[Rapoport] Gruden and Mayock sent all their scouts home one week before the draft. Belief is they didn't know who is trustworthy

[stitches]

 

 

wth? I must have said that at least a couple more times here but I'm so damn happy it's Ballard and Reich running the show with the Colts and not Gruden... 

[Coltsfan66]

10 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

wth? I must have said that at least a couple more times here but I'm so damn happy it's Ballard and Reich running the show with the Colts and not Gruden... 

I agree, it seems as if Indy dodged a huge bullet!

[ColtV]

What could happen that would cause this kind of paranoia? Do they think that some scouts are working for the opposition, or deliberately trying to tank player ratings? None of this makes sense...even for the Raiders

[PeterBowman]

Raiders gonna Raider

[crazycolt1]

20 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

Raiders gonna Raider

Yep, and Gruden gonna be Gruden.

Maybe Gruden and Mayock think they can draft without the scouting staff?

Lots of scenarios in this bonfire.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

The Raiders War Room:

 

[PeterBowman]

18 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yep, and Gruden gonna be Gruden.

Maybe Gruden and Mayock think they can draft without the scouting staff?

Lots of scenarios in this bonfire.

Yep.... I'd love to hear the whole story on this....me thinks there will be an entire new scouting department next year. 

[chad72]

4 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

The Raiders War Room:

 

 

Classic!!! I loved this movie - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. 

[Yoshinator]

Raiders could theoretically blow this with all that draft capital. This makes me laugh! 

[stitches]

 

[21isSuperman]

Just now, stitches said:

 

I just watched episode 3 of the With The Next Pick series on Colts.com and it seems like our front office does things very differently.  It looked like all the scouts are there to see the board

[chad72]

1 minute ago, 21isSuperman said:

I just watched episode 3 of the With The Next Pick series on Colts.com and it seems like our front office does things very differently.  It looked like all the scouts are there to see the board

 

Trust is a big part of top-down success, IMO. Letting the scouts see the fruits of their labor materialize on labor day, even if it is Ballard making the final calls, would be very gratifying from a job satisfaction point of view. 

[Superman]

Mayock might know that certain people in their operation are giving information to NFL Network people. Some of them might have been giving him information at this time last year. 

 

It's not uncommon for new GMs to revamp their scouting staff right after the draft. I bet that's on the way for the Raiders. So while this kind of seems bizarre, it might not necessarily indicate that they intend to kick everyone out of the draft room every year. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Bull doody. I believe this is an article to raise issues where there really are none.  How Do I Know?  Not more than 2 hours ago at 12:05 pm on 4/19/2019, I heard Mark Dominik explain what goes on at this juncture before the draft.  I'll try to quote him-

 

"This is a big time. You are trying to send your area scouts out the door, fly them home, give them a few days to regroup, rethink and come back with any other questions. Now what you're doing (GM) is sitting with your head coach, your (Scouting) director and you are on the phone... A Lot!"

 

So in 2002, he was Scouting director for Tampa Bay.  Who was the Head Coach of the Bucs that season?  Jon Gruden.  Who was the GM (Dominik didn't get Bucs GM job until 2013 I believe), Rich McKay.

 

So Jon Gruden, Mike Mayock and possibly their Scouting director are sending the area scouts home for a little R&R and is not anything new. Jon did it in the 2000's with the Bucs, he's doing it again with the Raiders. Nothing to see IMHO.

 

And if anybody has Sirius XM, listen to the beginning of the Blitz show from earlier today on NFL Radio, SiriusXM channel 88.  You'll hear him lay this out how they did/do it. And he wasn't even referring to the Raiders.  I heard him in the car, did not see the thread about Raiders sending theirs home until I got home.

[Superman]

 

[Superman]

BTW, both sides of this can be true. While it appears to be typical for some teams to send the scouts home and retrench to finalize the board, it could also be that Mayock and Gruden don't trust someone who has been in the room. Rapoport's initial tweet said the scouts are NOT expected to return before the draft, which may or may not be true.

 

Speaking of Rapoport, I heard a podcast recently that shed some interesting light on how he sources and reports information. Long story short, I take what he says with a grain of salt anymore. There might be more spin than fact in some of his reports.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

 

That shakeup could very well be happening down the road.  But it has little to nothing to do with sending the scouts home for a few days here before the draft. Their work is essentially done.  The GM, HC, and Scouting Director are calling other teams and setting up those trade up/trade down possibilities we heard Ballard discuss in the Colts little snippet, prepare for all scenarios, discuss them. Not just internal either.  Discuss general (non specific) situations with other teams too.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

But it has little to nothing to do with sending the scouts home for a few days here before the draft.

 

It might. Both angles can be true. But I agree that this is probably being sensationalized.

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It might. Both angles can be true. But I agree that this is probably being sensationalized.

 

I agreed and said a shakeup may occur, but they really are not needed much right now. 
Maybe they are getting 2 birds with one stone though, but those scouts would be being shooed out onto airplanes and sent home for a few days, even if there is no major scouting shakeup after the draft.

 

BTW, wasn't 2002 Jon Gruden's first year as HC with Tampa when they did this same thing?  I wonder if they had a scouting change afterwards there too.  Nevertheless, the tradition continued all the way through Dominik's term as GM there.

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I agreed and said a shakeup may occur, but they really are not needed much right now. 
Maybe they are getting 2 birds with one stone though, but those scouts would be being shooed out onto airplanes and sent home for a few days, even if there is no major scouting shakeup after the draft.

 

BTW, wasn't 2002 Jon Gruden's first year as HC with Tampa when they did this same thing?  I wonder if they had a scouting change afterwards there too.  Nevertheless, the tradition continued all the way through Dominik's term as GM there.

 

Dominik was with the Bucs from '97 to '08, and worked with Rich McKay. So if Dominik did this during his career, there's a good chance this is something they did together with Gruden during his Bucs tenure.

[crazycolt1]

Could be Rapoport was trying to be the first one to report this.

It could be something as simple as Gruden sending the scouts home for much needed rest?

The way Rapopord worded it makes it more sensational?

[CoachLite]

44 minutes ago, Superman said:

Mayock might know that certain people in their operation are giving information to NFL Network people. Some of them might have been giving him information at this time last year. 

 

It's not uncommon for new GMs to revamp their scouting staff right after the draft. I bet that's on the way for the Raiders. So while this kind of seems bizarre, it might not necessarily indicate that they intend to kick everyone out of the draft room every year. 

This may not be a "trust issue" so much as differences in talent evaluations according to a mismatched rubric. Of course, this is boring to conspiracy theorists, but probably more realistic.

[ColtsBlueFL]

45 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Dominik was with the Bucs from '97 to '08, and worked with Rich McKay. So if Dominik did this during his career, there's a good chance this is something they did together with Gruden during his Bucs tenure.

 

Yes, as scouting director, this I know and mentioned it earlier. He was Bucs GM from 2009 - 2013 as well. But, did they do this ritual even before (with Dungy) Jon Gruden got there, or was it when he replaced Tony?  I know Rich McKay, Bruce Allen,  and Mark Dominik all continued it through at least 2013 though, even after Gruden was let go.

[hoosierhawk]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

 

 

wth? I must have said that at least a couple more times here but I'm so damn happy it's Ballard and Reich running the show with the Colts and not Gruden... 

Irregardless of why this is happening, I agree with Stitches in that I am sooo happy Gruden is 2000+ miles from Indy and has nothing to do with the Colts.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Speaking of Rapoport, I heard a podcast recently that shed some interesting light on how he sources and reports information. Long story short, I take what he says with a grain of salt anymore. There might be more spin than fact in some of his reports.

 

Would you care to elaborate a bit on that, Super?! 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, hoosierhawk said:

Irregardless of why this is happening, I agree with Stitches in that I am sooo happy Gruden is 2000+ miles from Indy and has nothing to do with the Colts.

[oldunclemark]

4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Could be Rapoport was trying to be the first one to report this.

It could be something as simple as Gruden sending the scouts home for much needed rest?

The way Rapopord worded it makes it more sensational?

Yes.

This does not sound odd to me.

All the pre-draft work is done by now. The GM makes the picks, right?

[Superman]

3 hours ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

 

Would you care to elaborate a bit on that, Super?! 

 

It was Adam Lefkoe with Rand Getlin, former NFL Network reporter. Getlin talked about how NFL Network at times acts as a shill for the NFL with their reporting, and how Rapoport was put in position to be their main mouthpiece. Getlin says he was supposed to be Rapoport's primary competition, but the network gave Rapoport favorable treatment and credited him with stories and scoops that other people, including Getlin worked on and scored.

 

One of things he said about the network people is that they would instruct their reporters to use verbiage that was pro-NFL / pro-owners. As an example, Getlin would report 'Player X earned a $20m contract,' and he was told to never say the player earned their contract, but to say the team gave them said contract. 

 

Getlin came across as sincere, but hardheaded and stubborn and a little full of himself. But very believable. And the idea that Rapoport is more of a company man than a reporter wasn't a new idea to me, so maybe it was a case of some confirmation bias on my part. But I've heard/read other things over the years about Rapoport, along with my own impression of his reporting, that he's not all that reputable and reliable, and tends to sensationalize at times.

 

All JMO, from rumors and impressions.

[Coltsfan66]

6 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

The Raiders War Room:

 

The good, the bad, and the ugly...plus a cat!

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

Yes.

This does not sound odd to me.

All the pre-draft work is done by now. The GM makes the picks, right?

That is kinda what I come up with after thinking about it for a bit.

Especially after reading how things were done when Gruden was at Tampa Bay.

This is something I never really thought about before.

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, Coltsfan66 said:

The good, the bad, and the ugly...plus a cat!

 

 

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Could be Rapoport was trying to be the first one to report this.

It could be something as simple as Gruden sending the scouts home for much needed rest?

The way Rapopord worded it makes it more sensational?

 

Yes, I said as much earlier in this thread...

 

"So Jon Gruden, Mike Mayock and possibly their Scouting director are sending the area scouts home for a little R&R and is not anything new. Jon did it in the 2000's with the Bucs, he's doing it again with the Raiders."

[ColtsBlueFL]

23 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I just watched episode 3 of the With The Next Pick series on Colts.com and it seems like our front office does things very differently.  It looked like all the scouts are there to see the board

 

The scouts from every team is there, up until the weekend before the draft.  Then I hear most teams send the Area Scouts home... at least for a few days.  The GM, HC, and Director(s) {Scouting/Personnel} tweak the board at that time and  setup up possible trade deals.  It may be, in many cases I hear that when the scouts return, they won't get in to see the {updated} board(s) until draft day itself.

 

17 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Yes.

This does not sound odd to me.

All the pre-draft work is done by now. The GM makes the picks, right?

 

The bulk of the heavy lifting is.  The big kahuna's can then tweak it right up until the draft itself.

 

[DougDew]

I would think that by this time most of the work done by scouts is probably finished.  I could see the decision makers not wanting a bunch of conflicting thoughts and opinions being thrown about as they get closer to the draft.  There is a time for that, and there is time to process the info the scouts gathered.  

 

I'm sure that Gruden and Mayock rely upon and value the scouts input, but now is the point in time they put it to use and organize it onto a board.  They don't need scouts in the room to do that.

 

Nothing wrong with this style at all, IMO.  If Ballard wants everybody in the room, chatter and noise and to ask last minute questions, maybe that's a style that works for him.

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

I would think that by this time most of the work done by scouts is probably finished.  I could see the decision makers not wanting a bunch of conflicting thoughts and opinions being thrown about as they get closer to the draft.  There is a time for that, and there is time to process the info the scouts gathered.  

 

I'm sure that Gruden and Mayock rely upon and value the scouts input, but now is the point in time they put it to use and organize it onto a board.  They don't need scouts in the room to do that.

 

Nothing wrong with this style at all, IMO.  If Ballard wants everybody in the room, chatter and noise and to ask last minute questions, maybe that's a style that works for him.

 

This is right.  In fact, I'd keep the scouts out of the draft room until day 3.  That is when their knowledge comes back into play on those lesser known guys.  They can answer last minute questions for those all important later round selections, if needed.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

This is right.  In fact, I'd keep the scouts out of the draft room until day 3.  That is when their knowledge comes back into play on those lesser known guys.  They can answer last minute questions for those all important later round selections, if needed.

Yes, and maybe the lack of trust is a belief there is a mole in the scouting staff that would give insight to the media about the board.

 

The media tends to follow a narrative, which then gets rolling into a larger critical mass.  For a while now, the narrative has been that Gruden is crazy and causing dysfunction, so that's the flavor with which everything will be presented.

 

BTW, with all of his "crazy" moves, he's still got a near-franchise QB and three 1st round picks this year.  Those moves have resulted in pretty decent results, IMO.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes, and maybe the lack of trust is a belief there is a mole in the scouting staff that would give insight to the media about the board.

 

Did you see that recent tweet by Gil Brandt about feeding a scout they didn't trust a fake board?

 

Crazy.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Did you see that recent tweet by Gil Brandt about feeding a scout they didn't trust a fake board?

 

Crazy.

Its why this PC stuff, "empowering" people at every level in the organization to treat them like equals, moving businesses away from vertical management to more horizontal looking structure, is a bunch of nonsense.  Some people may have their own personal agenda that conflicts with the success of the organization they happen to be currently working for.

 

Everybody has a job to do.  Its not the scouts job to have access to a draft board.  JMO of course.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Everybody has a job to do.

 

I guess part of the GMs job is to find out who is trustworthy.

 

I love that line from Gil Brandt.  "Hook, line, stinker." 

 

That scout was climbing the ladder and found himself on a chute. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

6 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Did you see that recent tweet by Gil Brandt about feeding a scout they didn't trust a fake board?

 

Crazy.

 

Gil has great stories!  I'm not so sure that wasn't a tactic to get other teams to bite on a player they really have no interest in so they can get another player to slide through. Here's another-

 

*Jerry Jones was so intrigued by Brandt's draft history lessons, he asked the Cowboys' original personnel guru if he'd ever deviated from his board.

 

"Once," Brandt said.

 

That would have been the 1979 draft, when the Cowboys were set to take a quarterback from Notre Dame in the third round. Tom Landry reminded everyone that they already had three quarterbacks -- Roger Staubach, Danny White and Glenn Carano -- and there was no room for a fourth. So instead they selected Doug Cosbie, a tight end.

"Played pretty good for us," Brandt added, diplomatically, "but he wasn't Joe Montana."