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Defjamz26

There’s no Chance Wilkins falls to the Colts

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2 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Who's your guy at dt or at 26?

 

I don't have a realistic guy at DT for us, because the ones I really like will be gone. I'm trying to find someone that I like, especially in the defensive front because that would be awesome, but I'm not overwhelmed by anyone so far. I still have a few guys that I haven't watched; I haven't even really watched Ed Oliver, but he's probably a top ten guy so it doesn't matter.

 

I feel like BPA could easily be a safety or a WR, after the run at DL those will be the deepest positions left. But because of the depth, I don't think either would represent the best value; I like the projected Day 2 guys as much as the guys who will be there at #26. Maybe a tackle, if someone falls. I don't know...

 

Specific to Wilkins, after watching him yesterday, he has some moves, some wiggle, some burst, pretty good motor, he closes well, and when he wins at the snap he can get good penetration, he plays with good leverage most of the time, he has good awareness, and I like everything I read/hear about him in the locker room and off the field. But I see him lose anchor a lot, he winds up on the ground, he gets washed out by double teams especially if he can't split the double right away, his hands are inconsistent, he doesn't have great length or power... He's being projected as a three tech, but I think he still has a lot of work to do, and I don't know if he has the burst and technique to be a difference maker up front. I see flashes, but not consistently enough to really buy it as something that will translate to the NFL. Right now, I see a rotational DL, not a starting three tech, and I'm not sure about the upside because he's not a great athlete, and at 300 pounds he doesn't play with great power or anchor, so where is he going to excel?

 

So as a top 30-40 prospect, I'm just not thrilled with him. There's plenty to like, but he's getting "foundational DT" buzz, and I feel like that's a little over the top.

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As a guy that's watched every Notre Dame game (many multiple times) since probably 1999, Jerry Tillery is a monster. He is very disruptive, and he is generally always the first player off the ball. If he can continue that at the next level, his hand-action would have him in opposing backfields regularly, and that's exactly what we're trying to do, create more pass rush. If we're going to take a DT at 26, I can't think of a better one that would realistically be available, at least not one that will actually play football next season. 

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35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't have a realistic guy at DT for us, because the ones I really like will be gone. I'm trying to find someone that I like, especially in the defensive front because that would be awesome, but I'm not overwhelmed by anyone so far. I still have a few guys that I haven't watched; I haven't even really watched Ed Oliver, but he's probably a top ten guy so it doesn't matter.

 

I feel like BPA could easily be a safety or a WR, after the run at DL those will be the deepest positions left. But because of the depth, I don't think either would represent the best value; I like the projected Day 2 guys as much as the guys who will be there at #26. Maybe a tackle, if someone falls. I don't know...

 

Specific to Wilkins, after watching him yesterday, he has some moves, some wiggle, some burst, pretty good motor, he closes well, and when he wins at the snap he can get good penetration, he plays with good leverage most of the time, he has good awareness, and I like everything I read/hear about him in the locker room and off the field. But I see him lose anchor a lot, he winds up on the ground, he gets washed out by double teams especially if he can't split the double right away, his hands are inconsistent, he doesn't have great length or power... He's being projected as a three tech, but I think he still has a lot of work to do, and I don't know if he has the burst and technique to be a difference maker up front. I see flashes, but not consistently enough to really buy it as something that will translate to the NFL. Right now, I see a rotational DL, not a starting three tech, and I'm not sure about the upside because he's not a great athlete, and at 300 pounds he doesn't play with great power or anchor, so where is he going to excel?

 

So as a top 30-40 prospect, I'm just not thrilled with him. There's plenty to like, but he's getting "foundational DT" buzz, and I feel like that's a little over the top.

Thanks for your analysis. I have been a huge fan of Wilkins based on what I have heard and read. I personally haven't attempted to break his film down as I confess I don't take the time and am not good at it.

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5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't have a realistic guy at DT for us, because the ones I really like will be gone. I'm trying to find someone that I like, especially in the defensive front because that would be awesome, but I'm not overwhelmed by anyone so far. I still have a few guys that I haven't watched; I haven't even really watched Ed Oliver, but he's probably a top ten guy so it doesn't matter.

 

I feel like BPA could easily be a safety or a WR, after the run at DL those will be the deepest positions left. But because of the depth, I don't think either would represent the best value; I like the projected Day 2 guys as much as the guys who will be there at #26. Maybe a tackle, if someone falls. I don't know...

 

Specific to Wilkins, after watching him yesterday, he has some moves, some wiggle, some burst, pretty good motor, he closes well, and when he wins at the snap he can get good penetration, he plays with good leverage most of the time, he has good awareness, and I like everything I read/hear about him in the locker room and off the field. But I see him lose anchor a lot, he winds up on the ground, he gets washed out by double teams especially if he can't split the double right away, his hands are inconsistent, he doesn't have great length or power... He's being projected as a three tech, but I think he still has a lot of work to do, and I don't know if he has the burst and technique to be a difference maker up front. I see flashes, but not consistently enough to really buy it as something that will translate to the NFL. Right now, I see a rotational DL, not a starting three tech, and I'm not sure about the upside because he's not a great athlete, and at 300 pounds he doesn't play with great power or anchor, so where is he going to excel?

 

So as a top 30-40 prospect, I'm just not thrilled with him. There's plenty to like, but he's getting "foundational DT" buzz, and I feel like that's a little over the top.

 Have you had a chance to study Charles Omenihu, the de/dl from Texas? I really like him also but doesn't get hype.

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27 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

 

 Have you had a chance to study Charles Omenihu, the de/dl from Texas? I really like him also but doesn't get hype.

 

Not really. I watched a little of him a while back. He's still on the list.

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4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Not really. I watched a little of him a while back. He's still on the list.

Interesting comments on Wilkins, who I agree will not be around for the colts at 26. 

 

SouthernIndianaNDfan brought up Tillery, shockingly.  He has a decent chance of being there for the Colts, and he might just be their guy. I read good and bad about him. Great potential; great athlete; had 4 sacks against Stanford; doesn't always give best effort, etc. 

Any thoughts on him?

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9 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

If Wilkins isn't there, I'm guessing the Colts pick somebody that wasn't on anyone's radar. Then everyone cries and carries on how bad the player is, and then they go to the probowl their rookie year and later everyone says they knew that was going to happen. 

I still recall how upset I was when they took Edge over Ricky as well as the old Indy Star forum. I was like who is this James guy, never heard of him and Williams was right there for the taking. Which guy ended up far and away the best guy? Yep, Edge and it wasn’t close. Edge turned out to be my favorite Colt ever to date, wished we could have had him for his last 5 years in the league :Cry:Sometime we fans just have to accept the faith in the GM that they have scouted and picked the right guy, regardless of how we think we should have taken the other guy. To date, CB has earned the full trust he will get the right guy for this team. So until he picks a Björn Werner with his 1st pick, he gets 100% approval of his picks from me because what do I really know about these kids that the team scouts don’t know?  

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11 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't have a realistic guy at DT for us, because the ones I really like will be gone. I'm trying to find someone that I like, especially in the defensive front because that would be awesome, but I'm not overwhelmed by anyone so far. I still have a few guys that I haven't watched; I haven't even really watched Ed Oliver, but he's probably a top ten guy so it doesn't matter.

 

I feel like BPA could easily be a safety or a WR, after the run at DL those will be the deepest positions left. But because of the depth, I don't think either would represent the best value; I like the projected Day 2 guys as much as the guys who will be there at #26. Maybe a tackle, if someone falls. I don't know...

 

Specific to Wilkins, after watching him yesterday, he has some moves, some wiggle, some burst, pretty good motor, he closes well, and when he wins at the snap he can get good penetration, he plays with good leverage most of the time, he has good awareness, and I like everything I read/hear about him in the locker room and off the field. But I see him lose anchor a lot, he winds up on the ground, he gets washed out by double teams especially if he can't split the double right away, his hands are inconsistent, he doesn't have great length or power... He's being projected as a three tech, but I think he still has a lot of work to do, and I don't know if he has the burst and technique to be a difference maker up front. I see flashes, but not consistently enough to really buy it as something that will translate to the NFL. Right now, I see a rotational DL, not a starting three tech, and I'm not sure about the upside because he's not a great athlete, and at 300 pounds he doesn't play with great power or anchor, so where is he going to excel?

 

So as a top 30-40 prospect, I'm just not thrilled with him. There's plenty to like, but he's getting "foundational DT" buzz, and I feel like that's a little over the top.

Interesting thoughts. So does that mean you’re in the bout of people who think Lawrence has more upside because of how freaky it is. Wilkins looks like a plug and play 3T. Won’t give you great pass rush year one but he’ll develop that. I think the TDN guy who broke down his tape said he sees some Gerald McCoy in Wilkins.

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I think...we will hedge our bets on the DT position.  I would not at all be surprised if we get 3 in the draft. Jones, Saunders, Wren, etc. 2nd-4th rounds

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1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

Interesting thoughts. So does that mean you’re in the bout of people who think Lawrence has more upside because of how freaky it is. Wilkins looks like a plug and play 3T. Won’t give you great pass rush year one but he’ll develop that. I think the TDN guy who broke down his tape said he sees some Gerald McCoy in Wilkins.

 

I see more Eddie Goldman than Gerald McCoy. 

 

No real opinion on Lawrence. I need to watch him more.

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21 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

As a guy that's watched every Notre Dame game (many multiple times) since probably 1999, Jerry Tillery is a monster. He is very disruptive, and he is generally always the first player off the ball. If he can continue that at the next level, his hand-action would have him in opposing backfields regularly, and that's exactly what we're trying to do, create more pass rush. If we're going to take a DT at 26, I can't think of a better one that would realistically be available, at least not one that will actually play football next season. 

The guy gives you pass rush (mostly pressures), and is disruptive in the run game

 

I can invision him lining up next to Autry, and causing havoc with interior pass rush

 

He seems like a really good candidate for our type of defense at 26.

 

At 6'6" with very long arms, he can knock passes down as well

 

He is one guy where his highlight tape and game tape are similar.

The guy can play

 

He can also play both 1 tech, AND 3 tech, which is a unique talent

 

He gets MY VOTE

 

 

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9 hours ago, FalseStart said:

I think...we will hedge our bets on the DT position.  I would not at all be surprised if we get 3 in the draft. Jones, Saunders, Wren, etc. 2nd-4th rounds

I have cooled on Wren at any level

 

Watch his tape against Oregon.

 

He was handled one on one.... easily

 

He was also jogging around during plays

 

Pass for me

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41 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

The guy gives you pass rush (mostly pressures), and is disruptive in the run game

 

I can invision him lining up next to Autry, and causing havoc with interior pass rush

 

He seems like a really good candidate for our type of defense at 26.

 

At 6'6" with very long arms, he can knock passes down as well

 

He is one guy where his highlight tape and game tape are similar.

The guy can play

 

He can also play both 1 tech, AND 3 tech, which is a unique talent

 

He gets MY VOTE

 

 

He has a bunch of question marks though. His tape is inconsistent. You will here that word in every scouting report on him. He has dominant games like the one against Stanford, but then he has games like the one against Clemson (who has a poor OL) in the playoffs where you forget he’s even playing. Only really has 1 year of elite production.

 

And it’s been mentioned a bunch, but his character concerns are numerous. Kicked a player and stepped on another in a game, suspended from his team’s bowl game for violating team rules, had some questionable Twitter activity suggesting Brian Kelly get fired and be replaced by Les Miles, and has a ridiculous amount of interests outside of football that his own coaches said required him to re-focus on football.

 

Hes basically had 1 season of noteworthy production and about 2 seasons of not having any off the field incidents. He’s a big risk IMO.

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3 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I have cooled on Wren at any level

 

Watch his tape against Oregon.

 

He was handled one on one.... easily

 

He was also jogging around during plays

 

Pass for me

 

4 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

The guy gives you pass rush (mostly pressures), and is disruptive in the run game

 

I can invision him lining up next to Autry, and causing havoc with interior pass rush

 

He seems like a really good candidate for our type of defense at 26.

 

At 6'6" with very long arms, he can knock passes down as well

 

He is one guy where his highlight tape and game tape are similar.

The guy can play

 

He can also play both 1 tech, AND 3 tech, which is a unique talent

 

He gets MY VOTE

 

 

Haven't seen much of Wren though he got major kudos at the Senior Bowl. 

But I'm beginning to zero in on Tillery as the guy most likely to still be there at 26---- and who has the talent and potential to be a difference maker. 

 

My first choice: Brian Burns, though it looks more and more like he'll be gone. 

Choice #2: Tillery. I don't see the huge risk others do, and  he's damn good. 

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35 minutes ago, Hoose said:

 

Haven't seen much of Wren though he got major kudos at the Senior Bowl. 

But I'm beginning to zero in on Tillery as the guy most likely to still be there at 26---- and who has the talent and potential to be a difference maker. 

 

My first choice: Brian Burns, though it looks more and more like he'll be gone. 

Choice #2: Tillery. I don't see the huge risk others do, and  he's damn good. 

I also was impressed with Wren at Senior bowl

 

Actual game tape was HUGELY disappointing, as they looked like 2 different players

 

Thats why I like guys like Winovich.......  he is not a superstar,  but he is full speed always. If he would somehow last til 3rd round, I would grab him (I doubt it)

 

 

Tillary is the real deal.... he would provide pressure, on day one

 

I am also very high on Burns. He has great takeoff and great closing speed

I dont see any way that he there at 26

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

He has a bunch of question marks though. His tape is inconsistent. You will here that word in every scouting report on him. He has dominant games like the one against Stanford, but then he has games like the one against Clemson (who has a poor OL) in the playoffs where you forget he’s even playing. Only really has 1 year of elite production.

 

And it’s been mentioned a bunch, but his character concerns are numerous. Kicked a player and stepped on another in a game, suspended from his team’s bowl game for violating team rules, had some questionable Twitter activity suggesting Brian Kelly get fired and be replaced by Les Miles, and has a ridiculous amount of interests outside of football that his own coaches said required him to re-focus on football.

 

Hes basically had 1 season of noteworthy production and about 2 seasons of not having any off the field incidents. He’s a big risk IMO.

Maybe

 

There are also numerous reports that say he is a changed man (the last year) and has been a model citizen.

 

In an older post, I shared that he needs intense scrutiny before draft day

 

This is a guy that you need an in depth interview

 

If he passes... lets get him.... if he is an *...... than hard pass

 

 

I turned out decent in my mid to later 20s, (at least in my eyes) but if you would have a tape machine running on some of the ridiculous (and illegal) stuff that I personally  did at 20 and younger,  you may have a different opinion of me

 

Though I am embarrassed today, I can remember in high school as a TE, (I was MLB on defense) to punch the DE/LB in front of me as hard as I could in the adams apple with my inside hand, so the official on the outside couldnt see, on play one to get their attention.  I was smaller for a TE, but I played dirty.  

 

I think everyone should get a chance to change

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

Maybe

 

There are also numerous reports that say he is a changed man (the last year) and has been a model citizen.

 

In an older post, I shared that he needs intense scrutiny before draft day

 

This is a guy that you need an in depth interview

 

If he passes... lets get him.... if he is an *...... than hard pass

 

 

I turned out decent in my mid to later 20s, (at least in my eyes) but if you would have a tape machine running on some of the ridiculous (and illegal) stuff that I personally  did at 20 and younger,  you may have a different opinion of me

 

Though I am embarrassed today, I can remember in high school as a TE, (I was MLB on defense) to punch the DE/LB in front of me as hard as I could in the adams apple with my inside hand, so the official on the outside couldnt see, on play one to get their attention.  I was smaller for a TE, but I played dirty.  

 

I think everyone should get a chance to change

 

 

 

No doubt everyone deserves a 2nd chance. The question is if Ballard is the guy to give Tillery that chance. In his Colts tenure, the only people he has taken a chance on have been Deon Cain (suspension for failed drug tests) and Jalen Collins (3 NFL suspensions), and neither cost much to get. Idk if Ballard is going to spend a high draft pick on a guy who needs intense scrutiny on his character.

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On 3/18/2019 at 10:23 AM, Superman said:

I don't have a realistic guy at DT for us, because the ones I really like will be gone. I'm trying to find someone that I like, especially in the defensive front because that would be awesome, but I'm not overwhelmed by anyone so far. I still have a few guys that I haven't watched; I haven't even really watched Ed Oliver, but he's probably a top ten guy so it doesn't matter.

 

I feel like BPA could easily be a safety or a WR, after the run at DL those will be the deepest positions left. But because of the depth, I don't think either would represent the best value; I like the projected Day 2 guys as much as the guys who will be there at #26. Maybe a tackle, if someone falls. I don't know...

I'm totally with you, Superman.  The more I look at our situation at 26, the louder the voice in the back of my head says "don't fall in love with addressing pass rush with the first pick".  There's a very good chance that all of the guys who truly deserve to be picked in the first round will be gone, and there will be someone else at a different position that can offer a lot more, doing what he does.  Don't get tunnel vision!

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Jaylon Ferguson just had one of the worst pro-days ever out of a high valued prospect... 

 

Here's his measurements:

 

WOW! 

 

8.08 3 cone!!! 

5.12 shuttle????!?! 

 

wth is that? How high do you draft that? This is horrendous. He also took 8 attempts to clock the 8.08 3cone. He fell on 5 of the other attempts. 

 

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

Jaylon Ferguson just had one of the worst pro-days ever out of a high valued prospect... 

 

Here's his measurements:

 

WOW! 

 

8.08 3 cone!!! 

5.12 shuttle????!?! 

 

wth is that? How high do you draft that? This is horrendous. He also took 8 attempts to clock the 8.08 3cone. He fell on 5 of the other attempts. 

 

That surprises me........  he will probably slide to round 3-4

 

I was thinking he would run a bit faster 40 

 

I guess being king kong with Div 2 college OTs doesnt get you in  

 

 

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6 hours ago, stitches said:

Jaylon Ferguson just had one of the worst pro-days ever out of a high valued prospect... 

 

Here's his measurements:

 

WOW! 

 

8.08 3 cone!!! 

5.12 shuttle????!?! 

 

wth is that? How high do you draft that? This is horrendous. He also took 8 attempts to clock the 8.08 3cone. He fell on 5 of the other attempts. 

 

I like Ferguson but those results are incredibly bad. Was he drunk?

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Those numbers look about like how he moves on film.  Not surprising to me

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6 minutes ago, krunk said:

Those numbers look about like how he moves on film.  Not surprising to me

I mean he looks a bit stiff... but those are especially bad. Out of every single defensive lineman at the combine(this includes players 90-100 pounds heavier than him), only one was worse at the 3cone and none were worse at the shuttle... How is this possible? 

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