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w87r

Future Salary Cap Use

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Been seeing a lot of talk in these threads about how our money is being spent. Why/How's/Who's? I'm going to try and break it down to show how saving our cap space now does EFFECT our 1st and 2nd year(Hooker/Leonard/Nelson)guys who WON'T be able to recieve this round of rollover $$.

 

 So going off of spotrac salary cap numbers, 2019 + 2020:

 

2019 - $74.8m(current)

2020 - $88m(current) + rollover(look to be substantial) 

 

Players up for extension:

Eric Ebron

Anthony Castonzo

Ryan Kelly

Kenny Moore(Probably due a big bump in pay next year $8-$10m)

 

Players who's deal can/most likely will be reworked:

Andrew Luck

TY Hilton

 

Lets start with remaining outside FA's/rooke pool estimation for rest of offseason:

 

$20m

 

2019 Cap Space:$54.8m

2020 Cap Space

 

Extensions:

Ebron - 1yr $7m* Could offer him a 3yr $24m new deal. 2019:$10m 2020/2021:$7m

 

Castonzo - 1yr $11.05m* Could offer 4yr $48m new deal. 2019/2020:$14m 2021/2022:$10m

 

Kelly - 1yr $3.3m w/ 5th yr option $10.4m(extension next off-season but option picked up.)

 

New Cap Space:

2019:$48m

2020:$57m + rollover

 

Reworks:(Might not be till next off-season)

 

Andrew Luck - 3yr $77m* Could offer him a big front loaded extension this offseason or next to bring down future yearly cap hits(Saving money for our 1st/2nd year guys when they hit FA)

Lets go with a new 6yr $180m deal 2019/20/21:$35m 2022/2023:$25m

 

2019 Cap Space:$41.5m

2020 Cap Space:$50.4m + rollover

 

TY Hilton - 2yr $29.5m* Could rework deal like Luck to take bigger cap hot these next 2 years, reducing future cap hit.

 

Let's go with a new 4yr $64m deal

2019/2020:$18m 2021/2022:$14m

 

2019 Inseason roster cash:$5m

 

2019 Cap Space:$33.5m

2020 Cap Space:$46m + $33.5m= $79.5m

 

So if things went down like this we would have most major pieces secured while using more of these next couple years extra cash, and saving future dollars for our young guys. All while sticking to your word and taking care of your own guys. Then still have $80m in cap space to go after whoever might fit next year.

 

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Going to leave this here as well.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/17/free-agency-winners-often-cautionary-tales/

 

"It would be inaccurate to say you can’t win a Super Bowl by banking heavily on free agency.

But it is rare.

John Clayton of the Washington Post points out that the Broncos’ generous spendinghelped them to a Super Bowl 50 title, otherwise the big winners in March seldom duplicate that success in January and February.

According to Clayton, of the 49 highest-paid players in 2016 free agency, only 14 remain on the teams that signed them. Only 22 of the top 60 highest-paid in 2017 are still with the teams that made those splashes. And last year’s unrestricted free agent class produced just two Pro Bowlers, neither of them starters (special teamers Andre Roberts and Michael Thomas, and Roberts has already changed teams again)."

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I'm confident that Ballard already has his eyes on next year and the following years.  I think he's a forward thinker.  He has said he wants to resign his own.  And next year the Colts have a LOT of front-line players up for new deals.

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Luck is under contract for 3 more years.  He shouldn't be mentioned for a while. 

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Yeah, people act like resigning our own guys is gonna absolutely break the bank, but that just isn't the case. This level of conservatism is strange. Maybe he has plans to go it another year, and then load the barrel of we're still rolling full steam ahead via the draft? 

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I think ballard  thinks we still need a lot of building blocks in the draft. I don’t think his mind is one  big FA makes a contender yet. Once we are at that point you might see him get that one last player. But if anyone thinks that a safety like Collins is going to put you into a SB your crazy. The only guy Ballard might over pay for is a elite pass rusher. But teams don’t let them get away. We are going to have to figure out how to get one in the draft and that is going to be hard picking later in the first round. We may just have to bite the Bullet once and trade up. When Ballard days he likes them picks that could also mean he likes them because it gives him a chance to move up in the draft and have some leverage.

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23 minutes ago, wig said:

Luck is under contract for 3 more years.  He shouldn't be mentioned for a while. 

Its not a necessity to sign Luck to that deal. It's just an option we have to help carry over some of these "Savings" into signing our young guys later. 

 

We have the extra money, going to have a hard time spending the required 89%, so give it to your long term players. Pay them more now for cheaper years when Nelson and Leonard are up for deals.

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17 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Yeah, people act like resigning our own guys is gonna absolutely break the bank, but that just isn't the case. This level of conservatism is strange. Maybe he has plans to go it another year, and then load the barrel of we're still rolling full steam ahead via the draft? 

It definitely isn't going to break the bank, as this is probably worst case scenario money wise and we are still left with almost $80m in space next year.

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12 minutes ago, w87r said:

It definitely isn't going to break the bank, as this is probably worst case scenario money wise and we are still left with almost $80m in space next year.

 

I'm sure Ballard and Co have something up their sleeves, just don't know what it is yet. I'd assume they'll sign a couple more low-key guys before FA is up this year, hopefully draft well again, and if things steadily improve this year, then they add the missing pieces next year in FA with a lot of $ still at their disposal. 

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20 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think ballard  thinks we still need a lot of building blocks in the draft. I don’t think his mind is one  big FA makes a contender yet. Once we are at that point you might see him get that one last player. But if anyone thinks that a safety like Collins is going to put you into a SB your crazy. The only guy Ballard might over pay for is a elite pass rusher. But teams don’t let them get away. We are going to have to figure out how to get one in the draft and that is going to be hard picking later in the first round. We may just have to bite the Bullet once and trade up. When Ballard days he likes them picks that could also mean he likes them because it gives him a chance to move up in the draft and have some leverage.

 

It's gonna be interesting to see how the draft plays out. I wouldn't be opposed to trading BACK if the right guys are already off of the board. Potentially have three 2nd rounders and an additional 3rd or 4th. 

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17 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think ballard  thinks we still need a lot of building blocks in the draft. I don’t think his mind is one  big FA makes a contender yet. Once we are at that point you might see him get that one last player. But if anyone thinks that a safety like Collins is going to put you into a SB your crazy. The only guy Ballard might over pay for is a elite pass rusher. But teams don’t let them get away. We are going to have to figure out how to get one in the draft and that is going to be hard picking later in the first round. We may just have to bite the Bullet once and trade up. When Ballard days he likes them picks that could also mean he likes them because it gives him a chance to move up in the draft and have some leverage.

 

 Drafting a pass rusher early in the first is a hit and miss like any position.
They have to be developed too. Some have it inside them to be great and some just don't.

 Ballard was excited about getting Turay with the 52nd pick. Because he has terrific physical tools. And he has just as good a chance of being a Pro-bowler someday as most pass rushers drafted ahead of him.  
 Just wondering how many of you whiners were clamoring for D Ford. A guy that many here think was a one year wonder?   LMAO

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1 minute ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Drafting a pass rusher early in the first is a hit and miss like any position.
They have to be developed too. Some have it inside them to be great and some just don't.

 Ballard was excited about getting Turay with the 52nd pick. Because he has terrific physical tools. And he has just as good a chance of being a Pro-bowler someday as most pass rushers drafted ahead of him.  
 Just wondering how many of you whiners were clamoring for D Ford. A guy that many here think was a one year wonder?   LMAO

I think you have a good point about guys like Turay. We may already have what we think we need.

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think you have a good point about guys like Turay. We may already have what we think we need.

 

Guy just made an excellent post about what is already on the team, you should check it out if you already haven't. 

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2 hours ago, w87r said:

Its not a necessity to sign Luck to that deal. It's just an option we have to help carry over some of these "Savings" into signing our young guys later. 

 

We have the extra money, going to have a hard time spending the required 89%, so give it to your long term players. Pay them more now for cheaper years when Nelson and Leonard are up for deals.

Not disagreeing but just remember, that 89 percent is NOT figured with cap hits. It’s CASH FLOW,  Stuff like bonuses and incentives and several other things that don’t always count against the cap, DO count towards the 89 percent. When you add all those up, we have no issues meeting the 89 percent figure. 

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I wish we didn't sign Funchess or resign Desir.

We could have maybe saved that money to resign our 2019 draft picks in like 2024. 

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5 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Yeah, people act like resigning our own guys is gonna absolutely break the bank, but that just isn't the case. This level of conservatism is strange. Maybe he has plans to go it another year, and then load the barrel of we're still rolling full steam ahead via the draft? 

I think ALL of it comes down to how he does in the draft this year.  Does he hit more home runs, or does he draft duds has he has done a few times.  (What was that 900 pound RT guy from USC? Yikes was he bad).  It's a crap shoot.  If he hits it again he'll universally be considered the best GM in the biz.  But it seems more likely he pull back to the mean like most GMs including the good ones.  

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4 hours ago, JPFolks said:

I think ALL of it comes down to how he does in the draft this year.  Does he hit more home runs, or does he draft duds has he has done a few times.  (What was that 900 pound RT guy from USC? Yikes was he bad).  It's a crap shoot.  If he hits it again he'll universally be considered the best GM in the biz.  But it seems more likely he pull back to the mean like most GMs including the good ones.  

Draft duds a few times?  He has had two whole drafts so I don't get your point?

Out of the 19 players Ballard has drafted only 2 (Basham and Banner) are not with the team.

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5 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

I wish we didn't sign Funchess or resign Desir.

We could have maybe saved that money to resign our 2019 draft picks in like 2024. 

 

I’m guessing sarcasm?

 

It helps if you use emoji’s!     :thmup:

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4 hours ago, JPFolks said:

I think ALL of it comes down to how he does in the draft this year.  Does he hit more home runs, or does he draft duds has he has done a few times.  (What was that 900 pound RT guy from USC? Yikes was he bad).  It's a crap shoot.  If he hits it again he'll universally be considered the best GM in the biz.  But it seems more likely he pull back to the mean like most GMs including the good ones.  

I am betting he doesn’t pull back to the mean.  There is nothing average about Ballard. 

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Ebron and Doyle are both up in 2020 IIRC. Ebron is especially interesting to me. I'm glad he was locked in for 2 years. I think it's very possible that Ebron's production is decreased substantially with the Funchess signing. Should impact Doyle's production as well. 

 

In short, I don't see us re-signing all three in 20. I'm sure Ebron and Doyle are very curious to see how Funchess is used. Given Doyle will be close to 30 next year, he may be the odd man out.

 

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10 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Ebron and Doyle are both up in 2020 IIRC. Ebron is especially interesting to me. I'm glad he was locked in for 2 years. I think it's very possible that Ebron's production is decreased substantially with the Funchess signing. Should impact Doyle's production as well. 

 

In short, I don't see us re-signing all three in 20. I'm sure Ebron and Doyle are very curious to see how Funchess is used. Given Doyle will be close to 30 next year, he may be the odd man out.

 

If Doyle comes back from his injury I really don't see him as the odd one out. He is well liked, does his job and is a team captain. I don't see him being 30 being the difference.

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17 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

If Doyle comes back from his injury I really don't see him as the odd one out. He is well liked, does his job and is a team captain. I don't see him being 30 being the difference.

Depending on how Funchess is used, you could have 3 (or more) guys with similar skill sets vying for the same targets. Ebron 6.5M and Funchess 10M will be 26 and 27 next year vs a 30 year old Doyle 6.3M.  

 

Sure some TEs can be productive into their early 30s, I just don't see the Colts handing out a 4 or 5 year deal (which is what the top 1/3 or TEs in the league normally want/get). Ebron has earned a bump and has youth. Doyle's age combined with health won't help him. 

 

Love Doyle. I just don't see the them paying what is likely to be 8-13M+/yr to three guys with similar skill sets come end of next year.

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We are making this Too difficult.

Ballard has said time and again that he WON'T overspend in FACon BIG , over-priced contracts and still many around here are shaking their heads and asking why.

  The guy has told us why.  It couldnt be more clear.

This thread has facts to back up this approach and still the whining. The guy over-achieves on draft picks, gets exec of the year, and still the whining.

 

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31 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Depending on how Funchess is used, you could have 3 (or more) guys with similar skill sets vying for the same targets. Ebron 6.5M and Funchess 10M will be 26 and 27 next year vs a 30 year old Doyle 6.3M.  

 

Sure some TEs can be productive into their early 30s, I just don't see the Colts handing out a 4 or 5 year deal (which is what the top 1/3 or TEs in the league normally want/get). Ebron has earned a bump and has youth. Doyle's age combined with health won't help him. 

 

Love Doyle. I just don't see the them paying what is likely to be 8-13M+/yr to three guys with similar skill sets come end of next year.

Now you are talking about two different positions so their skill set does not exactly mean they will be stepping on each other.

Ebron was pretty much used as a WR but I think that will change with the addition of Funchess.

The skill set of all three can be used to the offensive advantage.

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4 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

We are making this Too difficult.

Ballard has said time and again that he WON'T overspend in FACon BIG , over-priced contracts and still many around here are shaking their heads and asking why.

  The guy has told us why.  It couldnt be more clear.

This thread has facts to back up this approach and still the whining. The guy over-achieves on draft picks, gets exec of the year, and still the whining.

 

In all reality those who are complaining (whining) are the ones who think high dollar free agents (especially Bell and Brown) were the answers to reaching the super bowl.

If they would have been paying attention to what Ballard has been saying since he has been here they should have known all along those two were not on the Colts radar.

Questioning and debating Ballard's choices are always open but I don't think he pays any attention to what we say or think in this forum.

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29 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

We are making this Too difficult.

Ballard has said time and again that he WON'T overspend in FACon BIG , over-priced contracts and still many around here are shaking their heads and asking why.

  The guy has told us why.  It couldnt be more clear.

This thread has facts to back up this approach and still the whining. The guy over-achieves on draft picks, gets exec of the year, and still the whining.

 

 

Great Flipping Post!

 

Thank You!

 

:colts:

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3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Now you are talking about two different positions so their skill set does not exactly mean they will be stepping on each other.

Ebron was pretty much used as a WR but I think that will change with the addition of Funchess.

The skill set of all three can be used to the offensive advantage.

 

Ebron has been used as a detached TE his entire career, which is basically a heavy/big WR. Funchess has played both TE and WR. Sure they are "officially" different positions, but their skill sets and size are extremely similar. It's why so many called the trade Ebron 2.0.

 

They don't need to change how they use Ebron a whole lot if any, especially in the RZ. You can't argue with his production last year and the chemistry he had with Luck.

 

If all they do is give Funchess the same types of targets they gave Ebron last year (moving production from A to B), the acquisition will have been silly. Funchess needs to bring something new, or something upgraded, to what we already have. If Ebron's production goes down and 2019Funchess+2019Ebron isn't a bunch more than 2018Ebron, then the experiment failed. If Ebron's production remains at 2018 levels, and Funchess gets 800+, then things will be really good!

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11 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

 

Ebron has been used as a detached TE his entire career, which is basically a heavy/big WR. Funchess has played both TE and WR. Sure they are "officially" different positions, but their skill sets and size are extremely similar. It's why so many called the trade Ebron 2.0.

 

They don't need to change how they use Ebron a whole lot if any, especially in the RZ. You can't argue with his production last year and the chemistry he had with Luck.

 

If all they do is give Funchess the same types of targets they gave Ebron last year (moving production from A to B), the acquisition will have been silly. Funchess needs to bring something new, or something upgraded, to what we already have. If Ebron's production goes down and 2019Funchess+2019Ebron isn't a bunch more than 2018Ebron, then the experiment failed. If Ebron's production remains at 2018 levels, and Funchess gets 800+, then things will be really good!

I think you are over thinking this.

Giving Luck as many weapons as he needs is all that needs to be known. Hopefully Luck will take the mis matches the TEs and WRs that Colts have lined up for him to use.

Subtraction by addition is not a bad thing.

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4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think you are over thinking this.

Giving Luck as many weapons as he needs is all that needs to be known. Hopefully Luck will take the mis matches the TEs and WRs that Colts have lined up for him to use.

Subtraction by addition is not a bad thing.

It's not overthinking it. It's pretty simple actually.

It's what many on the board have suggested, and what many of the "pros" have said as well. 

Neither you or I will know until we see how they use both of them come September.

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1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

We are making this Too difficult.

Ballard has said time and again that he WON'T overspend in FACon BIG , over-priced contracts and still many around here are shaking their heads and asking why.

  The guy has told us why.  It couldnt be more clear.

This thread has facts to back up this approach and still the whining. The guy over-achieves on draft picks, gets exec of the year, and still the whining.

 

Just because the guy is clear in his approach doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it.

 

The methodology can still be discussed. Everyone know that what is written on here has no effect on Ballard but it's a forum to express personal opinions not simply to follow blindly whatever the GM does.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

Just because the guy is clear in his approach doesn't mean everything has to agree with it.

 

The methodology can still be discussed. Everyone know that what is written on here has no effect on Ballard but it's a forum to express personal opinions not simply to follow blindly whatever the GM does.

 

 

 

What i'm talking about isnt discussion.  Its ignorance.

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1 minute ago, WoolMagnet said:

What i'm talking about isnt discussion.  Its ignorance.

But it isn't ignorance. Everyone knows what Ballard has said, nobody is ignoring it.

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27 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

But it isn't ignorance. Everyone knows what Ballard has said, nobody is ignoring it.

It may not be ignoring it but it is not paying attention to what he has said.

Talking about it is what we all do in forums but disregarding what Ballard has said and some even calling him names and other insults does show ignorance.

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43 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

But it isn't ignorance. Everyone knows what Ballard has said, nobody is ignoring it.

 

Everybody knows?

 

Nobdy is ignoring it?

 

You must not read many threads on this website.   Nobody who does could come to the conclusion you have...

 

Seriously....   not kidding...

 

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7 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

It may not be ignoring it but it is not paying attention to what he has said.

Talking about it is what we all do in forums but disregarding what Ballard has said and some even calling him names and other insults does show ignorance.

So once a GM has stated his intention any disagreements about that plan is ignorance? 

 

Insults should be off the table but surely we don't need to all blindly agree with the plan just because it's been stated?

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Everybody knows?

 

Nobdy is ignoring it?

 

You must not read many threads on this website.   Nobody who does could come to the conclusion you have...

 

Seriously....   not kidding...

 

You have people disagreeing with it and wishing he would take a different course with the situation at his disposal. 

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2 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

So once a GM has stated his intention any disagreements about that plan is ignorance? 

 

Insults should be off the table but surely we don't need to all blindly agree with the plan just because it's been stated?

Quit putting words in my mouth. That is not what I said and it certainly wasn't my intentions.

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3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Quit putting words in my mouth. That is not what I said and it certainly wasn't my intentions.

I didn't put words in your mouth. Both of those sentences were questions.

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