Sounds like the Colts tried to trade for Demarcus Lawrence

[Steamboat_Shaun]

I'm guessing this is what Benjamin Albright was referring to when he said the Colts were "exploring certain corners of the league about a potential trade."

 

"Sports Illustrated’s Albert Breer was the first to say he heard that two AFC teams had interest in Lawrence; Fisher says that one of those teams was the Chiefs, and the other was the Indianapolis Colts."

 

Story here...

 

 

[lollygagger8]

Don't get me wrong, Lawrence  would've been a great addition, but I'm glad the Colts didn't give all that money up and got Houston instead. 

[shasta519]

Sounds like Lawrence's agent reached out to KC and IND to help leverage a better deal for his client. Wonder what Ballard would have been willing to give up...or how close the two sides were. I am sure Ballard was at least intrigued.

 

Given that two weeks passed between the Lawrence extension and signing of Houston, I wonder when the agent reached out. If it was AFTER the Houston signing and Ballard was listening...that means that edge is still probably near the very top of the draft list. Things could get very interesting on draft day. It could also mean he might be looking to make another splash move.

 

 

 

[IinD]

So Ballard wasn't eating Cheetos watching YouTube in his office during the start of FA like some made it seem?

 

Madness....

[Coltsfan66]

1 minute ago, lollygagger8 said:

Don't get me wrong, Lawrence  would've been a great addition, but I'm glad the Colts didn't give all that money up and got Houston instead. 

I agree, Houston only cost money, a lot less, and brings a veteran presence that will hopefully help the young Defensive Lineman on the team.  

[richard pallo]

Lawrence would have been a great addition and would have been a long term solution at ER vs. Houston.  But I guess the price was too high.  So far we inquired about Lawrence and Ford.  I'm glad about that.   Maybe Ballard isn't finished about inquiring about players being available via trade such as Frank Clark.  We do have that Seahawk connection.  If the ER's we have an eye on go early in the draft maybe he switches course on draft day and goes after Clark?  The Lawrence and Ford contracts have set the parameters for Clarks deal.  So Ballard knows what it would take to sign him to a long term deal.  The Seahawks have Russell Wilson to take care of pretty soon.  A trade of Clark just might help to expedite that deal and free up the space and money.  I think it's something to keep an eye on on draft day. 

[Colts_Fan12]

damn I would have loved that 

[csmopar]

52 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

I'm guessing this is what Benjamin Albright was referring to when he said the Colts were "exploring certain corners of the league about a potential trade."

 

"Sports Illustrated’s Albert Breer was the first to say he heard that two AFC teams had interest in Lawrence; Fisher says that one of those teams was the Chiefs, and the other was the Indianapolis Colts."

 

Story here...

 

 

I'm sure 31 teams expressed "interest" to some degree in Lawrence. We will likely never know just how far or what we offered, if anything.

[Mitch Connors]

42 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Don't get me wrong, Lawrence  would've been a great addition, but I'm glad the Colts didn't give all that money up and got Houston instead. 

 

Plus the article says "traded for Lawrence".

Id much rather have Houston plus draft picks plus money than Lawrence minus draft picks minus more money

[Superman]

Trading for and paying Lawrence > signing Houston.

 

I have no problem with Ballard not going all out for a trade, but I don't think signing Houston scratches the same itch.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

22 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I'm sure 31 teams expressed "interest" to some degree in Lawrence. We will likely never know just how far or what we offered, if anything.

 

You might be right, but there were only a handful of teams that had the combination of cap space & draft picks to make that deal happen. Considering that info is from a Cowboys insider, along with the whole Matt Eberflus factor, I find it pretty easy to believe that there was probably at least a low-ball offer of some sort on behalf of the Colts.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, IinD said:

So Ballard wasn't eating Cheetos watching YouTube in his office during the start of FA like some made it seem?

 

Madness....

 

Cheetos is a Name Brand. More likely munching on a dollar store brand. 

 

Sorry, that was too easy and couldn't help myself. Lol. 

 

 

[GoColts00]

I wouldn't be surprised if we draft Chase Winovich, Michigan since he is very close to Houston in size, athletic ability, agility.

Houston

6'3"  270lbs

40 YARD DASH: 4.68 SEC

BENCH PRESS: 30 REPS

VERTICAL JUMP: 36.5 INCH

BROAD JUMP: 125.0 INCH

3 CONE DRILL: 6.95 SEC

20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.37 SEC

60 YARD SHUTTLE: 11.46 SEC

 

Winovich

6'3"  256lbs

40 Yard Dash:4.59 SECONDS

10 Yard Split:1.57 SECONDS

Bench Press:18 REPS

Vertical Jump:30.5 INCHES

Broad Jump:116.0 INCHES

3 Cone Drill:6.94 SECONDS

20 Yd Shuttle:4.11 SECONDS

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I think I would rather at least try to find a pass rusher in the draft then lose draft picks and the money on someone like Lawrence. If I knew I would have to pay him that much I am not giving up as much draft capital. I think Houston was the perfect fit for us and we  didn’t have to give up much money or draft picks.

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

Trading for and paying Lawrence > signing Houston.

 

I have no problem with Ballard not going all out for a trade, but I don't think signing Houston scratches the same itch.

 

True. Folks here are not realizing that we'd be ponying the same or higher amount of money for homegrown talent of ours down the road at some point in time if we hit our draft picks right. With the cap space we have and not many draft picks to re-sign or extend this year or next, I would have had no qualms with the same deal made by the Colts for Lawrence, I truly wouldn't have. The money doesn't bother me, just the draft capital if we had to trade for him. If he was an UFA, yeah, sure count me in.

[Coltsfan66]

31 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

True. Folks here are not realizing that we'd be ponying the same or higher amount of money for homegrown talent of ours down the road at some point in time if we hit our draft picks right. With the cap space we have and not many draft picks to re-sign or extend this year or next, I would have had no qualms with the same deal made by the Colts for Lawrence, I truly wouldn't have. The money doesn't bother me, just the draft capital if we had to trade for him. If he was an UFA, yeah, sure count me in.

The draft capital is what most of the aforementioned, myself included, seem to be agreeing with.  Lawrence is the younger player, actually entering his prime, with experience in our DC's system.  

 

Just thought I would offer some stats on the two:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HousJu00.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LawrDe00.htm

 

Anyway, it is a moot point now, just glad Houston was "maybe" the consolation prize.

 

 

[Mitch Connors]

22 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

True. Folks here are not realizing that we'd be ponying the same or higher amount of money for homegrown talent of ours down the road at some point in time if we hit our draft picks right. With the cap space we have and not many draft picks to re-sign or extend this year or next, I would have had no qualms with the same deal made by the Colts for Lawrence, I truly wouldn't have. The money doesn't bother me, just the draft capital if we had to trade for him. If he was an UFA, yeah, sure count me in.

 

That's true but with one major difference between the two situations, a drafted player is cheap for 4 years where a FA is expensive from day one. We're paying Houston and a draft pick way less than Lawrence is being paid. Plus the Colts would need to give up that draft capital to acquire Lawrence and pay the contract (according to the article).

 

The Houston path is gambling less money using two players - Houston and a draft pick.

The Lawrence path is gambling more money using one player - Lawrence.

 

Sort of the exact concept Ballard espouses with his team building mantra - the more darts you can throw the more likely you are to hit a bullseye.

[chad72]

1 minute ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

That's true but with one major difference between the two situations, a drafted player is cheap for 4 years where a FA is expensive from day one. We're paying Houston and a draft pick way less than Lawrence is being paid. Plus the Colts would need to give up that draft capital to acquire Lawrence and pay the contract (according to the article).

 

The Houston path is gambling less money using two players - Houston and a draft pick.

The Lawrence path is gambling more money using one player - Lawrence.

 

Sort of the exact concept Ballard espouses with his team building mantra - the more darts you can throw the more likely you are to hit a bullseye.

 

Yeah, but if you know it is the right FA, you cannot hold back with that thought process, especially if it does not result in loss of draft capital. It is moot in this case since it would have cost us a first rounder.

 

A UFA signed, assuming he is signed because he fits us, contributes from day 1 but in all likelihood, the draft pick has to be coached up despite being possibly hyped as the next best thing since sliced bread.  Having said that, I agree with Ballard that FA is used for supplementation and you will eventually have the dilemma of losing some draft picks because you cannot pay them all, and have to continually keep the cupboard stocked with draft picks in the rotation.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

True. Folks here are not realizing that we'd be ponying the same or higher amount of money for homegrown talent of ours down the road at some point in time if we hit our draft picks right. With the cap space we have and not many draft picks to re-sign or extend this year or next, I would have had no qualms with the same deal made by the Colts for Lawrence, I truly wouldn't have. The money doesn't bother me, just the draft capital if we had to trade for him. If he was an UFA, yeah, sure count me in.

 

Yes, if he hit the market I would have been fine with whatever it took to get him, but we all knew he wasn't gonna hit the market. This is why players are generally not tagged then traded, the trade compensation + the big contract is usually too big a pill to swallow for the new team. We've seen it twice in two seasons, but it's still pretty rare.

 

Coincidentally (or not?) both times it was for an edge rusher. Because they don't hit the market.

[DougDew]

Just looking at it from the Cowboys side, what would they have gained by the trade.  Apparently, they would have had to use a 1st round pick on an edge rusher, since they would have left a big hole in the roster.  Unless they have somebody already rostered who can take his place.  

 

I guess they save cap space and hope they find the rusher.  That doesn't sound like a move an ascending team would make.

[NewColtsFan]

To be clear, the majority of the story is about KC’s interest in DL.

 

Most of the stuff about Indy’s interest is connecting the dots as to why Matt Eberflus would have special interest.   Honestly, beyond a phone call to find out what it would take to do a deal I can’t imagine the call would be very long.

 

Dallas would likely want close to what Oakland received for Mack.   I don’t think Chris Ballard would have any interest in trading two first round picks plus, plus.   That’s just not happening. 

 

Im sure we called.    I’m sure we asked. I’m sure we list interest quickly

[rock8591]

I'm still of the opinion that Demarcus Lawrence is a contract year phenom.

 

Last 2 years, he started the season strong and cooled off. Still, despite his massive contract, far from half the player JJ Watt or Von Miller was in their primes.

 

2-3 years down the road, you'll see a fat, out of shape, and complacent player who got paid, lost motivation, and will be a salary cap casualty. It's an undeniable fact.

 

Look at Andrew Norwell...played worse than Mark Glowinski last year.

[EastStreet]

In general (for a healthy roster), it's always better to draft a legit (not depth) DE, QB, WR, or OL (LT especially). They're the highest paid positions in the NFL, and it's incredibly valuable to a roster to be able to ride out a 4 year rookie contract and 5th year option. It's also much better from a locker room perspective to "pay" one of your own.

 

There's always exceptions and scenarios where you go against the grain, but I'm much happier with Houston from a roster health perspective. Draft capital is critical to a guy like Ballard who's on a 3 yearish plan. And getting Houston on a what I consider to be a pretty reasonable 2 year deal was a great outcome.

 

I don't think Ballard will go after another Edge early, but I would not be shocked if he did. I think there are more pressing needs, and I think they'll want to see how Turay progresses in year 2. A guy like Winovich or Ferguson being available at 59 would be interesting. Polite at 89 maybe. There's a few projects out there like Crosby later. 

 

 

[ColtJax]

He would have been great. If you want top talent you have to pay up, you don't think we're going to have to do that with our guys when they're in for 4 years? I would have given up our 1st and 3rd and been happy to pay the 100 million, difference makers are worth every penny..

[MFT5]

17 hours ago, GoColts00 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we draft Chase Winovich, Michigan since he is very close to Houston in size, athletic ability, agility.

Houston

6'3"  270lbs

40 YARD DASH: 4.68 SEC

BENCH PRESS: 30 REPS

VERTICAL JUMP: 36.5 INCH

BROAD JUMP: 125.0 INCH

3 CONE DRILL: 6.95 SEC

20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.37 SEC

60 YARD SHUTTLE: 11.46 SEC

 

Winovich

6'3"  256lbs

40 Yard Dash:4.59 SECONDS

10 Yard Split:1.57 SECONDS

Bench Press:18 REPS

Vertical Jump:30.5 INCHES

Broad Jump:116.0 INCHES

3 Cone Drill:6.94 SECONDS

20 Yd Shuttle:4.11 SECONDS

 

i like winovich but he and houston aren’t close. houston is a better athlete w more weight 

[lollygagger8]

19 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

Plus the article says "traded for Lawrence".

Id much rather have Houston plus draft picks plus money than Lawrence minus draft picks minus more money

 

[Coltsfan66]

10 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

 

[Superman]

11 hours ago, rock8591 said:

2-3 years down the road, you'll see a fat, out of shape, and complacent player who got paid, lost motivation, and will be a salary cap casualty. It's an undeniable fact.

 

[GoColts00]

3 hours ago, MFT5 said:

 

i like winovich but he and houston aren’t close. houston is a better athlete w more weight 

Houston is stronger, but they're about the same athletically. 

I think Houston is what Winovich can become. That would be great for the Colts

[Jason_]

14 hours ago, rock8591 said:

I'm still of the opinion that Demarcus Lawrence is a contract year phenom.

 

Last 2 years, he started the season strong and cooled off. Still, despite his massive contract, far from half the player JJ Watt or Von Miller was in their primes.

 

2-3 years down the road, you'll see a fat, out of shape, and complacent player who got paid, lost motivation, and will be a salary cap casualty. It's an undeniable fact.

 

Look at Andrew Norwell...played worse than Mark Glowinski last year.

 

 

[IinD]

I am a little shocked at how much some would have done almost anything for this guy. I can't pretend to know how good he is, but he's definitely got fans here and had only 10 sacks last year and is heading for shoulder surgery. Doesn't seem like a guy like Freeney or Peppers in their primes to me, but whatever...

[shasta519]

22 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

True. Folks here are not realizing that we'd be ponying the same or higher amount of money for homegrown talent of ours down the road at some point in time if we hit our draft picks right. With the cap space we have and not many draft picks to re-sign or extend this year or next, I would have had no qualms with the same deal made by the Colts for Lawrence, I truly wouldn't have. The money doesn't bother me, just the draft capital if we had to trade for him. If he was an UFA, yeah, sure count me in.

 

Yep...AND you have to use an early pic...AND you have to get it right. That risk is gone...but now you don't get the cheap years. Given that most NFL players are not top-tier players...trading for proven impact talent is not a bad route...depending on your situation. The fact that Ballard even responded shows that he believes this as well.

[NewEra]

On 4/11/2019 at 9:42 AM, Coltsfan66 said:

 

So you're saying you spread your but cheeks as Mike Hancho? Lol 

[Coltsfan66]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

So you're saying you spread your but cheeks as Mike Hancho? Lol 

Not me, Cal Naughton Jr. did, lol!  I love that movie!