeping a final CB/DB, I think guys like Tell are more versatile in the defensive backfield and probably have more potential as special team players.  Therefore, while I like Moore and root for him, I will not be shocked if he is one of the players we have to part ways with during final cuts.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, holeymoley99 said:

I think those that follow college football closely were quite familiar with Cain longggg before he stood out in camp. He helped lead Clemson to the National powerhouse they are and was showcased many times (Some believe him to be better than Mike Williams even), now for those who dont follow college ball I can see how just a strong camp doesnt relate to success in the NFL. but he did it at the highest level in college this was Grambling State's 2nd best wr we are tallking about here.

 

Who believes Cain to be better than Mike Williams? It's certainly not anyone that drafts for an NFL team.

[MPStack]

5 minutes ago, Dilger85 said:

they will keep the guy with more talent 

 

I wish more talent always translated to the football field. That would make everyone’s job easier.

 

 

 

 

[MPStack]

14 minutes ago, Dilger85 said:

So why is Campbell a better option then?  2nd Round.

 

Cain was projected to go in the 2nd round but fell due to character concerns.

 

 

Where did Cain go again? Never mind! 

[Pacergeek]

1 hour ago, holeymoley99 said:

Cain was a star at a national power in Clemson, while Rogers was a backup at Grambling State, no offense to Rogers but he couldnt even star at a low level college

Rogers played at an HBCU college. Not sure I would classify it as a low level. The best football players of all time played at HBCU. Walter Payton and Jerry Rice say hello

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Cain dropped for more reasons then just getting suspended. 

[Pacergeek]

Cain is 100% safe to make the team. Colts have made a documentary web series about his recovery. He is about to be a fan favorite