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Hines Draft Tidbit

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Les Snead, Rams GM, said they were going to take Hines last year but the Colts grabbed him just before their pick. He mentioned how the coach loves rbs you can split out and run routes....which is certainly Hines. He competes on catches.

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To be honest Campbell and Hines are kind of the same gadget players. As of now I still wish we would have gotten Butler instead but hopefully I will be eating some crow this time next year 

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Snead said it on NFL radio this morning. I think the Rams coach gets credited with being an offense guru so their saying they wanted Hines as well seems to say Hines is well thought of. I sure never questioned his effort last year....though he seemed  more successful as a receiver than a runner.

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1 hour ago, twfish said:

To be honest Campbell and Hines are kind of the same gadget players. As of now I still wish we would have gotten Butler instead but hopefully I will be eating some crow this time next year 

Campbell will eventually develop into a deep threat. He showed at the combine he has the ability.

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14 hours ago, twfish said:

To be honest Campbell and Hines are kind of the same gadget players. As of now I still wish we would have gotten Butler instead but hopefully I will be eating some crow this time next year 

Poppycock. I don't believe you.:)

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21 hours ago, ColtsAC said:

Snead said it on NFL radio this morning. I think the Rams coach gets credited with being an offense guru so their saying they wanted Hines as well seems to say Hines is well thought of. I sure never questioned his effort last year....though he seemed  more successful as a receiver than a runner.

 

 It would be nice Not to need Hines as a runner. And no way he should be used as much in our passing game. I could see him being used to facilitate a trade.

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8 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 It would be nice Not to need Hines as a runner. And no way he should be used as much in our passing game. I could see him being used to facilitate a trade.

That's what we want our opponents to think, that's why his RB experience is nice. Bring him in, defense expecting pass. Boom 10-15yd draw, with speed to take to house on any given play.

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Hines, imo, is much more limited in his abilities. He doesn't have near the ability out of the slot, and has no ability to go downfield. I think at most Hines ceiling is a 7-800 yard all-purpose compliment, which is great in itself, but the only reason he caught so many balls this last season was out of necessity. He's probably gonna have half of that this season, with the addition of Campbell (which essentially does everything he does, but better). 

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I would like to see them (Hines /Campbell) both on the field at the same time. Empty backfield with Hines, Campbell, TY, Doyle and Ebron. 

 

Good luck covering all of that at the same time 

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Hines and Campbell both run in the 4.3s. Hines played both slot and RB. Campbell played slot, but ran some. So yes, similar. 

 

Nice to have both. I expect Hines to get even more targets this year. Having Campbell, TY, and Hines on the field at the same time give you 3 x 4.3 guys although TY is probably low 4.4s now. Throw in Cain who if 4.4s, and that's 4 very fast guys, 2 of which are both run and catch options. 

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31 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Hines and Campbell both run in the 4.3s. Hines played both slot and RB. Campbell played slot, but ran some. So yes, similar. 

 

Nice to have both. I expect Hines to get even more targets this year. Having Campbell, TY, and Hines on the field at the same time give you 3 x 4.3 guys although TY is probably low 4.4s now. Throw in Cain who if 4.4s, and that's 4 very fast guys, 2 of which are both run and catch options. 

 

Not sure I agree. He caught a lot of balls last year, but didn’t do much with them. He doesn’t appear to be super elusive and doesn’t break many tackles. So even with his speed...he doesn’t appear to have much YAC ability. This was reflected in his yards/catch...which was also low his last year in college when he made the full-time switch to RB.

 

The Colts seemed to recognize that the short passing game was in need of help because they spent a 2nd round pick on a more dynamic player (and actual WR) in Campbell to improve that area. I just don’t see Hines getting many targets over him as a WR.

 

And then they signed a RB who is very good in the passing game at getting chunk pass plays.

 

I think this points to Hines’ usage being limited, rather than expanding...which I am fine with. He’s a gadget player...and the Colts have better weapons now.

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10 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

Not sure I agree. He caught a lot of balls last year, but didn’t do much with them. He doesn’t appear to be super elusive and doesn’t break many tackles. So even with his speed...he doesn’t appear to have much YAC ability.

I think your expectations on YAC may be a bit off. Hines ranked 46th among WRs in total YAC. He was second on the Colts only behind TY. And that's with limited targets/catches. He's ranked right there with Agholor in similar catches and YAC. He has more total YAC than Edelman who has 11 more receptions. Ebron had a few more catches than Hines, and had 100 less YAC yards than Hines.

 

Can Hines be better, of course, but to say he hasn't done much with the catches he had is pretty harsh given the comparable stats and he's a rookie. One thing to consider is the limited route tree he ran. Another big factor was how teams defended against us. TY was the only real threat down field. Every other WR could be defended without much attention. Teams doubled TY and zoned the middle to limit Ebron later in the year. That clogging of the middle impacted Hines as much as it did Ebron, if not more given Hine's stature.

 

Ds will not be able to do that this year. Things will be wider open and Hines should benefit as will TY and collectively all receiving positions. For a rookie though, Hines did plenty IMO with the balls he got. And keep in mind that mid season people were talking about him breaking NFL rookie records...

 

Quote

This was reflected in his yards/catch...which was also low his last year in college when he made the full-time switch to RB.

Not sure this means anything. Hines took over RB1 his junior year (his last year). He was no longer a slot or APB, he was the absolute RB1 in their system, so of course his receiving targets and averages were going to drop big time.
 

Quote

 

The Colts seemed to recognize that the short passing game was in need of help because they spent a 2nd round pick on a more dynamic player (and actual WR) in Campbell to improve that area. I just don’t see Hines getting many targets over him as a WR.


 

IMO, Hines was drafted to be a true APB, not a true slot, and not a true RB1. He's just another weapon. The Colts recognized a lot of things. Our entire WR group aside from TY was mediocre in all facets, short, medium, and long. This was made painfully clear in several games where teams doubled TY and we were pretty much shut down and had to rely on Ebron as a pressure valve.

 

In short, if Cain comes back healthy, and Parris come along well, everybody will be more open including Hines. I also wouldn't assume Parris is going to be used only or primarily in the short passing game. Funchess IMO is going to get a lot of short to intermediate targets. Parris should get a fair amount too, but I can't see him not getting intermediate and deep too. If Cain becomes a deep ball monster, than then maybe Parris becomes primarily the short guy, but even then I don't see us not using his 4.31 deeper.

 

Quote

And then they signed a RB who is very good in the passing game at getting chunk pass plays.

If you're talking about Ware, I don't agree. I think he signed on to be more of a power back used on short yardage situations, and late in games to wear teams down and keep Mack fresh. I don't see him being on the field in the scenarios where Hines was on the field last season. Ideally all 3 (Mack, Ware, Hines) have specific purposes

 

Quote

I think this points to Hines’ usage being limited, rather than expanding...which I am fine with. He’s a gadget player...and the Colts have better weapons now.

 

I agree the Colts have upgraded the O skill as a whole, but not sure I'd assume Hines will be limited just year. If Reich is true at his word (wants to be top 5), I expect Mack, Ware, and Hines to all get plenty of touches. That doesn't mean to me though that we're going to be a traditional smash mouth running team. I think we'll be top 5 being a well rounded rushing team. Mack as a typical RB1, Ware as power back, and Hines as a change of pace multi use weapon. Teams have to defend differently when Hines is on the field, and I don't think Reich will limit that.

 

Here's the YAC stats if you want to check out how he stacks. 

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2018&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=5&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=1

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2 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

I think your expectations on YAC may be a bit off. Hines ranked 46th among WRs in total YAC. He was second on the Colts only behind TY. And that's with limited targets/catches. He's ranked right there with Agholor in similar catches and YAC. He has more total YAC than Edelman who has 11 more receptions. Ebron had a few more catches than Hines, and had 100 less YAC yards than Hines.

 

Can Hines be better, of course, but to say he hasn't done much with the catches he had is pretty harsh given the comparable stats and he's a rookie. One thing to consider is the limited route tree he ran. Another big factor was how teams defended against us. TY was the only real threat down field. Every other WR could be defended without much attention. Teams doubled TY and zoned the middle to limit Ebron later in the year. That clogging of the middle impacted Hines as much as it did Ebron, if not more given Hine's stature.

 

Ds will not be able to do that this year. Things will be wider open and Hines should benefit as will TY and collectively all receiving positions. For a rookie though, Hines did plenty IMO with the balls he got. And keep in mind that mid season people were talking about him breaking NFL rookie records...

 

Not sure this means anything. Hines took over RB1 his junior year (his last year). He was no longer a slot or APB, he was the absolute RB1 in their system, so of course his receiving targets and averages were going to drop big time.
 

IMO, Hines was drafted to be a true APB, not a true slot, and not a true RB1. He's just another weapon. The Colts recognized a lot of things. Our entire WR group aside from TY was mediocre in all facets, short, medium, and long. This was made painfully clear in several games where teams doubled TY and we were pretty much shut down and had to rely on Ebron as a pressure valve.

 

In short, if Cain comes back healthy, and Parris come along well, everybody will be more open including Hines. I also wouldn't assume Parris is going to be used only or primarily in the short passing game. Funchess IMO is going to get a lot of short to intermediate targets. Parris should get a fair amount too, but I can't see him not getting intermediate and deep too. If Cain becomes a deep ball monster, than then maybe Parris becomes primarily the short guy, but even then I don't see us not using his 4.31 deeper.

 

If you're talking about Ware, I don't agree. I think he signed on to be more of a power back used on short yardage situations, and late in games to wear teams down and keep Mack fresh. I don't see him being on the field in the scenarios where Hines was on the field last season. Ideally all 3 (Mack, Ware, Hines) have specific purposes

 

 

I agree the Colts have upgraded the O skill as a whole, but not sure I'd assume Hines will be limited just year. If Reich is true at his word (wants to be top 5), I expect Mack, Ware, and Hines to all get plenty of touches. That doesn't mean to me though that we're going to be a traditional smash mouth running team. I think we'll be top 5 being a well rounded rushing team. Mack as a typical RB1, Ware as power back, and Hines as a change of pace multi use weapon. Teams have to defend differently when Hines is on the field, and I don't think Reich will limit that.

 

Here's the YAC stats if you want to check out how he stacks. 

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2018&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=5&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=1

Good post for sure. 

Numbers do lie. Its all about context. 

Thanks for sharing. 

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3 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

Good post for sure. 

Numbers do lie. Its all about context. 

Thanks for sharing. 

Actually, the numbers are pretty complimentary of Hines if you're willing to look at advanced stats and dig a little deeper. If someone told you that in his rookie year he'd have 700+ all purpose yards, you'd probably say "heck yes".

 

He had more yards from scrimmage than anyone not named TY, Mack, or Ebron. That's more than Rogers, Wilkins (who had 20 more touches than hines), Inman, Pascal, and Grant.

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19 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Actually, the numbers are pretty complimentary of Hines if you're willing to look at advanced stats and dig a little deeper. If someone told you that in his rookie year he'd have 700+ all purpose yards, you'd probably say "heck yes".

 

He had more yards from scrimmage than anyone not named TY, Mack, or Ebron. That's more than Rogers, Wilkins (who had 20 more touches than hines), Inman, Pascal, and Grant.

I like having Hines as an outlet player on the field. Defense has to account for him as a runner or a pass Cather and the OC building plays has to be giddy with all the potential options and formations with all these guys. I wonder what signing Ware means for Wilkins on the team. No way do we keep 5. Decide after PS games I suppose.  

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22 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Actually, the numbers are pretty complimentary of Hines if you're willing to look at advanced stats and dig a little deeper. If someone told you that in his rookie year he'd have 700+ all purpose yards, you'd probably say "heck yes".

 

He had more yards from scrimmage than anyone not named TY, Mack, or Ebron. That's more than Rogers, Wilkins (who had 20 more touches than hines), Inman, Pascal, and Grant.

Well said. And again, it bears repeating: he was a ROOKIE. I look for even bigger things from him this year and his being a vital piece of a diverse and creative offense. 

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On 4/29/2019 at 12:47 PM, twfish said:

To be honest Campbell and Hines are kind of the same gadget players. 

 

False.

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6 hours ago, Jdubu said:

I like having Hines as an outlet player on the field. Defense has to account for him as a runner or a pass Cather and the OC building plays has to be giddy with all the potential options and formations with all these guys. I wonder what signing Ware means for Wilkins on the team. No way do we keep 5. Decide after PS games I suppose.  

I think signing ware has more impact to Williams than Wilkins. Wilkins is a pretty decent every down back up for mack and had a good ypc average. if mack goes down, i'd rather have wilkins filling in, than increasing ware's snaps. i'd prefer to keep ware as the primary short yardage back, and back that comes in late to punish DLs and LBs that are worn down.

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3 hours ago, Hoose said:

Well said. And again, it bears repeating: he was a ROOKIE. I look for even bigger things from him this year and his being a vital piece of a diverse and creative offense. 

yup, tremendous first year. i doubt he'll ever be a Kamara, McCaffrey, or Barkley, but he's a great 3-5th option who has great wheels. i hated when he started a couple games early when mack was down. he's not meant for every down use. if they use himevery once in a while on 2nd down and long, and obvious passing downs, he'll get his no doubt.

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28 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

yup, tremendous first year. i doubt he'll ever be a Kamara, McCaffrey, or Barkley, but he's a great 3-5th option who has great wheels. i hated when he started a couple games early when mack was down. he's not meant for every down use. if they use himevery once in a while on 2nd down and long, and obvious passing downs, he'll get his no doubt.

In that regard, he does remind me of Sproles, who is not an every down back but can be used to shake it up here and there carrying the ball. He is the modern gadget man who can run the ball, play out of the slot, go in motion, pull off a jet sweep, etc. I love the guy, and he will have a positive, important impact within the Colts offense next season. He might just get over the fumbleitis on ko/punt returns and take Rogers' spot. That would make him a total Sproles clone. 

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3 minutes ago, Hoose said:

In that regard, he does remind me of Sproles, who is not an every down back but can be used to shake it up here and there carrying the ball. He is the modern gadget man who can run the ball, play out of the slot, go in motion, pull off a jet sweep, etc. I love the guy, and he will have a positive, important impact within the Colts offense next season. He might just get over the fumbleitis on ko/punt returns and take Rogers' spot. That would make him a total Sproles clone. 

i'd love to see Hines, Campbell, and Dulin (UDFA) all get a shot at returns. 

Best hands win!

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12 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

I think signing ware has more impact to Williams than Wilkins. Wilkins is a pretty decent every down back up for mack and had a good ypc average. if mack goes down, i'd rather have wilkins filling in, than increasing ware's snaps. i'd prefer to keep ware as the primary short yardage back, and back that comes in late to punish DLs and LBs that are worn down.

Williams? I see only 4 RB’s making the team. Mack,Hines, Wilkins and Ware probably unless he isn’t the same player he was in KC and one of those kids beat him out. 

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9 hours ago, Jdubu said:

Williams? I see only 4 RB’s making the team. Mack,Hines, Wilkins and Ware probably unless he isn’t the same player he was in KC and one of those kids beat him out. 

that's what i said above. 

point i was making was that signing Ware is worse for Williams, than Wilkins. I don't see us cutting our RB2 (Wilkins) after his rookie season, over a guy like Williams who has bounced around to several teams in the last couple years.

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3 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

that's what i said above. 

point i was making was that signing Ware is worse for Williams, than Wilkins. I don't see us cutting our RB2 (Wilkins) after his rookie season, over a guy like Williams who has bounced around to several teams in the last couple years.

Got it. That’s what working nights does to a guys brain. Unable to clearly read and comprehend stuff lol. 

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13 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

Got it. That’s what working nights does to a guys brain. Unable to clearly read and comprehend stuff lol. 

no worries. i type fast and tired all the time :-)

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