FA Agency Day 2 and beyond.

[ColtsBlueFL]

51 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

A bad interview could also be a way to pick the team you want. If there is a team you don’t want to go to and you have multiple teams interested some players could give a bad interview on purpose. Or teams are lying to try to get the player dropped to them.

 

All kinds of things happen this time of year, rumors... rumors of rumors...

[CR91]

 

[CR91]

 

[richard pallo]

45 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Sounds like Frank still has concerns with our run game.  They did after all kick the tires on Ajai.  Kind of makes you wonder what they would do if Jacobs gets by the Eagles and Raiders and is there at 26.   

[stitches]

Every time Reich talks about running the ball I worry. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Running the ball is one reason the oline coach was fired. I think if Mack stays healthy we will get where he wants to go. We struggled when Mack and Kelly were out. It really should set up our passing game to be even better.

[richard pallo]

47 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Running the ball is one reason the oline coach was fired. I think if Mack stays healthy we will get where he wants to go. We struggled when Mack and Kelly were out. It really should set up our passing game to be even better.

I'm not sure how much our ability to run the ball played into his firing.  I'm more inclined to think it was the handling of the Denzelle Good situation and probably his personality not meshing with Reich's.  Mack staying healthy is a big issue though.  Do the Colts want to roll the dice and hope he can stay healthy?  

[CR91]

 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Every time Reich talks about running the ball I worry. 

why?

[stitches]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

why?

Because it's the wrong thing to focus on and he continues to trot out the same old disproven narratives when he talks about it(about it helping the RPO or play action game, etc)... 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I'm not sure how much our ability to run the ball played into his firing.  I'm more inclined to think it was the handling of the Denzelle Good situation and probably his personality not meshing with Reich's.  Mack staying healthy is a big issue though.  Do the Colts want to roll the dice and hope he can stay healthy?  

From what I read it had to do with schemes. The former coach was more of a pound it running game kind of scheme guy.  I think frank wants to use more of a screen game. I think the two were not on the same page as far as scheme. Having someone who agrees with what your trying to do is very beneficial.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, stitches said:

Because it's the wrong thing to focus on and he continues to trot out the same old disproven narratives when he talks about it(about it helping the RPO or play action game, etc)... 

ok just was curious lol 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, stitches said:

Because it's the wrong thing to focus on and he continues to trot out the same old disproven narratives when he talks about it(about it helping the RPO or play action game, etc)... 

The eagles did win a SB with Reich as OC.

[KB]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

Because it's the wrong thing to focus on and he continues to trot out the same old disproven narratives when he talks about it(about it helping the RPO or play action game, etc)... 

Wut? How would a stronger run game not help the RPO or play action? They're both based off of the defence biting on the fake run to open up receivers. A strong run game is also one of the most important parts of a deep playoff run.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[RNGDShobby]

CB has stated, multiple times that they really like the stable and think Mack can be a 3 down guy. Could just mean he wants him to get more yardage.
Could say the same about Luck. 'Yeah we like him but we want more'. Of course you do. You always want more.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

The eagles did win a SB with Reich as OC.

And this is relevant how? 

 

Look, I've said this before and I will say it again - I haven't noticed anything glaring in his playcalling and I do think he's pretty good at it. In fact I've been applauding some of this more aggressive decisions, precisely because they are for the most part analytically sound, even if not too popular with the talking heads and some fans. But hearing him emphasize the run game again and again and again gives me pause. I won't lie. It's not the noise I want to be hearing from our head coach. Is it possible it's just for show and his playcalling will continue to be solid? Sure. And I hope so. 

[stitches]

8 minutes ago, KB said:

Wut? How would a stronger run game not help the RPO or play action? They're both based off of the defence biting on the fake run to open up receivers. A strong run game is also one of the most important parts of a deep playoff run.

Because it's based on the THREAT of running the ball, NOT on the STRENGTH of running the ball. There are countless studies done on that. There is zero correlation between how good you are at running the ball and how successful you play-action and RPO passing game is. Defenses bite on it anyways... mainly because they play by reading run keys, they don't react based on how good you are at running the ball... if they see things that make them think you are going to run the ball they will react to it whether it's Trent Richardson running it or Zeke Elliot. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Reich is not saying he wants to run the ball more. I think what he is saying is he wants more yards per attempt. That rests a lot on the oline.

 

We struggled running with Kelly and Mack being injured. We might of been in the top ten of that hadn’t happened.

[PrincetonTiger]

10 minutes ago, stitches said:

Because it's based on the THREAT of running the ball, NOT on the STRENGTH of running the ball. There are countless studies done on that. There is zero correlation between how good you are at running the ball and how successful you play-action and RPO passing game is. Defenses bite on it anyways... mainly because they play by reading run keys, they don't react based on how good you are at running the ball... if they see things that make them think you are going to run the ball they will react to it whether it's Trent Richardson running it or Zeke Elliot. 

Wrong Wrong Wrong

 

   If you can’t run he ball the D will play Pass D , the same way if a basketball team can’t hit 3s, a team will see a lot of Zone D and if a baseball player can’t hit for power the D plays shallow

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Wrong Wrong Wrong

 

   If you can’t run he ball the D will play Pass D , the same way if a basketball team can’t hit 3s, a team will see a lot of Zone D and if a baseball player can’t hit for power the D plays shallow

The data doesn't support that. And we've had this discussion before... multiple times... the data won't change any time anyone tries to regurgitate that tired old trope that has been shown to not be valid: 

 

Here's a thread where we discussed that:

 

Here are some direct links:

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/rushing-success-and-play-action-passing

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/further-research-play-action-passing

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/situational-play-action-passing-nfl
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/can-nfl-coaches-overuse-play-action-they-havent-yet/

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, stitches said:

The data doesn't support that. And we've had this discussion before... multiple times... the data won't change any time anyone tries to regurgitate that tired old trope that has been shown to not be valid: 

 

Here's a thread where we discussed that:

 

Here are some direct links:

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/rushing-success-and-play-action-passing

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/further-research-play-action-passing

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/situational-play-action-passing-nfl
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/can-nfl-coaches-overuse-play-action-they-havent-yet/

 

 

I don’t care what some talking head says

     My actual on the field experience will suffice 

    

 

     

[CR91]

 

[#12.]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Every time Reich talks about running the ball I worry. 

 

It's like Ballard saying it's the organization's goal to rush 4.  I get it, but I'd rather both just say we'll do whatever works that week against that particular opponent.  If constantly bringing the house works vs. Mariota or Watson, do it.  If throwing the ball every down works against a certain opponent, do it.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, #12. said:

 

It's like Ballard saying it's the organization's goal to rush 4.  I get it, but I'd rather both just say we'll do whatever works that week against that particular opponent.  If constantly bringing the house works vs. Mariota or Watson, do it.  If throwing the ball every down works against a certain opponent, do it.

Those are often at least a week to week or even play to play decisions 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Reich is not saying he wants to run the ball more. I think what he is saying is he wants more yards per attempt. That rests a lot on the oline.

 

We struggled running with Kelly and Mack being injured. We might of been in the top ten of that hadn’t happened.

I think Reich said he wants a top 5 or 7 rushing attack not 20 where we finished last year.  We finished with one of the top OL's last year and still finished 20 with our committee approach.  I don't read it as blaming the OL.  Our backs are not getting the job done in his opinion.  He's harping on their lack of productivity.  He was gushing about the need of a strong run game to set up play action.  He is going to stick up for his current RB's.  He has no choice.  But if you read his quotes he is not happy with what we have at RB.  That explains the Ajai interest.  

[RNGDShobby]

As he said in his interview, if you take out those first 6 games, things would have been a lot different. Mack was one of the most productive backs in the 2nd half of the season.
Finished 7th on the season in YPG (including first game where he got injured).
908 yards on 10 starts. 
If anything, I think Reich is purely worried about his durability which is understandable.
Looking forward to seeing what he can do this year.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

29 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think Reich said he wants a top 5 or 7 rushing attack not 20 where we finished last year.  We finished with one of the top OL's last year and still finished 20 with our committee approach.  I don't read it as blaming the OL.  Our backs are not getting the job done in his opinion.  He's harping on their lack of productivity.  He was gushing about the need of a strong run game to set up play action.  He is going to stick up for his current RB's.  He has no choice.  But if you read his quotes he is not happy with what we have at RB.  That explains the Ajai interest.  

That number 20 doesn’t mean much with the Kelly and Mack injuries. I look at where they were after the 1-5 starts.  Maybe we need to get Wilkins some more carries to try and keep Mack healthy. Even though Hines is a better receiver he actually ran the ball pretty good.

 

judy because the oline was very good doesn’t mean it can’t get better. One of the reasons the oline coach was fired he wanted someone that had the same philosophy as him when it comes to running the ball and oline schemes.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[richard pallo]

53 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

I just read this as well and the 1st thing I thought of was this might be the best time to trade for DeMarcus Lawrence.  'Impasse'  is a strong word coming from Jerry's son.  Sounds like he could be inviting inquiries.  They can be hopeful all they want but that's not going to get him signed.  This has all the makings of getting real ugly for the Cowboys.  With all that is on their plate I would bet they would listen to an offer especially with them currently having no 1st. rd. pick.  It can't hurt to inquire and he certainly would fill our biggest need.  If Ballard thought about Ford there should be no reason not to think about Lawrence.  He is the much better player.  

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

The data doesn't support that. And we've had this discussion before... multiple times... the data won't change any time anyone tries to regurgitate that tired old trope that has been shown to not be valid: 

 

Here's a thread where we discussed that:

 

Here are some direct links:

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/rushing-success-and-play-action-passing

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/further-research-play-action-passing

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/situational-play-action-passing-nfl
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/can-nfl-coaches-overuse-play-action-they-havent-yet/

 

 

 

Sorry....   but it doesn’t matter what WE’VE discussed.   And it doesn’t matter what some next gen research shows... 

 

But what DOES matter is what Frank Reich and Chris Ballard think.   And Reich is on the front of the website right now in an interview saying an improved running game us the number one goal for his offense.   And that better play action means better passing and play action only works when the running game is good.   He wants to have a top-10 ground game.

 

And all the threads here disagreeing with the HC and GM aren’t going to change things.   

[CR91]

 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

Because it's based on the THREAT of running the ball, NOT on the STRENGTH of running the ball. There are countless studies done on that. There is zero correlation between how good you are at running the ball and how successful you play-action and RPO passing game is. Defenses bite on it anyways... mainly because they play by reading run keys, they don't react based on how good you are at running the ball... if they see things that make them think you are going to run the ball they will react to it whether it's Trent Richardson running it or Zeke Elliot. 

I think the first sentence is 100 percent false.   And I think the studies you have that say otherwise are 100 percent wrong.   And judging what Frank Reich says in an interview on the website right now, I’d say he doesn’t agree with your studies one bit.  And his is the only view that matters. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

7 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Sounds like Frank still has concerns with our run game.  They did after all kick the tires on Ajai.  Kind of makes you wonder what they would do if Jacobs gets by the Eagles and Raiders and is there at 26.   

You grab him....if you can.

If not look to grab his teammate a bit later. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

5 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Wrong Wrong Wrong

 

   If you can’t run he ball the D will play Pass D , the same way if a basketball team can’t hit 3s, a team will see a lot of Zone D and if a baseball player can’t hit for power the D plays shallow

Agreed.

.....and if you can't pass the D will sell out against the run. Like the Chargers did vs Lamar Jackson and the Ravens in the playoffs.

[krunk]

5 hours ago, stitches said:

The data doesn't support that. And we've had this discussion before... multiple times... the data won't change any time anyone tries to regurgitate that tired old trope that has been shown to not be valid: 

 

Here's a thread where we discussed that:

 

Here are some direct links:

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/rushing-success-and-play-action-passing

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/further-research-play-action-passing

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/situational-play-action-passing-nfl
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/can-nfl-coaches-overuse-play-action-they-havent-yet/

 

 

Why hasnt Reich gotten this memo yet? Reich who has been said to be very studious. Im sure hes not oblivious to this info.  Nor the other nfl coaches who have maintained the mantra for quite some time. You just dont like a good ground attack. He isnt talking about ground and pound anyway. I think thats whar you fear.

[NewColtsFan]

Here is the story with Reich's comments from the owner's meeting.

 

https://www.colts.com/news/top-takeaways-frank-reich-at-nfl-owners-meetings

 

And the key passage is right at the top.    I'll cut and paste.

 

» Improvement in the run game is the top focus for the Colts' offense in 2019: While Reich is thrilled to have plenty of key contributors back from an offense that was among the league's best in 2018, he believes the unit can reach new heights if it is more consistent running the ball.  The Colts last season ranked 20th in the NFL with their 107.4 rushing yards per game, and Reich said at the very least he wants Indy to be in the top-seven in that category in 2019. " I just have a really strong conviction of that’s what it takes," Reich said.  "In this day of high scoring, crazy pass offenses, and that’s all true, but if you look at the numbers, you gotta be good at running the football. There’s exceptions to that, but the percentages are with you... if you’re a top-10 rushing team, you gotta much better (chance to win).  Because your play-action game is gonna be much better, I know you guys have heard me say that time and time again. I really, really believe that."

[PrincetonTiger]

28 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Agreed.

.....and if you can't pass the D will sell out against the run. Like the Chargers did vs Lamar Jackson and the Ravens in the playoffs.

Making a team one dimensional is always the goal of a Defensive Coach but guys like Lamar and RGIII make things easier 

[EastStreet]

44 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think the first sentence is 100 percent false.   And I think the studies you have that say otherwise are 100 percent wrong.   And judging what Frank Reich says in an interview on the website right now, I’d say he doesn’t agree with your studies one bit.  And his is the only view that matters. 

I get it, you don't like advanced stats. So here's some simple things to think about.

 

Philly... who is a team that uses play action a ton (top 5 in play action %), was 7th in passing, but a horrible 28th in rushing. So play action is working very well for them with a really crappy running game.

 

You have to look at things in two ways. 1) how a DC schemes in general, and 2) how a position group reacts. A good running team will cause an opposing DC to game plan to combat the run. A DC will also scheme to combat a good passing team. Regardless of scheme, the position groups, especially LBs, react to what they see. A good play action fake will cause the LBs to bite, regardless of the opposing team's RB anticipated performance. Their job is tackle the RB, and if they think it's a run, they won't ignore it.  If the LBs bite, it opens up lanes, plane and simple.

 

In general, a good rushing team always makes things easier on the passing game. A good passing game also makes it easier on the running game. Respect of either requires attention. That's just common sense regardless of if you run a lot of play action or not. But, play action, regardless of rushing success, will require scheme adjustment (game plan), and if done properly, will cause the D to react (real time).

 

Philly's running game was bottom 5, while their passing game was top 10. Can you explain this? I absolutely want to improve the running game, but let's not act like we need to because it's required for the passing side of things to work.

 

 

[CR91]