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Official complaints about Free Agency thread (merge)


GusFring

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Ballard was literally asked about any potential cap problems it worries down the road.    He basically said they monitor the cap every day and they have no worries at all going forward.  Said he wasn’t worried at all.

Maybe he said that they aren't worried because......wait for it...... THEY KNOW THEY AREN'T SIGNING ANY EXPENSIVE FA'S!!!! lol.....  I kill me......whooooo.....

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The way the team was built last year was good enough to produce 10-6. But to play against the Chiefs, Chargers, and the Saints (just to say a few). With one WR who typically gets hurt and no pass rush. The Colts, well I am a Colts fan thru and through, but I am worried that they are building a wonderful locker culture and that’s it

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6 minutes ago, JR Indy said:

The way the team was built last year was good enough to produce 10-6. But to play against the Chiefs, Chargers, and the Saints (just to say a few). With one WR who typically gets hurt and no pass rush. The Colts, well I am a Colts fan thru and through, but I am worried that they are building a wonderful locker culture and that’s it

 

You reference the Chiefs, where Ballard helped build the roster... using the same technique he is using now in Indy. 

 

#WeAreFine

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Cap space is great..... but what if it's the bonus money that the team has to cough up that is leading us to be ultra conservative?  

 

I know CB wants to be conservative by nature, but Irsay's ONLY income is from being the owner of the Colts....  most Owners have a LOT more liquid assets than Irsay.  

 

It's not JUST cap space that is needed.... it's a whole lot of  cold hard cash that has to be paid with these huge bonuses....  

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8 minutes ago, tweezy32 said:

We will truly see where we are as a team.  Last year I believe we won because of how weak our schedule was.  This up coming year we have one of the toughest schedules.  So we will truly see where we are and can win. 

You do realize we had the best division in football last season record wise right? Our division was 35-25 = the best in the NFL and that was even with the Jags having a down year. I am not buying the weak schedule excuse anymore to why we made the playoffs. In the past I could buy it but our division was good last season. Also outside of the division we played 3 playoff teams = New England, Dallas, and Philly. 

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47 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Jags did all of that big spending last year like we did in 2015 and it got neither team nowhere after making the Title game the year before. I think we should spend and get more aggressive (the money is there) but just be wise about it. I am ok with not landing a player like Landon Collins for example. IMO he is overrated and can't cover very well. He got 6 years for 84 Mill, no way would I give him that type of money.

Look at the Browns roster, not just the offensive fire power, but now with Oliver Vernon to go with Myles Garrett.  I would say John Dorsey the GM is all in & doesn't want to waste any time with Baker Mayfield. What a concept?!  Trying to win when you have a chance in the Not for long NFL!

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I will say this, everyone in the media, here, etc wants to commend Dorsey on his FA acquisitions and aggressive nature. But let's also be realistic here, it is partly due to the prior regime's huuuuge emphasis on picks and the draft....very similar to Ballard there.

 

Cleveland started (finally) building the right way and they are in the position they are in because of their abundance of draft picks and because of their recent draft selections.

 

QB- B.Mayfield (drafted)

RB- N.Chubb (drafted)
WR3- A.Callaway (drafted)

TE- D,Njoku (drafted)

OG- J.Bitonio (drafted)

OG- A.Corbett (drafted)

 

They signed 3 OL (Tretter, Robinson, Hubbard) and now traded for two WRs (Landry, OBJ)

 

6 of their 11 offensive starters are home grown and 5 of them are on their rookie contracts.

 

DE- M. Garrett (drafted)

DE- E.Ogbah (drafted)

DT- L.Ogunjobi (drafted)

LB- J.Schobert (drafted)

LB- C.Kirksey (drafted)

LB- G.Avery (drafted)

CB- D.Ward (drafted)

 

They signed a DT (Richardson), CB (Carrie), S (Randall) and then will likely sign another S (maybe E.Thomas) and you can argue O.Vernon may or may not start but is a big piece (trade).

 

6-7 of their potential defensive starters are home grown and 5 are on their rookie contracts.

 

So when they make big spending moves in trades or free agency, it is because literally 1/2 of their starters are rookies they drafted that are still on their cheap rookie deals.

 

Their outside FA investments have been heavy on OL/DL (3 OL and 2 DL) and now two big moves in back to back years at WR.

 

Dorsey and Ballard are building the same way. Cleveland is just further along in being able to build that way. And Dorsey was gifted a treasure trove of picks. Seriously.

 

If Ballard had the War Chest of picks Dorsey had to work with then I could see him moving some. But he did not. So he is building the team up like this.

 

The Colts right now have 7 offensive starters that are home grown and 4 are on their rookie deals.

 

Defensively we have only 4 defensive starters that are home grown and all on their rookie deals.

 

In another 1-2 years that is when we will be able to do what Dorsey just did.

 

Right now you build smartly and you stack your team with starters in the draft on cheap rookie deals. Then you absolutely hit FA hard and when you do you go after OL/DL if you have holes and you explore the trade market (or FA if any great guys actually hit it) for some skill position guys.

 

At the end of the day, saying "Oh but Cleveland did this, they are not afraid to spend or make a move" is both correct and also wrong at the same time. They made moves because their drafting has allowed them the luxury to now do so and because they had tons of draft picks from an old regime to hit in the draft and trade picks to make those moves.

 

We will get there. But it is not right now. I am excited to keep building and do things like this in the future once we are at that point.

 

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39 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You do realize we had the best division in football last season record wise right? Our division was 35-25 = the best in the NFL and that was even with the Jags having a down year. I am not buying the weak schedule excuse anymore to why we made the playoffs. In the past I could buy it but our division was good last season. Also outside of the division we played 3 playoff teams = New England, Dallas, and Philly. 

 

 Actually 35-29,
 And we did play against a very weak schedule of offenses.
 That was covered, including how many finished in the twenties that we played during our win streak. NE as i recall was the only top ten offense we played all season. And you don't have to buy it. It just is.

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10 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Look at the Browns roster, not just the offensive fire power, but now with Oliver Vernon to go with Myles Garrett.  I would say John Dorsey the GM is all in & doesn't want to waste any time with Baker Mayfield. What a concept?!  Trying to win when you have a chance in the Not for long NFL!

I do like the direction the Browns are headed in so no debate there.

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Just now, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Actually 35-29,
 And we did play against a very weak schedule of offenses.
 That was covered, including how many finished in the twenties that we played during our win streak. NE as i recall was the only top ten offense we played all season. And you don't have to buy it. It just is.

Yeah Jacksonville sucked and still beat us.  Tenn is even a worse team imo.  I don't know why anyone thinks they are good.

 

Houston is good but never lives up to anything.

 

I would say the AFC west with the Chargers and Chiefs, the NFC south with Atlanta, New Orleans, and Carolina, and the NFC west with Seattle, the Rams and even San Fran were better.

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10 minutes ago, TomDiggs said:

I will say this, everyone in the media, here, etc wants to commend Dorsey on his FA acquisitions and aggressive nature. But let's also be realistic here, it is partly due to the prior regime's huuuuge emphasis on picks and the draft....very similar to Ballard there.

 

Cleveland started (finally) building the right way and they are in the position they are in because of their abundance of draft picks and because of their recent draft selections.

 

QB- B.Mayfield (drafted)

RB- N.Chubb (drafted)
WR3- A.Callaway (drafted)

TE- D,Njoku (drafted)

OG- J.Bitonio (drafted)

OG- A.Corbett (drafted)

 

They signed 3 OL (Tretter, Robinson, Hubbard) and now traded for two WRs (Landry, OBJ)

 

6 of their 11 offensive starters are home grown and 5 of them are on their rookie contracts.

 

DE- M. Garrett (drafted)

DE- E.Ogbah (drafted)

DT- L.Ogunjobi (drafted)

LB- J.Schobert (drafted)

LB- C.Kirksey (drafted)

LB- G.Avery (drafted)

CB- D.Ward (drafted)

 

They signed a DT (Richardson), CB (Carrie), S (Randall) and then will likely sign another S (maybe E.Thomas) and you can argue O.Vernon may or may not start but is a big piece (trade).

 

6-7 of their potential defensive starters are home grown and 5 are on their rookie contracts.

 

So when they make big spending moves in trades or free agency, it is because literally 1/2 of their starters are rookies they drafted that are still on their cheap rookie deals.

 

Their outside FA investments have been heavy on OL/DL (3 OL and 2 DL) and now two big moves in back to back years at WR.

 

Dorsey and Ballard are building the same way. Cleveland is just further along in being able to build that way. And Dorsey was gifted a treasure trove of picks. Seriously.

 

If Ballard had the War Chest of picks Dorsey had to work with then I could see him moving some. But he did not. So he is building the team up like this.

 

The Colts right now have 7 offensive starters that are home grown and 4 are on their rookie deals.

 

Defensively we have only 4 defensive starters that are home grown and all on their rookie deals.

 

In another 1-2 years that is when we will be able to do what Dorsey just did.

 

Right now you build smartly and you stack your team with starters in the draft on cheap rookie deals. Then you absolutely hit FA hard and when you do you go after OL/DL if you have holes and you explore the trade market (or FA if any great guys actually hit it) for some skill position guys.

 

At the end of the day, saying "Oh but Cleveland did this, they are not afraid to spend or make a move" is both correct and also wrong at the same time. They made moves because their drafting has allowed them the luxury to now do so and because they had tons of draft picks from an old regime to hit in the draft and trade picks to make those moves.

 

We will get there. But it is not right now. I am excited to keep building and do things like this in the future once we are at that point.

 

Well thought out post but you do realize that Lucks years have been wasted due to a bad coach and then injuries, and he will be 32-33 btw the time your plan takes place.  Not to mention the rookies that are now on rookie contracts will be due new contracts in 2 years.   So our cap space will not be much at all.

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4 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Actually 35-29,
 And we did play against a very weak schedule of offenses.
 That was covered, including how many finished in the twenties that we played during our win streak. NE as i recall was the only top ten offense we played all season. And you don't have to buy it. It just is.

Ok 35-29, still the best division in football. In the past people used to say we only had a good record or made the playoffs because our division sucked. It didn't suck this past season is all I am saying. 

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Ok 35-29, still the best division in football. In the past people used to say we only had a good record or made the playoffs because our division sucked. It didn't suck this past season is all I am saying. 

We are not the best division in football bro.  In fact I think it is one of the weaker ones.  I realize the record last year but I can name you 6-9 teams better than anyone in the Afc south.

 

I really like Jacksonville this year though.  With Foles at least they will have a chance and I bet the team gets a big pick me up just from knowing that thought alone.

 

Tenn sucks.  Houston will be good.

 

We will face a much tougher schedule and if we stay where we are talent wise, I think 8-8 or 7-9 is a real possibility.  

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1 minute ago, SanDiegoColt8 said:

I was one of the few that wanted Bell. Not as high on Mack as some of you are.  Oh well we have Funcheese lol smh. TY about to blow out his back again from carrying the offense.

After missing out on AB and OBJ I would love Bell at this point.  At least with him you can spread him out wide and use him as a de facto # 2 Wr.  

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The AFC East was 28-36 by comparison - Tom's division, the AFC West even with the Chiefs and Chargers were 34-30 by comparison. The only team in our division with a losing record was the Jags and they still had a great defense and beat us once.

I understand but understand that some of those teams have worse records division wise because they play tougher teams in their division.  For example both the Chiefs and Chargers are better than anyone in the Colts division.  

 

I forgot to even mention the NFC North.  I think you could argue that GB, Minny, and the Bears are better than anyone in the Afc South.  And Detroit isn't bad either.

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Ok 35-29, still the best division in football. In the past people used to say we only had a good record or made the playoffs because our division sucked. It didn't suck this past season is all I am saying. 

 

 And we will see how the division does going up against the NFC West, and with tougher schedules. 
And we did go 16-2 in the division Andrews 1st 3 season's for a reason.

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2 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Well thought out post but you do realize that Lucks years have been wasted due to a bad coach and then injuries, and he will be 32-33 btw the time your plan takes place.  Not to mention the rookies that are now on rookie contracts will be due new contracts in 2 years.   So our cap space will not be much at all.

100%

 

It is why you strike while the iron is hot on your QB's rookie deal.

 

We can't do that any longer. So we either wait till Luck is gone and do this (which would be silly) or we make do with what we have salary-wise there and we foresake at one other spot. Cleveland has a ton of money invested on their OL even after trading Zeitler (so we should be in a similar boat when we either extend or replace Kelly and Castonzo). Basically offensively it means we likely have to foresake one of the super expensive WRs (i.e. OBJ). Hilton and Landry make similar money, so we have to take a downgrade somewhere and most likely that comes w us spending less on defensive talent or spending less on skill positions to make up for the bigger QB salary Luck carries compared to a rookie like Mayfield.

 

In 1 year our OL, DL (especially if we invest draft capital there) and our LBs, RBs and QB are all set. Basically we would be lacking in pass catching options and in secondary talent.

 

If we focus on those in the draft, then we may be lacking in DL talent if we don't address that.

 

But the good news is that the foundation is there already for us to take off as early as this year w another good draft or next year. And by "take off" I mean compete for a Championship. We are already solidly in the running to make the playoffs if we stay healthy and keep adding depth.

 

I am not saying Ballard is perfect. But his plan has merit and all is not lost. We did not go for some of the elite caliber guys available that have some warts (Bell, AB, OBJ)....but if we did, Bell and AB could be guys on their downward slide when we are really making our run.

 

And personally, if you told me the Colts had to trade our 1st, 3rd and Hooker for OBJ and then possibly give him another bump in salary, I would have likely passed. My answer might be different next off-season. But I see where right here and right now it didn't make great sense. And that is before even addressing the locker room culture which clearly our management cares about even if some of our fans are willing to forsake it.

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2 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 And we will see how the division does going up against the NFC West, and with tougher schedules. 
And we did go 16-2 in the division Andrews 1st 3 season's for a reason.

I have looked at our schedule, it looks tough on paper but I still see 10 wins out of it and our division will be good again because I believe the Jags will be better.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When I say the AFC South was the best division in football, I mean record wise it was. Do I believe any team in the South is better than KC or the Pats, no I don't. I am just going by wins and losses. 

 

Yeah, the AFC East and AFC North is looking kinda thin right now.

 

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21 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

Cap space is great..... but what if it's the bonus money that the team has to cough up that is leading us to be ultra conservative?  

 

I know CB wants to be conservative by nature, but Irsay's ONLY income is from being the owner of the Colts....  most Owners have a LOT more liquid assets than Irsay.  

 

It's not JUST cap space that is needed.... it's a whole lot of  cold hard cash that has to be paid with these huge bonuses....  

 

I am glad you brought you this up. If the Colts barely spend this offseason...the questions need to start to shift to Irsay somewhat. 

 

I might be the only one...but I am disappointed that the goal now seems to be just getting to the minimum threshold for cap space. It's a resource like any other. Doesn't mean they need to waste cap space just to spend it all...but with a franchise QB in his prime...they should be spending more.

 

Over the course of 4 years, that is $80M+ not being allocated to the team if they just meet the threshold. And it's actually more than that...because the threshold applies to cash spend...not cap hits. An entire signing bonus will count toward cash spend for the year it was signed. So if you give out a $20M signing bonus next offseason...that's $20M spent...even if it was a five year deal. So expect to see a lot of that this year and next I think.

 

But to your point, the Colts don't really give out signing bonuses (I think Glow is the only one that has gotten one and it was $4.2M)...which is due all upfront. And they aren't giving out a lot gtd money past the first year (when a contract is signed and has gtd money past the first year...the rest of that future gtd money has to be put in escrow immediately). 

 

So the Colts aren't giving out signing bonuses and don't seem to signing long-term deals that have gtd money past the first year. It's smart...but it's also interesting to think about in term of Irsay's liquidity. 

 

 

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Browns may actually win that division. Sounds crazy but they look good on paper.


Definitely. As weird as it is to say it seems like the Browns are the favorite to win their division (at least on paper, like you said). Steelers lost Bell and AB, Ravens lost Mosley/Weddle/Suggs, and the Bengals, well...didn't do much.

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2 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:


Definitely. As weird as it is to say it seems like the Browns are the favorite to win their division (at least on paper, like you said). Steelers lost Bell and AB, Ravens lost Mosley/Weddle/Suggs, and the Bengals, well...didn't do much.

Browns for sure will be favored to win their division after Pitts lost AB and Bell.

 

And it will be fun drafting all of the Browns O players for fantasy.  What a lineup.  I really have to give kudos to the GM for stacking it so quickly.  Amazing stuff.

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Bell is gone.

 

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter 

Le’Veon Bell: 4 years, $52.5 million with the Jets, per source.

 

So you are telling me we couldn't give $14 M a year to the best RB in football before 2018, but we could give up to $13 M to a guy ranked one of the worst in all Wr categories, and who's team didn't even start him the last game because he was so bad.

 

Smart Ballard....smart.

 


 

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34 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Actually 35-29,
 And we did play against a very weak schedule of offenses.
 That was covered, including how many finished in the twenties that we played during our win streak. NE as i recall was the only top ten offense we played all season. And you don't have to buy it. It just is.

 

Yep. That is exactly what happened. If you look at PFR team offense EXP, they played the #4, #14, #15, #16, #18, #19, #24, #25-#31. Considering TEN and JAC were in the bottom third...that's more than half of their games against well below average offenses. I am sure DVOA would paint a similar picture.

 

And the team passing offense is what really accounts for that. They didn't have to face many good QBs. They actually did face some good run offenses...but handled those withe ease.

 

Like you said...it just is what it is. It's no secret they had the easiest schedule in the AFC last season (2nd easiest overall). Just means next year will have new challenges. 

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55 minutes ago, TomDiggs said:

I will say this, everyone in the media, here, etc wants to commend Dorsey on his FA acquisitions and aggressive nature. But let's also be realistic here, it is partly due to the prior regime's huuuuge emphasis on picks and the draft....very similar to Ballard there.

 

Cleveland started (finally) building the right way and they are in the position they are in because of their abundance of draft picks and because of their recent draft selections.

 

QB- B.Mayfield (drafted)

RB- N.Chubb (drafted)
WR3- A.Callaway (drafted)

TE- D,Njoku (drafted)

OG- J.Bitonio (drafted)

OG- A.Corbett (drafted)

 

They signed 3 OL (Tretter, Robinson, Hubbard) and now traded for two WRs (Landry, OBJ)

 

6 of their 11 offensive starters are home grown and 5 of them are on their rookie contracts.

 

DE- M. Garrett (drafted)

DE- E.Ogbah (drafted)

DT- L.Ogunjobi (drafted)

LB- J.Schobert (drafted)

LB- C.Kirksey (drafted)

LB- G.Avery (drafted)

CB- D.Ward (drafted)

 

They signed a DT (Richardson), CB (Carrie), S (Randall) and then will likely sign another S (maybe E.Thomas) and you can argue O.Vernon may or may not start but is a big piece (trade).

 

6-7 of their potential defensive starters are home grown and 5 are on their rookie contracts.

 

So when they make big spending moves in trades or free agency, it is because literally 1/2 of their starters are rookies they drafted that are still on their cheap rookie deals.

 

Their outside FA investments have been heavy on OL/DL (3 OL and 2 DL) and now two big moves in back to back years at WR.

 

Dorsey and Ballard are building the same way. Cleveland is just further along in being able to build that way. And Dorsey was gifted a treasure trove of picks. Seriously.

 

If Ballard had the War Chest of picks Dorsey had to work with then I could see him moving some. But he did not. So he is building the team up like this.

 

The Colts right now have 7 offensive starters that are home grown and 4 are on their rookie deals.

 

Defensively we have only 4 defensive starters that are home grown and all on their rookie deals.

 

In another 1-2 years that is when we will be able to do what Dorsey just did.

 

Right now you build smartly and you stack your team with starters in the draft on cheap rookie deals. Then you absolutely hit FA hard and when you do you go after OL/DL if you have holes and you explore the trade market (or FA if any great guys actually hit it) for some skill position guys.

 

At the end of the day, saying "Oh but Cleveland did this, they are not afraid to spend or make a move" is both correct and also wrong at the same time. They made moves because their drafting has allowed them the luxury to now do so and because they had tons of draft picks from an old regime to hit in the draft and trade picks to make those moves.

 

We will get there. But it is not right now. I am excited to keep building and do things like this in the future once we are at that point.

 

 

Why is it not right now? It would take years to stack draft picks like CLE did because of those trades. And by the time the Colts get to that point...those current rookie deals will be nearing their 2nd contracts.

 

I don't think CLE is doing this because they have the luxury to do so...I think they are doing it because they finally found a franchise QB and they want to win now and maximize his rookie deal. 

 

The Colts have that now again as well. So I think there is definitely a balance between doing little and being super aggressive that they can find. 

 

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22 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Bell is gone.

 

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter 

Le’Veon Bell: 4 years, $52.5 million with the Jets, per source.

 

So you are telling me we couldn't give $14 M a year to the best RB in football before 2018, but we could give up to $13 M to a guy ranked one of the worst in all Wr categories, and who's team didn't even start him the last game because he was so bad.

 

Smart Ballard....smart.

 


 

 

To add to that...in Bell's last season (2017)...his Approximate Value according to PFR was 15. Funchess, in that same year (his supposed breakout season) was 8. 

 

But no way Ballard is touching $35M in gtd salary. I think Sheard is the only player that even had gtd money past the first season. 

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