Colts sign RB Spencer Ware

[EastStreet]

22 minutes ago, krunk said:

Williams isnt a short yardage back. Hes more of a 3 down back. I look at him as competition for Wilkins. In some ways i think hes better than Wilkins.  Wouldnt be surprised if it turned into a Robert Turbin situation in that you have a guy travel around the league a little bit then find a home.

agree to disagree. Williams lacks speed (he's around 4.6). 

everything i've ever read on him describes him as a short yardage guy.

[krunk]

11 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

agree to disagree. Williams lacks speed (he's around 4.6). 

everything i've ever read on him describes him as a short yardage guy.

No

[JPFolks]

17 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

it's open to strategy/scheme, competition, injury, but also draft/FA pick ups (guys you might not need but want to give time). If you have a position that's struggling and you're trying to upgrade, you might carry more. If you have a position with injury issues, you might carry more. If you draft players in a position where the comp is close, you might carry more.

 

Last year's initial 53 man roster vs the anatomy article standards (or NFL avg).

QB - 2 / 2

RB - 4 / 4

WR - 5 / 6 (-1)

TE - 4 / 3 (+1)

OL - 10 / 9 (+1)

DL - 9 / 9

LB - 6 / 7 (-1)

CB - 5 / 5

S - 5 / 5

ST - 3 / 3

 

Areas where we weren't average

WR - during the year we carried 5 to start and 6 some weeks. I'd bet we carry 6 this year to start given Cain is coming back from injury and we drafted PC.

TE - doubt we carry 4 this year if Doyle is healthy. 

OL - we carried +1 last year because we drafted 2 guys who were in the mix quickly. may not carry 10 this year.

LB - We drafted a few, so I can see us going back to 7.

 

In short, it's all fluid and year to year based on the things I listed (and more).

See this is where I think OL/TE is more important than RB/WR because injury at those positions puts Luck in jeopardy and affects all the other positions MORE than being short on RB or WR which Luck and his talent with great protection and TE safety valves/added protection can make up for more easily than if Luck is getting crushed due to 3 OL injuries (which happens to teams all the time) or like we found last year when we were down mostly to Ebron at points due to injuries.   Would you rather see it at WR or RB? 

[krunk]

25 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

agree to disagree. Williams lacks speed (he's around 4.6). 

everything i've ever read on him describes him as a short yardage guy.

As if Wikins is fast. He doesnt play fast even if hes got a decent time.  Spencer Ware is probably the slowest of the bunch at 4.7ish. In Williams case 4.5 is a decent time for a 220lb back. Williams is good at goaline but he certainly isnt limited to that. He can carry on all 3 downs.

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, krunk said:

No

so you don't agree to disagree lol. 

would you like articles/reviews?

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

See this is where I think OL/TE is more important than RB/WR because injury at those positions puts Luck in jeopardy and affects all the other positions MORE than being short on RB or WR which Luck and his talent with great protection and TE safety valves/added protection can make up for more easily than if Luck is getting crushed due to 3 OL injuries (which happens to teams all the time) or like we found last year when we were down mostly to Ebron at points due to injuries.   Would you rather see it at WR or RB? 

IMO, we carried more OL last year because we were inserting 2 brand new early round picks. if everyone is healthy, we don't need to do that this year. starting positions are likely set, and it's just a matter of back ups battling it out. 

 

TE had injury concerns. Only way I see us carrying 4 is if there are still injury concerns, or were assuming we're letting Doyle go after the season, and trying to get a good look at the other TEs.

 

Keep in mind that the OLs we have are versatile. Braden could literally play 4 out of the 5 spots. Q too. A lot of NFL guards have played T or C in their career. You just don't need a 1 for 1 replacement all the time. You need 2 good versatile back ups, preferably one at T, and one at G, and one of those that can play C.

 

As for TE, we only ran 2 TE slots around a quarter of the time, while we ran 3 WR sets more than 50% of the time. RBs block as much as TEs do, actually probably more in our O. 

 

To answer you're Q, I'd rather Ebron go down than Mack. I'd rather Mack go down than TY. 

[EastStreet]

35 minutes ago, krunk said:

As if Wikins is fast. He doesnt play fast even if hes got a decent time.  Spencer Ware is probably the slowest of the bunch at 4.7ish. In Williams case 4.5 is a decent time for a 220lb back. Williams is good at goaline but he certainly isnt limited to that. He can carry on all 3 downs.

Wilkins pro day 40 - 4.5

Williams pro day 40 - 4.59

 

NFL Stats

Wilkins ypc - 5.6

Williams ypc - 3.1

 

Wilkins was RB1 and an every down back for Ole Miss. Had 1000+ yards and 6.5 ypc vs the toughest division in college football. Williams, also in the SEC West had 1100+ yards, but only 5.6 ypc, and had arguably one of the best OLs in CFB during his last two years in college.

 

Williams is a good back, and like I said, I like him. But he was over hyped as an every down back due to the OL he was running behind. His NFL production supports that. And, there's a reason why he's moved around to 4 teams in 3 years. I'd love for him to find a spot, but I don't see it over Wilkins and Ware.

 

Since you doubt Wilkins credentials, below is NFL.com's review.

 

Quote

 

Wilkins - NFL.com's Overview

Finesse runner with good size and great agility with the lateral agility to elude tacklers in the open field and the speed to make them feel it. Wilkins lacks the aggressive running demeanor to take it to tacklers, but he does have moments of effectiveness along the interior thanks to his footwork and vision. Wilkins 12 carries against Alabama could be hard for teams to ignore as they look to project his NFL potential. He should find work as a solid backup with a shot at finding starters carries at some point.

Strengths

Checks the height, weight, and speed boxes

Hips swivel freely and is very agile

Able to access any side door he needs to for quick escapes

Plays with slasher qualities

Saw over 10 percent of his runs in 2017 go for 15-plus yards

Has sudden, one-cut ability with the juice to launch himself through line of scrimmage and into the open field

Feet are light and nimble

Runs with knee bend and good pad level

Excellent footwork in tight quarters

Has balance and vision to navigate fluid run lanes

Glides behind lead blockers allowing them to do their work

Wiggle makes him dangerous in space

Not much tread off his tires as a runner

Averaged 7.1 yards per carry against SEC competition including 101 against Alabama

 

 

 

 

[stitches]

4 hours ago, krunk said:

Im not writing Jonathan Williams off like that. Wait till the pads get on. Hes a pretty good back..

Yep... we kept him on the 53 man roster as a 4th back for almost the full year without him taking a single snap. They like him long-term. 

[Dark Superman]

People who say signing an RB is stupid because we already have three good backs clearly don't get it.

[JPFolks]

4 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

IMO, we carried more OL last year because we were inserting 2 brand new early round picks. if everyone is healthy, we don't need to do that this year. starting positions are likely set, and it's just a matter of back ups battling it out. 

 

TE had injury concerns. Only way I see us carrying 4 is if there are still injury concerns, or were assuming we're letting Doyle go after the season, and trying to get a good look at the other TEs.

 

Keep in mind that the OLs we have are versatile. Braden could literally play 4 out of the 5 spots. Q too. A lot of NFL guards have played T or C in their career. You just don't need a 1 for 1 replacement all the time. You need 2 good versatile back ups, preferably one at T, and one at G, and one of those that can play C.

 

As for TE, we only ran 2 TE slots around a quarter of the time, while we ran 3 WR sets more than 50% of the time. RBs block as much as TEs do, actually probably more in our O. 

 

To answer you're Q, I'd rather Ebron go down than Mack. I'd rather Mack go down than TY. 

Yeah, I just can't get on board with 7 OL.  I don't care how good the starters are or how flexible they can play.  Injuries tend to happen in spurts.  We have to play out the final 10 weeks of the season with no bye week and then right into the playoffs and with our schedule (compared to NE) a #1 seed seems unlikely and even a bye will be very tough.  I can see the AFC South winner at 9-11 wins easily because we may be eating ourselves all season.   Luck made the playoffs with a terrible line, sure, but he also did it every season with essentially a developing Hilton and an aging Reggie or less.  I think if we'd had Doyle all season, that alone would have won us 1-2 more games.  Having him to throw to at the end of the first Houston game I think he finds a way to make that catch and get a first down.  Ebron had a great year, but he's not a blocker and he's not the guy you want on the route to get a game saving/winning first down.  We already have significantly more talent at WR than Luck has EVER had.  We'd have to lose 4 of them just to take us down to the level he usually has had to play with and that type of carnage would be an outlier.  But we've seen losing our OL and TEs with enough frequency that it is devastating.   Ware is our insurance if Mack goes down (which sadly he is prone to).  If we have the four you expect we could lose Mack and get by, in my opinion, just about as well as with him (as long as the other three regress instead of progress this year).  

 

It's an interesting debate though.  Thanks for engaging.   Anyone else have thoughts? Of those 4 groups, which 2 would you like to see the extra body designated in?  

[LockeDown]

5 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Wilkins pro day 40 - 4.5

Williams pro day 40 - 4.59

 

NFL Stats

Wilkins ypc - 5.6

Williams ypc - 3.1

 

Wilkins was RB1 and an every down back for Ole Miss. Had 1000+ yards and 6.5 ypc vs the toughest division in college football. Williams, also in the SEC West had 1100+ yards, but only 5.6 ypc, and had arguably one of the best OLs in CFB during his last two years in college.

 

Williams is a good back, and like I said, I like him. But he was over hyped as an every down back due to the OL he was running behind. His NFL production supports that. And, there's a reason why he's moved around to 4 teams in 3 years. I'd love for him to find a spot, but I don't see it over Wilkins and Ware.

 

Since you doubt Wilkins credentials, below is NFL.com's review.

 

 

 

 

Wilkins has a lot of room to improve imo. 

[DerekDiggler]

On 4/30/2019 at 5:38 PM, Coltsman1788 said:

 

Loving the physicality that he runs with.  Looking forward to seeing this guy  running behind Big Q and our Oline.  

The cut he made against  Buffalo at 2:05 is sick!

 

love this addition.    And he has to be like a kid at Christmas thinking about what our oline is going to do for him. 

 

Love this a is a lot more than Ajai 

[Coltsman1788]

7 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

The cut he made against  Buffalo at 2:05 is sick!

 

love this addition.    And he has to be like a kid at Christmas thinking about what our oline is going to do for him. 

 

Love this a is a lot more than Ajai 

I’d have to agree given Ajayi’s injury history.  I like Ajayi as a player when healthy but I was totally sleeping on Spence Ware.  He also brings what I felt was needed to our running back group. Plus he isn’t as big of an injury risk as Ajayi.  I think Ballard did well here.  

[chad72]

8 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

The cut he made against  Buffalo at 2:05 is sick!

 

love this addition.    And he has to be like a kid at Christmas thinking about what our oline is going to do for him. 

 

Love this a is a lot more than Ajai 

 

You have to understand that there is a reason why a) Spencer Ware was available (his torn ACL/PCL that he never truly recovered from, I felt, which led to Kareem Hunt get the job at the beginning of the 2017 season) and b) there were more injuries as he was eased in during 2018 (shoulder and hamstring injuries in 2018 season). That was the reason we were able to sign him for little guaranteed money. 

 

We are not getting the Spencer Ware from 2016, that is 100% certain. He is just insurance as a between the tackles RB, nothing more, he is not going to have the same burst as Mack. If we expect that, we will be disappointed. I'd rather him not see the field that much, which would mean Mack is healthy for the most part, to be honest. 

[EastStreet]

11 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Yeah, I just can't get on board with 7 OL.  I don't care how good the starters are or how flexible they can play.  Injuries tend to happen in spurts.  We have to play out the final 10 weeks of the season with no bye week and then right into the playoffs and with our schedule (compared to NE) a #1 seed seems unlikely and even a bye will be very tough.  I can see the AFC South winner at 9-11 wins easily because we may be eating ourselves all season.   Luck made the playoffs with a terrible line, sure, but he also did it every season with essentially a developing Hilton and an aging Reggie or less.  I think if we'd had Doyle all season, that alone would have won us 1-2 more games.  Having him to throw to at the end of the first Houston game I think he finds a way to make that catch and get a first down.  Ebron had a great year, but he's not a blocker and he's not the guy you want on the route to get a game saving/winning first down.  We already have significantly more talent at WR than Luck has EVER had.  We'd have to lose 4 of them just to take us down to the level he usually has had to play with and that type of carnage would be an outlier.  But we've seen losing our OL and TEs with enough frequency that it is devastating.   Ware is our insurance if Mack goes down (which sadly he is prone to).  If we have the four you expect we could lose Mack and get by, in my opinion, just about as well as with him (as long as the other three regress instead of progress this year).  

 

It's an interesting debate though.  Thanks for engaging.   Anyone else have thoughts? Of those 4 groups, which 2 would you like to see the extra body designated in?  

Not saying we only keep 7, I'm saying after the starting 5, it's key to have at least a couple guys that can flex. Personally I'd have the starting 5, one T that can flex, one G that can flex, and two more who are either developmental (latest draft picks) who may also flex as well or two guys that are good but can't flex. So I'm good with the 9 standard. Let's not forget we have 10 slots on the practice squad that can be called up at anytime. It fluctuates throughout the year, but to start the year in 2018, we had at least one OL on it. and one TE too. 

 

as far as Ebron is concerned, I agree he's not the best blocker, but he did ok. i disagree about him not being a drive extenders. the guy was clutch enough in the RZ. the guy had the 2nd most TDs of any receiving position, and 5th in total TDs from scrimmage. 

 

I'm optimistic about our WR future. but to say we have more talent than ever, is a stretch. I'd say we have more potential than ever, and it should pan out hopefully. on Mack, I don't see Ware as his backup. i see him as a power or short yardage back. i see wilkins as his backup.

 

 

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Wilkins has a lot of room to improve imo. 

he absolutely does. he dances too much. 

but, he's a pretty decent RB2. 

keep in mind, he was a rookie last year too. 

[BigQungus]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

You have to understand that there is a reason why a) Spencer Ware was available (his torn ACL/PCL that he never truly recovered from, I felt, which led to Kareem Hunt get the job at the beginning of the 2017 season) and b) there were more injuries as he was eased in during 2018 (shoulder and hamstring injuries in 2018 season). That was the reason we were able to sign him for little guaranteed money. 

 

We are not getting the Spencer Ware from 2016, that is 100% certain. He is just insurance as a between the tackles RB, nothing more, he is not going to have the same burst as Mack. If we expect that, we will be disappointed. I'd rather him not see the field that much, which would mean Mack is healthy for the most part, to be honest. 

 

I agree with you for the most part, but he looked really good last year when he wasn't injured

[JPFolks]

2 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Not saying we only keep 7, I'm saying after the starting 5, it's key to have at least a couple guys that can flex. Personally I'd have the starting 5, one T that can flex, one G that can flex, and two more who are either developmental (latest draft picks) who may also flex as well or two guys that are good but can't flex. So I'm good with the 9 standard. Let's not forget we have 10 slots on the practice squad that can be called up at anytime. It fluctuates throughout the year, but to start the year in 2018, we had at least one OL on it. and one TE too. 

 

as far as Ebron is concerned, I agree he's not the best blocker, but he did ok. i disagree about him not being a drive extenders. the guy was clutch enough in the RZ. the guy had the 2nd most TDs of any receiving position, and 5th in total TDs from scrimmage. 

 

I'm optimistic about our WR future. but to say we have more talent than ever, is a stretch. I'd say we have more potential than ever, and it should pan out hopefully. on Mack, I don't see Ware as his backup. i see him as a power or short yardage back. i see wilkins as his backup.

 

 

You don't think we currently have more WR talent than at any other time in Luck's career? When did he have more than a developing Hilton and an aging Reggie? That was about as good as it ever was until this year.   Heck, when he had an injured hobbled Hilton and Inman late in the season felt like luxury compared to what he usually has had.  

[NewEra]

At times I thought Wilkins was one of our better runners. Reminded me of Bradshaw In being able to grind out positive yards. One cut and go guy. 

[DerekDiggler]

4 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

You have to understand that there is a reason why a) Spencer Ware was available (his torn ACL/PCL that he never truly recovered from, I felt, which led to Kareem Hunt get the job at the beginning of the 2017 season) and b) there were more injuries as he was eased in during 2018 (shoulder and hamstring injuries in 2018 season). That was the reason we were able to sign him for little guaranteed money. 

 

We are not getting the Spencer Ware from 2016, that is 100% certain. He is just insurance as a between the tackles RB, nothing more, he is not going to have the same burst as Mack. If we expect that, we will be disappointed. I'd rather him not see the field that much, which would mean Mack is healthy for the most part, to be honest. 

Ballard must like him because he didn’t wait to sign him.   

[DerekDiggler]

3 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

he absolutely does. he dances too much. 

but, he's a pretty decent RB2. 

keep in mind, he was a rookie last year too. 

Same could have been said about Mack his rookie yr 

[EastStreet]

42 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

You don't think we currently have more WR talent than at any other time in Luck's career? When did he have more than a developing Hilton and an aging Reggie? That was about as good as it ever was until this year.   Heck, when he had an injured hobbled Hilton and Inman late in the season felt like luxury compared to what he usually has had.  

2012 was plenty good. WR1 Reggie with 1350+, WR2 TY with 850+, and Avery with 750+. That's a good threesome of production. Reggie was hurt (ACL) in 2013, but still manged 500+ in less than half the season, and TY had his first 1000 yard season. TY and Wayne did good again in 2014, and add 400+ from 2 other WRs each. Luck only played 7 games in 2015, but we had 3 decent guys, one 1000+, one 700+, and one 500+. 2016 was when the wheels came off with WR imo, and IIRC, the OL took a major step back too that year.

 

To compare, last year we only one WR over 500 yards... Just one.

 

This year, we have on the roster now

 

Proven guys

-1 proven tier 1 veteran Colt's WR (TY)

-1 tier 2, but improving veteran Colt's WR (Rogers)

 

High Potential guys, but definitely not a sure thing

-1 TE-lite WR trying to rebound his career (Funchess) on a prove it contract who is limited at X

-1 2nd year rookie (Cain) with zero NFL production combing back from major surgery

-1 Raw but very fast guy (Campbell) rookie who was a gadget guy running very limited routes

 

It's a crap shoot

-Pacal who was a UDFA from 2 years ago that we claimed off waivers. 250ish last year

-Fountain - picked a round before Cain, he's a major project, on the practice squad most 2018

-Veasy - UDFA last year that we signed a futures contract with

-Johnson - UDFA three years ago who we traded for during 2018 season.

-Ishmael - UDFA last year, practice squad most of the year

-Hogan - UDFA from 2 years ago, practice squad and IR

-Hart - UDFA this year. Decent prospect

-Dulin - UDFA this year. Might get early work as return guy. I like his chances.

 

 

We know what we have with TY and Rogers.

 

Cain is an injury question until he is not. Campbell has elite potential, but needs a lot of work. 

Funchess will likely see time at X and Slot. He will get more work if Cain is slow to come back. Campbell could even get tried out at X if Cain is slow to come back. If Cain and Campbell are quick getting time, that's likely bad for Funchess. The rest are guys we really can't assume anything about.

 

There's a lot to be excited about in terms of potential, but not close to crowning them yet. In short, if we find 3 that can top 2012's numbers, they yes.

33 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

Same could have been said about Mack his rookie yr 

absolutely. but Mack took a huge step forward. let's hope Wilkins does too.

[aaron11]

i hope mack becomes a better receiver, that could be a big boost to the offense if he would just catch the damn ball

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

i hope mack becomes a better receiver, that could be a big boost to the offense if he would just catch the damn ball

It's not Mack's job to catch the damn ball. He runs the damn ball.

Wilkins is who catches the damn ball.

[EastStreet]

Hines is actually the RB or APB that catches the ball, but I agree Mack needs to run the damn ball. Mack does need to improve a bunch on his catch rate though.

[chad72]

2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

i hope mack becomes a better receiver, that could be a big boost to the offense if he would just catch the damn ball

 

Memorable moments in his catching game seem to be Jets game opening play pick six and J J Watt tip on an intended pass to Mack in the passing game, almost making it seem like bad things happen if you go to Mack in the passing game. J/k

 

Of course, every RB ran and caught vs the Bills last year.

[JPFolks]

4 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

2012 was plenty good. WR1 Reggie with 1350+, WR2 TY with 850+, and Avery with 750+. That's a good threesome of production. Reggie was hurt (ACL) in 2013, but still manged 500+ in less than half the season, and TY had his first 1000 yard season. TY and Wayne did good again in 2014, and add 400+ from 2 other WRs each. Luck only played 7 games in 2015, but we had 3 decent guys, one 1000+, one 700+, and one 500+. 2016 was when the wheels came off with WR imo, and IIRC, the OL took a major step back too that year.

 

To compare, last year we only one WR over 500 yards... Just one.

 

This year, we have on the roster now

 

Proven guys

-1 proven tier 1 veteran Colt's WR (TY)

-1 tier 2, but improving veteran Colt's WR (Rogers)

 

High Potential guys, but definitely not a sure thing

-1 TE-lite WR trying to rebound his career (Funchess) on a prove it contract who is limited at X

-1 2nd year rookie (Cain) with zero NFL production combing back from major surgery

-1 Raw but very fast guy (Campbell) rookie who was a gadget guy running very limited routes

 

It's a crap shoot

-Pacal who was a UDFA from 2 years ago that we claimed off waivers. 250ish last year

-Fountain - picked a round before Cain, he's a major project, on the practice squad most 2018

-Veasy - UDFA last year that we signed a futures contract with

-Johnson - UDFA three years ago who we traded for during 2018 season.

-Ishmael - UDFA last year, practice squad most of the year

-Hogan - UDFA from 2 years ago, practice squad and IR

-Hart - UDFA this year. Decent prospect

-Dulin - UDFA this year. Might get early work as return guy. I like his chances.

 

 

We know what we have with TY and Rogers.

 

Cain is an injury question until he is not. Campbell has elite potential, but needs a lot of work. 

Funchess will likely see time at X and Slot. He will get more work if Cain is slow to come back. Campbell could even get tried out at X if Cain is slow to come back. If Cain and Campbell are quick getting time, that's likely bad for Funchess. The rest are guys we really can't assume anything about.

 

There's a lot to be excited about in terms of potential, but not close to crowning them yet. In short, if we find 3 that can top 2012's numbers, they yes.

absolutely. but Mack took a huge step forward. let's hope Wilkins does too.

Care to wager a beverage of your choice that the receiving corp this year will exceed the production with Luck beyond any previous year? I think he could challenge the TD record if he and at least 3 of the top 5 WRs and at least one of the TEs stay healthy.  He played last year with a hobbled receiver and guys most of us hope aren't good enough to make the roster this year (though I suspect Rogers is going to unfortunately meaning failure by a lot of guys).  I get and respect  your legit stats as you lay them out, but we haven't gone into any season with remotely this much talent or depth at WR.  Funchess will be at least the equal to Hilton Year 1 in terms of yards this year and even Rogers this coming year is better than Avery was back then in my opinion and I think it is unlikely he fills that role, over one of the young guys.  Heck we did see Pascal out there, give me him, Funchess, Hilton and Rogers and that is the best Corp in Lucks career.  Imagine if Cain, Campbell or the others hit big.  ALL the other players won't wash out.  They're going to rock and roll this year.  And if the two TE's stay healthy all season, Luck could set some serious records.  

 

Anyway, thanks for the debate.  No creampuffs were harmed in this live fire event.  

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Care to wager a beverage of your choice that the receiving corp this year will exceed the production with Luck beyond any previous year? I think he could challenge the TD record if he and at least 3 of the top 5 WRs and at least one of the TEs stay healthy.  He played last year with a hobbled receiver and guys most of us hope aren't good enough to make the roster this year (though I suspect Rogers is going to unfortunately meaning failure by a lot of guys).  I get and respect  your legit stats as you lay them out, but we haven't gone into any season with remotely this much talent or depth at WR.  Funchess will be at least the equal to Hilton Year 1 in terms of yards this year and even Rogers this coming year is better than Avery was back then in my opinion and I think it is unlikely he fills that role, over one of the young guys.  Heck we did see Pascal out there, give me him, Funchess, Hilton and Rogers and that is the best Corp in Lucks career.  Imagine if Cain, Campbell or the others hit big.  ALL the other players won't wash out.  They're going to rock and roll this year.  And if the two TE's stay healthy all season, Luck could set some serious records.  

 

Anyway, thanks for the debate.  No creampuffs were harmed in this live fire event.  

Hey JP, I'm happy to buy you a beverage of your choice regardless whenever I come back to Indy (assuming you're in Indy). I'm being cautious, but I think we easily have the most potential talent now. There's just a whole lot to work out in the next 4 months. 

 

Keep in mind last year that Luck had more yards than he did in 2012. It's the fact that he had one WR, and then played musical chairs with all the others. I want a legit #2 on the outside, and if we have that, I think we can blow the doors off this year. 

 

I will bet you a bottle of Crown or Scotch though that Funchess is nowhere near TY in yards (unless TY has injury issues). TY will likely have even more yards this year since teams won't be able to double him. Funchess won't hit 1000. If I win, I'll drink it with you :-). 

[JPFolks]

1 hour ago, Irish YJ said:

Hey JP, I'm happy to buy you a beverage of your choice regardless whenever I come back to Indy (assuming you're in Indy). I'm being cautious, but I think we easily have the most potential talent now. There's just a whole lot to work out in the next 4 months. 

 

Keep in mind last year that Luck had more yards than he did in 2012. It's the fact that he had one WR, and then played musical chairs with all the others. I want a legit #2 on the outside, and if we have that, I think we can blow the doors off this year. 

 

I will bet you a bottle of Crown or Scotch though that Funchess is nowhere near TY in yards (unless TY has injury issues). TY will likely have even more yards this year since teams won't be able to double him. Funchess won't hit 1000. If I win, I'll drink it with you :-). 

My claim was that Funchess would match what TY did in year 1, what was it, like 850 yards? I think that sounds about right.  He was every bit an 800+ yard receiver for Carolina wasn't he? 

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

My claim was that Funchess would match what TY did in year 1, what was it, like 850 yards? I think that sounds about right.  He was every bit an 800+ yard receiver for Carolina wasn't he? 

DF was drafted to take over #1 WR, and X IIRC. He started slow with a good first year 400ish, regressed a little year two 300ish, had a good year three 800ish, then went backwards with 500ish last year when Carolina drafted DJ Moore who too WR1 his first year. 

 

TY had 850ish his first year. I'll be really happy if DF gets 700, but I think he'll be in the 500-700 range given the increased comp he'll have with TY, Cain coming back, and now Parris. 

[JPFolks]

@Irish YJ

 

Wow, you may be right, but it would be a total bust in my opinion if he only gets 500 yards.  We had low paid UDFAs good enough to do that.  10 million for 500 yards? That would be one of the biggest wastes of money I can imagine if that happens.  Maybe if he had all of Ebron's TDs then it would balance. Otherwise, yikes.  That would be $20K dollars per yard.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Funchess and Ebron will probably have close to the same number. I think Ebron  numbers will go down with Funchess. We are so loaded I don’t think anyone will have career years. I think 500 yards and 7 TD for both Ebron and  funchess will be really good.

[Caffrey]

Since our previous biggest back is Wilkins at 216 lbs, and we have a scatback in Ny. Hines, I felt we could use another quality RB of the heavier frame and Ware at 5-10 229 lbs fits the bill, compact and stout.  Although he had the 2017 injury, he had a decent 2018 season on a limited basis stat wise. Carrying 51 attempts, 246 yards, a solid 4.8 avg per carry.  Also caught 20 passes, for 224 yards, 11.2 avg, excellent for a RB.

 

I was curious to see what kind of damage he did against us in the playoffs and he had no carries.  He must have been hurt, I think, but not the same injury as 2017 again I hope/think, a temp injury.  

 

If we keep Ware.  Let Williams go.  What about Penny Hart or Lexington Thomas, who I would like to see one of them kept.  It would mean we keep Hart or Thomas for our practice squad or Jordan Wilkins goes to the practice sqaud.  Again I like Wilkins, he showed his METL hanging tough against the big boys Alabama, he had our best avg per carry, that 50 yard run he had helped.  His 2 fumbles hurt his stock, otherwise we would say he had an excellent rookie year instead of a good year. 

[krunk]

22 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

Same could have been said about Mack his rookie yr 

Yeah but you could see the potential Mack had. Wilkins is just okay. Even as a rookie when Mack was out there you knew our running game was better. Venturi feels the same way about Wilkins as me. On one of his recent podcast he said he was just a guy. I think he could get better from year 1 to year 2 but i dont know how much that "better" will be. Theres a reason why the Colts put so much time into looking for an RB2 predraft. Odd thing to do when you have a young back with good size and decent timed speed that you just drafted in 2018.

[krunk]

If Mack goes down this year im still not certain Wilkins can carry the load.

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Funchess and Ebron will probably have close to the same number. I think Ebron  numbers will go down with Funchess. We are so loaded I don’t think anyone will have career years. I think 500 yards and 7 TD for both Ebron and  funchess will be really good.

 

The bolded is one of a few reasons I didn't like the signing. I assumed we'd draft a WR early, and that mixed with Cain returning, I felt like it was more of an insurance pick up, and he'd only take production away from Ebron if those two things happened. Never thought of him as an answer to our lack of a well rounded X. 

 

I am however happy we have him now. Just not happy with the value (doesn't matter we have the $). Would love to see him get a lot of snaps at slot. 

 

7 hours ago, JPFolks said:

@Irish YJ

 

Wow, you may be right, but it would be a total bust in my opinion if he only gets 500 yards.  We had low paid UDFAs good enough to do that.  10 million for 500 yards? That would be one of the biggest wastes of money I can imagine if that happens.  Maybe if he had all of Ebron's TDs then it would balance. Otherwise, yikes.  That would be $20K dollars per yard.  

If TY gets 1000+, and Cain, DF, Campbell, and Ebron all get over 500 I'd be OK with that. I just really want a well rounded guy to step up and get solid WR2 numbers (800+). I think both Cain and Campbell have that type of potential. Regardless, I'm just stoked that having outside speed will keep doubles off TY. That was my biggest underlying want.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

 

The bolded is one of a few reasons I didn't like the signing. I assumed we'd draft a WR early, and that mixed with Cain returning, I felt like it was more of an insurance pick up, and he'd only take production away from Ebron if those two things happened. Never thought of him as an answer to our lack of a well rounded X. 

 

I am however happy we have him now. Just not happy with the value (doesn't matter we have the $). Would love to see him get a lot of snaps at slot. 

 

If TY gets 1000+, and Cain, DF, Campbell, and Ebron all get over 500 I'd be OK with that. I just really want a well rounded guy to step up and get solid WR2 numbers (800+). I think both Cain and Campbell have that type of potential. Regardless, I'm just stoked that having outside speed will keep doubles off TY. That was my biggest underlying want.

We will see how the season goes with Funchess and Ebron. They look like the same player. I don’t see us duplicating a player after this year. I hope DF can at least have a good year to get a good contract in 2020. If Cain comes back we are going to have a issue with not enough balls to go around. Maybe Reich will surprise with the schemes he uses for Funchess and Ebron. 

The good news is Cain and Campbell being on rookie deals. It could allow us to carry all of them for a couple of years.

 

i don’t think we need a clear number two. Luck has always distributed the ball to a lot of receivers.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Having both funchess and EE in the red zone is going to be lethal though.

[CurBeatElite]

On 4/30/2019 at 8:12 AM, Colts1324 said:

Does this mean Wilkins and Williams will be cut/traded? I would expect us to only carry 3 RB's week 1. 

 

I think we'll carry 3-4.  Mack and Hines locks (as Hines can almost double as a slot WR), and Wilkins plus possibly Ware or Williams (Ware and Williams major issues have been staying healthy).

 

On 4/30/2019 at 8:39 AM, csmopar said:

A little bit out of the blue but not bad. Wonder what terms were/are

 

When it comes to adding players for depth or leadership, it seems like Ballard likes to stick with guys he or someone high on his staff have familiarity with ... Ware is one of Ballard's old Chiefs and is coming into compete as a back-up with veteran experience.

 

On 4/30/2019 at 11:07 AM, tweezy32 said:

I feel like I'm the minority here but I believe Wilkins is the better running back then Hines honestly and hope he gets the ball more this year.  I think he was really good last year while splitting the carries between two other backs and still produced good numbers. 

 

Hines has better receiving ability and Reich likes that in his system (see how he used Sproles as OC of Philly).  Wilkins' major issue last year was the way he was holding the ball.... I think it's a fixable/coachable problem -- but look at his game logs here: http://www.nfl.com/player/jordanwilkins/2560187/gamelogs

 

He lost a fumble in week 5 and then he didn't touch the ball in week 6.  They seemed to be working him back into the lineup until he lost another fumble in week 12, then he got put in the dog house with 1 touch week 13, 0 touches week 14, 1 touch week 15, 0 touches week 16 and 4 touches in week 17.

 

On 4/30/2019 at 1:19 PM, superrep1967 said:

I don’t know why they don’t like Wilkens more than they do

 

See above response -- he was getting quite a bit of reps until he coughed the ball up in week 5.  He needs to secure the ball better, and I think he's gotta run a bit harder (that was a major knock on him coming out of college was that even though he's got very good size for an RB, he plays like a little guy).

 

On 5/2/2019 at 6:46 PM, JPFolks said:

I can't recall, do we always keep 4 RB's or is it sometimes only 3? If it comes down to an extra lineman, an extra WR, an extra TE or an extra RB, which would (or anyone else) choose? It seems like one or more of these areas have to cut it deeper than the others.  I think I would lean towards an extra TE and an extra OL. Those are Andrew Luck security blankets.  In a catastrophic injury scenario, I'd rather he have time and protection to throw to lessor WR's or hand off to lessor RB's (and often there are veterans you can bring in ala Inman) over guys who need time to gel with blocking schemes/personnel and protection packages that a back up level guy is better filling than a guy off the streets. 

 

What are your (or anyone's) thoughts on that? 

 

We have kept 4 both years Ballard has been here.... I expect we'll keep 4 again, in part because Hines can sort of double as a WR, and in part because Mack needs to show he can play a full 16 game season.

 

On 5/2/2019 at 9:41 PM, Irish YJ said:

IMO, we carried more OL last year because we were inserting 2 brand new early round picks. if everyone is healthy, we don't need to do that this year. starting positions are likely set, and it's just a matter of back ups battling it out. 

 

TE had injury concerns. Only way I see us carrying 4 is if there are still injury concerns, or were assuming we're letting Doyle go after the season, and trying to get a good look at the other TEs.

 

Keep in mind that the OLs we have are versatile. Braden could literally play 4 out of the 5 spots. Q too. A lot of NFL guards have played T or C in their career. You just don't need a 1 for 1 replacement all the time. You need 2 good versatile back ups, preferably one at T, and one at G, and one of those that can play C.

 

As for TE, we only ran 2 TE slots around a quarter of the time, while we ran 3 WR sets more than 50% of the time. RBs block as much as TEs do, actually probably more in our O. 

 

To answer you're Q, I'd rather Ebron go down than Mack. I'd rather Mack go down than TY. 

 

I think we also carried more OL last year because Castonzo was banged up the first 5 weeks of the season and then we had some health/injury issues with Kelly on and off later in the season.  With Q we've got a guy that can play G/C and probably T... with Smith, he can play all 5 positions on the line, and so can Haeg.... it sounds like this Jarvis Patterson and Glowinski can play all interior positions -- so I tend to think if it came down to it, if we're healthy on the OL, we'd see us carrying 9 and increasing WR/LB/DB/DL by a a digit compared to last year as those are more rotational positions and we seem pretty deep at all of them.

 

As far as TE goes, I think Reich really likes to run 2 TE's in his offense.  Doyle missed 10+ games last year and our back-up TE's after him were Mo Alie-Cox who is very raw (though played fairly well considering he played basketball in college), Eric Swoope (who was an OK WR, but couldn't block) and some other no-names.  When Doyle was healthy, we seemed to run a lot more 2 TE sets... I think Reich was adapting to his personnel when Doyle was out (do we go with TY, Inman, Grant on the field along with 1 TE or do we go with TY/Inman on the field with Ebron and Ross Travis?? kind of a rock and a hard place there... if Doyle comes back healthy, I expect we'll be much more balanced next year unless of course Funchess/Campbell/Cain are all playing like rock-stars).

 

 

[EastStreet]

Just now, CurBeatElite said:

I think we also carried more OL last year because Castonzo was banged up the first 5 weeks of the season and then we had some health/injury issues with Kelly on and off later in the season.  With Q we've got a guy that can play G/C and probably T... with Smith, he can play all 5 positions on the line, and so can Haeg.... it sounds like this Jarvis Patterson and Glowinski can play all interior positions -- so I tend to think if it came down to it, if we're healthy on the OL, we'd see us carrying 9 and increasing WR/LB/DB/DL by a a digit compared to last year as those are more rotational positions and we seem pretty deep at all of them.

 

As far as TE goes, I think Reich really likes to run 2 TE's in his offense.  Doyle missed 10+ games last year and our back-up TE's after him were Mo Alie-Cox who is very raw (though played fairly well considering he played basketball in college), Eric Swoope (who was an OK WR, but couldn't block) and some other no-names.  When Doyle was healthy, we seemed to run a lot more 2 TE sets... I think Reich was adapting to his personnel when Doyle was out (do we go with TY, Inman, Grant on the field along with 1 TE or do we go with TY/Inman on the field with Ebron and Ross Travis?? kind of a rock and a hard place there... if Doyle comes back healthy, I expect we'll be much more balanced next year unless of course Funchess/Campbell/Cain are all playing like rock-stars).

Yup, injury always plays huge part in the "53", among other things. I'm fine with carry more OL, but I think we've got guys this year we know about now. If LT health is still a concern, then I'm good carrying more again.

 

On TE usage, Reich's 2TE sets have fluctuated by team. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more than the ~28% of 2TE sets from last year, but I also know we have a lot more potential at WR (TY, Funch, Campbell, Cain) this year. We also play 7 of the 11 top passing Os this year, so we may need to play less possession ball, and more wide open ball. If I were going to guess, we'll see possession ball vs division foes, and more wide open vs the others.

 

Keep in mind Funch is a TE-lite, so I could see 2TE sets decrease just because of that. I also don't think Doyle will be back in 2020, so would not be surprised if other TEs got more reps in games where we're ahead by a few scores.