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MikeCurtis

Would (Could) the Colts consider a trade in round 1?

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It was reported last year that the Colts were considering moving up to take Chubb from 6th pick to take Bradley Chubb

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Bolt/Report-Denver-Broncos-turned-down-huge-trade-package-from-Bills-to-draft-Bradley-Chubb-117880925/

 

From Article:

Per Klis, the Colts, picking sixth overall, phoned Denver about moving up a spot for Chubb. No way, said Elway, who admitted last Thursday the former North Carolina State defensive end was too irresistible to eschew.

 

There is one very interesting prospect in the draft (That is in reach) that I think could add the needed pass rush that Colts were clamoring for

 

Brian Burns

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-pff-film-room-brian-burns

 

I project him to go in the teens (multiple mock drafts have him there as well)

 

A 6'5" 4.5 40 DE, with long arms and some pass rush moves already, plays the run well, so can be a 3 down player

 

He ran the 4 5 forty with 249Lbs.  He appears to have the frame to add another 15-20 lbs

 

He was the guy on the Florida line that drew the double teams this past year

 

 

Running a mostly zone cover scheme, the life (and death) of this defense is

PASS RUSH........

 

That DE pass rusher has yet to emerge on this team

MAYBE its Turay. - My gut says that he will be good but not that star that is needed

 

We have some very good players at 3 tech,  Autry, Lewis, and Ward (everyone seems to forget the pressure WARD was putting on) to develop.  We COULD use a 1 or 3 tech rotational guy like Tillery who could rotate in with Hunt at 26...........

 

But......... my gut says (my "gut" talks too much)......... we STILL need that true difference maker at DE

 

I  THINK that Brian Burns may actually be (or has a decent chance to) to be THAT guy

 

I realize that CB stated something to the tune of "I like those picks" when asked if he would consider trading picks to improve

 

That doesnt mean that he WONT trade that a pick to move up

 

 

I wouldnt be surprised if we packaged one of our 2nds with our 1st to move up in the teens and get our DE of the future

 

Its a CRITICAL spot.....

 

And....... Can we just say it now?

 

CB will absolutely NOT get in a bidding war for a needed star FA DEs (the rare few that arent tagged)

 

If we are going to get a NEEDED star DE..........  It HAS to come from the draft

 

As long as we have a healthy Luck, our chances are slim to none to draft early enough to get a blue chipper DE

 

Just a thought

 

My gut will be quiet...... for a few minutes at least  :)

 

Deano

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

 

It was reported last year that the Colts were considering moving up to take Chubb from 6th pick to take Bradley Chubb

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Bolt/Report-Denver-Broncos-turned-down-huge-trade-package-from-Bills-to-draft-Bradley-Chubb-117880925/

 

From Article:

Per Klis, the Colts, picking sixth overall, phoned Denver about moving up a spot for Chubb. No way, said Elway, who admitted last Thursday the former North Carolina State defensive end was too irresistible to eschew.

 

There is one very interesting prospect in the draft (That is in reach) that I think could add the needed pass rush that Colts were clamoring for

 

Brian Burns

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-pff-film-room-brian-burns

 

I project him to go in the teens (multiple mock drafts have him there as well)

 

A 6'5" 4.5 40 DE, with long arms and some pass rush moves already, plays the run well, so can be a 3 down player

 

He ran the 4 5 forty with 249Lbs.  He appears to have the frame to add another 15-20 lbs

 

He was the guy on the Florida line that drew the double teams this past year

 

 

Running a mostly zone cover scheme, the life (and death) of this defense is

PASS RUSH........

 

That DE pass rusher has yet to emerge on this team

MAYBE its Turay. - My gut says that he will be good but not that star that is needed

 

We have some very good players at 3 tech,  Autry, Lewis, and Ward (everyone seems to forget the pressure WARD was putting on) to develop.  We COULD use a 1 or 3 tech rotational guy like Tillery who could rotate in with Hunt at 26...........

 

But......... my gut says (my "gut" talks too much)......... we STILL need that true difference maker at DE

 

I  THINK that Brian Burns may actually be (or has a decent chance to) be THAT guy

 

I realize that CB stated something to the tune of "I like those picks" when asked if he would consider trading picks to improve

 

That doesnt mean that he WONT trade that a to move up

 

 

I wouldnt be surprised if we packaged one of our 2nds with our 1st to move up in the teens and get our DE of the future

 

Its a CRITICAL spot.....

 

And....... Can we just say it now?

 

CB will not get in a bidding war for star FA DEs (the rare few that arent tagged)

 

If we are going to get a NEEDED star DE..........  It HAS to come from the draft

 

As long as we have a healthy Luck, our chances are slim to none to draft early enough to get a blue chipper DE

 

Just a thought

 

 

 

 

Eh I’m not sure I buy that. If we’d wanted Chubb, we wouldn’t have traded out of number 3 to begin with. Which would have left us ahead of Denver to begin with

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5 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Eh I’m not sure I buy that. If we’d wanted Chubb, we wouldn’t have traded out of number 3 to begin with. Which would have left us ahead of Denver to begin with

The difference?

 

2 EXTREMELY VALUABLE second round picks from the Jets

 

If the call to Denver didnt happen......

 

and the response was VERY specific, which if you notice, CB didnt deny, 

 

This is a trade option..... probably not going to happen

 

CB has stopped calling me for advice

 

But this OLD Texan would be cheering it!

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7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Elway did us a favor, Nelson>Chubb. I am so glad we took Nelson. 

I absolutely agree

 

But the thread has NOTHING to do with a Chubb vs Nelson discussion

 

I will take a possible HOF player (long way to go, for that) vs a probowl DE

10 times out of 10 times..... but.......thats 100% hindsight

 

But....... if the report last year is true........ CB at least considered the trade up scenario for a DE in the draft

 

Maybe he will consider it again

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40 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

The difference?

 

2 EXTREMELY VALUABLE second round picks from the Jets

 

If the call to Denver didnt happen......

 

and the response was VERY specific, which if you notice, CB didnt deny, 

 

This is a trade option..... probably not going to happen

 

CB has stopped calling me for advice

 

But this OLD Texan would be cheering it!

That makes no sense. We trade back with the jets only to give them to the Broncos? We would have dropped two spots and gained nothing.

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Big jump from where they are at to get to the teens.  Would have to give up next years first.  I can’t support that.

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56 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

 

It was reported last year that the Colts were considering moving up to take Chubb from 6th pick to take Bradley Chubb

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Bolt/Report-Denver-Broncos-turned-down-huge-trade-package-from-Bills-to-draft-Bradley-Chubb-117880925/

 

From Article:

Per Klis, the Colts, picking sixth overall, phoned Denver about moving up a spot for Chubb. No way, said Elway, who admitted last Thursday the former North Carolina State defensive end was too irresistible to eschew.

 

There is one very interesting prospect in the draft (That is in reach) that I think could add the needed pass rush that Colts were clamoring for

 

Brian Burns

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-pff-film-room-brian-burns

 

I project him to go in the teens (multiple mock drafts have him there as well)

 

A 6'5" 4.5 40 DE, with long arms and some pass rush moves already, plays the run well, so can be a 3 down player

 

He ran the 4 5 forty with 249Lbs.  He appears to have the frame to add another 15-20 lbs

 

He was the guy on the Florida line that drew the double teams this past year

 

 

Running a mostly zone cover scheme, the life (and death) of this defense is

PASS RUSH........

 

That DE pass rusher has yet to emerge on this team

MAYBE its Turay. - My gut says that he will be good but not that star that is needed

 

We have some very good players at 3 tech,  Autry, Lewis, and Ward (everyone seems to forget the pressure WARD was putting on) to develop.  We COULD use a 1 or 3 tech rotational guy like Tillery who could rotate in with Hunt at 26...........

 

But......... my gut says (my "gut" talks too much)......... we STILL need that true difference maker at DE

 

I  THINK that Brian Burns may actually be (or has a decent chance to) to be THAT guy

 

I realize that CB stated something to the tune of "I like those picks" when asked if he would consider trading picks to improve

 

That doesnt mean that he WONT trade that a pick to move up

 

 

I wouldnt be surprised if we packaged one of our 2nds with our 1st to move up in the teens and get our DE of the future

 

Its a CRITICAL spot.....

 

And....... Can we just say it now?

 

CB will absolutely NOT get in a bidding war for a needed star FA DEs (the rare few that arent tagged)

 

If we are going to get a NEEDED star DE..........  It HAS to come from the draft

 

As long as we have a healthy Luck, our chances are slim to none to draft early enough to get a blue chipper DE

 

Just a thought

 

My gut will be quiet...... for a few minutes at least  :)

 

Deano

 

 

 

 

 

 Wordy hypothetical, considering he hypothetically isn't that high on Ballard's draft board. 

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1 minute ago, Narcosys said:

That makes no sense. We trade back with the jets only to give them to the Broncos? We would have dropped two spots and gained nothing.

 

 

We (you and I) dont know WHAT was offered as a trade up 

 

It appears a call to trade from our spot DID occur to Denver

 

Maybe it was a player, maybe it was a future draft pick, maybe it was a combination of choices

 

Neither one of us will EVER know.......  Speculation is just that

 

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4 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

 

The weight bothers me.  I keep thinking leonard Floyd for the bears.  If he can add 15 to 20 and keep his speed it could work.  He played at what 220 and has already gained 19.  Gaining 40 (from the 220) is a lot to ask and to maintain the same speed doesn’t seem likely.    Still if we take him I’ll be behind it. He just looked so thin at the combine.  

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I would entertain the idea of giving our 1st and the late 2nd (not the early 2nd from the Jets!) to move up in the first round if a quality pass rusher fall far enough. I think Ballard would be aboard that too.

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1 minute ago, Nate! said:

Big jump from where they are at to get to the teens.  Would have to give up next years first.  I can’t support that.

Actually, ......... If you use the draft trade value, that supposedly many teams use.........

 

http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

 

You can come up with some interesting scenarios

 

Lets say that we need to move up to Carolina's pick at 16 to take Burns

 

According to the chart, this pick is worth 1000 

 

The Colts 26th pick is worth 700

 

Our 2nd , 2nd round pick at 59th is actually worth 310 pts

 

We could offer our 26th and 59th pick for Carolina's 16th pick

 

If needed..... you could throw in a 6th to make it worth the while

 

Per the chart

 

Colts 1st, 2nd (59), and 6th (11.5 pts) - Total Given up - 1021.5

Carolina pick 16th - Total Given up - 1000 

 

Its not that outlandish....... And no future 1s have to be given up

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

The difference?

 

2 EXTREMELY VALUABLE second round picks from the Jets

 

If the call to Denver didnt happen......

 

and the response was VERY specific, which if you notice, CB didnt deny, 

 

This is a trade option..... probably not going to happen

 

CB has stopped calling me for advice

 

But this OLD Texan would be cheering it!

Which we'd likely had to use to trade back up. So again, I question the validity of this report.

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4 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Actually, ......... If you use the draft trade value, that supposedly many teams use.........

 

http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

 

You can come up with some interesting scenarios

 

Lets say that we need to move up to Carolina's pick at 16 to take Burns

 

According to the chart, this pick is worth 1000 

 

The Colts 26th pick is worth 700

 

Our 2nd , 2nd round pick at 59th is actually worth 310 pts

 

We could offer our 26th and 59th pick for Carolina's 16th pick

 

If needed..... you could throw in a 6th to make it worth the while

 

Per the chart

 

Colts 1st, 2nd (59), and 6th (11.5 pts) - Total Given up - 1021.5

Carolina pick 16th - Total Given up - 1000 

 

Its not that outlandish....... And no future 1s have to be given up

 

 

 

 

 

:)

 

Here is the link with with Colts selected:

 

http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=Ind

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15 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

 

 

We (you and I) dont know WHAT was offered as a trade up 

 

It appears a call to trade from our spot DID occur to Denver

 

Maybe it was a player, maybe it was a future draft pick, maybe it was a combination of choices

 

Neither one of us will EVER know.......  Speculation is just that

 

It may have been as simple a call as "hey, you interested in trading 1sts? " 

7 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Actually, ......... If you use the draft trade value, that supposedly many teams use.........

 

http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

 

You can come up with some interesting scenarios

 

Lets say that we need to move up to Carolina's pick at 16 to take Burns

 

According to the chart, this pick is worth 1000 

 

The Colts 26th pick is worth 700

 

Our 2nd , 2nd round pick at 59th is actually worth 310 pts

 

We could offer our 26th and 59th pick for Carolina's 16th pick

 

If needed..... you could throw in a 6th to make it worth the while

 

Per the chart

 

Colts 1st, 2nd (59), and 6th (11.5 pts) - Total Given up - 1021.5

Carolina pick 16th - Total Given up - 1000 

 

Its not that outlandish....... And no future 1s have to be given up

 

 

 

 

I'd be okay with something like that.

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16 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

 

 

We (you and I) dont know WHAT was offered as a trade up 

 

It appears a call to trade from our spot DID occur to Denver

 

Maybe it was a player, maybe it was a future draft pick, maybe it was a combination of choices

 

Neither one of us will EVER know.......  Speculation is just that

 

Fair

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7 minutes ago, Mr.NotSoCreative said:

Burns, Sweat, Tillery, Ferril could all be available at 26. I also have us taking Winovich in the 2nd-3rd rd.

Burns and Sweat will be LONG gone by 26 IMHO

 

I actually very much like Ferrell. He plays the run and pass equally well...... 

I also think he will be gone by 26

 

I also very much like like Tillary, but think about it

 

Tillary at 3 tech will take reps away from Lewis, Autry, and Ward.......  

 

Lewis can play both DE and UT

 

I like Tillary ....... I would be VERY happy with him at 26...... but is 1 tech a big enough need at this point?

 

Our biggest hole?  Pass rush DE...... I STILL believe that the top 5 will ALL be gone by 26

 

I also like Winowich, (even though the smell of UM may take a few years to remove :) )

He seems to be a CB kinda guy

 

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28 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Wordy hypothetical, considering he hypothetically isn't that high on Ballard's draft board. 

Of course

 

Its a slow day....nothing to do....... so my hypothetical..... "what if"......... keyboard is in play

 

At least its not a hypothetical ........WHAT IF WE TRADED LUCK?? type thread  :)

 

I would think that Burns would almost have to appear on (I almost said Polian) CBs draft board

 

The guy keeps saying........ "We need pass rush".... "build the lines"........

 

SURELY Burns is early on that list

 

 

It will be an interesting few weeks

 

 

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5 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Burns and Sweat will be LONG gone by 26 IMHO

 

I actually very much like Ferrell. He plays the run and pass equally well...... 

I also think he will be gone by 26

 

I also very much like like Tillary, but think about it

 

Tillary at 3 tech will take reps away from Lewis, Autry, and Ward.......  

 

Lewis can play both DE and UT

 

I like Tillary ....... I would be VERY happy with him at 26...... but is 1 tech a big enough need at this point?

 

Our biggest hole?  Pass rush DE...... I STILL believe that the top 5 will ALL be gone by 26

 

I also like Winowich, (even though the smell of UM may take a few years to remove :) )

He seems to be a CB kinda guy

 

Good points, especially with Tillery (ND  football is my #1 sport, then Colts, IU basketball). Just not sure CB trades up. Another guy I really like later is Joe Jackson. Looks very disruptive and Miami guys seem to fit well in Indy.

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39 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

The weight bothers me.  I keep thinking leonard Floyd for the bears.  If he can add 15 to 20 and keep his speed it could work.  He played at what 220 and has already gained 19.  Gaining 40 (from the 220) is a lot to ask and to maintain the same speed doesn’t seem likely.    Still if we take him I’ll be behind it. He just looked so thin at the combine.  

It bothers me too (A little), but the guy ran a blazing forty with the extra weight

 

I think the 220 listed on sights was from freshman and sophmore years.

 

he needs some time to develop.... but at 6'5" he would appear to have the body type to add weight to get to 260 or so.......

 

Also.....

The guy has a killer spin move that college kids normally dont have......

As mentioned he also is excellent vs the run..... 

 

The draft is a complete crap shoot.........  this kid is worth a small gamble, IMHO

 

In "normal" (Not loaded with so much DL talent) drafts he is a top 10 pick

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5 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Of course

 

Its a slow day....nothing to do....... so my hypothetical..... "what if"......... keyboard is in play

 

At least its not a hypothetical ........WHAT IF WE TRADED LUCK?? type thread  :)

 

I would think that Burns would almost have to appear on (I almost said Polian) CBs draft board

 

The guy keeps saying........ "We need pass rush".... "build the lines"........

 

SURELY Burns is early on that list

 

 

It will be an interesting few weeks

 

 

I agree that pass rush is the most important need but I don’t think burns is optimal or that he would trade up for him.  I don’t think he will trade up at all but If he trades up I think it will be for one of the monster dts.  

I think it’s more likely to see who falls.   Someone ranked high will.  They always do. 

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3 minutes ago, Mr.NotSoCreative said:

Good points, especially with Tillery (ND  football is my #1 sport, then Colts, IU basketball). Just not sure CB trades up. Another guy I really like later is Joe Jackson. Looks very disruptive and Miami guys seem to fit well in Indy.

I watched a bit of Joe Jacksons tape and  has some flashes, and then gets buried and blown out

 

He may be a hit with some pro coaching and some weight room

 

He may be a decent day 3 pickup

 

I truly think that we may get 2 or 3 defensive ends in this draft through early, mid, late picks

 

We are going to tap in a thumb tack with a sledge hammer......... 

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1 minute ago, MikeCurtis said:

It bothers me too (A little), but the guy ran a blazing forty with the extra weight

 

I think the 220 listed on sights was from freshman and sophmore years.

 

he needs some time to develop.... but at 6'5" he would appear to have the body type to add weight to get to 260 or so.......

 

Also.....

The guy has a killer spin move that college kids normally dont have......

As mentioned he also is excellent vs the run..... 

 

The draft is a complete crap shoot.........  this kid is worth a small gamble

It just crossed my mind that Ballard May have been on that bears staff that selected Floyd.   There may be some insight there.  I’m too lazy too look it up! Sorry. 

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My two cents.

 

A trade up in round 1 to get a desired player will be too cost prohibitive to make.

 

A trade back is more likely.  I think at # 26, the Colts are in a spot where teams who want the 5th year option on player (QB in most cases) make a move to get back into the first round.  I could easily see them adding more picks this year and next.  

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9 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

My two cents.

 

A trade up in round 1 to get a desired player will be too cost prohibitive to make.

 

A trade back is more likely.  I think at # 26, the Colts are in a spot where teams who want the 5th year option on player (QB in most cases) make a move to get back into the first round.  I could easily see them adding more picks this year and next.  

You may be 100% right

 

If the players that they want arent there, AND if they dont trade, they SHOULD trade back, especially at the 26th spot (if they can get value proper value)

 

2 second round picks are very impactful

 

 

I still want a difference maker at DE.....

 

it will be a long few weeks

 

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

My two cents.

 

A trade up in round 1 to get a desired player will be too cost prohibitive to make.

 

A trade back is more likely.  I think at # 26, the Colts are in a spot where teams who want the 5th year option on player (QB in most cases) make a move to get back into the first round.  I could easily see them adding more picks this year and next.  

 

Moving up is costly, but the extra 2nd gives that flexibility.  

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Ballard is clearly taking the approach that he wants to draft and retain his own players rather than compete in the FA frenzy to improve the team.  His near total non action in FA this year proves it. For that reason, I doubt he gives up a high draft pick to move up in the draft. He needs that 1st and two 2nds to improve the team. 

That said, I would love to see Burns on this team. 

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14 minutes ago, wig said:

 

Moving up is costly, but the extra 2nd gives that flexibility.  

S

 

14 minutes ago, wig said:

 

Moving up is costly, but the extra 2nd gives that flexibility.  

 

I keep coming back to Ballard saying “I like them picks.”  I think that is what he values most as a GM. Hard for me to see him paying the price to move up. Just look at what he did with the second round picks last year. 

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Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see us trading back and gain future picks again.

As far as a potential 1st round pick, I'd like to see us drafting interior defensive lineman, another linebacker and any position on the secondary.  We need playmakers. 

I think our most talented position on the defensive side of the football is the edge. 

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31 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

S

 

 

I keep coming back to Ballard saying “I like them picks.”  I think that is what he values most as a GM. Hard for me to see him paying the price to move up. Just look at what he did with the second round picks last year. 

 

He also talks about building the lines and how important pass rush is.  If he sees someone as a true difference maker that he could only get by moving up, the cost is reasonable and there is a big drop off in talent after, I think he'd do it with little hesitation. 

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And that is the $64,000 question

 

Where is Burns on the CB list......?

 

If he is MEH, we will probably stay at 26 and draft BPA (DL.... I hope)

 

But...... if he sees him as a priority pass rusher, he may make a move

 

 

That is...... if the 3 first round picks for Briskett doesn't materialize  :)

 

 

 

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I have zero clue about moving up or back, but I think we're a few upgrades away from competing for the SB. We need a pass rush (which I think will translate to making our DBs look better), and we need a stretch WR that can keep TY out of double coverage. Luck had to work way to hard last year to do what he did. Our DB's lives would be a hell of a lot easier with a little more pressure on the QB.

 

Luck isn't going to get younger, so I have think Ballard sees the next three years as prime opportunity to make a run. With the cap space, I was a little surprised we didn't go bigger in FA. I guess I just don't see (hope is more the word) us moving lower than 26 as the rush guys start to get thin in that space. 

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If he can trade Brissett for a 3rd that would give him more ammunition to consider a big move up.  Especially if it's a high 3rd.  If he doesn't acquire more picks than the most I can see him moving up is 3 or 4 spots. 

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The way last year's picks worked out, I almost feel like the Jets' 2nd round pick is house money.  So if you can trade that & pick 26 to move up & get a top pass rusher, I think you almost have to do it.  

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I’m pretty sure Chris Ballard had said he really values picks. I think he stays put.

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10 minutes ago, a06cc said:

I’m pretty sure Chris Ballard had said he really values picks. I think he stays put.

What does that mean though. Valuing picks could mean you like them so you can create leverage and maybe move up to get that desired player. Valuing might not mean you always want a player with that pick. Having a lot of picks gives you a ton of options.

 

I kind of agree If you can trade up this year to get that DE you do it. It’s not like we are going to get a very high pick in the future if we continue to get better. This would be the year to do it.

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I guess this begs the question, "Who would Ballard love that much to move up for?"

 

I feel like with Ballard's patience it would take a mighty fall of a Top 10 player for him to entertain a trade-up.  Pretty much all of the Top-5 edge prospects would be gone by the early-to-mid teens, so anything prior to 17 starts getting pretty expensive.  

 

That being said, the GIANTS now own 17 so between their picks and ours it wouldn't be hard to hammer out an equitable deal.  

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