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Dining on Crow and Humble Pie this Weekend....

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16 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

 

I like that Ballard does what he wants. Let's just hope that his bucking the consensus is successful again this year. 

 

I don’t think he goes out of his way buck the consensus, or that he has “smartest guy in the room syndrome,” but he rarely views the needs on the roster the same way fans & analysts do, & it leads to drafting guys like Darius Leonard.

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1 hour ago, Shive said:

I'm lukewarm with Rock, just because it remains to be seen how he'll adjust to our scheme and how he fits. No doubt a high character guy with solid tangibles. I'll trust Ballard on this one.

 

I was really dumbfounded (borderline *) with the Banogu pick last night, especially thinking of him as a pass rushing DE. After hearing Ballard explain where they see him fit in ar SAM and a pass rush chess piece, I'm WAY more excited. He'll have an adjustment, but I don't think it'll take as long as some may think.

 

I wasn't for Parris Campbell pre-draft, because I really wanted AJ Brown and didn't think Campbell brought what I thought we were missing at WR. Thinking more about it, I believe Funchess fills the role that I envisioned for AJ Brown and a guy like Campbell could really help on the short to intermediate routes. I'm excited to see what he can do. Imagine him, TY, Cain, and Hines on the field at the same time. That speed!!!

 

Okereke is an intriguing pick, but one that I think allows us to have another athletic LB, who I think may also be able to play some of what Geathers has been asked to do in certain sub-packages.

 

Given a night to sleep on day 2, I'm way more optimistic with the guys we drafted and think there's still a lot of talent left on the board going into the 4th round.

I'm warming up to RYS for different reasons. I think he will make us better this year vs a much better schedule of good passers. I still think we could have picked a less raw, or more polished fit for our D. He's got a very high ceiling though.

 

I think Banogu is still a reach. Seems more gadgety than I'd like, and think it only fills a very specific, and limited snap count need. 

 

Parris is interesting. OSU puts all of their weapons in a pretty confined box of uses. I would have liked to got someone more polished, from a school that doesn't pigeon hole their WRs, but there's no doubt he has the raw tools to be very good in time. IMO we already have too many raw projects on the roster. We really could have used a guy that was more well rounded and ready.

 

Still haven't thought too much on Okereke. Followed him the last 4 years, and very familiar with him since I'm an ND fan. He led the Tree last year in Ts, and is athletic. He's just undersized and far off the prototypical prospect. I think he'll be a STs monster early though. 

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12 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

Lots of back & forth bickring has been removed... 

 

Those involved can private message each other, if they so desire...

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7 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I don’t think he goes out of his way buck the consensus, or that he has “smartest guy in the room syndrome,” but he rarely views the needs on the roster the same way fans & analysts do, & it leads to drafting guys like Darius Leonard.

I don't think he purposefully tried to buck the system either. I like that he doesn't listen to the talking heads. 

 

On Leonard though, he's not as big of a reach that most thought. The only true "reach" component of Leonard is that he was from a small school. He was first team conference at least 2 years, and defensive conference player of the year. if that's less impressive because it's from a small conference, you only have to look at his performance vs Clemson, or at the Senior Bowl. He has tremendous measureables, so it was really only a question of MEAC to the NFL translation. i expected him to be good. i think even Ballard was surprised how good, and how fast he was good.

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36 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

Lots of back & forth bickring has been removed... 

 

 

Thanks!

 

Folks, please take any personal bickering off line.  It's off topic at best and baiting at worst.

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37 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

The only true "reach" component of Leonard is that he was from a small school.

 

Gil Brandt has said this for years on his shows, has told Pat Kirwan, recently told the same to Chris Ballard.  Talented small school guys that move up to bigger schools-

 

Know they are good enough

Hungry to get even better and prove it.

Do well in the NFL

 

Polian says there is no such thing as reach in the industry.  You want a guy, he is there, go get the guy. He says reach is a term fans and media use because they did not pick 'their guy'.

 

He says there is a missing out on your guy because you thought you ( or listened to the 'Noise') could delay the pick until your next slot. And he was taken just before your next pick.

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2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

The reality is......... EVERYONE was wrong at SOME level...... on this board..... 

and from the "experts"

 

Some people were "right" about parts........  I didnt see a 100% "right" mock from anyone

 

Right position, wrong spot, wrong player (Or some combination)

 

Its all in fun.......  No real experts on this board......

 

 

 

 

 

The only people that were wrong were those convinced we were 'very likely' to take DL early and 'very unlikely, or absolutely not' taking a corner early. Which was about half.  This team had no imminent needs. This team could use difference makers in several spots. The rigid folks who decided which positions would be snagged by round are the only people who were wrong. And they were plentiful. 

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I don’t see the short area quickness with Bobby but I have to admit his instincts and steps are rarely wasted. He’d have to maximize every bit of those to keep up with elite receiving TE s and RBs underneath.

 

Even Leonard would have a hard time keeping up with guys like Kelce underneath constantly, so there’s still work to do underneath in coverage for our LB squad, IMO.

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29 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Gil Brandt has said this for years on his shows, has told Pat Kirwan, recently told the same to Chris Ballard.  Talented small school guys that move up to bigger schools-

 

Know they are good enough

Hungry to get even better and prove it.

Do well in the NFL

 

Polian says there is no such thing as reach in the industry.  You want a guy, he is there, go get the guy. He says reach is a term fans and media use because they did not pick 'their guy'.

 

He says there is a missing out on your guy because you thought you ( or listened to the 'Noise') could delay the pick until your next slot. And he was taken just before your next pick.

I love Polian because he was a Colt for so long, but he's far from a sage. Brandt has his moments.

 

Keep in mind Polian is part of the "media" now lol, and was pretty bad on the D side of all things GM. Winning only one SB with Manning and our playoff record those years, is pretty meh. He was historically uneasy to deal with (his own FO) and hated criticism. So... I can understand his mentality about fans and media. He hated the media back then. Now he's media... 

 

In terms of getting your guy regardless of what people think, or where their rated. I'm more than good with that. When a GM does it, and it works out, he's a genius. When he does, and it doesn't, well then he's the opposite of a genius :-). It's all about production, and you have to take the criticism with the kudos.

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4 hours ago, Rally5 said:

He fits our culture, not our schemes.  If you watch Banogu for example, he plays as a 3-4 LB and a DE who at times goes inside to DT and we're going to play him as a 4-3 backer.  Do you see that as a natural fit, if you do then we have different definitions of the term.  Ballard sees an athletic guy, so do I, who is a great cultural fit that we need to find a way to use, which we will but he's not a natural scheme fit by any means.  Yasin, I have already explained.  He's a press cover corner and we play Cover 2 zone, so he has to learn to play zone and we may incorporate some press man into our defense.  So that's what I'm saying.  Both guys, accordingly to Ballard, are great culture fits who bring the athleticism we're looking for but they will have a lot of adjusting to do..a lot.  Try not to be offended by my opinion its grounded in fact and I'm not suggesting they were bad picks, so be cool.

 

 Now we all know we don't play cover 2 zone. Why would you post this garbage?
 We play many different coverages. And Ballard says you have to be able to man up to stop on 3rd downs. Well, you better have the CB's that can do it. 

 This is SIMPLE stuff.
 Just wondering, as a 3-4 outside backer did our guy drop into coverage?
I know he showed smooth transitions doing that at the combine.
 And of course he has the size to be interesting on 1st downs on the strong side against good running teams (TN), and short yardage. An interesting prospect.
 

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14 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

I love Polian because he was a Colt for so long, but he's far from a sage. Brandt has his moments.

 

Both are Hall of Fame.

 

14 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Keep in mind Polian is part of the "media" now lol, and was pretty bad on the D side of all things GM.

 

Yeah, he missed bad in those later rounds/UDFA getting D guys like Antoine Bethea, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett ...

 

14 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

 

Winning only one SB with Manning and our playoff record those years, is pretty meh.

 

Patriots and Steelers were just as tough as the Colts, and Chargers were stacked too.  Not to mention Dungy's son issue right at playoffs of maybe our best team of the decade.

 

14 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

 

He was historically uneasy to deal with (his own FO) and hated criticism. So... I can understand his mentality about fans and media. He hated the media back then. Now he's media... 

 

Yet as media, he mentions how teams don't care about the pundits, and fans mocks.  It's 'Noise'.   He doesn't add to the noise.

 

14 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

In terms of getting your guy regardless of what people think, or where their rated. I'm more than good with that. When a GM does it, and it works out, he's a genius. When he does, and it doesn't, well then he's the opposite of a genius :-). It's all about production, and you have to take the criticism with the kudos.

 

And they do.  Miss enough, you get replaced. Just like the players do.

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42 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Now we all know we don't play cover 2 zone. Why would you post this garbage?
 We play many different coverages. And Ballard says you have to be able to man up to stop on 3rd downs. Well, you better have the CB's that can do it. 

 This is SIMPLE stuff.
 Just wondering, as a 3-4 outside backer did our guy drop into coverage?
I know he showed smooth transitions doing that at the combine.
 And of course he has the size to be interesting on 1st downs on the strong side against good running teams (TN), and short yardage. An interesting prospect.
 

Man, why can't people have decent conversations, why do people get so defensive and worked up over legitimate, simple opinions that they disagree with?  How about you ask the question like a grown up and I will respond to it.

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57 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Now we all know we don't play cover 2 zone. Why would you post this garbage?
 We play many different coverages. And Ballard says you have to be able to man up to stop on 3rd downs. Well, you better have the CB's that can do it. 

 This is SIMPLE stuff.
 Just wondering, as a 3-4 outside backer did our guy drop into coverage?
I know he showed smooth transitions doing that at the combine.
 And of course he has the size to be interesting on 1st downs on the strong side against good running teams (TN), and short yardage. An interesting prospect.
 

Ok, I'll go ahead and answer, we absolutely play a 4-3 cover two base defense, I'm not sure what you think we play.  If you're suggesting that at times we play cover three or on more rare occasions we play man or press man, that's fine but it's rare.  Sometimes we play nickle too.  Sometimes we drop our backers into coverage and sometimes we don't, sometimes we blitz corner, sometimes we stunt, sometimes we send M, W, S or we run combo stunts but all this is coming from a cover 2 base D.  I played Corner and Safety so maybe there's some new defensive base we're playing that I don't know about?  I'm open to you educating me on that.

 

As for my points, I very clearly say I like the picks, that shouldn't offend you.  These guys clearly have learning to do, when I watch the videos on the Banagou, he didn't drop into coverage, he was a backfield guy, which makes perfect sense as to why we like him, we want DLine that can penetrate so the zone schemes don't breakdown.  The guy is super athletic, I like that, BUT I saw zero indication he ever played as a 4-3 backer.  That's a completely legitimate point, I don't dislike him for that..it's just what I saw in a 5-minute clip man, so what do I know, I get it...mostly nothing, just like you.  It's ok to be civil...

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14 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Both are Hall of Fame.

Yes they are. 

 

Quote

Yeah, he missed bad in those later rounds/UDFA getting D guys like Antoine Bethea, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett ...

nobody is saying he was a bad at talent evaluation. he had some great hits in his 14 years, and some busts. some of his bust in early round draft picks. ugoh, tripplett, burns, bashir, doss, pathon, and others.

 

Quote

Patriots and Steelers were just as tough as the Colts, and Chargers were stacked too.  Not to mention Dungy's son issue right at playoffs of maybe our best team of the decade.

 

It was more about our up and down inconsistency on D from year to year, than any of the reasons above. Losing 2 first round home games vs the Jets, and IIRC the Dophins and Titans, were just plain bad. Sure the Pats, Steelers, and Chargers were tough. There's always other tough teams. I'm fine with road losses to the Pats, etc., but home losses to Pit and SD aren't OK.

 

Quote

Yet as media, he mentions how teams don't care about the pundits, and fans mocks.  It's 'Noise'.   He doesn't add to the noise.

 

He provides plenty of opinions on players, which is part of the noise. He's having his cake and eating it too.

 

Quote

And they do.  Miss enough, you get replaced. Just like the players do.

 

Hoping CB hits a home run on every pick!

Hoping 

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3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Honestly...  I’ve never found Ballard unpredictable before.   Not intil yesterday.   Lesson learned the hard way by me. 

@NewColtsFan   I think you and are the two that counted more on his predictability more than anyone.     We were duped! 

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17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

In my 7 years here,  I don't recall being more wrong than I have today.     And I'm OK with it.   I never think I know more than Ballard.   I have complete trust in CB, and it would take a long string of failure for me to lose it.    And I don't see that happening.   As I've said before,  he just oozes competence and professionalism.     So glad he's our GM.

 

But to all my mistakes.    We can start at the beginning...   for roughly 6 months I've been convinced we'd pick a DL in the first round,  and for a fair amount of those months,  I thought we'd double up and take another DL at pick 34.      Wrong and Wrong!    And I certainly never saw our first overall pick of the draft being a cornerback?!    Cornerback?!?   Wrong again!   I guess Ballard's definition of "Premium position" is limited only to the first round.   Ballard has now had 3 drafts and take a corner in the 2nd round twice.   Can't be a coincidence.  I would've thought that a top-50 pick would be premium.   Wrong again!    So, for those posters who I have pounded on,  trust me,  it will STOP from here on out.   After R1,  I guess anything is possible.

 

At pick 49,  I didn't see Ben Benogu going that high.   And I posted here that I thought he'd play DE for us.   And then the Colts called him an OLB.   And Kevin Bowen said we talked to him about playing next to Darius Leonard.    At his presser,  Ballard said BB can play all 3 LB spots, plus DE and could even kick inside to DT.    Called him a "rusher".     They're very high on him.    Tested as a top athlete for his size. 

 

At pick 59,  I wasn't surprised we went WR.   But I had no feel for whether we'd go tall like Butler, or small like Isabella,  or someone in the middle?  No idea.    Ballard and Reich gushed over Parris.  

 

And, even as a Stanford fan,  I confess to being surprised at Bobby Okereke going at pick 89.   I posted in the last month or two, that I thought Bobby was a quality back-up,  but wasn't sure he was a starter,  especially for us since I think he'd play the same spot as Darius at WILL.  I thought he might be a R4 or R5 guy.   But tonight.  CB says Okereke can play all three spots, which surprised me.    Bobby has been mostly an under-achiever at Stanford.   Even this year, his best,  people were not wowed by him.   He was listed at 6'3" and 235,  and those close to the program chuckled all the time about that.   They claimed he was neither that tall, nor that heavy.    And then he showed up at the Combine and under 6'2", so he was shorter,  but weighed 239.   That shocked everyone.   I'd guess he put on 8-12 pounds of good lean muscle after the season.  That also surprised the Stanford community.    He tested surprisingly well at the combine and pro day.    And Ballard seems very high on him.

 

Ballard talked tonight about adding, speed and athleticism.   He and Frank seem very happy with their results.    They gave no hints for tomorrow.

 

I'm eating crow.   A little garlic salt helps!    Washing it down with water.   Topping it off with some Humble Pie!      Bon Appetite!

 

 

 

 

I wouldn’t call you wrong. I don’t remember you making any guarantees. There’s nothing wrong with having an opinion. 

 

The draft went about the way I thought it might. I felt we might get in a jam at 26, and it appears that we did. I think Ballard had his eyes set on Hollywood Brown and the Ravens snatched him right in front of us. After that, I think he had a few players in mind, including a few corners bunched together (Baker, Murphy, and Rock), so he decided to take the Redskins deal and trade back. Rock was the only one to make it to 34. 

 

I think it was our Plan A all along to take Hollywood at 26 and Rock at 34. Had Hollywood not been snatched up then I think Ballard might have rolled the dice and traded back from 34, hoping that Rock was still there. But I think the Raiders would have grabbed him at 35, because they immediately traded back after we selected Rock. 

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Ballard says a lot of things.  In life, people say a lot of things.  It doesn't mean much.  Is that news to someone? 

 

Someone is disappointed a GM of a professional football team isn't predictable?  Ok.

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18 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

In my 7 years here,  I don't recall being more wrong than I have today.     And I'm OK with it.   I never think I know more than Ballard.   I have complete trust in CB, and it would take a long string of failure for me to lose it.    And I don't see that happening.   As I've said before,  he just oozes competence and professionalism.     So glad he's our GM.

 

But to all my mistakes.    We can start at the beginning...   for roughly 6 months I've been convinced we'd pick a DL in the first round,  and for a fair amount of those months,  I thought we'd double up and take another DL at pick 34.      Wrong and Wrong!    And I certainly never saw our first overall pick of the draft being a cornerback?!    Cornerback?!?   Wrong again!   I guess Ballard's definition of "Premium position" is limited only to the first round.   Ballard has now had 3 drafts and take a corner in the 2nd round twice.   Can't be a coincidence.  I would've thought that a top-50 pick would be premium.   Wrong again!    So, for those posters who I have pounded on,  trust me,  it will STOP from here on out.   After R1,  I guess anything is possible.

 

At pick 49,  I didn't see Ben Benogu going that high.   And I posted here that I thought he'd play DE for us.   And then the Colts called him an OLB.   And Kevin Bowen said we talked to him about playing next to Darius Leonard.    At his presser,  Ballard said BB can play all 3 LB spots, plus DE and could even kick inside to DT.    Called him a "rusher".     They're very high on him.    Tested as a top athlete for his size. 

 

At pick 59,  I wasn't surprised we went WR.   But I had no feel for whether we'd go tall like Butler, or small like Isabella,  or someone in the middle?  No idea.    Ballard and Reich gushed over Parris.  

 

And, even as a Stanford fan,  I confess to being surprised at Bobby Okereke going at pick 89.   I posted in the last month or two, that I thought Bobby was a quality back-up,  but wasn't sure he was a starter,  especially for us since I think he'd play the same spot as Darius at WILL.  I thought he might be a R4 or R5 guy.   But tonight.  CB says Okereke can play all three spots, which surprised me.    Bobby has been mostly an under-achiever at Stanford.   Even this year, his best,  people were not wowed by him.   He was listed at 6'3" and 235,  and those close to the program chuckled all the time about that.   They claimed he was neither that tall, nor that heavy.    And then he showed up at the Combine and under 6'2", so he was shorter,  but weighed 239.   That shocked everyone.   I'd guess he put on 8-12 pounds of good lean muscle after the season.  That also surprised the Stanford community.    He tested surprisingly well at the combine and pro day.    And Ballard seems very high on him.

 

Ballard talked tonight about adding, speed and athleticism.   He and Frank seem very happy with their results.    They gave no hints for tomorrow.

 

I'm eating crow.   A little garlic salt helps!    Washing it down with water.   Topping it off with some Humble Pie!      Bon Appetite!

 

 

 

Why????  You are one of my favorite commenters on here and you only went through the information/misinformation that we all have read leading up to the draft.  You owe no digesting of any pie or fowl, unless you choose, in my eyes.  I appreciate your knowledge and candor!

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I watch the draft every year, and learned years ago it is totally unpredictable.  No matter who we drafted, if they are good enough for our owner, Gm, and coach, I think everything will work out just fine.

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13 hours ago, krunk said:

Aint nothing terrible about Banogu. Banogu is a tough ball player and he put up the same sack numbers as Burns who im sure you would have jumped for joy if we got in Rd 1. And he did this on more than one occasion. And what i like best is Banogu is way better than Burns against the run. He runs a 4.5 so hes fast also. Banogu brings value to the table.

 

If you can post a couple games for me to watch, I'd love it.  I've watched every game I could find and I can't find one yet where he looks like a good pass rusher worthy if a #2 and nothing like Burns game tapes.  I really want to like this pick, but can't so far, to be honest.  Maybe if his skill sets were more along the lines of a good run defender with pass rusher potential, I'd be more accepting, but still seems very high. 

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10 hours ago, Dr. T said:

 

I agree with NewColtsFan that I was also wrong about everything and that Ya-Sin and Campbell were great picks. I was really disappointed that we didn't get Burns, but now it seems that Ben has similar stats with a bigger body size. Of course I never heard of him. Still don't know about how Bobby fits in. I would not have predicted that we would need more linebackers. I'm kinda happy with the ones we have, but I guess we can always get better

I'm kind of shocked at how many potential linebackers we picked.  

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26 minutes ago, cbear said:

 

If you can post a couple games for me to watch, I'd love it.  I've watched every game I could find and I can't find one yet where he looks like a good pass rusher worthy if a #2 and nothing like Burns game tapes.  I really want to like this pick, but can't so far, to be honest.  Maybe if his skill sets were more along the lines of a good run defender with pass rusher potential, I'd be more accepting, but still seems very high. 

You arent trying to be accepting of anything really. Wouldnt matter what i brought to you if you wanted someone else. 

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