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Improved or status Q ?


ThorstenDenmark

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2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

why is that funny?

 

Because you really don’t understand this franchise. The owner, GM, head coach and chemistry of this team.   Bell was never in Ballard’s plans.  

 

Marlon Mack will have a better season than Bell in 2019.  And he costs pennies on the dollar   And I’m not a Mack fan but he’s growing on me 

 

it it would’ve been a foolish waste of money 

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1 minute ago, DerekDiggler said:

Because you really don’t understand this franchise. The owner, GM, head coach and chemistry of this team.   Bell was never in Ballard’s plans.  

 

Marlon Mack will have a better season than Bell in 2019.  And he costs pennies on the dollar   And I’m not a Mack fan but he’s growing on me 

 

it it would’ve been a foolish waste of money 

i never said i thought he would sign him, and i dont think for a second mack will have a better year than bell.  mack hasnt come close to the numbers bell puts up every year both rushing and receiving 

 

you asked what i would have done so i told you.  if we win a super bowl this year you can say i told you so

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How do people still not get it? There are countless links to Ballard’s team building philosophy and  FA strategy It hasn’t changed since the day he walked through the door.  

HE IS NEVER GOING TO OVER PAY IN FREE AGENCY!!

It’s not going to happen not this year not next year not ever. If you think that’s the way to the trophy you aren’t going to be happy here. There are not going to be big FA signings. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i never said i thought he would sign him, and i dont think for a second mack will have a better year than bell.  mack hasnt come close to the numbers bell puts up every year both rushing and receiving 

 

you asked what i would have done so i told you.  if we win a super bowl this year you can say i told you so

And Trey Flowers.   90 m for 5 yrs for a guy that had 7.5 sacks last yr????  That’s a stupid contract.   And he was going to the lions period 

 

3 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i never said i thought he would sign him, and i dont think for a second mack will have a better year than bell.  mack hasnt come close to the numbers bell puts up every year both rushing and receiving 

 

you asked what i would have done so i told you.  if we win a super bowl this year you can say i told you so

If the Jets win the SB this yr you can say I told you so also 

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Just now, DerekDiggler said:

And Trey Flowers.   90 m for 5 yrs for a guy that had 7.5 sacks last yr????  That’s a stupid contract.   And he was going to the lions period 

 

he does more than just get sacks and bell is also a good receiver.  mack is terrible receiver  and you need to do that to be a great running back these days 

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9 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

And Trey Flowers.   90 m for 5 yrs for a guy that had 7.5 sacks last yr????  That’s a stupid contract.   And he was going to the lions period 

 

If the Jets win the SB this yr you can say I told you so also 

i'll do that if he has a good year,  the jets dont also have luck 

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I like the way Ballard is building the team.  I will be very  interested to c how he handles a player who is slated to get a big pay raise.  For instance Kelly.  He is arguably one of the better centers in the league with a lengthy injury history.  Will he franchise him, trade him, sign him to a big contract or simply let him walk?  Does Ballard have a limit on what he will pay for his own drafted elite players? Will he follow the Patriot model? Trade a player a year before he becomes a free agent. 

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yea i am a little skeptical, with Ballards lack of spending thus far..chances are after signing our own guys he will be forced to spend some money next year to hit the 89% mark or whatever.

 

Im not worried about it though, obviously he has a plan, and most of what he has done so far has worked to improve the team.

 

I dont think anybody was thrilled at this time last year either, Grant didn't really work out, but Ebron, Autry and Slauson really contributed and a couple websites had our 2018 free agent class rated the most valuable.

 

I wouldn't sweat it!! Also greetings from Canada, my mom is Danish and my dad Norwegian

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1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I like the way Ballard is building the team.  I will be very  interested to c how he handles a player who is slated to get a big pay raise.  For instance Kelly.  He is arguably one of the better centers in the league with a lengthy injury history.  Will he franchise him, trade him, sign him to a big contract or simply let him walk?  Does Ballard have a limit on what he will pay for his own drafted elite players? Will he follow the Patriot model? Trade a player a year before he becomes a free agent. 

that will be interesting, kelly was drafted by grigson though.   i think the franchise tag number is for oline in general, which will make it pretty high for a center.  they will probably use the 5th year option on kelly, hooker and nelson, too bad its not an option for leonard 

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In still not sure why some of you wanted to pay some of the players what they got the contracts were ridiculous. Some of them are good but had clear faults gets still made more than most at their positions. I'm very happy Ballard didnt pay Mosley his stupid contract same with Collins and I loved him and wanted him more than anyone. 

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26 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

In still not sure why some of you wanted to pay some of the players what they got the contracts were ridiculous. Some of them are good but had clear faults gets still made more than most at their positions. I'm very happy Ballard didnt pay Mosley his stupid contract same with Collins and I loved him and wanted him more than anyone. 

I can't speak for everyone but for me the money is a secondary issue. I want to watch good players wear the horseshoe and whether they get paid $10m a year or $15 a year it doesn't matter to me. As long as we have the money to pay them and flexibility to move forward without ludicrous penalties while being able to sign our draftees then what is the harm?

 

The point of the game is surely to get good players into a good system and produce the best results possible. It seems that some people seem to behave like the point of the game is to be the cheapest possible team and scrimp every dime.

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22 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

I can't speak for everyone but for me the money is a secondary issue. I want to watch good players wear the horseshoe and whether they get paid $10m a year or $15 a year it doesn't matter to me. As long as we have the money to pay them and flexibility to move forward without ludicrous penalties while being able to sign our draftees then what is the harm?

 

The point of the game is surely to get good players into a good system and produce the best results possible. It seems that some people seem to behave like the point of the game is to be the cheapest possible team and scrimp every dime.

You cant blow your cap on players with flaws in their game then also be able to re-sign your own players. Mosely got paid way to much he struggles in coverage a lil yet he got paid like a elite all around LB. Collins is good but hes not perfect in coverage either yet hes being paid nearly 20 mil a year. No one said try and be cheap but paying premium price for average to good players is the stupidest move ever.

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I will say this.

 

If this draft goes terrible for Ballard. Yikes it will put the Colts behind quite a bit. 

 

However if this draft goes great for Ballard he continues to look like one of the best General Managers in the league and the Colts will take another step forward toward making a deeper run into the playoffs.

 

Im all for saving money for players. They will have to pay their own guys in the next couple of years. However you HAVE to hit on some draft picks like he has so far or it will not work.

 

We will see. If the Colts take a step back then there will be a ton of criticism and rightfully so. If they take another step forward this season then everyone is going to staying on or buying a ticket on the Ballard hype train.

 

I honesty believe this is a HUGE year for the Colts or seeing who they really are.

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I am surprised at the lack of discussion that includes development. If our team is THAT young, then with proper coaching and personal attention to detail, this team will be better simply through development....a lot better. Add in the fact that Ballard and Reich have created a bonded locker room culture where players feel responsible to each other, then they will work harder in respect to each other. Fans still just concentrate on the individual players as if they are "add on" power. When building a motor it's only as powerful as it weakest component. 

 

Give me a bonded young locker room that holds each other accountable over a locker room infused with "gun for hire" vets any day. 

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People also need to not set expectations really high next season we have a very tough schedule next year and we very well could struggle. It sometimes happens when you greatly overachieve in a season it wont be a reason to panic but I'm sure some of you will.

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9 minutes ago, bravo4460 said:

I will say this.

 

If this draft goes terrible for Ballard. Yikes it will put the Colts behind quite a bit. 

 

However if this draft goes great for Ballard he continues to look like one of the best General Managers in the league and the Colts will take another step forward toward making a deeper run into the playoffs.

 

Im all for saving money for players. They will have to pay their own guys in the next couple of years. However you HAVE to hit on some draft picks like he has so far or it will not work.

 

We will see. If the Colts take a step back then there will be a ton of criticism and rightfully so. If they take another step forward this season then everyone is going to staying on or buying a ticket on the Ballard hype train.

 

I honesty believe this is a HUGE year for the Colts or seeing who they really are.

(I am responding to you, but more to this general line of thinking):thmup:

 

To the first bolded, I could not disagree more with this thinking. First of all it will be largely unknown how the draft went for at least a couple of years. Second, we could draft zero immediate starters and it could still be a solid to very good draft in the long run. 

 

To the second bolded, there will be a ton of criticism for anything less than a SB win because a good share of fans are spoiled, unrealistic, and lack long term perspective. Rightfully so? Maybe in your world, but not in mine. They deserve nothing but praise. They are building a long term...winning culture. And they are doing it with class and by following the actions that they preach. 

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7 hours ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

 

 

Kansas City :edit: looks even stronger already, and okay... The Browns also start looking like a football team ( not that the Browns will be any good, but they start to make some noise), like it or not, But the Jags now have a decent QB and New England looks like...well New England :worms:

 

Regarding Funchess, I do believe that he can help us, but Im really not sure if the Colts have become a much better and improved team so far or it's Status Q?

 

With $77 million dollars in cap space, I hope Ballard can find someone in week two or three of free agency, so we can get that defensive upgrade we still need. Without it, I don't see us getting any closer to beating Kansas or New England this year, but I might be wrong.

 

Kc got weaker. They lost a big part of their pass rush with Ford and Houston gone. Berry is gone. Their starting center is gone. Chris Conley gone. Hill might be gone. I bet mahomes doesn't look like the world better he did last season.

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5 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

People also need to not set expectations really high next season we have a very tough schedule next year and we very well could struggle. It sometimes happens when you greatly overachieve in a season it wont be a reason to panic but I'm sure some of you will.


This is pretty much what I came here to say. I'm completely fine with Ballard's spending, and even if we'd signed some of these huge names I'd still have the same thinking.

Of course I think our young guys are gonna get better (while some may regress, nothing's guaranteed) and our coaches more seasoned, but in terms of wins/losses it's completely possible we stay the same or take a step back.

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7 hours ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

Hello fellow Colts fans.

 

Living abroad in Denmark - Europe, and a die hard Colts fans for 20 years or so, I have never been so committed to a sports franchise as I am to the Indianapolis Colts. Heck I even got a Colts tattoo :rock:

 

In recent years I have been even more committed to follow both the draft, free agency and really started to get into the whole cap issues and whats ticking behind the scenes regarding signing free agents and so. 

 

Ever since Chris Ballard have made his entrance, I can only see positives and a newfound belief throughout the NFL and among other fanbases, that the Colts are heading the right direction. 

 

Suddenly your team have the most capspace and money to spend in the entire NFL, and you start thinking, will this be the year we sign someone special that can take us to the next level ?

 

And then we sign .... wait for it....waaaaaiiiiit for it....

 

Devin Funchess....:Cry:

 

Not quite the huge signing I was dreaming about or the player that I see could help us take the next step, especially not when looking at those teams we have to beat to take the next step. 

 

Kansas City :edit: looks even stronger already, and okay... The Browns also start looking like a football team ( not that the Browns will be any good, but they start to make some noise), like it or not, But the Jags now have a decent QB and New England looks like...well New England :worms:

 

Regarding Funchess, I do believe that he can help us, but Im really not sure if the Colts have become a much better and improved team so far or it's Status Q?

 

With $77 million dollars in cap space, I hope Ballard can find someone in week two or three of free agency, so we can get that defensive upgrade we still need. Without it, I don't see us getting any closer to beating Kansas or New England this year, but I might be wrong.

 

In Ballard I trust, but honestly... dude come on man... you got $77 million dollars to spend, so get on with it before people starts thinking about the 2021 draft with Trevor Lawrence.

Some look at what Cleveland is doing and think, we had more money, why didnt we do that. IMO they smell blood in the water, in their division, and are ready to take over. Pitt is falling apart, Ravens formidablr, Bengals, well... Good for them for striving to win their division. It is just not going to be sustainable. They have a whole bunch of guys on rookie contracts that they will not be able to keep in a couple years due to spending now. Same with Jax past couple of years. The Colts are already and have been the cream of our division and our sights are on bigger things and we have a much better approach imo. We are building for a sustainable, winning future. Build a core, build their skills, build a SB contender year in year out. You are right we need key pieces, but we also need to be able to keep them. Luck is our guy for a long time. Castonzo, TY, Kelly, are just a few guys that will need to be resigned in next couple years and have their "replacements" found. 2021 will be when we find those guys rather than Lawrence. Think Rondale Moore from Purdue to take the reins from TY. KC vs Indy will be a fantastic rivalry for many years and Patriots have only a couple more years in em. No Brady, no more dynasty. I know we cant sit on our hands with a fat wallet, but that $ will be very handy to have in the near future. Thanks for staying a big fan of real football btw, not futbol lol.

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21 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

You cant blow your cap on players with flaws in their game then also be able to re-sign your own players. Mosely got paid way to much he struggles in coverage a lil yet he got paid like a elite all around LB. Collins is good but hes not perfect in coverage either yet hes being paid nearly 20 mil a year. No one said try and be cheap but paying premium price for average to good players is the stupidest move ever.

If you're only going to sign perfect players you're going to  be waiting a while. All players have flaws.  

 

I agree with avoiding signing average players to top contracts but young, multiple pro-bowlers and All-Pros who fit our system? You're telling me you'd rather as the a team with Franklin and Geathers rather than Mosley and Collins? 

 

As for not being able to do that and still sign your own.....It's a complete fallacy. We could have signed both of those players to the contracts they've signed and still had THE MOST cap space available and also been able to cut them before Nelson and Leonard come due for renewal with less than $10m in dead cap space.

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6 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

If you're only going to sign perfect players you're going to  be waiting a while. All players have flaws.  

 

I agree with avoiding signing average players to top contracts but young, multiple pro-bowlers and All-Pros who fit our system? You're telling me you'd rather as the a team with Franklin and Geathers rather than Mosley and Collins? 

 

As for not being able to do that and still sign your own.....It's a complete fallacy. We could have signed both of those players to the contracts they've signed and still had THE MOST cap space available and also been able to cut them before Nelson and Leonard come due for renewal with less than $10m in dead cap space.

Why spend that money when there is like 4 S prospects that could be very good available around our pick? Walker wasnt terrible either so why pay Mosley. We need a LB and a SS that excels in coverage neither of which those two do. If Mosley was better in coverage than yeah I'd pay him it's what our team struggled with most last year covering the short passes and TEs.

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17 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

(I am responding to you, but more to this general line of thinking):thmup:

 

To the first bolded, I could not disagree more with this thinking. First of all it will be largely unknown how the draft went for at least a couple of years. Second, we could draft zero immediate starters and it could still be a solid to very good draft in the long run. 

 

To the second bolded, there will be a ton of criticism for anything less than a SB win because a good share of fans are spoiled, unrealistic, and lack long term perspective. Rightfully so? Maybe in your world, but not in mine. They deserve nothing but praise. They are building a long term...winning culture. And they are doing it with class and by following the actions that they preach. 

 

I understand your somewhat on the other side of the spectrum than I am here. I also do understand your take that a draft class needs a couple years to see how it plays out.

 

However I do NOT believe it is Super Bowl or bust at all, I do believe however that it is playoffs or bust. The Colts showed what type of team they can be last season, they had a chance to improve in FA and didn’t do much so far (I’m not against them saving the money or what they are doing). To me there is no reason to not make the playoffs as you did last year and anything else is a step back in the wrong direction. 

 

For your thinking, In general what would you consider taking a step back next year for the Colts be and for you to consider it going in the wrong direction?

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2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Why spend that money when there is like 4 S prospects that could be very good available around our pick? Walker wasnt terrible either so why pay Mosley. We need a LB and a SS that excels in coverage neither of which those two do. If Mosley was better in coverage than yeah I'd pay him it's what our team struggled with most last year covering the short passes and TEs.

Because you can get both. Proven All Pro players and then also good players in the draft. There is no on field benefit to having the most cap space by $30m.

 

There's a big difference between "not terrible and 4 time Pro Bowler. 

 

There were lots of issues on out team last year not just coverage.

 

If you are happy with a linebacker corp of Franklin, Walker and Leonard rather than Walker, Leonard and Mosley and a safety duo of Hooker and whoever rather than Hooker/Collins as we stand right now then all power to you.

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46 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

I am surprised at the lack of discussion that includes development. If our team is THAT young, then with proper coaching and personal attention to detail, this team will be better simply through development....a lot better. Add in the fact that Ballard and Reich have created a bonded locker room culture where players feel responsible to each other, then they will work harder in respect to each other. Fans still just concentrate on the individual players as if they are "add on" power. When building a motor it's only as powerful as it weakest component. 

 

Give me a bonded young locker room that holds each other accountable over a locker room infused with "gun for hire" vets any day. 

No doubt. It took us what, 6 weeks of the season for our new HC, D coord, O coord, to finally get it together with a lot of youth, and new guys. This team is already scary good, soon, scary great. 

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Just a little statistic for people that wanted Williams instead of Funchess. Williams has only 300 more career yards then Funchess. Funchess actually has more TD. They are basically the same player. Funchess is two years younger then Williams with much more upside. We will get there with this team. Have some patience. I will laugh if we go to the SB at all of you wanting to overpay for all these FA.

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32 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

Because you can get both. Proven All Pro players and then also good players in the draft. There is no on field benefit to having the most cap space by $30m.

 

There's a big difference between "not terrible and 4 time Pro Bowler. 

 

There were lots of issues on out team last year not just coverage.

 

If you are happy with a linebacker corp of Franklin, Walker and Leonard rather than Walker, Leonard and Mosley and a safety duo of Hooker and whoever rather than Hooker/Collins as we stand right now then all power to you.

The possible FA pool next year is supposed to be better so soci g it will be more useful next year than this year when the best available were players such as Collins and Mosley. And stop using pro bowle as a grading point that's a popularity contest always has been.

 

Good thing we still have the draft to add players even tho you seem to think we are stuck with the LB and S duo currently on the team. No matter how much your little heart believes it we were not a couple of grossly overpaid FAs away from the super bowl.

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15 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Just a little statistic for people that wanted Williams instead of Funchess. Williams has only 300 more career yards then Funchess. Funchess actually has more TD. They are basically the same player. Funchess is two years younger then Williams with much more upside. We will get there with this team. Have some patience. I will laugh if we go to the SB at all of you wanting to overpay for all these FA.

The nugget from this I like is that Funchess will be facing no2 CB's instead of no1's. His production should go up from that alone, as well as a nice end zone threat.

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2 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

I can't speak for everyone but for me the money is a secondary issue. I want to watch good players wear the horseshoe and whether they get paid $10m a year or $15 a year it doesn't matter to me. As long as we have the money to pay them and flexibility to move forward without ludicrous penalties while being able to sign our draftees then what is the harm?

 

The point of the game is surely to get good players into a good system and produce the best results possible. It seems that some people seem to behave like the point of the game is to be the cheapest possible team and scrimp every dime.

Very good points and one I have been talking about for a while now.

 

Sure, no one wants to overspend on players.  Even really good ones like Collins.  That was an overpay for a safety who is limited in how he can affect the game.

 

But there were players available, both in FA and via trade, that could have turned the Colts from right now who looks like a fringe playoff team to a legit SB contender.  And after all, isn't that what this is all about?  To try and contend for the SB every year?  It isn't to see who can have the most money in the bank at the end of the year.  

 

I think if the Colts had gone 5-11 or 6-10 last year, like they started out 1-5....then ok, don't break the bank and stay status quo with the draft and second tier free agents.  But considering the Colts finished strong at 10-6 and won a playoff game?  I don't see any reason why they could not have gone out and gotten one of the better game changers available.  A Bell.  A AB.  A OBJ.  Even a T Williams would have helped.  Luck has an injury history.  He is now 30.   He isn't a kid anymore. He has a lot of tread on those tires.  To stay status quo and 'hope' a SB window opens up 2-3 years down the road as it appears the plan is?  When Luck is 32-33?  I don't get that.  To me that is very passive thinking in the NFL-Not for Long league.  Whether we spend another $3 M on a player per year to bring in a stud is not going to make or break the salary cap, and it sure as hell doesn't affect our life in the least.  The owners and players all make great money from this sport.

 

We got better faster than anyone thought.  There is nothing wrong with adapting your approach to free agency as a result WHILE WE HAVE THE MONEY AND WHILE SO MANY PLAYERS ARE ON ROOKIE CONTRACTS.   Because in 2-3 years, when Ballard wants to be really good?  Those rookie contracts expire and who can we sign then?  Plus Luck will be up for more money.  We had a window here to add a couple truly elite players and we blew it.  Plain and simple.  I think we will look back on this FA period as a big big lost opportunity.  

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Ballard would of been stupid to pay a 27 almost 28 yo RB that much money. Why didn’t the Steelers wins SB if he made that much of a difference. They could not even win with AB and Bell. Why is it a shock he didn’t go after them. He has always made it clear what his strategy is.  Also FA isn’t over and won’t be until the season starts

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6 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Very good points and one I have been talking about for a while now.

 

Sure, no one wants to overspend on players.  Even really good ones like Collins.  That was an overpay for a safety who is limited in how he can affect the game.

 

But there were players available, both in FA and via trade, that could have turned the Colts for right now looks like a fringe playoff team to a legit SB contender.  And after all, isn't that what this is all about?  To try and contend for the SB every year?  It isn't to see who can have the most money in the bank at the end of the year.  

 

I think if the Colts had gone 5-11 or 6-10 last year, like they started out 1-5....then ok, don't break the bank and stay status quo with the draft and second tier free agents.  But considering the Colts finished strong at 10-6 and won a playoff game?  I don't see any reason why they could not have gone out and gotten one of the better game changers available.  A Bell.  A AB.  A OBJ.  Even a T Williams would have helped.  Luck has an injury history.  He is now 30.   He isn't a kid anymore. He has a lot of tread on those tires.  To stay status quo and 'hope' a SB window opens up 2-3 years down the road as it appears the plan is?  When Luck is 32-33?  I don't get that.  To me that is very passive thinking in the NFL-Not for Long league.

 

We got better faster than anyone thought.  There is nothing wrong with adapting your approach to free agency as a result WHILE WE HAVE THE MONEY AND WHILE SO MANY PLAYERS ARE ON ROOKIE CONTRACTS.   Because in 2-3 years, when Ballard wants to be really good?  Those rookie contracts expire and who can we sign then?  Plus Luck will be up for more money.  We had a window here to add a couple truly elite players and we blew it.  Plain and simple.  I think we will look back on this FA period as a big big lost opportunity.  

We will sign our own stars. Build through the draft and keep your own stars. That is how you win and stay good for years.

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28 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

The possible FA pool next year is supposed to be better so soci g it will be more useful next year than this year when the best available were players such as Collins and Mosley. And stop using pro bowle as a grading point that's a popularity contest always has been.

 

Good thing we still have the draft to add players even tho you seem to think we are stuck with the LB and S duo currently on the team. No matter how much your little heart believes it we were not a couple of grossly overpaid FAs away from the super bowl.

I don't think we're a couple of players away from a superbowl but the more good players you have then the closer you get.

 

How else can you grade top players other than All Pros? Surely the way we judge the cream of the crop? 

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

Ballard would of been stupid to pay a 27 almost 28 yo RB that much money. Why didn’t the Steelers wins SB if he made that much of a difference. They could not even win with AB and Bell. Why is it a shock he didn’t go after them. He has always made it clear what his strategy is.  Also FA isn’t over and won’t be until the season starts

we have not won a super bowl by being conservative either

 

i think its dumb to wait like this, it only shortens our window with luck, and it may never open at all.  we have a QB and Oline, i think its time to go for it

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51 minutes ago, Mr.NotSoCreative said:

No doubt. It took us what, 6 weeks of the season for our new HC, D coord, O coord, to finally get it together with a lot of youth, and new guys. This team is already scary good, soon, scary great. 

They are not scary good imo.  They have very few players on the team that I consider elite.

 

They benefited from an easy second half schedule with teams who had poor qbs.  Anytime we played a team with a really good qb?  We lost. 

 

We are a decent team the way we stand.   

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