Kiper: "Ballard does it again. This is my favorite draft class."

[WoolMagnet]

5 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 So now i see him looking for a run stuffing DT to compete with Grover, and of course a guy that can do that and push the pocket would be best.
 CB would consider anyone, including high value pricey if it was the right person. The value Probably won't come till training camp/time for final cuts, but he will add someone IMO. 

I think (and hope) this as well.  With all this influx of rookie DL talent, i'm hoping a serviceable option will become available.

Or what about that Washington #2 pick as trade bait for the right guy?

Just now, WoolMagnet said:

I think (and hope) this as well.  With all this influx of rookie DL talent, i'm hoping a serviceable option will become available after cuts.

Or what about that Washington #2 pick as trade bait for the right guy?

 

[LockeDown]

Ballard always gives you the answer.  He said twice that all of our answers won’t come in just the draft.  So he’s not through. 

[EastStreet]

12 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Now THAT is how to answer a friggin' question! Awesome answer! 

 

Now here's a follow up.  Even though he PLAYED the slot on our heavily underwhelming set of options last year, is there really any reason from a skills point of view that Rogers is a good slot receiver option? (Maybe there is, but he just seems like GENERIC RECEIVER INSERT WHEREVER type of guy rather than one that displays any real penchant for being a slot. 

Not saying he's a great option, but he does get more separation than any WR on the team, including TY. Separation isn't everything, especially if you have TY's skill set, but it does make a QBs job much easier.

 

Keep in mind Rogers is still young, and only started 6 games prior to having a fully healthy Luck. Last year was really his first time playing with a good QB. And, he took a very nice step forward catching the 2nd most WR yards.

 

In short, I'm up in the air on Rogers right now. He was probably the most steady/reliable option last year after TY, and can also back up TY at Z when TY is hurt. The competition just increased a bunch, so he'll need to continue taking steps forward if he wants to stay. If Cain comes back strong, and Parris is the real deal and gets tossed at the slot position, could be bad news for Chester. Lots of moving pieces though. Sure will be interesting.

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Also, which is more important, height or speed and how does that manifest itself in terms of positional usage?  Is TY locked in at Z solely based on speed OR solely based on he has been the only truly top notch WR on the roster in his entire time with the Colts, and I include Reggie who was clearly in decline even year 1 with Hilton.  Once he was gone, we had no one but TY.  (And I still insist that not bringing him back for a final year was the most low life move of Grigson's tenure because he gave us so much AND he literally was still, at the end, better than anyone we had on the team not named TY and even if he wasn't, he was world's better than nearly any other and would have been reliable when on the field even if his role was limited.  He would have EARNED the job in camp, AND he would have solidified his HOF credentials whereas now it isn't certain, certainly no where near a first ballot... but I digress...)  So let's say a LEGIT #1 talent showed up tomorrow in Indy.  Does that change Hilton's position? Does he become far more likely used in the slot? Of course he'd still be on the field all the time, but doesn't TY's talent determine he'd always be in any of those slots unless we had 3 better options?).  

 

How much "height" is enough to overcome any positional limitations, especially when attached to speed? 

 

With O schemes evolving, and all the variances and specialization, it's harder than ever to say this type of WR is better at this position, because of this height, or this speed. You also have different types of skill sets within positions (especially X and slot) that will play based on situation (short vs long, RZ or between the 20s). Here' my thought on the positions.

 

X -

General - The guy regardless of which type he is, needs to be able to beat the press at the line to even start to be successful. If he can't slap away a CB, he needs to be moved to slot or Z.

Speed X - Deep threat who can take the top off the D, and can turn and blaze. Used in long yardage situations and between the 20s. If you have a guy with a limited route tree but has burner speed, speed or deep X is the easiest place to insert him while he polishes the rest of his game. If you only ask him go deep, or run limited routes, he can contribute early. Height doesn't matter as much here. 

Possession X - Might not be the fastest, but has decent height and vice grips for hands, runs good routes, and has good ups. Excels at 50/50 catches. Used more in short yardage and RZ situations. Funchess has been a possession X during his career. The only bag on him has been his hands.

Comment - A guy who can check both speed and possession boxes, is the best to have. Many think Cain could be that guy as he's got a great mix of speed and height. We haven't had that guy. We didn't have a speed X, that's for sure, and I wouldn't say they were dominating possession Xs either.

 

Slot - 

General - More than anything, the guy needs to be fearless and willing to go across the middle and take a hit. A Z type WR might end up here if he's willing to take the contact.

Traditional slot - smaller, runs good routes, gets separation, and is at minimum quicker than fast. You see a lot of guys who have more twitch than top end speed here. Ideally you also want a guy with good YAC skills, which is why you see some smaller RBs convert to slot. If you can get a truly speedy guy with good twitch, they can be special. Parris might be that guy.

Big slot - "Big" are typically TE-lite or big possession X guys (which is why I can see Funchess excel here). It's more or less like having a faster flex TE on the field without really having a TE on the field lol. I could see Funchess playing here considerably more than he did in Carolina, especially if Cain comes back strong. It's more of a possession type slot.

Bully slot - "Bully" are typically running back (not undersized) type body profiles. Similar to traditional, just a bit more brute. Again, has the twitch and YAC skill set. 

Comment - Chester is traditional. Not blazing fast but decent at 4.56. Since he leads the team in separation stats, we can he runs good routes and has good twitch.

 

Z -

General - I'd bet most teams' fastest guys go here. They have the benefit of motion and ideally can be lined up anywhere to create mismatch and havoc. They play off the line and don't have to deal with slapping off DBs as much as Xs.

Traditional - Height is probably the least important at Z. TY is 5-9 and is highly successful. He also runs in the 4.3s. He's a pinball that can challenge every inch of the field horizontally or vertically.

Comments - When Zs start to slow a bit, they often can end up extending their careers at slot if they are willing to take the hits. I'd bet TY would be willing if it meant retiring in Indy. He and Parris for instance could swap spots down the road IF Parris polishes his route tree and WHEN TY starts to lose a step. 

 

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My bottom line is shouldn't we be lining up the 3 best combinations of speed, height, hands and route running we have, regardless of X, Y, Z concepts? It's an honest question because I don't seem to see consistency.  Is Campbell an obvious slot or is Funchess? Two nearly opposite (on paper) talents? This is what I don't really get.  It seems to me that any player with an advantage in their game can use that advantage in any positional placement? 

In short, yes (best combos), but it's just not that simple. If you are in a short yardage or RZ situation, you want something different than when you are 1st and 10 between the 20s, or 3rd and long. 

 

So if we assume Cain comes back strong, and Parris hits the ground running:

Cain for instance, has both size and speed, and could fit any field position situation. Big bonus when they can do that. Parris would be primary slot most times except short yardage situations where Funchess is a better option. TY like Cain, could remain regardless assuming we are in a 3WR set.

 

Best guest based on the assumption above in 3WR sets.

Standard downs (not short yardage) and long yardage is Cain/Parris/TY.

In short yardage Cain/Funchess/TY

 

Having line ups like Cain/Funchess/TY/Ebron or Cain/Parris/TY/Ebron will scare the hell out of Ds. Just having other speed and vertical threats on the field with TY will make Luck's job, and TY's job much much easier. Let's just pray that Cain comes back strong and Parris picks things up quickly.

 

 

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Thanks again for a great response! 

You're welcome, and no problem. 

[Dark Superman]

I'm also a fan of this years picks from Ballard. Give this guy one more offseason and the Colts may very well be the best team in the NFL.

[Jay Kirk]

On 4/28/2019 at 10:23 AM, NewEra said:

Just because we didn't get the "names" or the guys we thought we should pick they knock the picks. Cause obviously they're GM's and work with an entire scouting department and do thorough research on the players as well. Go figure, same sh%# different day. It's every draft

Yes I agree , last year who knew Leonards name ? I think Ballard has a great scouting team in place.

[NewColtsFan]

 

I find it amusing....  

 

Since I arrived here 7 years ago,  and I'm sure it was the prevailing view before that,  people here have complained about the media.    Local media,  national media.    Everyone hates the Colts.   East Coast bias.   Everyone hates Irsay.    Everyone hated Grigson and most everything he did.

 

Now, we have media singing our praises, saying we did a great job --- again --- and many here are....    complaining.    "Who did we bribe" says one thread.    "Who cares about Mel Kiper,  what does he know" says another.     We have media types saying good things about the Colts,  and too many people here for my comfort level are....   complaining.

 

Only here......

 

[crazycolt1]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I find it amusing....  

 

Since I arrived here 7 years ago,  and I'm sure it was the prevailing view before that,  people here have complained about the media.    Local media,  national media.    Everyone hates the Colts.   East Coast bias.   Everyone hates Irsay.    Everyone hated Grigson and most everything he did.

 

Now, we have media singing our praises, saying we did a great job --- again --- and many here are....    complaining.    "Who did we bribe" says one thread.    "Who cares about Mel Kiper,  what does he know" says another.     We have media types saying good things about the Colts,  and too many people here for my comfort level are....   complaining.

 

Only here......

 

I am one of those who have a problem with the media.

As far as sports media they are no different than national media just on a lower scale.

We can't even get a straight reporter or announcer without getting "color commentary".  Who is going to break the story first no matter if the story is true or not. Who can come up with the next catchy phrase. Now we have show after show called point-counter point that are nothing but arguments.

Personally the only time I even watch sports TV is watching the games themselves. And that is with the sound turned off.

I guess I am just too old school and just want the results, not all the so called entertainment that goes along with it.

That is just sports, don't even get me started on national media.

Sorry, just my two cents.

[NewColtsFan]

39 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am one of those who have a problem with the media.

As far as sports media they are no different than national media just on a lower scale.

We can't even get a straight reporter or announcer without getting "color commentary".  Who is going to break the story first no matter if the story is true or not. Who can come up with the next catchy phrase. Now we have show after show called point-counter point that are nothing but arguments.

Personally the only time I even watch sports TV is watching the games themselves. And that is with the sound turned off.

I guess I am just too old school and just want the results, not all the so called entertainment that goes along with it.

That is just sports, don't even get me started on national media.

Sorry, just my two cents.

 

I know you have problems with the media...   and that's OK....

 

But I'm not sure you even realize that what you wrote here has nothing to do with what I wrote that you reacted to.

 

Maybe it doens't even matter...     OK...    we move on...   no worries...

 

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I know you have problems with the media...   and that's OK....

 

But I'm not sure you even realize that what you wrote here has nothing to do with what I wrote that you reacted to.

 

Maybe it doens't even matter...     OK...    we move on...   no worries...

 

After thinking about it you are right.  My bad.

I also find it amusing the issue you are referring to.

[NDcolt]

On 4/29/2019 at 12:27 AM, WoolMagnet said:

I saw this.  Does Kiper really agree?  Is he just getting on board the Ballard train?  I don't care, personally.  I'll take the good mojo from "the hair".  

  Like last year, except for a couple guys, the names mean nothing to me.  This draft seemed very void of as many household names as in past drafts.

  Anyone look into what the media thinks?  I'd like to hear Cowherds comments.

Watching the Episodes, CB just gets it!  An Alpha Male that lets his entire team challenge him and most impressive has them believing that they are just as important as him himself.  I mean the greatest Leader is only as good as the people he’s leading.  He’s smart, drafting hi caliber players hat fit his system is the #1 trait!  In Ballard we TRUST