Poll/Debate: Funchess

[krunk]

With all of Funchess supposed "dropping problems" and "drop rate" that you guys want to keep on bringing up I say this.  In Funchess best year he had 8 TD.  Nobody else you guys were talking about bringing in here got in the end zone that many times.  Not Humphries(who doesn't really get in the end zone much other than last year), not Cole Beasley, not Tyrell Williams(who is supposed to be this big deep threat).  In his 2018 he scored 1 less TD(4) than Humphries, and Tyrell Willams and he only had 44 catches in a down year.  Funchess 2018 numbers were basically on par with Tyrell Williams in terms of yards, catches and TD but the reaction would have been totally different had we paid big or bigger money  to get Williams.   I haven't even seen where the Colts even contacted Adam Humphries so I can't even say if there was ever any interest.  I saw some brief flirtation with Cole Beasley, but they passed on him.  Williams is still out there but I doubt he will be a Colt.

 

Give me the guy who can score the points, make contested catches and is a noticeable mismatch on almost any DB or linebacker.  Pairing this guy with Luck in this offense with this coach and OC I'm betting he gets closer to that 8 TD figure from a couple years ago.  His supposed dropping problems haven't kept him out of the end zone.   I don't think he's any worse than Ebron and I don't believe the coaches saw it that way either.  That's why they got him and passed on the other guys.

[Valpo2004]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

With all of Funchess supposed "dropping problems" and "drop rate" that you guys want to keep on bringing up I say this.  In Funchess best year he had 8 TD.  Nobody else you guys were talking about bringing in here got in the end zone that many times.  Not Humphries(who doesn't really get in the end zone much other than last year), not Cole Beasley, not Tyrell Williams(who is supposed to be this big deep threat).  In his 2018 he scored 1 less TD(4) than Humphries, and Tyrell Willams and he only had 44 catches in a down year.  Funchess 2018 numbers were basically on par with Tyrell Williams in terms of yards, catches and TD but the reaction would have been totally different had we paid big or bigger money  to get Williams.   I haven't even seen where the Colts even contacted Adam Humphries so I can't even say if there was ever any interest.  I saw some brief flirtation with Cole Beasley, but they passed on him.  Williams is still out there but I doubt he will be a Colt.

 

Give me the guy who can score the points, make contested catches and is a noticeable mismatch on almost any DB or linebacker.  Pairing this guy with Luck in this offense with this coach and OC I'm betting he gets closer to that 8 TD figure from a couple years ago.  His supposed dropping problems haven't kept him out of the end zone.   I don't think he's any worse than Ebron and I don't believe the coaches saw it that way either.  That's why they got him and passed on the other guys.

 

Lets not forget that Williams played his entire career with a far better passer than Funchess.  

[Four2itus]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

With all of Funchess supposed "dropping problems" and "drop rate" that you guys want to keep on bringing up I say this.  In Funchess best year he had 8 TD.  Nobody else you guys were talking about bringing in here got in the end zone that many times.  Not Humphries(who doesn't really get in the end zone much other than last year), not Cole Beasley, not Tyrell Williams(who is supposed to be this big deep threat).  In his 2018 he scored 1 less TD(4) than Humphries, and Tyrell Willams and he only had 44 catches in a down year.  Funchess 2018 numbers were basically on par with Tyrell Williams in terms of yards, catches and TD but the reaction would have been totally different had we paid big or bigger money  to get Williams.   I haven't even seen where the Colts even contacted Adam Humphries so I can't even say if there was ever any interest.  I saw some brief flirtation with Cole Beasley, but they passed on him.  Williams is still out there but I doubt he will be a Colt.

 

Give me the guy who can score the points, make contested catches and is a noticeable mismatch on almost any DB or linebacker.  Pairing this guy with Luck in this offense with this coach and OC I'm betting he gets closer to that 8 TD figure from a couple years ago.  His supposed dropping problems haven't kept him out of the end zone.   I don't think he's any worse than Ebron and I don't believe the coaches saw it that way either.  That's why they got him and passed on the other guys.

Krunk, you and I are leading the Funchess love train. Next stop....Devin shows the fight in his "dog". 

[lollygagger8]

TLDR

[JPFolks]

9 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Sorry, I disagree. The reasons have already been covered.

I am concerned with the one year deal but I am not assuming it is a bad signing till it all plays out.

The draft, then getting 90 players ready for camp. I be damn if I am losing any sleep over Funchess being signed.

Do you EVER lose sleep over something involving a football game? SERIOUSLY? If not, then what is your point?

 

We're here to have fun ruminating about football in the offseason.  Otherwise, it's boring this time of year while half the NBA is tanking, 6 teams are gearing up to predictably dominate while the others just hope they can win 1 series as the absolute crowning achievement they'll ever achieve in this era.  A couple teams at the top are yawning their way to the playoffs because they couldn't even care less what their seed is in the end. 

 

My point to all this is if we're not going to talk about the only guy of note we've signed outside the team this year, what are we supposed to talk about on a Colts message board where by rule we can only post about the Colts? (lots more to discuss on the FA board).  None of us REALLY care about how much billionaires spend on players, it's all monopoly money to real working people.  We can't discuss the training camp until we even know the players involved.  We can't discuss the draft this early until we know what positions we haven't shored up during FA.  I never understand why people attack PEOPLE here for reacting to something?  (Not you in this case, but it is everywhere online we all see it).  I want all sorts of theories and babble to amuse myself here, agreeing, disagreeing, playing couch-gm and now and then even learning something brand new.  Predictions by everyone at all levels are wrong most of the time which is why the NFL is the most fun league to follow, not even close to any other.  Even the hated Patriots make it more interesting because everyone outside of Patriot's Land is a fan of the team they are playing every week.  In the NBA, people don't even get excited about Golden State coming, even on the occasion they lose, it is a brief blip of fun and then a deep yawn.  

 

So regardless as to whether we sign everyone to great deals, bad deals or no deal, what sane person would EVER lose sleep about a football game?  That seems crazy.   

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

Do you EVER lose sleep over something involving a football game? SERIOUSLY? If not, then what is your point?

 

We're here to have fun ruminating about football in the offseason.  Otherwise, it's boring this time of year while half the NBA is tanking, 6 teams are gearing up to predictably dominate while the others just hope they can win 1 series as the absolute crowning achievement they'll ever achieve in this era.  A couple teams at the top are yawning their way to the playoffs because they couldn't even care less what their seed is in the end. 

 

My point to all this is if we're not going to talk about the only guy of note we've signed outside the team this year, what are we supposed to talk about on a Colts message board where by rule we can only post about the Colts? (lots more to discuss on the FA board).  None of us REALLY care about how much billionaires spend on players, it's all monopoly money to real working people.  We can't discuss the training camp until we even know the players involved.  We can't discuss the draft this early until we know what positions we haven't shored up during FA.  I never understand why people attack PEOPLE here for reacting to something?  (Not you in this case, but it is everywhere online we all see it).  I want all sorts of theories and babble to amuse myself here, agreeing, disagreeing, playing couch-gm and now and then even learning something brand new.  Predictions by everyone at all levels are wrong most of the time which is why the NFL is the most fun league to follow, not even close to any other.  Even the hated Patriots make it more interesting because everyone outside of Patriot's Land is a fan of the team they are playing every week.  In the NBA, people don't even get excited about Golden State coming, even on the occasion they lose, it is a brief blip of fun and then a deep yawn.  

 

So regardless as to whether we sign everyone to great deals, bad deals or no deal, what sane person would EVER lose sleep about a football game?  That seems crazy.   

You are over reacting to a sarcastic comment I made. That is all that was meant, No more.no less.

Honestly the Funchess signing is a mystery to most. Regardless what side you are on we can debate till we are blue in the face if we choose to. Very few opinions are going to change till pre-season. I already put that on the back burner.

Now let's roll Ballard do what you do.

 

 

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

16 hours ago, MFT5 said:

we didn’t pay him top 20 money there’s no commitment en the grand scheme he’s a lottery ticket 

 

For the folks that aren't digging the signing, & think that we overpaid, this should help.

 

[MFT5]

7 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

For the folks that aren't digging the signing, & think that we overpaid, this should help.

 

 

why did yu link me to this 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

6 minutes ago, MFT5 said:

 

why did yu link me to this 

 

Ah, meant to quote the post below yours. My bad.

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, krunk said:

With all of Funchess supposed "dropping problems" and "drop rate" that you guys want to keep on bringing up I say this.  In Funchess best year he had 8 TD.  Nobody else you guys were talking about bringing in here got in the end zone that many times.  Not Humphries(who doesn't really get in the end zone much other than last year), not Cole Beasley, not Tyrell Williams(who is supposed to be this big deep threat).  In his 2018 he scored 1 less TD(4) than Humphries, and Tyrell Willams and he only had 44 catches in a down year.  Funchess 2018 numbers were basically on par with Tyrell Williams in terms of yards, catches and TD but the reaction would have been totally different had we paid big or bigger money  to get Williams.   I haven't even seen where the Colts even contacted Adam Humphries so I can't even say if there was ever any interest.  I saw some brief flirtation with Cole Beasley, but they passed on him.  Williams is still out there but I doubt he will be a Colt.

 

Give me the guy who can score the points, make contested catches and is a noticeable mismatch on almost any DB or linebacker.  Pairing this guy with Luck in this offense with this coach and OC I'm betting he gets closer to that 8 TD figure from a couple years ago.  His supposed dropping problems haven't kept him out of the end zone.   I don't think he's any worse than Ebron and I don't believe the coaches saw it that way either.  That's why they got him and passed on the other guys.

 

It's worth mentioning, that in 2017 when he had 800 yards and 8 TDs, he was WR1. While the TD production was great (due to RZ targets), his play between the 20s was sub par. 800 yards is at the bottom of WR1 play. That combined with the drops is why they drafted DJ Moore last year as a new WR1. DJ went on to pass Funchess in his first/rookie year by 240 yards with pretty much the same amount of targets. In addition, Curtis Samuel in his second year had similar yards in 2018, with 25ish less targets. 

 

In short, he didn't work out as WR1, and younger guys were challenging for WR2 targets/yards. That's why Carolina passed on him. I truly hope Devin turns it around and excels with Luck tossing him the ball in Reich's system. I absolutely hope he balls out and helps us take things to another level. I just don't see him as a long term legit WR2. I see him has depth, and an additional RZ threat. Would love it if he proves me wrong. Regardless I'll be cheering for him to be a beast.

[EastStreet]

So looking at the poll trend after a day, C or C- on value, C or C+ on need/fit. Pretty consistent with all the talking heads.

[dodsworth]

I just read an article of 1 dropped ball per 8 targets or catchable balls

or something like that.

 

I have a tough time questioning Ballard but this is a huge head scratcher. 

[BOTT]

Believe he will do well thanks to Frank. I wouldnt pencil him in as the consistent #2. Frank may use him somewhat sparingly, yet effectively, as he did with Ebron before Doyle went down.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Believe he will do well thanks to Frank. I wouldnt pencil him in as the consistent #2. Frank may use him somewhat sparingly, yet effectively, as he did with Ebron before Doyle went down.

If you think that is all Reich is going to use him your crazy. Unless he comes in and sucks he will be the number 2. He didn’t sign a one year deal to barely play. 

46 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

I just read an article of 1 dropped ball per 8 targets or catchable balls

or something like that.

 

I have a tough time questioning Ballard but this is a huge head scratcher. 

You have to take last season out. There are a lot of circumstances that led to that.

[BOTT]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

If you think that is all Reich is going to use him your crazy. Unless he comes in and sucks he will be the number 2. He didn’t sign a one year deal to barely play. 

You have to take last season out. There are a lot of circumstances that led to that.

Yes, because I said he was barely going to play.....exactly what I said.

[EastStreet]

28 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

If you think that is all Reich is going to use him your crazy. Unless he comes in and sucks he will be the number 2. He didn’t sign a one year deal to barely play. 

You have to take last season out. There are a lot of circumstances that led to that.

No, you don't have to take last season out. He's had drop problems his entire career going back to college. His catch rate has never been great. Now you can say he's had bad QBs passing to him every year, including college, but that still doesn't explain why other WRs on the same team with the same QB, had better catch rates and less drops. 

 

We all just need to hope that Devin, for whatever reason, takes advantage of the "nicer" balls thrown at him by Luck and improves. I'll be cheering for him.

 

On the number 2 from Day 1 topic, it depends on what we do in the draft. Devin got passed up by the Panther's rookie WR by 200+ yards with similar targets. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I can already see it. He will have two drops all season and everyone will say he has s problem. Reich said he doesn’t mind drops as long as it doesn’t become s huge problem. He says as long as your making big plays it kind of off sets the few drops.

He had three drops in 2017. The panthers were a mess in 2018. You can’t say one receiver did fine so why didn’t funchess. There are different kind of receivers. I have no idea who this other receiver is. But was he a deep threat or a slot guy. That makes a huge difference with Newton’s injury.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Irish YJ said:

 

It's worth mentioning, that in 2017 when he had 800 yards and 8 TDs, he was WR1. While the TD production was great (due to RZ targets), his play between the 20s was sub par. 800 yards is at the bottom of WR1 play. That combined with the drops is why they drafted DJ Moore last year as a new WR1. DJ went on to pass Funchess in his first/rookie year by 240 yards with pretty much the same amount of targets. In addition, Curtis Samuel in his second year had similar yards in 2018, with 25ish less targets. 

 

In short, he didn't work out as WR1, and younger guys were challenging for WR2 targets/yards. That's why Carolina passed on him. I truly hope Devin turns it around and excels with Luck tossing him the ball in Reich's system. I absolutely hope he balls out and helps us take things to another level. I just don't see him as a long term legit WR2. I see him has depth, and an additional RZ threat. Would love it if he proves me wrong. Regardless I'll be cheering for him to be a beast.

It is always worth mentioning that Newton threw more to McCaffrey than any receiver.

McCaffrey had 107 catches, 887 Yds and 7 Tds. Add the carries McCaffrey had and that was 219 carries, 1,098 Yds and 7 Tds.

Last season was the Cam-Christian show and the other players just stood and watched.

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I can already see it. He will have two drops all season and everyone will say he has s problem. Reich said he doesn’t mind drops as long as it doesn’t become s huge problem. He says as long as your making big plays it kind of off sets the few drops.

He had three drops in 2017. The panthers were a mess in 2018. You can’t say one receiver did fine so why didn’t funchess. There are different kind of receivers. I have no idea who this other receiver is. But was he a deep threat or a slot guy. That makes a huge difference with Newton’s injury.

From a passing O perspective, Carolina improved dramatically in 2018 vs 2017 when Funchess was WR1. In 2017 they were near the bottom. Last year they climbed up to the middle of the pact. Newton had his best year ever in completion %, and a big part of that was drafting DJ Moore. Newton was 9th in % at 67.9. 

 

I don't mind drops either if the player is highly productive, and catches the ball when it counts. But...., it's not just 2018. Look at his catch rating his entire career vs WRs across the NFL, and the guys on his team catching balls from the same QB. If you'd like, I can post the comps.

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

It is always worth mentioning that Newton threw more to McCaffrey than any receiver.

McCaffrey had 107 catches, 887 Yds and 7 Tds. Add the carries McCaffrey had and that was 219 carries, 1,098 Yds and 7 Tds.

Last season was the Cam-Christian show and the other players just stood and watched.

DJ Moore (rookie WR) had a pretty darn good year. McCaffrey is as much WR as he is RB. Great weapon.

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

From a passing O perspective, Carolina improved dramatically in 2018 vs 2017 when Funchess was WR1. In 2017 they were near the bottom. Last year they climbed up to the middle of the pact. Newton had his best year ever in completion %, and a big part of that was drafting DJ Moore. Newton was 9th in % at 67.9. 

 

I don't mind drops either if the player is highly productive, and catches the ball when it counts. But...., it's not just 2018. Look at his catch rating his entire career vs WRs across the NFL, and the guys on his team catching balls from the same QB. If you'd like, I can post the comps.

 

1 minute ago, Irish YJ said:

DJ Moore (rookie WR) had a pretty darn good year. McCaffrey is as much WR as he is RB. Great weapon.

Funchess and his numbers went down because of the heavy use of McCaffrey. Not from lack of talent.

You can't bring up numbers without looking at the whole picture.

In all honesty wouldn't it be better to wait and see before assuming Ballard was wrong?

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

 

Funchess and his numbers went down because of the heavy use of McCaffrey. Not from lack of talent.

You can't bring up numbers without looking at the whole picture.

In all honesty wouldn't it be better to wait and see before assuming Ballard was wrong?

Devin's numbers went down because they drafted another WR, and gave him an opportunity to beat out Funchess for WR1. And he did by a good margin (200+ yards), and with a higher yard per catch. 

 

McCaffrey got 100+ targets in 2017 too. The difference was DJ Moore in 2018, not CM. The stats are crystal clear. 

[crazycolt1]

38 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Devin's numbers went down because they drafted another WR, and gave him an opportunity to beat out Funchess for WR1. And he did by a good margin (200+ yards), and with a higher yard per catch. 

 

McCaffrey got 100+ targets in 2017 too. The difference was DJ Moore in 2018, not CM. The stats are crystal clear. 

You can twist numbers any way you like them to support your opinion.

I don't share you opinion but I am not going to argue about it with you.

I don't need to write a mini novel to say I don't agree.

[EastStreet]

52 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You can twist numbers any way you like them to support your opinion.

I don't share you opinion but I am not going to argue about it with you.

I don't need to write a mini novel to say I don't agree.

I'm not twisting numbers. It's simple fact. And I support my opinion with facts.

Numbers are your friends. And no, you don't need to write a novel. What you did however, is support your opinion with a disproved assertion. Nothing changed dramatically with McCaf from 17-18 in terms of target or use. What changed was a new rookie WR inserted who had more production with similar target numbers.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Irish YJ said:

I'm not twisting numbers. It's simple fact. And I support my opinion with facts.

Numbers are your friends. And no, you don't need to write a novel. What you did however, is support your opinion with a disproved assertion. Nothing changed dramatically with McCaf from 17-18 in terms of target or use. What changed was a new rookie WR inserted who had more production with similar target numbers.

That is your point of view. I just look at it different.

You say Funchess numbers went down because of Moore.

I think using McCaffrey the way he was used skewed the offensive numbers. When total attention is given to one player when he leads the team on the ground and in the air it effects the numbers.

Like it or not IMO numbers do not tell the whole story.

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

That is your point of view. I just look at it different.

You say Funchess numbers went down because of Moore.

I think using McCaffrey the way he was used skewed the offensive numbers. When total attention is given to one player when he leads the team on the ground and in the air it effects the numbers.

Like it or not IMO numbers do not tell the whole story.

McCaf's targets were pretty much the same in 2017 and 2018. Nothing really changed with how they used him. Now if McCaf's numbers increased dramatically in 2018, then I'd agree with you, but they did not. The only thing that changed was that they added DJ Moore, who "proved it", and took Funchess's targets as the year went along.

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

McCaf's targets were pretty much the same in 2017 and 2018. Nothing really changed with how they used him. Now if McCaf's numbers increased dramatically in 2018, then I'd agree with you, but they did not. The only thing that changed was that they added DJ Moore, who "proved it", and took Funchess's targets as the year went along.

You insist having the last say, be my guest.  Means more to you than me.

Carry on.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You insist having the last say, be my guest.  Means more to you than me.

Carry on.

I don't need the last word, just find it interesting that you ignore pretty straight forward data/fact/stats.

[crazycolt1]

11 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

I don't need the last word, just find it interesting that you ignore pretty straight forward data/fact/stats.

If my opinion that data/stats don't tell the whole story of why things happen in every facet of the game of football I don't know what to tell you. Yes you can call something fact but without knowing why it's a fact it just sanitizes the game.

Sorry, you can have your data/stats and I will continue to think different.

Fair enough?

[chad72]

12 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Devin's numbers went down because they drafted another WR, and gave him an opportunity to beat out Funchess for WR1. And he did by a good margin (200+ yards), and with a higher yard per catch. 

 

McCaffrey got 100+ targets in 2017 too. The difference was DJ Moore in 2018, not CM. The stats are crystal clear. 

 

Lets not forget Curtis Samuel too, he ate into the target share. Plus you combine the fact how much Cam Newton runs, there’s only so many passes to go around.

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Lets not forget Curtis Samuel too, he ate into the target share. Plus you combine the fact how much Cam Newton runs, there’s only so many passes to go around.

Yup. Truth is, DJ Moore easily outperformed DF as the year went along, and others were nipping at DF's heels and getting more open. IIRC, his performance/catch% was so bad in the last 3rd of 2018, they pretty much shelved him the last couple games to let the younger guys get development.