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Report: Colts interested in Seattle DE Frank Clark? (merge)

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Posted 14 minutes ago

Clark reportedly traded to KC for the Chiefs 1st and 2nd round picks next year (2020), and a swap of 3rd round picks this year.  The trade subject to KC signing Clark to a long term contract.

 

For the price, glad it wasn't the Colts.

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GGod i love ballard!!  Thank you for not trading for him and giving that up!  

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1 minute ago, rockywoj said:

Posted 14 minutes ago

Clark reportedly traded to KC for the Chiefs 1st and 2nd round picks next year (2020), and a swap of 3rd round picks this year.  The trade subject to KC signing Clark to a long term contract.

 

For the price, glad it wasn't the Colts.

  Me too! I’ve heard from several sources that “you won’t find a Frank Clark in this years draft”. But when I look at the 2015 draft profiles, I don’t see Clark in the top 10 DEs or OLBs. 

    My point is that you can draft players that exceed expectations. 

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2 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

  Me too! I’ve heard from several sources that “you won’t find a Frank Clark in this years draft”. But when I look at the 2015 draft profiles, I don’t see Clark in the top 10 DEs or OLBs. 

    My point is that you can draft players that exceed expectations. 

 

I was aware of Clark at the time, and liked his tape. I wasn't surprised he went in the second, even though some people had him in the third or fourth, but the reason most people were off of him is because he had red flags off the field. He was also a bit of a tweener, and the NFL continues to struggle with tweener edge rushers (I wonder about Josh Allen, to be honest). 

 

But yes, players in later rounds can outperform earlier draft picks. Justin Houston was a third rounder for similar reasons to Clark.

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Sometimes I wonder if some people know the market of players.  I thought I saw proposed deals of Brissett and a non 1st round pick all the way down to a 2020 second round pick.

 

The market is steep, and Ballard is disciplined with the purse strings.  He and the pro personnel department have placed a value price tag on every guy.  Once the bidding surpasses that, Ballard kindly bows out.  He's had to do it many times this year.

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And he gets the Demarcus Lawrence contract, basically:

 

 

 

 

Ballard was never gonna do this. I believe he or Dodds might have made a call or two, but the idea that they were 'in the driver's seat' on this never made sense to me. 

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

And he gets the Demarcus Lawrence contract, basically:

 

 

 

 

Ballard was never gonna do this. I believe he or Dodds might have made a call or two, but the idea that they were 'in the driver's seat' on this never made sense to me. 

 

Agreed!

 

I don't even know if CB would have paid that contract by its lonesome.

 

Let alone give up a 1 and a 2 to then pay it.

 

Hope it works out for KC.

 

Seattle did pretty well for themselves there.

 

 

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That's a lot of compensation. However, they were in the AFC Championship game and needed an edge rusher to make the push next year.  There likely wasn't going to be anyone better at #29. The additional 2nd round pick is sort of goofy though.

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See what happens when Ballard leaves KC?  I like the Chiefs, always have, so I hope this works out for them.  They have great fans and an incredible atmosphere there at Arrowhead.  I know their offense will score a lot, and they'll need to if they want to make the playoffs again.  They lost a lot on defense in the off season and it wasn't great, anyway.

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5 minutes ago, TomDiggs said:

I don't even know if CB would have paid that contract by its lonesome.

 

For Frank Clark? I don't know, sounds like someone in the Colts organization would have vouched for him. For Demarcus Lawrence, I think so. 

 

But add in the picks, and it's a non-starter.

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4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

This is a competitive league. This is also a business.

Every player on the roster knows there is a possibility that someone with more talent can take their job. They all themselves took someone's job.

If Ballard does trade for Clark it's for the betterment of the team in his opinion.

 

Moot point now, but it tells me that he doesn't wan't to develop their pass rushers, they want to buy ( pay ) and bring in free agents at big bucks instead.  This after he's on record saying this-

 

“Just look at the roster and look at the contracts that are going to be coming up over the next two- to three-year period,” Ballard said. “Eventually, what you’d like to happen is you’re paying your own guys, you’re rewarding the guys in the locker room who have done the right things for you.

 

Getting Houston, OK.  I get it. Especially at that price he got.  But to later bring Clark in right after, for a massive contract (years/money) would override the 'draft and develop/pay your own' mantra.

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Just now, jvan1973 said:

Why not just keep Dee Ford?  

 

Clark is better than Ford. I think that's inarguable. 

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Clark is better than Ford. I think that's inarguable. 

They could have had Ford and their first for less money.    Also,   fwiw,  PFF graded Ford a better pass rusher.   I haven't watched either one very much. 

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Just now, jvan1973 said:

They could have had Ford and their first for less money.    Also,   fwiw,  PFF graded Ford a better pass rusher.   I haven't watched either one very much. 

 

Yeah, the cost difference is considerable. But if you feel one player is better than another, it explains why a team would spend more resources on him. I still don't like the deal for KC, but I understand why they would prefer Clark to Ford.

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7 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

See what happens when Ballard leaves KC?

 

What do you mean?  He wasn't in charge in KC.  :scratch:

 

I'm not sure the Chiefs are going to be this powerhouse moving forward that some seem to think about KC.

 

Coaches have a year of tape on Mahomes now.  Considering what the Chiefs gave up for Clark, and now his salary... and then there's his past domestic issue along with what happened with Hunt last year, and now Hill and if he'll even be available after his recent domestic issue (on top of his past domestic issue)...  I could see the Chiefs taking a step back and the Colts taking a step forward, basically switching places from last year.  :dunno:

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With the reports of Ballard being in on alot of guys, I wonder if he has been making the prices go up. Make the other teams spend alot more than they should while we still sit pretty on money and picks. Stinks we havnt won the talent but for the cost I'm ok with it.

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Just now, KB said:

With the reports of Ballard being in on alot of guys, I wonder if he has been making the prices go up. Make the other teams spend alot more than they should while we still sit pretty on money and picks.

 

I was just about to post the same thing.

 

I don't know if Ballard is doing it on purpose, but just being in talks with other teams about trading for their players is probably driving up the price for the eventual "winner" that makes the trade for the player.

 

Ballard seems like a sly dog, but is he that sly of a fox?  :thinking:

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I think KC could of got better deal if they would of just traded up in the draft for their own guy. If the colts are going to give up draft capital it’s better to move up in the draft and try to get  your own guy that will be a long time colt.

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4 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

What do you mean?  He wasn't in charge in KC.  :scratch:

 

I'm not sure the Chiefs are going to be this powerhouse moving forward that some seem to think about KC.

 

Coaches have a year of tape on Mahomes now.  Considering what the Chiefs gave up for Clark, and now his salary... and then there's his past domestic issue along with what happened with Hunt last year, and now Hill and if he'll even be available after his recent domestic issue (on top of his past domestic issue)...  I could see the Chiefs taking a step back and the Colts taking a step forward, basically switching places from last year.  :dunno:

 

I know he wasn't in charge, but I'm sure he would have had some input.  My comment was meant to be tongue in cheek in regards to Ballard.

 

I agree with your thoughts...seems things there are really shaky and your point about having film on Mahomes is going to allow teams to prepare better for him.

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50 minutes ago, Superman said:

And he gets the Demarcus Lawrence contract, basically.

Ballard was never gonna do this. I believe he or Dodds might have made a call or two, but the idea that they were 'in the driver's seat' on this never made sense to me. 

 

They released Houston, traded Ford away for a 2020 2nd round. And now, they give that 2nd back to Seattle along with a 1st rounder of this years draft which is just 2 days away.

 

Last year the Hitchens and Watkins deals, this year letting Houston and Ford go, give 15 mill per for Mathieu, who is almost as injury prone as Berry was, but not as good as him. And now, this. 

 

What to say .... I haven't become a Brett Veach fan ... if it's him and not Reid. Anyway, you can definitely see that Dorsey and Ballard have left the building. Mahomes will mask a lot of things there for a while, but this is a sophomore Grigson move for me...

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24 minutes ago, KB said:

With the reports of Ballard being in on alot of guys, I wonder if he has been making the prices go up. Make the other teams spend alot more than they should while we still sit pretty on money and picks. Stinks we havnt won the talent but for the cost I'm ok with it.

 

Maybe on some other players. Interesting thought.  In this case, I think it was Clark's agent saying, "Just give us a little bit more than DeMarcus Lawrence got and we'll sign it. That was the driving impetus.

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3 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

They released Houston, traded Ford for a 2020 2nd round, then now, they give that back to Seattle along with a 1st rounder of this years draft which is 2 days ahead.

 

Last year the Hitchens and Watkins deals, this year letting Houston and Ford go, give 15 mill per for Mathieu, who is almost as injury prone as Berry was, but not as good as him. And now, this. 

 

What to say .... I haven't become a Brett Veach fan ... if it's him and not Reid. Anyway, you can definitely see that Dorsey and Ballard has left the building. Mahomes will mask a lot of things there for a while, but this is a sophomore Grigson move for me...

 

Their value matrix seems a little out of whack, right? These deals have all been more brash than basically anything Grigson did.

 

I think Clark is a good player and I understand making a move for him and paying him, but I do think they paid a steep price.

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I'm okay with what has happened.  Thought we could get him for the 2nd rounder but not in the ball park obviously.

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Seems like Grady Jarrett and the Falcons couldn't reach an agreement on long-term contract and he signed his Franchise tag. He will be free agent next year again... 

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Is he better than Ford with an extra 1st round pick leaving the fold? No, he's not that good, and the team may not be thrilled that a guy from the outside gets paid while the guys on the team get dumped.

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7 minutes ago, ColtJax said:

No, he's not that good, and the team may not be thrilled that a guy from the outside gets paid while the guys on the team get dumped.

 

Another good point.

 

Ballard has been preaching developing and paying your own players because it may not go over well when an outsider comes in and gets paid while home-grown guys are shown the door.

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I look for Hill to be out of KC soon. Even without all the allegations they can’t afford his future contact with Clark and Mahomes getting a big deal.

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33 minutes ago, Superman said:

Their value matrix seems a little out of whack, right? These deals have all been more brash than basically anything Grigson did.

 

I think Clark is a good player and I understand making a move for him and paying him, but I do think they paid a steep price.

 

Yeah, it is. A bit weird honestly, after the Dorsey era, which was, if I have to describe it, very "sane" or methodical. This is very different now.

 

Regarding the Grigson analogy, my general impression of this new Chiefs staff is, that they seem to over-value outside resources over their own. Ballard/Dorsey are very different people, they like their own. Grigson always looked outside, mostly free agency, and was willing to overpay them in favor of grooming our own. Maybe because his failure in his drafts, but that was my overally impression of him. This new Chiefs staff is kinda similar. They let their own go - even their best ones, Houston, Berry, Ford, Morse  - and they put very high value on outside players like Watkins, Mathieu, Hitchens, now Clark. According to spotrac, 8 of their top10 highest paid players will be free agent signings next year. That's a very high number by its own. And especially high considering their recent - well, 2017 and prior - success of their drafts.

 

All in all, I am not a fan of what they do, but that's their business. If they fail, that's good for the Colts, so whatever. Clark is a very good player though. But they payed him like he was a Alex Mack type franchise chaning player. He isn't.

 

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

Seems like Grady Jarrett and the Falcons couldn't reach an agreement on long-term contract and he signed his Franchise tag. He will be free agent next year again... 

 

The Falcons have cap problems, this year and next. But they still have almost three months to negotiate with Jarrett. Him signing the tender just means it's guaranteed.

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16 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Yeah, it is. A bit weird honestly, after the Dorsey era, which was, if I have to describe it, very "sane" or methodical. This is very different now.

 

Regarding the Grigson analogy, my general impression of this new Chiefs staff is, that they seem to over-value outside resources over their own. Ballard/Dorsey are very different people, they like their own. Grigson always looked outside, mostly free agency, and was willing to overpay them in favor of grooming our own. Maybe because his failure in his drafts, but that was my overally impression of him. This new Chiefs staff is kinda similar. They let their own go - even their best ones, Houston, Berry, Ford, Morse  - and they put very high value on outside players like Watkins, Mathieu, Hitchens, now Clark. According to spotrac, 8 of their top10 highest paid players will be free agent signings next year. That's a very high number by its own. And especially high considering their recent - well, 2017 and prior - success of their drafts.

 

All in all, I am not a fan of what they do, but that's their business. If they fail, that's good for the Colts, so whatever. Clark is a very good player though. But they payed him like he was a Alex Mack type franchise chaning player. He isn't.

 

 

I don't really agree with a lot of the characterizations of how Grigson operated, but there's no need to go back over all of that in detail.

 

With the Chiefs, they've been kind of in limbo offensively, and I think that's a big part of why Sutton was fired. And the defensive adjustments they've made are defensible. I think they overpaid Hitchens, but not dramatically. They overpaid Mathieu. I don't think they overpaid Clark, but they did pay a steep trade price. But I understand letting Houston, Berry and Ford go, especially Ford with the scheme change.

 

As for their approach with adding outside players, it's an interesting change, and I'm not sure it's working. Their best players have still been their homegrown guys, the FAs have been kind of 'meh' to this point, and now they undermined their future homegrown pipeline with the Clark trade. 

 

Of course, Dorsey has done a little bit of everything with the Browns. We'll see that works out also.

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2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, the cost difference is considerable. But if you feel one player is better than another, it explains why a team would spend more resources on him. I still don't like the deal for KC, but I understand why they would prefer Clark to Ford.

Perhaps after letting Ford and Houston go, the Chiefs paid more than usual out of desperation.  They realized they are poised to make a run with pass rush needs and they dont see options in the draft where they pick.  The high guaranteed numbers that we are starting to see are what concern me.  Those are potential roster killers.  I'm ok being the "farm team" that some players sign one-year deals with to "ball-out" with the expectation of increasing their value for a long-term deal.   A few of them sprinkled throughout the team keeps the intensity and competition high throughout the season.

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24 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Perhaps after letting Ford and Houston go, the Chiefs paid more than usual out of desperation.  They realized they are poised to make a run with pass rush needs and they dont see options in the draft where they pick.  The high guaranteed numbers that we are starting to see are what concern me.  Those are potential roster killers.  I'm ok being the "farm team" that some players sign one-year deals with to "ball-out" with the expectation of increasing their value for a long-term deal.   A few of them sprinkled throughout the team keeps the intensity and competition high throughout the season.

 

Maybe they did panic, but I assumed when they traded Ford that they were working on something. It could have been that they hoped to get someone in the draft, maybe they wanted Sweat but didn't like his medical, or something like that. Either way, I'm not sure the price is as drastic as we're making it seem; this is less than the Bears gave up for Mack.

 

As for the guaranteed money, it's always overstated. End of the day, with rare exceptions (Mack and Donald, so far), the guaranteed money is contained in the first three years of the deal. As the cap and yearly averages increase, the three year guarantee goes up with it. But there's been no dramatic change in the way contracts are done. For the most part, even these big money contracts are 2-3 year deals, with team options after that.

 

Even Kirk Cousins, everyone got excited because it was fully guaranteed, but every QB gets a three year guarantee, so the guaranteed money wasn't that big of a departure from the norm. The big difference is that it's only three years, so Cousins has just as much flexibility as the Vikings do, assuming he's still a commodity when his contract is up.

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4 hours ago, csmopar said:

Told ya all Colts wouldn't trade for him...

Boy, you really went out on a limb there......

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55 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Boy, you really went out on a limb there......

Not at all. Doesn’t take much to see the pattern here

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didn't think it would happen (to the Colts), and very happy it didn't.

i just hate he's going to KC.

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8 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

 

Agreed!

 

I don't even know if CB would have paid that contract by its lonesome.

 

Let alone give up a 1 and a 2 to then pay it.

 

Hope it works out for KC.

 

Seattle did pretty well for themselves there.

 

 

 

Why?... They are a contender in the AFC and an obstacle for the Colts. I hope it blows up in their face. 

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On 4/22/2019 at 10:45 AM, Chloe6124 said:

This does not seem like a ballard move.

 

 

 

On 4/21/2019 at 10:13 PM, DerekDiggler said:

Trading the 26 for Clark would be stupid.  Ballard is not stupid.  

ballard is a character guy.  it would be like taking matt jones

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