Non-QB Players forum fans do not want at No.26

[MikeCurtis]

9 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

 

Frank said he wants to be a top 5 running team on offense.    They have not BSd any of us on this.   That is why they built the % out of that Oline    

 

Thats why I wouldnt be surprised with another OL pick  in round 2

 

Keep your eye on Lindstrom in the second round

[rock8591]

39 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Agree

 

But..... he isnt going to be there (IMHO)

 

 

Agreed. That'd be like Rob Gronkowski being available in the 4-6th round.

[DerekDiggler]

7 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Based on snap counts last year.

TE was 1.29, WR 2.56, RB 1.03

So we ran 2 TE sets a little less than a 3rd of the time (likely a lot on early running downs or RZ), 3 WR sets more than half the time, and used only one RB except for a few instances. 

 

A few things to ponder.... How sure are you that DF was signed assumed to be full time starter? By most reports, Cain had locked down the #2 spot last year before he got injured. Do you think Cain was told DF was signed to be the starter? Might he have been signed to provide depth to the unit while Cain gets his form back? Or even while a drafted WR comes on....

 

Also, as discussed, DF's most successful routes were short to intermediate middle type routes (not X WR routes). Not necessarily perimeter or deep. Do you think the coaches will force fit him into areas where he's had the least success? It's also been discussed that he might find more success as a big or bully slot?

 

In terms of stretching the field... If you've read up on Reich's offense, there is a lot of talk about "4 vert" or K gun (going back to his own QB days). Yes there is a lot of up tempo quick hits, but there is supposed to be a stretch element too. It's supposed to be multiple formations, multiple plays, all up tempo. 4 vert is just what it sounds like. 4 players going vertical. Not just all short to intermediate. Luck can throw every ball. Not using his vertical talents would be a bit silly, no?

 

On the whole WR unit, we have literally only one proven guy and that's TY. Potential and talent are great words, but we have only TY that's proven. DF has had his ups and downs, and hopefully he gets it turned around. I love Cain, but he's rehabing and didn't exactly light the world on fire at Clemson. Both he and Renfrow were there in 16 and 17. Cain stayed about the same while Renfrow took a nice step forward.

 

All the other guys (Pascal, Johnson, Fountain) are projects that we hope might pan out. You mentioned Johnson, and I like his potential too, but he didn't do much at TX, and has been hurt 2 of his 3 NFL years. In short, based on last years stats, not one WR ranked inside the top 80 in yards other than Hilton. It's incredible what Luck did with all the moving parts last year, but he shouldn't have to work this hard. 

 

And you mentioned you'd take a RB early. If we're talking about proven, and also potential... When Mack came back in game 6 IIRC, we were a top 10 rushing team the rest of the year (I think if you normalize, Mack would have been 5th or 6th in yards). We also just drafted Hines who had a very good first year (700+ all purpose yards), and Wilkins who averaged 5.6 yards per carry in back up duty to Mack. Individually, that's much more proven than our WR corp. I would like to have a power back compliment over Williams, but that's in the middle to late rounds.

 

Not saying we will, or won't take a WR early, but every mock and "needs" board out there has WR in the top 2. Even Colts.com listed WR first in their post FA needs. Of course Ballard will do what he wants, but the overwhelming majority of "experts" out there are saying Indy needs to upgrade WR. 

I have no reason to not believe what Ballard openly says.     He has been about as honest in what he wants to do as he can be. 

 

Here he is talking about it on 1070   In the 13 NFL drafts he has been a part of he has only taken one receiver in the first two rounds and that was at pick 45 with Alshon Jeffery 

 

https://www.1070thefan.com/blogs/kevins-corner/colts-coverage/how-does-chris-ballard-view-colts-wide-receiver-need-2019

 

 

and here he is on the Pat McAfee show saying he is BPA and not a need guy.   Toward the end of the video 

 

 

 

[EastStreet]

49 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

I have no reason to not believe what Ballard openly says.     He has been about as honest in what he wants to do as he can be. 

 

Here he is talking about it on 1070   In the 13 NFL drafts he has been a part of he has only taken one receiver in the first two rounds and that was at pick 45 with Alshon Jeffery 

 

https://www.1070thefan.com/blogs/kevins-corner/colts-coverage/how-does-chris-ballard-view-colts-wide-receiver-need-2019

 

 

and here he is on the Pat McAfee show saying he is BPA and not a need guy.   Toward the end of the video 

 

 

 

A couple things to ponder.

 

In his 4 years with the Chiefs 2013-2016

-Dorsey was the GM calling the shots. Sure CB had input, but was not the final say.

-Dorsey was fired before 17 because he mismanaged things including the salary cap.. 

-Ballard was Dir of Player Personnel 13-14, then moved to Dir of Ops for 15-16.

-In those 4 years KC only had 5 combined 1st and 2nd round picks (3x1st, 2x2nd)

-With those 5 picks in 4 years he took OT, DE, CB, G, and DT in the first two rounds.

-While he was in KC, the O ranked 21st, 25th, 27th, and 20th. 

-When Dorsey left and Veach (was Dir of Player Personnel) took over, the O ranked 5th and 1st.

 

In his time with the Bears (2001-2012)

-11 of the 12 years he was SW Area Scout (not making draft decisions)

-His last year he was Director of Pro Scouting (responsible for FA, not college scouting)

-Chicago's O was pretty horrible in those days.

 

Point being, he's a new GM. I don't think we can necessarily assume he'll trend the same as Dorsey or Angelo (Bears GM). Again, not saying he will, or won't take a WR early. Just saying he's not in KC under Dorsey, or in Chicago under Angelo, and he has a true franchise QB for the first time in his career. He may do things a bit differently. I'd also bet that Irsay has a little say in draft strategy.

 

And what if BPA is a WR? It's very possible. 

[TheNextGM]

11 hours ago, Shepman said:

My opinion is if T J Hockenson is there you take him and run regardless it being TE.  He gives you line protection and a receiving threat.  It's like drafting two positions in one.

 

100%

but he’ll be long long long gone by 26

[IinD]

As long at it isn't a project player. Huge potential upside, but not quite ready yet.

 

They've gotta get a solid starter who will see the field and make an early difference.

 

A solid draft like last year will put us in a really good spot heading into January, if we make it of course.

[Stephen]

Colts one of three teams that worked out josh Jacobs in private. Hope someone else drafts him

[DerekDiggler]

9 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

A couple things to ponder.

 

In his 4 years with the Chiefs 2013-2016

-Dorsey was the GM calling the shots. Sure CB had input, but was not the final say.

-Dorsey was fired before 17 because he mismanaged things including the salary cap.. 

-Ballard was Dir of Player Personnel 13-14, then moved to Dir of Ops for 15-16.

-In those 4 years KC only had 5 combined 1st and 2nd round picks (3x1st, 2x2nd)

-With those 5 picks in 4 years he took OT, DE, CB, G, and DT in the first two rounds.

-While he was in KC, the O ranked 21st, 25th, 27th, and 20th. 

-When Dorsey left and Veach (was Dir of Player Personnel) took over, the O ranked 5th and 1st.

 

In his time with the Bears (2001-2012)

-11 of the 12 years he was SW Area Scout (not making draft decisions)

-His last year he was Director of Pro Scouting (responsible for FA, not college scouting)

-Chicago's O was pretty horrible in those days.

 

Point being, he's a new GM. I don't think we can necessarily assume he'll trend the same as Dorsey or Angelo (Bears GM). Again, not saying he will, or won't take a WR early. Just saying he's not in KC under Dorsey, or in Chicago under Angelo, and he has a true franchise QB for the first time in his career. He may do things a bit differently. I'd also bet that Irsay has a little say in draft strategy.

 

And what if BPA is a WR? It's very possible. 

Ballard’s own words 

 

“Would we love three great wideouts that everybody’s scared to death of? Absolutely,” Ballard says. “Who doesn’t? But I’m also realistic to know that offensively we’ve got a really good head coach, who also heads the offense with Nick (Sirianni), and we’ve got a really good offensive staff who figured ways to use the weapons we have. 

“You hear talk about wanting another wideout, but then we’ve got Eric Ebron to score 14 touchdowns. Not many 2 wideouts in the league score 14 touchdowns. That is an excellent job of coaching, that’s an excellent job by Eric Ebron. You’ve got to find places where you’re going to get that production from

 

 

Has Ballard ever lied about what he is looking for?

 

WR does not seem to be a priority.  He has confidence in the coaching staff.  He has confidence in Luck he has confidence in Frank and  in the game plan.   

 

Coaching means something.    And we have very good coaches now 

 

not taking a WR in the first 2 rounds.  I will all but guarantee it 

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

Ballard’s own words 

 

“Would we love three great wideouts that everybody’s scared to death of? Absolutely,” Ballard says. “Who doesn’t? But I’m also realistic to know that offensively we’ve got a really good head coach, who also heads the offense with Nick (Sirianni), and we’ve got a really good offensive staff who figured ways to use the weapons we have. 

“You hear talk about wanting another wideout, but then we’ve got Eric Ebron to score 14 touchdowns. Not many 2 wideouts in the league score 14 touchdowns. That is an excellent job of coaching, that’s an excellent job by Eric Ebron. You’ve got to find places where you’re going to get that production from

 

 

Has Ballard ever lied about what he is looking for?

 

WR does not seem to be a priority.  He has confidence in the coaching staff.  He has confidence in Luck he has confidence in Frank and  in the game plan.   

 

Coaching means something.    And we have very good coaches now 

 

not taking a WR in the first 2 rounds.  I will all but guarantee it 

 

Well, like was discussed in a few other threads, he's said a lot of contradictory things. Just today we were discussing how he talked about reaching for Smith last year because of the run on OLs. And we all know what he's said about BPA and not reaching....

 

Again, not saying he will or he won't draft a WR... but... If WR is not a priority, why'd he take two speed guys last year. Neither made an impact, so I'm sure he's not banking on either as sure fire bets this year. And he did say he'd absolutely love to have 3 great WRs. He still only has one. He just inferred 3 is not realistic. What does that say for 2? lol.

 

And I wouldn't expect him to say anything else about his coach. I wouldn't expect him to talk publicly about how anemic our O was against teams that doubled TY like KC, Buff, Jax, etc.. But I assure you he knows. I'm sure he also knows that Lucks yards/attempt also dipped back to rookie campaigns, and was one of the lowest in the top 10 or 12 QBs.  I'm sure he's discussed all of it with FR. I'm sure Luck's made his wishes known. And I'm sure Irsay has input to the draft plan. 

 

And honest Q... If we don't take a WR early, and we take a step back this year, or just stay anemic when TY is doubled, are we just going to say "well, we need more early D players, and WR isn't a priority" again?

[DerekDiggler]

3 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

 

Well, like was discussed in a few other threads, he's said a lot of contradictory things. Just today we were discussing how he talked about reaching for Smith last year because of the run on OLs. And we all know what he's said about BPA and not reaching....

 

Again, not saying he will or he won't draft a WR... but... If WR is not a priority, why'd he take two speed guys last year. Neither made an impact, so I'm sure he's not banking on either as sure fire bets this year. And he did say he'd absolutely love to have 3 great WRs. He still only has one. He just inferred 3 is not realistic. What does that say for 2? lol.

 

And I wouldn't expect him to say anything else about his coach. I wouldn't expect him to talk publicly about how anemic our O was against teams that doubled TY like KC, Buff, Jax, etc.. But I assure you he knows. I'm sure he also knows that Lucks yards/attempt also dipped back to rookie campaigns, and was one of the lowest in the top 10 or 12 QBs.  I'm sure he's discussed all of it with FR. I'm sure Luck's made his wishes known. And I'm sure Irsay has input to the draft plan. 

 

And honest Q... If we don't take a WR early, and we take a step back this year, or just stay anemic when TY is doubled, are we just going to say "well, we need more early D players, and WR isn't a priority" again?

I’m saying WR has been addressed in FA and with last yrs draft.    WR don’t develop as quick as you might think these days.  Due to stupid college offenses.  

 

Coaching is a real thing.   There is no sense drafting a player (Cain) amd then dismissing him after one yr without seeing what he is capable of   Let’s say we stay Status Quo and Luck amd crew have the same success as last yr.   BUT we have a better D     We advance farther.  Even SB farther.  

 

I get it you are an offensive guy. And want a WR. 

 

Defense wins in this league.   Running the call wins in this league.  

 

When was was the last team with a big time WR won the SB?   

 

Because the Pats and Eagles didn’t have one

 

Pats win by controlling  the trenches.  Not with high powered WRs 

 

 

[EastStreet]

41 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

I’m saying WR has been addressed in FA and with last yrs draft.    WR don’t develop as quick as you might think these days.  Due to stupid college offenses.  

Guess who really did well their rookie season last year. The rookie WR that outgained Funchess on the Panthers by 200+ yards.

 

Quote

Coaching is a real thing.   There is no sense drafting a player (Cain) amd then dismissing him after one yr without seeing what he is capable of   Let’s say we stay Status Quo and Luck amd crew have the same success as last yr.   BUT we have a better D     We advance farther.  Even SB farther

.Who said anything about dismissing him. I love Cain. I'm just not going to put my eggs in a basket this year for a rookie who is also coming back from injury. 

 

Quote

I get it you are an offensive guy. And want a WR. 

actually I'm not an O guy. i just see WR as a need. i've said numerous times I want and iDL first, then a WR and S in the next 2 picks. I don't care the order. that's 2 of 3 D.

 

Quote

Defense wins in this league.

  we had a top 10ish D last year. We added a very good DE. We're likely to add a 1st round iDL. We're doing the right things.

 

Quote

Running the call wins in this league.

 normalized, Mack would have been top 5 or 6 had he not missed the early game. our rookie APB had almost 750 all purpose yards. Wilkins averaged 5.6 yards a carry backing up Mack. That's pretty good already. All we need is a late round power back to replace Williams.

 

Quote

When was was the last team with a big time WR won the SB?  Because the Pats and Eagles didn’t have one. Pats win by controlling  the trenches.  Not with high powered WRs

i already compared both 18Pats and 17Eagles to the Colts receiving crew in other threads. Because I like you, I'll post quickly :-) in short form since I know it well. Forgive me if I'm off a bit here or there. Feel free to fact check. What you'll find is that it's crystal clear they had superior talent receiving. 

 

Edleman had 850 yards in only 12 games. Gordon, 700+ in only 11. Their WR3 Hogan had 500+. The Colts only had one WR over 500 yards compared to their 3 who had major injury down time. Now add in a TE/Gronk who had around 700 with his injuries, and a back who caught 750 yards (300+ more than Hines). That's 5 O skill players with over 500 yards. Again, crystal clear even with all the injuries they had. And guess what, NE held KC to 31 just like we did. The difference was though, they could score/throw on KC when we could not. Can you explain this?

 

The Eagles are similar. Feel free to look at their stats. They had 2 WRs over 500 vs our 1, and a TE (Ertz) that had more yards than Ebron. And that was with a back up QB in the playoffs. They outscored the Pats.... Put 41 on the board I believe. 

 

 

[NDcolt]

21 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Guess who really did well their rookie season last year. The rookie WR that outgained Funchess on the Panthers by 200+ yards.

 

.Who said anything about dismissing him. I love Cain. I'm just not going to put my eggs in a basket this year for a rookie who is also coming back from injury. 

 

actually I'm not an O guy. i just see WR as a need. i've said numerous times I want and iDL first, then a WR and S in the next 2 picks. I don't care the order. that's 2 of 3 D.

 

  we had a top 10ish D last year. We added a very good DE. We're likely to add a 1st round iDL. We're doing the right things.

 

 normalized, Mack would have been top 5 or 6 had he not missed the early game. our rookie APB had almost 750 all purpose yards. Wilkins averaged 5.6 yards a carry backing up Mack. That's pretty good already. All we need is a late round power back to replace Williams.

 

i already compared both 18Pats and 17Eagles to the Colts receiving crew in other threads. Because I like you, I'll post quickly :-) in short form since I know it well. Forgive me if I'm off a bit here or there. Feel free to fact check. What you'll find is that it's crystal clear they had superior talent receiving. 

 

Edleman had 850 yards in only 12 games. Gordon, 700+ in only 11. Their WR3 Hogan had 500+. The Colts only had one WR over 500 yards compared to their 3 who had major injury down time. Now add in a TE/Gronk who had around 700 with his injuries, and a back who caught 750 yards (300+ more than Hines). That's 5 O skill players with over 500 yards. Again, crystal clear even with all the injuries they had. And guess what, NE held KC to 31 just like we did. The difference was though, they could score/throw on KC when we could not. Can you explain this?

 

The Eagles are similar. Feel free to look at their stats. They had 2 WRs over 500 vs our 1, and a TE (Ertz) that had more yards than Ebron. And that was with a back up QB in the playoffs. They outscored the Pats.... Put 41 on the board I believe. 

 

 

Amen, Colts don’t stack up to other ELITES due to lack of playmakers and WR is BIGGEST deficiency!  DK MET has bust but vision Kneal opp TY?  KNeal is like a SS, total athlete and best player on field!  Colts O becomes Elite w/ serious threat opp TY, Justin ask Marvin.

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

Amen, Colts don’t stack up to other ELITES due to lack of playmakers and WR is BIGGEST deficiency!  DK MET has bust but vision Kneal opp TY?  KNeal is like a SS, total athlete and best player on field!  Colts O becomes Elite w/ serious threat opp TY, Justin ask Marvin.

We were top 10ish in both O and D last year. I recognize the need to improve both.

-our biggest problem on D was stopping the pass (because we couldn't get to the QB).

-our biggest problem on O was we were anemic when teams doubled TY. We have no legit X and/or no legit vertical option other than TY

-we have addressed DE with a proven guy like Houston, and should go iDL with the 26

-we have not addressed WR. we signed DF to a one year deal. he's not consistent, he's not a well rounded X, and he's not a vertical threat. I do think he'll be good in the slot, but that doesn't solve our deficiencies. he'll be great in the RZ, but we need a well rounded guy between the 20s. He's too similar to Ebron. IMO, he should have never switched from TE in college. He would have been a better, and more well rounded TE than WR. 

 

I'm all for improving both. If you look at the numbers, and look at comparative games (Indy vs KC, Pats vs KC, Indy vs other top passing Ds), it's pretty clear.

 

-Our OL was top 10 by the end of the year. They'll improve in year 2 with chemistry and having their 2 rookies have a full off season. We don't need to swing for the fences. We're already projected to be top 5 in 2019. Take an OT mid or late if you have doubts about AC.

 

-DL is improved with Houston, but will also improve all around just having Houston garner attention. Turay should be improved in his second year. If we get a decent iDL in the 1st, that up the game again exponentially.

 

-DBs will benefit from the addition of Houston, Turay's improvement, and the addition of an iDL. S is more of an injury issue than a talent issue, and we signed another S (Kendrick) in FA. I'm fine with adding one though in the second. CB is fine with the scheme we play. 

 

-LB is fine, with DL at the core. Walker should improve. LB is a devalued position and we could easily get a decent guy in the 3rd or 4th. 

 

-We spent more in 2018 on TE than any other team. If Doyle is back, we don't need another. If he struggles this year, we make TE a priority in round 1 or 2 of next year while resigning Ebron.

[stitches]

Josh Jacobs is the clearcut winner on this list for me. I'd be alright with every other player on the list. 

[Coltscrazy]

On 4/20/2019 at 7:52 AM, BOTT said:

Dexter Lawrence should be on the list.

Why is everyone mocking us a fatty with no history of providing a pass rush.  Do they even know what defense we run?

[BigQungus]

On 4/20/2019 at 10:42 PM, DerekDiggler said:

So the Colts use a lot of 12 personnel on offense.    So that’s 

 

TY

Funchess

Doyle

Ebron/ or Other blocking TE 

Mack/Hines 

 

where red is a WR going to step in and push one of these guys out?    Funchess was signed as a starter.  Anyone that doesn’t understand that is clueless

 

in the wings there is Caine, Johnson, Rogers Pascal amd hopefully Inman      Again where is the immediate upgrade?   As a back up? Seriously?

 

i have heard a ton of arguments about stretching the field.   I don’t get it.    We don’t run a down the field passing attach anymore     It’s quick release and 5-10 yds at a time.    

 

The guys currently on the on the roster are good enough to be very good in this offense   They might just need another yr of coaching.    All will improve.   

 

Watch out for Johnson.   He might very well be a huge surprise this yr and Rogers also.   And who knows what Cain can bring.   Hopefully a lot     

 

Frank said he wants to be a top 5 running team on offense.    They have not BSd any of us on this.   That is why they built the % out of that Oline    

 

Coaching up the WRs we have with the addition of Funchess and basically a free draft pick in Cain is a lot added to this passing attach 

 

TBH if I were drafting only for need I would take an OT and a RB before I took a WR with this group 

 

We run more 12 than pretty much anyone else in the league, but that's not the only thing we run. 11 is typically seen as the base package, in which case we can plug him in there. And anyways, there's no guarantee Funchess will stay beyond this year, although I hope he does if he breaks out. 

 

From a scheme standpoint, Reich always has said that he wants to be versatile and not just stick to one scheme. He wants us to be able to switch from a Smashmouth offense to an up-tempo, quick-rhythm offense to a vertical offense. 

 

The Funchess signing allowed us some draft flexibility and allows us to survive even if we don't get a WR at all. But we don't by any means have a completely full WR corp. All it takes is a few injuries.

 

At any rate, what would getting another RB do? We already have 3 of them, and Mack is our definite leader. We really have no reason to use a 1st round pick on a RB. I'm okay with signing Ajayi or Spencer Ware, but using a first round pick on an RB when we already have some? I see no reason to do that.

 

And anyways, it's pretty hypocritical (I don't know if this applies to you directly) for people to say that we have a really solid WR corp and that we have no use for another one as a reason why we shouldn't draft Metcalf, and then turn around and say that we should draft Hollywood Brown or someone else.

[shasta519]

9 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Guess who really did well their rookie season last year. The rookie WR that outgained Funchess on the Panthers by 200+ yards.

 

.Who said anything about dismissing him. I love Cain. I'm just not going to put my eggs in a basket this year for a rookie who is also coming back from injury. 

 

actually I'm not an O guy. i just see WR as a need. i've said numerous times I want and iDL first, then a WR and S in the next 2 picks. I don't care the order. that's 2 of 3 D.

 

  we had a top 10ish D last year. We added a very good DE. We're likely to add a 1st round iDL. We're doing the right things.

 

 normalized, Mack would have been top 5 or 6 had he not missed the early game. our rookie APB had almost 750 all purpose yards. Wilkins averaged 5.6 yards a carry backing up Mack. That's pretty good already. All we need is a late round power back to replace Williams.

 

i already compared both 18Pats and 17Eagles to the Colts receiving crew in other threads. Because I like you, I'll post quickly :-) in short form since I know it well. Forgive me if I'm off a bit here or there. Feel free to fact check. What you'll find is that it's crystal clear they had superior talent receiving. 

 

Edleman had 850 yards in only 12 games. Gordon, 700+ in only 11. Their WR3 Hogan had 500+. The Colts only had one WR over 500 yards compared to their 3 who had major injury down time. Now add in a TE/Gronk who had around 700 with his injuries, and a back who caught 750 yards (300+ more than Hines). That's 5 O skill players with over 500 yards. Again, crystal clear even with all the injuries they had. And guess what, NE held KC to 31 just like we did. The difference was though, they could score/throw on KC when we could not. Can you explain this?

 

The Eagles are similar. Feel free to look at their stats. They had 2 WRs over 500 vs our 1, and a TE (Ertz) that had more yards than Ebron. And that was with a back up QB in the playoffs. They outscored the Pats.... Put 41 on the board I believe. 

 

 

 

Right. NE traded a 1st round pick for Cooks the year they played PHI as well. 

 

PHI had a 1st round WR, a top 3 TE in the NFL...and brought in Alshon...a legit 20 NFL WR...to create a legit trio of weapons. They also had Torrey Smith to stretch the field. And with DJax this offseason, they have now added a deep threat (Smith, Wallace and DJax) three years in a row. Stretching the field is definitely important to PHI.

 

I think PHI and NE value offense very highly.

[chad72]

10 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

And guess what, NE held KC to 31 just like we did. The difference was though, they could score/throw on KC when we could not. Can you explain this?

 

 

The way those 31 points were obtained was the big difference for KC. Against us, they passed underneath at will and went up 14-0 just like that. NE on the other hand stifled them in the first half and kept them scoreless. NE controlled tempo with their run game, we could not. That was the main difference. Once NE got the run game going, the coverages were simpler to decipher with 1-on-1s across the board for NE. 

 

Yes, they did have underneath guys like Edelman and a beast like Gronk separate and catch more, that was the difference from us. Our underneath guys could not separate even if KC played them 1-on-1. Those underneath guys can be found on Day 2. 

 

In other words, I somewhat agree with you that we need a WR on Day 2, either Round 2 or 3 that can separate well. We just don't need that "alpha" WR necessarily. 

[chad72]

45 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Right. NE traded a 1st round pick for Cooks the year they played PHI as well. 

 

PHI had a 1st round WR, a top 3 TE in the NFL...and brought in Alshon...a legit 20 NFL WR...to create a legit trio of weapons. They also had Torrey Smith to stretch the field. And with DJax this offseason, they have now added a deep threat (Smith, Wallace and DJax) three years in a row. Stretching the field is definitely important to PHI.

 

I think PHI and NE value offense very highly.

 

Brandin Cooks, it takes time to have his routes come open. That is why both the Saints and the Patriots got rid of him, IMO. Now he is the Rams problem. If your OL cannot protect for 4 seconds (as opposed to a typical 3 seconds), his effectiveness is reduced, IMO.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

Brandin Cooks, it takes time to have his routes come open. That is why both the Saints and the Patriots got rid of him, IMO. Now he is the Rams problem. If your OL cannot protect for 4 seconds (as opposed to a typical 3 seconds), his effectiveness is reduced, IMO.

 

I mean...it's hard to argue with the career results thus far...but I get what you are saying. Cooks has always been an interesting WR to me.

 

I think a big part of why NE didn't keep him was also cost. They didn't value him as a WR1, which is what he was going to cost to keep him. Not only that, Brady is not a good deep ball thrower, which negates some of Cooks' value.

 

But really my point was that NE has shown that they value playmakers in the passing game. I hope Ballard addresses WR early. Doesn't have to be a 1st...unless it's clearly BPA.

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

But really my point was that NE has shown that they value playmakers in the passing game. I hope Ballard addresses WR early. Doesn't have to be a 1st...unless it's clearly BPA.

 

Yes, I agree. 

 

Most of their marquee WRs that they valued have come through free agency as opposed to the draft lately - Wes Welker from Dolphins, Randy Moss from Raiders, Chris Hogan from Bills, and even Brandin Cooks from Saints, and even Dorsett from Colts. It makes up for the fact that they do not devote too much draft resources to the WR position early on but is easily missed by the casual fan. Chad Jackson and Deion Branch have been their last Round 2 WRs from the draft.

 

Draft wise, they have gotten more RBs in the first 2 rounds than WRs, and they got Gronk at the top of Round 2. 

[shasta519]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Yes, I agree. 

 

Most of their marquee WRs that they valued have come through free agency as opposed to the draft lately - Wes Welker from Dolphins, Randy Moss from Raiders, Chris Hogan from Bills, and even Brandin Cooks from Saints, and even Dorsett from Colts. It makes up for the fact that they do not devote too much draft resources to the WR position early on but is easily missed by the casual fan. Chad Jackson and Deion Branch have been their last Round 2 WRs from the draft.

 

Draft wise, they have gotten more RBs in the first 2 rounds than WRs, and they got Gronk at the top of Round 2. 

 

Yep. They aren't some team that has made their offense by drafting late-round WRs...that seems to be a common misconception. If not for Edelman, they wouldn't have a single legit WR from the draft over the past decade. Aaron Dobson (was actually the last 2nd round pick I believe), Malcolm Mitchell, Josh Boyce, Taylor Price, Brandon Tate, Jeremy Ebert (who), Jeremy Gallon (who)...the list goes on. We will see what Berrios does...if he can get on the field this year. But it's a very weak list (likely because most of those guys were not early picks).

 

They typically bring in WRs from other team. But Luck is 10+ years younger than Brady...so he needs WRs that will be here a while. If you think about it from an age standpoint, Luck is where Brady was back in 2017 (age 30). At that point, NE went out and got Moss, an elite WR. They traded a 2nd round pick for Welker. And then drafted 4 WRs over the next three years and a 2nd round TE. Then once Brady's arm got weaker and he got more immobile, they added in RBs that catch passes to take pressure off Brady.

 

 

[DerekDiggler]

5 hours ago, BigQungus said:

 

We run more 12 than pretty much anyone else in the league, but that's not the only thing we run. 11 is typically seen as the base package, in which case we can plug him in there. And anyways, there's no guarantee Funchess will stay beyond this year, although I hope he does if he breaks out. 

 

From a scheme standpoint, Reich always has said that he wants to be versatile and not just stick to one scheme. He wants us to be able to switch from a Smashmouth offense to an up-tempo, quick-rhythm offense to a vertical offense. 

 

The Funchess signing allowed us some draft flexibility and allows us to survive even if we don't get a WR at all. But we don't by any means have a completely full WR corp. All it takes is a few injuries.

 

At any rate, what would getting another RB do? We already have 3 of them, and Mack is our definite leader. We really have no reason to use a 1st round pick on a RB. I'm okay with signing Ajayi or Spencer Ware, but using a first round pick on an RB when we already have some? I see no reason to do that.

 

And anyways, it's pretty hypocritical (I don't know if this applies to you directly) for people to say that we have a really solid WR corp and that we have no use for another one as a reason why we shouldn't draft Metcalf, and then turn around and say that we should draft Hollywood Brown or someone else.

Oh.  Sorry.  No RB in the 1st.    Not what I meant.    

[AZColt11]

The more I think about this, the more I feel the Colts may try to trade back.  Ballard said himself there are only about 8 players they would consider in the 1st, and my bet is most or all will be gone by 26.  This is an overall weak class compared to last year except the DL.  

 

Hopefully get an extra 2nd out of the deal!

[Coltscrazy]

It is kinda hard to get excited about this class.  Make that extra 2nd a future pick.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 4/19/2019 at 5:07 PM, cbear said:

My disappointment level would fluctuate based on some of these names, but I would flat out jump off my balcony if we took a TE at 26.

 

With no TEs under contract beyond the 2019 season, TE is most definitely a need, albeit more of an under the radar need than a glaring one. But if a guy like Hockensen is there, & all of the DL/EDGE guys that the Colts have 1st round grades on are gone, then I have zero issues taking a TE.

[Peterk2011]

Metcalf. Same reason. He may become the next Randy Moss, but I just don't see how. I don't want us to take the risk with him. 

 

Jeffrey Simmons on the other side is someone I would LOVE to see coming to Indy for either the #26 or #34. Yes, he will redshirt his first year, but the possible reward in the future worth it. And it's not like the Colts had 3-4 picks and taking Simmons would kinda "skip" this draft for us. The Colts would still have 8 picks, including a 1st rounder or an "almost" 1st rounder (if its the #34), so there would still be plenty of new guys to evaluate and talk about while Simmons rehabs.

[NDcolt]

23 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

We were top 10ish in both O and D last year. I recognize the need to improve both.

-our biggest problem on D was stopping the pass (because we couldn't get to the QB).

-our biggest problem on O was we were anemic when teams doubled TY. We have no legit X and/or no legit vertical option other than TY

-we have addressed DE with a proven guy like Houston, and should go iDL with the 26

-we have not addressed WR. we signed DF to a one year deal. he's not consistent, he's not a well rounded X, and he's not a vertical threat. I do think he'll be good in the slot, but that doesn't solve our deficiencies. he'll be great in the RZ, but we need a well rounded guy between the 20s. He's too similar to Ebron. IMO, he should have never switched from TE in college. He would have been a better, and more well rounded TE than WR. 

 

I'm all for improving both. If you look at the numbers, and look at comparative games (Indy vs KC, Pats vs KC, Indy vs other top passing Ds), it's pretty clear.

 

-Our OL was top 10 by the end of the year. They'll improve in year 2 with chemistry and having their 2 rookies have a full off season. We don't need to swing for the fences. We're already projected to be top 5 in 2019. Take an OT mid or late if you have doubts about AC.

 

-DL is improved with Houston, but will also improve all around just having Houston garner attention. Turay should be improved in his second year. If we get a decent iDL in the 1st, that up the game again exponentially.

 

-DBs will benefit from the addition of Houston, Turay's improvement, and the addition of an iDL. S is more of an injury issue than a talent issue, and we signed another S (Kendrick) in FA. I'm fine with adding one though in the second. CB is fine with the scheme we play. 

 

-LB is fine, with DL at the core. Walker should improve. LB is a devalued position and we could easily get a decent guy in the 3rd or 4th. 

 

-We spent more in 2018 on TE than any other team. If Doyle is back, we don't need another. If he struggles this year, we make TE a priority in round 1 or 2 of next year while resigning Ebron.

Please sell me on IDL.  In today’s NFL, you have to score or prevent score so how is a DL @ 26 gonna help?  If he’s a Warren Sap clone then yes all for it but I don’t see a Warren Sapp available?  Clemson’s DL feasted on being more physical but please tell me that dominance forecasts to NFL?  Just don’t see DL or SS as a 1st rd grade in today’s game.  I will ask one more time, how many 3 and outs does it take before upgrading a bunch of misfits at the wr position!  Our best wr is a 4th rd pick, let me repeat that for the slower folk, our best wr is a 4th rd pick!  Marvin & Reggie say enough with the misfits and invest in real talent!  If CB fails again to address the most important position in a passing league then he is not the the answer!

[NDcolt]

For all those wanting to draft a guy in 1st rd who can’t contribute in 2019 while rehabbing from major knee surgery, YOU LOST YOUR DAMN MIND!

[NDcolt]

On 4/19/2019 at 6:30 PM, Stephen said:

Hoping Metcalf and Jacob's are not on our board. There more explosive rbs and better wrs in the draft than Metcalf and jacobs

Hoping CB and staff see what we all see and that’s Bust mode for Metcalf and I don’t trust any RB out of Bama.  Bama’s Pro OL make all their rb’s look better than what they amount to in the NFL imho.  All my trust in this staff would literally get thrown out the window if we draft either of these clowns.

[NDcolt]

Colts will be in position to add a Calvin Johnson like player at 26 if they choose to.  I ask you, would you select this type of talent that normally doesn’t fall to 26 over a 2 down DL, a SS that can’t cover or a RB that we don’t need and is overhyped?  Most say we’re set at wr with Funchess and Cain but do either project to be Game Changers like a Calvin Johnson?  What about those that say we have two great TE’s in Doyle and Ebron that we can afford a less wr corps?  When has Doyle finished a season not on IR and visions of Ebron dropping a floater to start the game off 3-OUT still haunt me.  The Colts will win the SB once TY becomes second fiddle! 

[Colts_Fan12]

10 hours ago, NDcolt said:

For all those wanting to draft a guy in 1st rd who can’t contribute in 2019 while rehabbing from major knee surgery, YOU LOST YOUR DAMN MIND!

and your a damn fool for not seeing that we would be getting a top 5 or top 10 player at 26 with Simmons before his injury he was a higher rated player than everyone you want. btw the WR class is one of the deepest ever and most of them wont go til the 2nd anyway 

[Colts_Fan12]

8 hours ago, NDcolt said:

Colts will be in position to add a Calvin Johnson like player at 26 if they choose to.  I ask you, would you select this type of talent that normally doesn’t fall to 26 over a 2 down DL, a SS that can’t cover or a RB that we don’t need and is overhyped?  Most say we’re set at wr with Funchess and Cain but do either project to be Game Changers like a Calvin Johnson?  What about those that say we have two great TE’s in Doyle and Ebron that we can afford a less wr corps?  When has Doyle finished a season not on IR and visions of Ebron dropping a floater to start the game off 3-OUT still haunt me.  The Colts will win the SB once TY becomes second fiddle! 

who is the WR you see ad the next megatron? also the DL we select would be in on nearly every snap 

[Peterk2011]

12 hours ago, NDcolt said:

Please sell me on IDL.  In today’s NFL, you have to score or prevent score so how is a DL @ 26 gonna help?  If he’s a Warren Sap clone then yes all for it but I don’t see a Warren Sapp available?  Clemson’s DL feasted on being more physical but please tell me that dominance forecasts to NFL?  Just don’t see DL or SS as a 1st rd grade in today’s game.  I will ask one more time, how many 3 and outs does it take before upgrading a bunch of misfits at the wr position!  Our best wr is a 4th rd pick, let me repeat that for the slower folk, our best wr is a 4th rd pick!  Marvin & Reggie say enough with the misfits and invest in real talent!  If CB fails again to address the most important position in a passing league then he is not the the answer!

 

1. He was a 3rd rd pick (Grigson traded up to grab him, one of his good moves).

2. Antonio Brown was selected in the 6th round. This does not make him less valuable.

 

So, maybe you think faster than us, slower folks, but be careful to not rush it.  The draft - especially in the first round, and unless he is a QB -, is not about stiching holes, but selecting the best available talents. Drafting by need usually leads to failure. 

 

And while you are right, there are usually no Warren Sapps available at 26. But neither Reggie Waynes / Marvin Harrisons. So it's not like picking a DL the Colts would loose on a Reggie Wayne. They would loose on a WR like Devin Funches, who may be better but very well may be worse than who we already have. (The Calvin Johnson analogy is a huge-huge overstatement. Johnson was a 1/2 pick and a generational talent. Metcalf - I guess he is the guy who you were talking about - is a high risk boom or bust.) 

 

Btw, I don't think WR is bigger need than DL right now. The Colts have decent depth and good mix of veterans and talented young guys at both positions. Of course both positions could benefit an upgrade. However, I think there is a good chance that there will be a DL with 1st round grade available at 26, but no WR. I think the second day is more realistic for a WR, because there's plenty WR's out there with 2nd-4th round grades, but only 1, maybe 2 with 1st round grades (and they will probably be long gone before the #26).

 

Finally, I think you underestimate the importance of a good DL. Inside pass rush has never been more important than nowadays. 

[cbear]

19 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

With no TEs under contract beyond the 2019 season, TE is most definitely a need, albeit more of an under the radar need than a glaring one. But if a guy like Hockensen is there, & all of the DL/EDGE guys that the Colts have 1st round grades on are gone, then I have zero issues taking a TE.

 

I've been rethinking my statement and must admit over the past couple days that if Hockensen was there and all the dl/edges are gone, though I'd still be a bit disappointed, I might refrain from the leap.  A db/s/wr would still be my preference over a TE though.  Something should be there. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 hours ago, cbear said:

 

I've been rethinking my statement and must admit over the past couple days that if Hockensen was there and all the dl/edges are gone, though I'd still be a bit disappointed, I might refrain from the leap.  A db/s/wr would still be my preference over a TE though.  Something should be there. 

 

Most analysts have Hockensen as a top 10-15 player, & if he somehow falls into the Colts lap & they take him, he's immediately the best TE on our roster. I have a hard time imagining him getting past Detroit or Green Bay though.

[jameszeigler834]

On 4/19/2019 at 6:42 PM, richard pallo said:

I don't know about Metcalf but Jacobs was in for a two day visit.  If I had to guess he is on our board somewhere.

Metcalf will probably be a good player is he a superstar that all the talking heads thinks he is time will tell the tale but I don't think if he doesn't go out and light the world on fire that he is an automatic bust.

[EastStreet]

On 4/22/2019 at 9:49 AM, chad72 said:

 

The way those 31 points were obtained was the big difference for KC. Against us, they passed underneath at will and went up 14-0 just like that. NE on the other hand stifled them in the first half and kept them scoreless. NE controlled tempo with their run game, we could not. That was the main difference. Once NE got the run game going, the coverages were simpler to decipher with 1-on-1s across the board for NE. 

 

Yes, they did have underneath guys like Edelman and a beast like Gronk separate and catch more, that was the difference from us. Our underneath guys could not separate even if KC played them 1-on-1. Those underneath guys can be found on Day 2. 

 

In other words, I somewhat agree with you that we need a WR on Day 2, either Round 2 or 3 that can separate well. We just don't need that "alpha" WR necessarily. 

I'm all about iDL day one. 34 or 59 is fine for WR. I'd absolutely love Isabella at 59 if he drops that far.

 

TY is our Alpha, but he's a Z. Just need someone on the other side that can separate in the middle and long. I'd even be fine with Boykin at 59. Big and fast, that uses his body very well.

[Stephen]

On 4/21/2019 at 10:36 PM, DerekDiggler said:

I’m saying WR has been addressed in FA and with last yrs draft.    WR don’t develop as quick as you might think these days.  Due to stupid college offenses.  

 

Coaching is a real thing.   There is no sense drafting a player (Cain) amd then dismissing him after one yr without seeing what he is capable of   Let’s say we stay Status Quo and Luck amd crew have the same success as last yr.   BUT we have a better D     We advance farther.  Even SB farther.  

 

I get it you are an offensive guy. And want a WR. 

 

Defense wins in this league.   Running the call wins in this league.  

 

When was was the last team with a big time WR won the SB?   

 

Because the Pats and Eagles didn’t have one

 

Pats win by controlling  the trenches.  Not with high powered WRs 

 

 

If we get the playoffs and only score 13 points we prob not winning many games unless our defense becomes so good we hold teams to 10 or less a game, but can't  see that happening  so offense must be addressed 

[Stephen]

29 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

I'm all about iDL day one. 34 or 59 is fine for WR. I'd absolutely love Isabella at 59 if he drops that far.

 

TY is our Alpha, but he's a Z. Just need someone on the other side that can separate in the middle and long. I'd even be fine with Boykin at 59. Big and fast, that uses his body very well.

Be nice to have 2 10 plus td wrs