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danlhart87

Gil Brandt compares Daniel Jones to Peyton Manning

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@ColtsBlueFL, ok all fair points. When I say "most" people, there was not 1 person in the media that I seen on ESPN or the NFL Network that liked the Jones pick. If Jones turns out to be great than I guess everyone will be wrong.

 

And not a single one of them being wrong (if it goes that way) will lose a paycheck/job over it.  Gettleman has his job/paycheck on the line.  Who is under more pressure to be sure to 'get it right?'

 

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Regarding Trubisky, it will be year 3 now so it should be a breakout year for him if he really is in that top 10 discussion, right? He has the coach and the defense. I am just saying as of now he in't there yet after 2 years. Luck was in the top 10 after his 2nd season.

 

Luck was a generational draft, {that some say he has failed to deliver on}.  With the way college offense has changed, he also needs to be compared to his other peers over their same time frames like Winston, Wentz, Mariota, Watson, Goff, EJ Manuel, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Football (Manzeil), Blake Bortles, etc.

 

Jeff Diamond (ex Sr. VP and GM of the Vikings - hiya @NFLfan - and ex Titans President) says what most GM's think-

 

"I never wanted to wait for a player to fall if I really believed he was the right pick, especially at the most important position of quarterback. If Jones was the QB that Gettleman and his scouts felt was the best fit for the team at that spot, then they were right to select him and not take what perhaps was a minimal risk of losing him before pick No. 17 or a trade-up from there."

 

Charlie Weiss was one I know said he probably would have selected J. Allen, then tried to trade back up from 17 to get Jones. But realizes it would be a risk and just taking the guy at #6 is probably the proper thing to do.

 

But I think nobody (including me) agrees with 'how' Gettleman is responding to the flak.

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7 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Jeff Diamond (ex Sr. VP and GM of the Vikings - hiya @NFLfan - and ex Titans President) says what most GM's think-

 

"I never wanted to wait for a player to fall if I really believed he was the right pick, especially at the most important position of quarterback. If Jones was the QB that Gettleman and his scouts felt was the best fit for the team at that spot, then they were right to select him and not take what perhaps was a minimal risk of losing him before pick No. 17 or a trade-up from there."

 

Hi, CBFL. ^^^ I agree with that statement by the former Vikings GM. This does not mean that I believe Jones is going to be great. However, this is the player Gettleman believes will be the future franchise QB. He cannot risk losing him. So, he took him. It may have been a "reach" but if he wins Super Bowls for the Giants, no one will remember.

 

I recall many years ago, the Jets drafted a TE, Kyle Brady in the first round. The television showed an angry Bill Belichick who had been prepared to draft Kyle Brady for the Browns, but lost him to the Jets. I believe the Browns were going to make their selection in the next few picks. Belichick's mind was so set on taking Kyle Brady that he did not have another player to select when they were on the clock. He would trade his first round pick after the Jets drafted Kyle. Imagine if that happened to Gettelman had he waited to pick Jones with his next pick but another team traded up for him. He would have been devastated. He really believes in Jones. 

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1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

It may have been a "reach" but if he wins Super Bowls for the Giants, no one will remember.

 

Yes, it is considered a reach, but only to media, pundits, and fans that like Haskins, or another QB, better. Not to the NY Giants.

 

And if he wins Super Bowls, it wasn't a reach at all. To anybody.  It was fans, media, pundits not getting it right when the club/GM did. Once a player is in the building, draft slot means little. Production is everything.

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On 5/4/2019 at 10:52 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@ColtsBlueFL, ok all fair points. When I say "most" people, there was not 1 person in the media that I seen on ESPN or the NFL Network that liked the Jones pick. If Jones turns out to be great than I guess everyone will be wrong. Regarding Trubisky, it will be year 3 now so it should be a breakout year for him if he really is in that top 10 discussion, right? He has the coach and the defense. I am just saying as of now he in't there yet after 2 years. Luck was in the top 10 after his 2nd season.

 

It won't be the first time.

 

My problem is with the insistence that he's not going to be good, as if anyone actually knows that.

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On 5/4/2019 at 2:14 PM, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

And not a single one of them being wrong (if it goes that way) will lose a paycheck/job over it.  Gettleman has his job/paycheck on the line.  Who is under more pressure to be sure to 'get it right?'

 

 

Luck was a generational draft, {that some say he has failed to deliver on}.  With the way college offense has changed, he also needs to be compared to his other peers over their same time frames like Winston, Wentz, Mariota, Watson, Goff, EJ Manuel, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Football (Manzeil), Blake Bortles, etc.

 

Jeff Diamond (ex Sr. VP and GM of the Vikings - hiya @NFLfan - and ex Titans President) says what most GM's think-

 

"I never wanted to wait for a player to fall if I really believed he was the right pick, especially at the most important position of quarterback. If Jones was the QB that Gettleman and his scouts felt was the best fit for the team at that spot, then they were right to select him and not take what perhaps was a minimal risk of losing him before pick No. 17 or a trade-up from there."

 

Charlie Weiss was one I know said he probably would have selected J. Allen, then tried to trade back up from 17 to get Jones. But realizes it would be a risk and just taking the guy at #6 is probably the proper thing to do.

 

But I think nobody (including me) agrees with 'how' Gettleman is responding to the flak.

You forgot the main peer to compare him to. Russell Wilson

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19 hours ago, BlueCrew48 said:

You forgot the main peer to compare him to. Russell Wilson

 

I can see comparing Kyler Murray to Russell (except Wilson lasted to round 3, I think).  Jones is very much comparable to his new mentor, Eli Manning, but he runs/moves better.

 

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20 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I can see comparing Kyler Murray to Russell (except Wilson lasted to round 3, I think).  Jones is very much comparable to his new mentor, Eli Manning, but he runs/moves better.

 

I was actually referring to the comparison of Luck to his peers in the above post:

 

Luck was a generational draft, {that some say he has failed to deliver on}.  With the way college offense has changed, he also needs to be compared to his other peers over their same time frames like Winston, Wentz, Mariota, Watson, Goff, EJ Manuel, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Football (Manzeil), Blake Bortles, etc.

 

Luck and Wilson were drafted the same year, as well as RG3.  I think you're right, Wilson went in the 3rd round.  I think he was probably referring to these players accomplishments so far, not playing styles since these are all types of QB's.  That being said, Luck and Wilson were the best 2 QB's from their draft, and on this list, so he deserves a mention.

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19 minutes ago, BlueCrew48 said:

I was actually referring to the comparison of Luck to his peers in the above post:

 

Ahhh, I see now.  Wilson was actually very high on many draft boards by grade/skill alone, but then was moved down predominantly because of 1 thing... his height (5'11"); which was considered at 'thing' at the time.  If Wilson was 6'3" and 220, I have little doubt he would have went (early) round 1 as well.  As it was,  Drew Brees was the outlier, Wilson was still an unknown risk, despite exceptional skill/grade.  Because of those two, and the influx of Air Raid and RPO elements into the Pro game, Kyler Murray wasn't penalized because of his height (at least by Arizona / Kingsbury) this draft.

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4 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Ahhh, I see now.  Wilson was actually very high on many draft boards by grade/skill alone, but then was moved down predominantly because of 1 thing... his height (5'11"); which was considered at 'thing' at the time.  If Wilson was 6'3" and 220, I have little doubt he would have went (early) round 1 as well.  As it was,  Drew Brees was the outlier, Wilson was still an unknown risk, despite exceptional skill/grade.  Because of those two, and the influx of Air Raid and RPO elements into the Pro game, Kyler Murray wasn't penalized because of his height (at least by Arizona / Kingsbury) this draft.

 

Wilson is definitely the easiest comparison to make to Murray.  And it's because of Russell's success that Murray wasnt penalized for his height.  Had there never been a Russell Wilson, it's likely that Murray would've fallen to the 2nd or later rounds.  And it sounded like he wouldnt even be a football player had there been a chance of that happening.  Wonder if he has ever thanked Russell?

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