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CB Situation


dw49

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OK.. I can really appreciate the fact that Ballard walked away from all the players signed yesterday and this morning. The ones we coveted received insane contracts. I wanted a top flight upgrade or two but I can't bash him at this point. In fact I agree with him.

 

But.... if Desir or a CB of at least equal talent is not signed , this IMO would be major mismanagement . At the very least , he should have anticipated large contracts and not let Deasir hit the market. When you are a playoff team and have the most cap room in the NFL , you shouldn't let the team take a hit at CB. I'm expecting that Ballard will address this adequately as there's a long way to go in this free agency period.

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I personally think Desir is overrated on the basis of the Texans games. I'm fine with letting him walk, and think we can do better.

 

And I don't think any outside corners have been taken off the market yet, just a couple nickel defenders. So Desir's market isn't set yet, and there are other players who can take his spot if the front office is interested.

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Quincy Wilson will be the starting Corner opposite Kenny Moore, he progressed significantly after Mike Mitchell joined the squad and taught him the nuances of being a professional player. I dont see Ballard over spending to bring in help for theses two though a contract friendly deal for a younger vet would be nice.

 

I think Jalen Collins will also see quality time, if he stays out of trouble (And so far so good in Indy). He has all the tools and was very highly regarded coming into the league.

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10 minutes ago, Superman said:

I personally think Desir is overrated on the basis of the Texans games. I'm fine with letting him walk, and think we can do better.

 

And I don't think any outside corners have been taken off the market yet, just a couple nickel defenders. So Desir's market isn't set yet, and there are other players who can take his spot if the front office is interested.

 

I don't get what you mean by "if interested ." What I said was they need to sign Desir or a FA of equal or better talent. Are you saying we have in house options or should depend on the draft to replace Desir ? 

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2 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

I don't get what you mean by "if interested ." What I said was they need to sign Desir or a FA of equal or better talent. Are you saying we have in house options or should depend on the draft to replace Desir ? 

 

I'm saying I don't know what they intend to do at corner. I think we should go after Steven Nelson, but I don't know what the staff thinks.

 

I was more responding to your statement that they shouldn't have let Desir hit the market. I'm fine with letting Desir go.

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14 minutes ago, Superman said:

I personally think Desir is overrated on the basis of the Texans games. I'm fine with letting him walk, and think we can do better.

 

 

Better with who?  no one on our current roster and we aren't haven't signed anyone with a better history, haven't signed anyone and all the reports say Desir is getting some very quality offers; so likely he is gone.  Guess Wilson will be our big name CB!  :wall:

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3 minutes ago, Old Colt said:

Better with who?  no one on our current roster and we aren't haven't signed anyone with a better history, haven't signed anyone and all the reports say Desir is getting some very quality offers; so likely he is gone.  Guess Wilson will be our big name CB!  :wall:

 

Desir is a replacement level player, so it's not hard to replace him. 

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25 minutes ago, Superman said:

I personally think Desir is overrated on the basis of the Texans games. I'm fine with letting him walk, and think we can do better.

 

And I don't think any outside corners have been taken off the market yet, just a couple nickel defenders. So Desir's market isn't set yet, and there are other players who can take his spot if the front office is interested.

 

Not sure I can disagree with this anymore than I currently do

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6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm saying I don't know what they intend to do at corner. I think we should go after Steven Nelson, but I don't know what the staff thinks.

 

I was more responding to your statement that they shouldn't have let Desir hit the market. I'm fine with letting Desir go.

 

 

I'm fine with Nelson also and I don't know what "they intend to do" either. My feeling is it would be unacceptable to be weaker at CB when the period is over. Desir was very solid vs the run and had a tremendous rating that covered what the Pass rating was vs his coverage. He was super solid IMO.

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2 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Not sure I can disagree with this anymore than I currently do

 

I'm sure I agree with what you feel. He might have had a few bad games as most CB's do. But to just disregard shutting down Hopkins twice as a fluke is not solid.

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42 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I agree. He let him hit the market and now won’t be able to bring him back because of the contract he will get. This should never  have happened.

Meh. Desir is replaceable. Nice guy, awesome story, but replaceable. 

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11 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

I'm sure I agree with what you feel. He might have had a few bad games as most CB's do. But to just disregard shutting down Hopkins twice as a fluke is not solid.

 

What if I told you he didn't shut down Hopkins?

 

I've watched the All 22 of those games. His performance has been overstated. He wasn't even on Hopkins all the time, and some of the best coverage of Hopkins came from Kenny Moore.

 

He played well against Hopkins, but it wasn't Vontae Davis vs Demaryius Thomas. 

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32 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Quincy Wilson will be the starting Corner opposite Kenny Moore, he progressed significantly after Mike Mitchell joined the squad and taught him the nuances of being a professional player. I dont see Ballard over spending to bring in help for theses two though a contract friendly deal for a younger vet would be nice.

 

I think Jalen Collins will also see quality time, if he stays out of trouble (And so far so good in Indy). He has all the tools and was very highly regarded coming into the league.

 

I think that's what they're counting on, but if that's all they do it's pretty risky.  Neither Wilson nor Collins have proven anything yet.  Personally, I hope we keep Mitchell just for his leadership.

 

I like Desir.  He's not great but he has had some really good games. We need the depth, starters will be injured.

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

What if I told you he didn't shut down Hopkins?

 

I've watched the All 22 of those games. His performance has been overstated. He wasn't even on Hopkins all the time, and some of the best coverage of Hopkins came from Kenny Moore.

 

He played well against Hopkins, but it wasn't Vontae Davis vs Demaryius Thomas. 

 

Leonard was shutting down Hopkins when he was on the inside as much if not more... 

I agree. Desir is a product of what is going to be a good defensive system. The guys we have on roster will be every bit of good with time, they are just so young and have little to no experience. This was Desir's 5th season in this league. Let's see what Wilson, Hairston, and who we draft this year can do with time before jumping to conclusions. That's Ballard's process. He is going to raise his own team and fill in the blanks. Desir was one of those fill in the blanks. 

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Wilson, a second-round pick in 2017, allowed just a 65.2 passer rating and 0.73 yards per coverage snap in the Colts’ last 10 games of the season, ranking seventh in both respects among the 66 corner backs with 200-plus coverage snaps in said span. Also, when targeted 10 or more yards down the field, he allowed just a 9.3 passer rating and forced an incompletion on 27.3% of such targets, both marks ranking inside the top 10.

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I think we'll be okay at CB next year (not great).

 

Desir was a journeyman CB. When he landed with the Colts, he fought to get to the starting lineup and earned his chance to start. He got better and better and played well last year.

 

If Ballard preaches keeping home grown talent, well, Desir grew in his profession as a Colt over the last few years. To me, if he let's Desir walk, it sends a bad message to the team.

 

Ballard will not reward you financially if you work hard enough to earn a sizable contract. We'll see in a few years what he decides to do with his draft picks.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

I personally think Desir is overrated on the basis of the Texans games. I'm fine with letting him walk, and think we can do better.

 

And I don't think any outside corners have been taken off the market yet, just a couple nickel defenders. So Desir's market isn't set yet, and there are other players who can take his spot if the front office is interested.

 

Agreed.

 

Desir is a fine player, but ultimately, replaceable. Let him get paid elsewhere. 

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1 hour ago, dw49 said:

OK.. I can really appreciate the fact that Ballard walked away from all the players signed yesterday and this morning. The ones we coveted received insane contracts. I wanted a top flight upgrade or two but I can't bash him at this point. In fact I agree with him.

 

But.... if Desir or a CB of at least equal talent is not signed , this IMO would be major mismanagement . At the very least , he should have anticipated large contracts and not let Deasir hit the market. When you are a playoff team and have the most cap room in the NFL , you shouldn't let the team take a hit at CB. I'm expecting that Ballard will address this adequately as there's a long way to go in this free agency period.

Imo Desir is really overhyped on this forum. He’s an OK Corner, he’s not Elite he’s just OK. Collins IMO will fill in just fine. People forget that in a cover 2 defense you can get by without Elite CB. Their play is masked by our safeties. 

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57 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Wilson, a second-round pick in 2017, allowed just a 65.2 passer rating and 0.73 yards per coverage snap in the Colts’ last 10 games of the season, ranking seventh in both respects among the 66 corner backs with 200-plus coverage snaps in said span. Also, when targeted 10 or more yards down the field, he allowed just a 9.3 passer rating and forced an incompletion on 27.3% of such targets, both marks ranking inside the top 10.

 

How did Desir stack up vs other NFL CB's ? I can't seem to find the info.

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39 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

Imo Desir is really overhyped on this forum. He’s an OK Corner, he’s not Elite he’s just OK. Collins IMO will fill in just fine. People forget that in a cover 2 defense you can get by without Elite CB. Their play is masked by our safeties. 

 

 

Collins .. really ? Strange none of the 31 teams claimed him off our PS ?

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1 hour ago, Devildog said:

Desir was a good player.  I said good because he's not elite.  I hope Ballard can find that elite player.  Perhaps Desir was looking to test the market and get paid.   I'm ok with him walking away. 

 

All well and good. But let's see what this roster looks like when the period is done. Should look much better ... no ?  I'm willing to be patient and I understand the Colts don't really care what I think. I just hope we are able to maximize the most cap room in the NFL for 2018. Let's hope it plays out  well.

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2 hours ago, Superman said:

I personally think Desir is overrated on the basis of the Texans games. I'm fine with letting him walk, and think we can do better.

 

And I don't think any outside corners have been taken off the market yet, just a couple nickel defenders. So Desir's market isn't set yet, and there are other players who can take his spot if the front office is interested.

He did pretty good against Amari Cooper too. 

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

What if I told you he didn't shut down Hopkins?

 

I've watched the All 22 of those games. His performance has been overstated. He wasn't even on Hopkins all the time, and some of the best coverage of Hopkins came from Kenny Moore.

 

He played well against Hopkins, but it wasn't Vontae Davis vs Demaryius Thomas. 

 

 

I watched all the Colt games also and I thought he played very well vs the pass and run. Word is he's getting a lot of interest so maybe a lot of GM's see it that way also. Seems like much of the "buzz" has really been pretty good so I tend to believe it. My point is maybe Ballard miscalculated the market this year and should have signed Desir and maybe Geathers too. We shall see who we get with the money we could have spent on Desir. Too bad we don't know what he would have signed for , so it's a tough argument for me to win I guess. 

 

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14 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

I watched all the Colt games also and I thought he played very well vs the pass and run. Word is he's getting a lot of interest so maybe a lot of GM's see it that way also. Seems like much of the "buzz" has really been pretty good so I tend to believe it. My point is maybe Ballard miscalculated the market this year and should have signed Desir and maybe Geathers too. We shall see who we get with the money we could have spent on Desir. Too bad we don't know what he would have signed for , so it's a tough argument for me to win I guess. 

 

 

Yeah, I'm not trying to dog on Desir. I'd like to keep him, I just don't see him as a critical piece for the team, so if letting him test the market means he leaves, I'm gonna be okay with that.

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Just now, Superman said:

 

Yeah, I'm not trying to dog on Desir. I'd like to keep him, I just don't see him as a critical piece for the team, so if letting him test the market means he leaves, I'm gonna be okay with that.

I wouldn't be shocked if we spend some real capital on a CB in the draft(top 3 rounds pick I mean). 

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10 minutes ago, stitches said:

Do you have a favorite CB in the first several rounds? How do you feel about Murphy vs Baker vs Greedy? 

 

I’m becoming a fan of Justin Layne of Michigan St.  Pretty quick for a big corner.  If you’re looking for a slot guy, you could do a lot worse than Jimmy Moreland of JMU.  29.5” arms, though, so you don’t want him on the outside...

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2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

What if I told you he didn't shut down Hopkins?

 

I've watched the All 22 of those games. His performance has been overstated. He wasn't even on Hopkins all the time, and some of the best coverage of Hopkins came from Kenny Moore.

 

He played well against Hopkins, but it wasn't Vontae Davis vs Demaryius Thomas. 

 

Not to mention that Hopkins was hampered by injuries in both games that Desir supposedly shut him down.

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1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

 

Collins .. really ? Strange none of the 31 teams claimed him off our PS ?

 

I don’t foresee anyone is going to jump all over someone who hasn’t played in over a year. CB has raved over his capabilities and If you’ve watched his film prior to his suspension then you know the guy is good and can play. 

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23 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

 

I don’t foresee anyone is going to jump all over someone who hasn’t played in over a year. CB has raved over his capabilities and If you’ve watched his film prior to his suspension then you know the guy is good and can play. 

 

Not a question of "foresee" , it's a question of why they didn't.

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