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Anyone other than me think maybe we offer him a deal with most of the guaranteed money in year 1  

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7 minutes ago, dw49 said:

Anyone other than me think maybe we offer him a deal with most of the guaranteed money in year 1  

I would send an offer his way we need pass rush in the worst way.

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I still think it is possible we get him. There has been no rumors about him. I think we could afford him. I don’t think his contract would brchuge. His age you could probably get him on a two year deal.

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

I still think it is possible we get him. There has been no rumors about him. I think we could afford him. I don’t think his contract would brchuge. His age you could probably get him on a two year deal.

 

I wonder if he's a bit too much of a 3-4 guy ? 

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1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

I wonder if he's a bit too much of a 3-4 guy ? 

 

Appears so. Chiefs released him, and traded Dee Ford because they switched to Steve Spagnuolo’s base 4-3 defense. (From Bob Sutton's 3 - 4)

 

Why then, would Eberflus desire them?

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He would be good to burn through a bunch of cash and to let Turay and our draft pick pass rusher to sit behind.

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If Ballard doesn't make a move on either he or Berry, that will tell the tale.  He knows'em and knows'em well.

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11 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Appears so. Chiefs released him, and traded Dee Ford because they switched to Steve Spagnuolo’s base 4-3 defense. (From Bob Sutton's 3 - 4)

 

Why then, would Eberflus desire them?

There were talks of releasing Houston during the season, so they did not release him because of the transition to 4-3.  They released him because he would have cost over $17 million against the cap and he is aging and been injured off and on the last few years.

 

I mentioned in another thread about Houston, he would be a good role player for a couple of years, provide some pass rush ability as well as being stout against the run.  The only real question is, does he like to mentor younger players?  If he does he would be a good fit, if he doesn't he won't be.

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57 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

There were talks of releasing Houston during the season, so they did not release him because of the transition to 4-3. 

 

Why would they release him in season? As a vested veteran, his whole 14,750,000 salary was guaranteed at game 1 of 2018, and his 20 million cap hit locked in.  Maybe I read that wrong and you meant to say that there were talks 'during the season'  of releasing him at the 'end of the season'. 

 

Quote

They released him because he would have cost over $17 million against the cap and he is aging and been injured off and on the last few years.

 

He still costs them 7.1 million in cap for 2019. So they saved 10 million then?

And I feel the switch to Spags 4-3 was the final nudge to cut him

 

Quote

I mentioned in another thread about Houston, he would be a good role player for a couple of years, provide some pass rush ability as well as being stout against the run. 

 

He's an outside linebacker, and we often don't play with a SAM, just a MIKE and a WILL.

Where does he play then, hand in the dirt DE? How much will he command in salary having made 30 million is base salary over the last 2 years?

 

Quote

The only real question is, does he like to mentor younger players?  If he does he would be a good fit, if he doesn't he won't be.

 

I though Robert Mathis was resposible for that as pass rush consultant/player development specialist?

 

Anyway, Chris Ballard knows the positions and needs of our defense (lots of time under Lovey Smith in Chicago) and knows KC players, specifically Houston and Berry. If he thinks they are valuable fits that are healthy enough and still skilled enough, can adapt to our defense, and can be had at fair value $$, then he'll make an effort. I'm thinking he doesn't though.

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43 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Why would they release him in season? As a vested veteran, his whole 14,750,000 salary was guaranteed at game 1 of 2018, and his 20 million cap hit locked in.  Maybe I read that wrong and you meant to say that there were talks 'during the season'  of releasing him at the 'end of the season'. 

3

That's not what I meant.  During the season there were talks of Houston being released after the season.

Quote

 

 

He still costs them 7.1 million in cap for 2019. So they saved 10 million then?

And I feel the switch to Spags 4-3 was the final nudge to cut him

 

 

He's an outside linebacker, and we often don't play with a SAM, just a MIKE and a WILL.

Where does he play then, hand in the dirt DE? How much will he command in salary having made 30 million is base salary over the last 2 years?

2

I don't know the counts, I'm sure someone can look it up but from the times I watched the Chiefs, Houston started with his hand in the dirt on the majority of snaps.

Quote

 

 

I though Robert Mathis was resposible for that as pass rush consultant/player development specialist?

2

And Mike Phair is the defensive line coach that really has nothing to do with anything.

Quote

 

Anyway, Chris Ballard knows the positions and needs of our defense (lots of time under Lovey Smith in Chicago) and knows KC players, specifically Houston and Berry. If he thinks they are valuable fits that are healthy enough and still skilled enough, can adapt to our defense, and can be had at fair value $$, then he'll make an effort. I'm thinking he doesn't though.

No doubt Ballard knows the Colts better than we do, that hasn't stopped you from speculating who the Colts will or won't sign/draft.  It's not going to stop me from speculating or commenting on players.  

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We don't need him, he'd just take away valuable time from younger guys who are part of the future. CB is trying to build a dynasty, not win a bowl and never return like we did previously. 

We'll draft OL/DL high again and build the core of the franchise. 

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How so?  The design of the defensive scheme on the DL is to play in waves.

Guys are constantly rotated in and out.  It's not like they are going to be sitting

on the bench the whole game.

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38 minutes ago, rayski said:

We don't need him, he'd just take away valuable time from younger guys who are part of the future. CB is trying to build a dynasty, not win a bowl and never return like we did previously. 

We'll draft OL/DL high again and build the core of the franchise. 

 

A team ALWAYS needs pass rushers and depth at the position. Turay needs time to keep developing and getting stronger. I look for improvement this year but I doubt he's going to be ready to be a full time starter. We really have no pure pass rushers on this team and we aren't drafting high enough to get a guy who can probably come in day 1 and start. We need a stop-gap to help Turay and whomever we draft (I at least think we draft another pass rusher) develop and be ready to take over in the next year or 2. 

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3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

That's not what I meant.  During the season there were talks of Houston being released after the season.

I don't know the counts, I'm sure someone can look it up but from the times I watched the Chiefs, Houston started with his hand in the dirt on the majority of snaps.

 

And...   what technique? 1 gap, two gap, etc...  I just thought he and Dee Ford were stand up edge rushers and O lines could not always know which was coming, which was dropping etc.  Never knew they lined up in a hands in the dirt 4-3, or 5-2.

 

3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

And Mike Phair is the defensive line coach that really has nothing to do with anything.

 

Coaches coach, players play. 

Houston might be able to help them (especially lead by example) but that is not his job.

 

3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

No doubt Ballard knows the Colts better than we do, that hasn't stopped you from speculating who the Colts will or won't sign/draft.  It's not going to stop me from speculating or commenting on players.  

 

I just asked why the Colts would be interested in a 3 - 4 OLB  that is on the older side, has an injury history, likely expensive on the payroll, for the Colts 4 -3 shooting 1 gap?  Nothing more.

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30 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

And...   what technique? 1 gap, two gap, etc...  I just thought he and Dee Ford were stand up edge rushers and O lines could not always know which was coming, which was dropping etc.  Never knew they lined up in a hands in the dirt 4-3, or 5-2.

2

I don't even really know answer this.  No defensive player does the same thing every down.  Houston was just as adept at setting the edge as he was rushing the passer.  He can play DE in a 4-3

30 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

Coaches coach, players play. 

Houston might be able to help them (especially lead by example) but that is not his job.

 

Go read about what Ballard told Mitchell when he signed him.  He told him he wasn't just bringing him in the play football but he also wanted him to mentor the younger secondary guys.  And he did, the story about Wilson's improvement also mentions that.  

30 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

I just asked why the Colts would be interested in a 3 - 4 OLB  that is on the older side, has an injury history, likely expensive on the payroll, for the Colts 4 -3 shooting 1 gap?  Nothing more.

1.) No, you didn't just ask... you went on a spiel about how Ballard knows the Colts best, etc, etc.  The reason is that he won't be expensive and the Colts need a stop gap as the players drafted last year and (I assume) this year learn the NFL game.  Someone who can come in and provides effective snaps while in the game and can mentor while not in the game.

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I don't even really know answer this.  No defensive player does the same thing every down.  Houston was just as adept at setting the edge as he was rushing the passer.  He can play DE in a 4-3
 

 

Maybe, maybe not. You have not convinced me.

 

Quote

 

Go read about what Ballard told Mitchell when he signed him.  He told him he wasn't just bringing him in the play football but he also wanted him to mentor the younger secondary guys.  And he did, the story about Wilson's improvement also mentions that.

 

I'm not doing your homework, show me a link.  I believe he might have but show me.

 

Quote

 

  

1.) No, you didn't just ask...

 

Yes I did... in my very first post. Right here -

 

Quote

you went on a spiel about how Ballard knows the Colts best, etc, etc. 

 

That was in response to your response!  And you agreed he does afterward!  I am not stopping you from speculating or commenting, I am questioning whether he is a fit here.  And want to know why and how he is?

 

Quote

The reason is that he won't be expensive

 

Neither you nor I know what it takes in $ to get him on a roster, now or later.  I think the longer it goes toward the draft or even training camp, the price goes down though.  And at a certain level, might be worth it as a rotational guy if he can be fit in the scheme.

 

Quote

and the Colts need a stop gap as the players drafted last year and (I assume) this year learn the NFL game.  Someone who can come in and provides effective snaps while in the game and can mentor while not in the game.

 

I question his health and effectiveness.  He might have some gas in the tank (especially for a 3-4 team as a stand up OLB) , but I think he's a single digit sack guy at best, even if he stays healthy.  Like I said, Ballard knows this D, and that player.  If he gets him then he knows its worth it, and will trust him. (like I am with Funchess.)

 

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1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Maybe, maybe not. You have not convinced me.

 

 

I'm not doing your homework, show me a link.  I believe he might have but show me.

 

 

Yes I did... in my very first post. Right here -

 

 

That was in response to your response!  And you agreed he does afterward!  I am not stopping you from speculating or commenting, I am questioning whether he is a fit here.  And want to know why and how he is?

 

 

Neither you nor I know what it takes in $ to get him on a roster, now or later.  I think the longer it goes toward the draft or even training camp, the price goes down though.  And at a certain level, might be worth it as a rotational guy if he can be fit in the scheme.

 

 

I question his health and effectiveness.  He might have some gas in the tank (especially for a 3-4 team as a stand up OLB) , but I think he's a single digit sack guy at best, even if he stays healthy.  Like I said, Ballard knows this D, and that player.  If he gets him then he knows its worth it, and will trust him. (like I am with Funchess.)

 

Not sure why anybody would have to prove water is wet.  Houston is built just like our DE's and is asked to do the same things that our's do...and had 9 sacks in 12 games last year.  If anything, we'd sharpen his focus on what he does best and stop with the occasional ask to drop into coverage.

 

There are plenty of reasons not to pursue him, but scheme fit objections are just argumentative.

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5 hours ago, ztboiler said:

 

There are plenty of reasons not to pursue him, but scheme fit objections are just argumentative.

 

I have also mentioned other objections beyond that. Care to address those?

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7 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I question his health and effectiveness.  He might have some gas in the tank (especially for a 3-4 team as a stand up OLB) , but I think he's a single digit sack guy at best, even if he stays healthy.  Like I said, Ballard knows this D, and that player.  If he gets him then he knows its worth it, and will trust him. (like I am with Funchess.)

 

In all fairness, it's not like a bunch of DEs/OLBs are double digit sack guys. There were 22 guys that had double digit sacks last year. 7 OLBs, 4 DTSs, and 11 DEs. That's 18 from the whole league. Houston was just under the 22, and tied for 24th. 

 

Many of those OLBs were considered OLB/EDGE DE tweeners. He's got the same body profile. IIRC, Turay played upright plenty at Rutgers. So did a lot of DEs. 

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3 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

In all fairness, it's not like a bunch of DEs/OLBs are double digit sack guys. There were 22 guys that had double digit sacks last year. 7 OLBs, 4 DTSs, and 11 DEs. That's 18 from the whole league. Houston was just under the 22, and tied for 24th. 

 

Many of those OLBs were considered OLB/EDGE DE tweeners. He's got the same body profile. IIRC, Turay played upright plenty at Rutgers. So did a lot of DEs. 

 

Ok, so how much would you pay in annual salary for him to have the shoe on his helmet??

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39 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Ok, so how much would you pay in annual salary for him to have the shoe on his helmet??

 

I'd first ask him for an AARP discount, since he hit the big 30. Certainly would not offer big dollars and long years, but I think he's worth a good 2-3 year front load, with 3rd or 4th year option.

 

JJ Watt 16 , Von Miller 14.5, Kerrigan 13, JPP 12.5, Jordan 12, Campbell 10.5, and Atkins 10, will all be 30 or older this season. That's about a third of the double digit guys.

 

Also, in the 28 and older division, Jones is 29 with 13, Mack at 28 with 12.5, Cox at 28 with 10.5

 

That's half about half the double digit guys (28 or older).

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6 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

I'd first ask him for an AARP discount, since he hit the big 30. Certainly would not offer big dollars and long years, but I think he's worth a good 2-3 year front load, with 3rd or 4th year option.

 

I'm sure teams are, and why he isn't signed yet. What number will he and teams agree to? Eventually he'll come down enough to get a contract. He was due 32 million over the next 2 years in KC, and wouldn't agree to a pay reduction (making him untradeable too). Thus he was cut.

 

His knee injury history (and hamstring) are a concern, and he hasn't recorded double digit sacks since he signed his mega deal in 2014. I think there is some gas in the tank, and would fulfill a nice rotational role for some team (is that the Colts?) at the right (lower) price.

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10 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I'm sure teams are, and why he isn't signed yet. What number will he and teams agree to? Eventually he'll come down enough to get a contract. He was due 32 million over the next 2 years in KC, and wouldn't agree to a pay reduction (making him untradeable too). Thus he was cut.

 

His knee injury history (and hamstring) are a concern, and he hasn't recorded double digit sacks since he signed his mega deal in 2014. I think there is some gas in the tank, and would fulfill a nice rotational role for some team (is that the Colts?) at the right (lower) price.

I'd be very happy with a starter that was solid and got at least 7 or 8 sacks so long as he's strong vs the run too. He should be reasonable IMO given age and last year's injury. 

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It sounds as though most here believe he could help and that he could had for a reasonable price. I agree, but isn't the problem going to be that all other 31 teams are making the same evaluations and they may be willing to outspend the Colts. 

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13 minutes ago, sreeb2deeni said:

It sounds as though most here believe he could help and that he could had for a reasonable price. I agree, but isn't the problem going to be that all other 31 teams are making the same evaluations and they may be willing to outspend the Colts. 

Lots of factors to weigh with Houston. Draft is deep with Rush guys. Houston is aging and coming off injury. He might be a guy that goes quick, or a guy who goes post draft. I'd think teams would want to work him out for sure. 

 

A lot also depends on what he wants/prioritizes. Is he all about money or does he want to go to a good place with SB potential. Indy is pretty attractive to some. Others will just follow the dollars. 

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At this stage, I'm not at all worried about the price.  You can pay the guy on 2-3 year contract, no problem.  It's not as though you're choosing between Houston and Flowers or Collins.  It's not as though you're choosing between Houston and re-signing a core player.  One reasonably sized short term contract isn't going to put you into cap hell, and it gives the players you drafted in 2018 a little more time to develop.

 

Here's the thing about our pass rush: we got, what, 19 sacks from the combination of Leonard, Ward and Autry?  Who would have predicted that?  Will it happen again?  We hope so, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.  Just to be in a similar range to where you were last year you're gonna have to add some outside pass rush and Turay and Lewis will have to pick up their games. 

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To me, its simple

 

We need pass rushers, in a major way. It our SINGLE biggest need/hole that we have

 

If we want to win further in the playoffs, we have no choice but to improve our pass rush

 

When healthy he is better than anything on the current roster

 

He has played with his hand in the dirt. 

 

He had more sacks in a down year than anyone on this team

 

Is he 25..... no

 

Does he have the size to play DE in this defense....... YEP

 

Would our team be BETTER with him in a rotation from where we are today?

ABSOLUTELY

 

To me, if the money is right, and he wants to come here.......... The check gets written

 

Not saying that it will happen

 

But he COULD be PART of the solution

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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While it's true that Ballard knows what he wants to build the team more than any of us fans.  It seems, though, some fans though know what more what Ballard is looking for than other fans.

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On 3/13/2019 at 2:23 PM, dw49 said:

Anyone other than me think maybe we offer him a deal with most of the guaranteed money in year 1  

 

 

Thanks Newera , very nice of you to remember I posted that.

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2 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

Thanks Newera , very nice of you to remember I posted that.

Spot on! Now send some winning lotto numbers my way :)

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15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Spot on! Now send some winning lotto numbers my way :)

 

I'm 69 years old and the only thing I ever won was a turkey .

 

However I once bought a raffle ticket last minute for $50 to support our high school baseball team. I met my buddy as he was on his way to the drawing and gave him the $50 and never took the stub . The winner received a new Lincoln . Naturally he won the car ... 

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On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 8:40 PM, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Appears so. Chiefs released him, and traded Dee Ford because they switched to Steve Spagnuolo’s base 4-3 defense. (From Bob Sutton's 3 - 4)

 

Why then, would Eberflus desire them?

The Colts defense does not line up in the 4-3 or the 3-4 every play of the game. They have different schemes and different looks.

Houston will be a asset, not a liability.

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5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

The Colts defense does not line up in the 4-3 or the 3-4 every play of the game. They have different schemes and different looks.

Houston will be a asset, not a liability.

 

Never thought he'd be a liability, just curious how/when he would use him if Ballard got him.  I'm on record saying elsewhere in this forum I think he has some gas in the tank, and could be a decent rotational pass rush specialist (possibly even for the Colts), especially when a member explained he has had his hand in the dirt in nickel (about 70% of their D snaps I think they said).

 

At 12 mil/per year for 2, not a bad addition. Can he be that game wrecker from a wide 9 late in the game when we have a <1 score lead, time running down, and other team trying to drive in a 2 minute drill?  Can he pull a double team and let others (3 tech, etc) get one on ones to beat?  Will they use him much vs ground and pound teams? It should be interesting.

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On 3/15/2019 at 12:42 AM, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Ok, so how much would you pay in annual salary for him to have the shoe on his helmet??

 

I'd say about $12 mil per year for, oh I don't know, 2 years?

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2 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

I'd say about $12 mil per year for, oh I don't know, 2 years?

 

Sounds about right...  ;-)

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It's a good signing and a short term deal.  Ballard knows him well.  He had 9 sacks and 5 FF in 12 games last year.  If he stays healthy he will help the team.  Period.

 

In Ballard I trust.

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I wonder if the Houston signing means we are no longer interested in Lynch? I was actually really interested in his size and potential. But it depends on what's between the ears as to if he'd reach it. 

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52 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I wonder if the Houston signing means we are no longer interested in Lynch? I was actually really interested in his size and potential. But it depends on what's between the ears as to if he'd reach it. 

I doubt we sign Lynch now. I'd take him as depth IF the terms were generous. He'd be a very solid 2, and could challenge everyone not named Houston IF he's hungry and has his head on right. 

 

Lot of IFs.

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On 3/13/2019 at 8:40 PM, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Appears so. Chiefs released him, and traded Dee Ford because they switched to Steve Spagnuolo’s base 4-3 defense. (From Bob Sutton's 3 - 4)

 

Why then, would Eberflus desire them?

Houston has played with his hand in the dirt, he will be fine. Going from 3-4 to 4-3 isn’t that big of a deal. It’s when DE go from 4-3 to 3-4 where it can get dicey. 

 

OLB switching to 4-3 no longer have to worry about coverage. 

 

This is a non issue to me. 

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