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Dacoltsboi

Hypothetical Mega Trade

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7 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

1) you obviously have zero clue about KC's line. See above, and check out FO advanced stats.

 

2). The game Luck had under 250 yards. 

Buffalo - #1 ranked passing D

Jax - #2 ranked passing D

Dallas - #7 in total D

the other was in the first few games of the year with Luck coming off an injury year. I'll give him little break. 

And that is something you cannot do when comparing objectively.  This is why it is impossible to debate with people who cannot objectively compare things. No I do have a clue...Colts had the better line yes? I still don't get your point. KC had the worse line of the two and Mahomes had to scramble more.

 

Mahomes led the league in TDs when pressured, and 4th for YPA when pressured. Which your FO site does not take into account the amount of hits or pressures Mahomes had. I would like to find a site that shows how many times a QB was hit or pressured for drop backs (for the season) and compare exactly what we're talking about here.

 

What I have found is that from week 9 to week 14 the Colts allowed 19 hits...in that same time span, KC allowed 39 hits, and you want to sit there and tell me that KC had the superior O-line? Hits will correlate with pressures, therefore Mahomes was unquestionably pressured more than Luck. Hence why I say his mobility is better than Lucks.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

And that is something you cannot do when comparing objectively.  This is why it is impossible to debate with people who cannot objectively compare things. No I do have a clue...Colts had the better line yes? I still don't get your point. KC had the worse line of the two and Mahomes had to scramble more.

 

Mahomes led the league in TDs when pressured, and 4th for YPA when pressured. Which your FO site does not take into account the amount of hits or pressures Mahomes had. I would like to find a site that shows how many times a QB was hit or pressured for drop backs (for the season) and compare exactly what we're talking about here.

 

What I have found is that from week 9 to week 14 the Colts allowed 19 hits...in that same time span, KC allowed 39 hits, and you want to sit there and tell me that KC had the superior O-line? Hits will correlate with pressures, therefore Mahomes was unquestionably pressured more than Luck. Hence why I say his mobility is better than Lucks.

 

 

Assuming an equal line, a scrambling QB that holds onto the ball longer will be hit much more than QB that does not, yes or no? More time with the ball, and more time with the ball outside the pocket will translate into more hits. 

 

Let's subtract the QB from the conversation for a minute. The stat RBYards (yards per carry), PowerSuccess (success rate on 3rd or 4th down, when 2 yards or less is needed), and StuffRate (% of time a play was stuffed at or behind the line). KC ranked higher in 2 or 3. KC was also much better ranked (11th vs 22nd) in OpenYards (carry's of more than 10 yards), while IND was slightly better in 5-10 yard carries. 

 

In short, both lines are very good. KC a bit better vs the run. Both are rated in the top 5 in pass blocking. Given Mahomes creates more risk of sack by his nature/style, the fact that KC is top 5 means they are pretty damn good.

 

And on injuries.... Injuries are facts. Objective thinking takes facts into account. 

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

There's no problem with being a fan of Andrew Luck, I am as well and he's a top 5 QB. The problem is you'd take 6-8 more years of Luck over 15 of Mahomes, and that's just a terrible decision for the Colts franchise in general because you like Luck better.

You put a franchise in a bad situation by taking your key players and just tossing them to the side. As good as Mahomes is how do you even know if he would fit in?

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

In Mahomes' two games Vs NE, he scored 40 in one game, and took them to OT in the other. Luck hasn't come close. Did I mention Mahomes is 23 and it was his rookie year of playing? I like Luck, but he's 29 (30 when the season starts), he needs to step up Vs elite teams in the playoffs.

No the team in general needs to step up! 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Narcosys said:

A logical, non-emotional, decision would be to choose mahomes over luck if the option was available.

 

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If you agree that Luck and Mahomes are equals, then a 6 year age difference is the only thing that matters.

 

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The problem with that is you're a fan of the player, people like me are a fan of winning multiple SB's, no matter the QB.

 

Ok, so since we're talking about age, and it doesn't matter who the QB is...

 

Then the logical option is to go with Luck until the end of his career, because by that time the Colts will have an opportunity to find another talented young franchise QB who is 6 years younger than Mahomes.

 

The combined window of Luck and his replacement will be larger than the window for Mahomes.  On the flip side, the combined window for Mahomes and his replacement will be larger than the combined window of Luck and his replacement, but then there's the replacement of Lucks' replacement...  This is how actual NFL GMs run their actual teams.  That's why you don't see franchise QBs traded very often, even for other franchise QBs or boatloads of picks.

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17 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Assuming an equal line, a scrambling QB that holds onto the ball longer will be hit much more than QB that does not, yes or no? More time with the ball, and more time with the ball outside the pocket will translate into more hits. 

 

Let's subtract the QB from the conversation for a minute. The stat RBYards (yards per carry), PowerSuccess (success rate on 3rd or 4th down, when 2 yards or less is needed), and StuffRate (% of time a play was stuffed at or behind the line). KC ranked higher in 2 or 3. KC was also much better ranked (11th vs 22nd) in OpenYards (carry's of more than 10 yards), while IND was slightly better in 5-10 yard carries. 

 

In short, both lines are very good. KC a bit better vs the run. Both are rated in the top 5 in pass blocking. Given Mahomes creates more risk of sack by his nature/style, the fact that KC is top 5 means they are pretty damn good.

 

And on injuries.... Injuries are facts. Objective thinking takes facts into account. 

But Mahomes isn't a scrambling QB, he only scrambles when forced. He's not like Cam Newton, RG3, or those other running QBs. He had more hits, therefore pressured even more than his hits. Yet he still threw for more yards, more TDs and ran for more yards and more yards per attempt.

 

Why are you comparing run stats for an O-line when we're talking about QB protection. One has nothing to do with the other. If we were comparing RBs then you'd have a point, but we aren't.  That's why you had to subtract the QB from conversation, just so you could continue to argue that KC's line was just as good as the Colts. When it's just not true. Pull up stats for pressures and hits allowed for the lines, pull up scrambles and scramble yards (don't want to take into account QB run plays). Your pass blocking only takes into account sacks, which does not even come close to supporting your statement, when they allowed far more hits and pressures than the Colts. Their 39 hits ranked them 24th while Colts were tied for 2nd. You don't get hits unless you pressure the QB, but a pressure doesn't mean a hit. So it is safe to assume their pressures are even high than their hits.

 

I have brought up the most relevant stat to the discussion, yet you continue to say KC has a similar Oline.

 

Luck was not injured for season was he? He played all 16 games correct? He was practicing all offseason yes? Then you have no point there. You cannot measurably "give him a little break."

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11 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

 

 

Ok, so since we're talking about age, and it doesn't matter who the QB is...

 

Then the logical option is to go with Luck until the end of his career, because by that time the Colts will have an opportunity to find another talented young franchise QB who is 6 years younger than Mahomes.

 

The combined window of Luck and his replacement will be larger than the window for Mahomes.  On the flip side, the combined window for Mahomes and his replacement will be larger than the combined window of Luck and his replacement, but then there's the replacement of Lucks' replacement...  This is how actual NFL GMs run their actual teams.  That's why you don't see franchise QBs traded very often, even for other franchise QBs or boatloads of picks.

Well of course that is true, but the discussion was focused in on the choice between Luck and Mahomes, not Luck and any unnamed future QB.

 

The uncertainty of finding franchise QBs is why it gives validity to the discussion of Luck or Mahomes for the future of the Colts franchise. If we open the discussion to future QBs, then it essentially is moot.

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Just now, Narcosys said:

Well of course that is true, but the discussion was focused in on the choice between Luck and Mahomes, not Luck and any unnamed future QB.

 

The uncertainty of finding franchise QBs is why it gives validity to the discussion of Luck or Mahomes for the future of the Colts franchise. If we open the discussion to future QBs, then it essentially is moot.

 

Then I guess I just don't see the point.

 

In a vacuum, yeah you go with the younger player.

 

But this discussion could go round and round.  Luck for Mayfield.  Brady for Mahomes.  Rodgers for Jackson.  What if we had Mahomes, but Luck won a SB with the Chiefs?  Would you feel better that we have Mahomes because he's younger and we'd have more chances at a SB?

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2 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Then I guess I just don't see the point.

 

In a vacuum, yeah you go with the younger player.

 

But this discussion could go round and round.  Luck for Mayfield.  Brady for Mahomes.  Rodgers for Jackson.  What if we had Mahomes, but Luck won a SB with the Chiefs?  Would you feel better that we have Mahomes because he's younger and we'd have more chances at a SB?

It was essentially in a vacuum, but with comparable QBs.  Luck over Mayfield, Mahomes over Brady, Rodgers over Jackson. I believe that I would, considering I feel quite sure about the future of our team.

 

But you have no way of knowing if I am saying that facetiously or genuinely or not. But with Lucks age, and injury history, I would feel more comfortable with Mahomes than Luck, even if he had won a SB.

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27 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

But Mahomes isn't a scrambling QB, he only scrambles when forced. He's not like Cam Newton, RG3, or those other running QBs. He had more hits, therefore pressured even more than his hits. Yet he still threw for more yards, more TDs and ran for more yards and more yards per attempt.

 

Why are you comparing run stats for an O-line when we're talking about QB protection. One has nothing to do with the other. If we were comparing RBs then you'd have a point, but we aren't.  That's why you had to subtract the QB from conversation, just so you could continue to argue that KC's line was just as good as the Colts. When it's just not true. Pull up stats for pressures and hits allowed for the lines, pull up scrambles and scramble yards (don't want to take into account QB run plays). Your pass blocking only takes into account sacks, which does not even come close to supporting your statement, when they allowed far more hits and pressures than the Colts. Their 39 hits ranked them 24th while Colts were tied for 2nd. You don't get hits unless you pressure the QB, but a pressure doesn't mean a hit. So it is safe to assume their pressures are even high than their hits.

 

I have brought up the most relevant stat to the discussion, yet you continue to say KC has a similar Oline.

 

Luck was not injured for season was he? He played all 16 games correct? He was practicing all offseason yes? Then you have no point there. You cannot measurably "give him a little break."

Keep spinning....

 

Mahomes is not a run first QB (never said he was). He is a very frequent scrambler to avoid the sack and buy time. 

 

He is ranked 8th in TT (Time to Throw - basically how long he holds onto the ball), which is a prime indicator for "scrambling" QBs.

 

By the way, Luck is ranked 31st in TT (which means he is one of the best at getting the ball out fast). And this is what started this conversation (I said Luck did not hold onto the ball too long)

 

The higher the TT, the higher the sacks typically. So, Mahomes holds onto the ball a lot longer than most, spend a lot of time outside the pocket which increases his risk of sacks, but KC's OL is bad. LOL. 

 

And I communicated run stats to show you that the two OLs rated similar without any of the QB nonsense you're spinning. Looking at simple pass blocking rating (with the QB), as I said, both were top 5, but you don't want to acknowledge that either. So per the stats, in both pass blocking, and run blocking, the OLs are similar.

 

Anyway..... By every meaningful stat, the OLs are very similar. GMs and Coaches, as well as all the talking heads use these same stats. So everyone in the business uses them. If you want to ignore clear data, that's on you dude. But you look pretty silly.

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3 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

But with Lucks age, and injury history, I would feel more comfortable with Mahomes than Luck, even if he had won a SB.

 

Since we're just dealing in hypotheticals anyway, I pose this choice to you:

 

Luck is going to win a SB this year, whether it's with the Colts or the Chiefs.  You have a one-time offer to trade Luck for Mahomes straight-up before the season starts.

 

Would you trade Luck for Mahomes, knowing you are missing out on the SB this year and giving it to the Chiefs, in exchange for the larger window at a CHANCE to win one or more with Mahomes in the next decade?

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7 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

 

Keep spinning....

 

Mahomes is not a run first QB (never said he was). He is a very frequent scrambler to avoid the sack and buy time. 

 

He is ranked 8th in TT (Time to Throw - basically how long he holds onto the ball), which is a prime indicator for "scrambling" QBs.

 

By the way, Luck is ranked 31st in TT (which means he is one of the best at getting the ball out fast). And this is what started this conversation (I said Luck did not hold onto the ball too long)

 

The higher the TT, the higher the sacks typically. So, Mahomes holds onto the ball a lot longer than most, spend a lot of time outside the pocket which increases his risk of sacks, but KC's OL is bad. LOL. 

 

And I communicated run stats to show you that the two OLs rated similar without any of the QB nonsense you're spinning. Looking at simple pass blocking rating (with the QB), as I said, both were top 5, but you don't want to acknowledge that either. So per the stats, in both pass blocking, and run blocking, the OLs are similar.

 

Anyway..... By every meaningful stat, the OLs are very similar. GMs and Coaches, as well as all the talking heads use these same stats. So everyone in the business uses them. If you want to ignore clear data, that's on you dude. But you look pretty silly.

To the bolded....Which means he isn't pressured, like I said. and that mahomes is pressured more, like I said.

 

Why is Mahomes out of the pocket?  Because he is pressured out! But yet KC has a great Oline?  If Mahomes is so bad on time to throw and how long he holds on to the ball, and it is related to pressure, the pressure is allowed by the Oline. You are literally supporting my argument and then not even understanding what you are saying.

 

Again, nobody in this discussion cares about the run stats when comparing QBs. This whole discussion is about QBs. You are bringing up things that have nothing to do with the conversation. You are saying top 5, by only looking at one stat (sacks), that doesn't even come close to actually communicating how good the Oline is in protecting the QB and allowing Time to Throw. 

 

Show me pressures and show me hits, or you prove nothing that supports your argument. Your best support for your argument is Sacks and run blocking. Slow clap for you.

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1 hour ago, Narcosys said:

To the bolded....Which means he isn't pressured, like I said. and that mahomes is pressured more, like I said.

 

Why is Mahomes out of the pocket?  Because he is pressured out! But yet KC has a great Oline?  If Mahomes is so bad on time to throw and how long he holds on to the ball, and it is related to pressure, the pressure is allowed by the Oline. You are literally supporting my argument and then not even understanding what you are saying.

 

Again, nobody in this discussion cares about the run stats when comparing QBs. This whole discussion is about QBs. You are bringing up things that have nothing to do with the conversation. You are saying top 5, by only looking at one stat (sacks), that doesn't even come close to actually communicating how good the Oline is in protecting the QB and allowing Time to Throw. 

 

Show me pressures and show me hits, or you prove nothing that supports your argument. Your best support for your argument is Sacks and run blocking. Slow clap for you.

forget about runs stats comparison.

 

when a QB gets the ball out quick, it makes things easier on the OL, and harder on the Ds to get pressures. let's forget that you were dead wrong saying Luck holds onto the ball too long. Luck's quick passing helps our OL look good. 

 

Mahomes is slow to get the ball out, yet his OL is ranked very good (5th) in pass blocking. He's making it hard on his OL by taking longer, yet they still are top 5. that means his OL is working much harder than Indy's OL. And any QB holding the ball that long is going to get pressured and hit more. YET KC IS RANKED 5TH BEST in PASS PRO.

 

PFF top 100 players at end of year 2018 listed Mitchell Schwartz (who was 2018 AP ALL PRO, as the 35 best player in the league. Quentin Nelson only ranked 86th. Eric Fisher, KC's other OT, was a 2018 Pro Bowl pick. So help me understand how both your tackles get awards like AP All Pro and Pro Bowl, and they're bad..... good grief. Indy only had one OL guy on those list (Q). 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Since we're just dealing in hypotheticals anyway, I pose this choice to you:

 

Luck is going to win a SB this year, whether it's with the Colts or the Chiefs.  You have a one-time offer to trade Luck for Mahomes straight-up before the season starts.

 

Would you trade Luck for Mahomes, knowing you are missing out on the SB this year and giving it to the Chiefs, in exchange for the larger window at a CHANCE to win one or more with Mahomes in the next decade?

Mahomes. Won't have one this year, more chances in the future. That's without team being taken into account. Given the trajectory of the team, and the longevity of Mahomes (barring any unforseen career ending injuries), I believe we have a high chance of winning multiples. 

 

I also believe with Luck, and the trajectory of the team, we will win at least one, at most two, superbowls. With Mahomes, it could be three or four. However this is clearly speculation.

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1 hour ago, Irish YJ said:

forget about runs stats comparison.

 

when a QB gets the ball out quick, it makes things easier on the OL, and harder on the Ds to get pressures. let's forget that you were dead wrong saying Luck holds onto the ball too long. Luck's quick passing helps our OL look good. 

 

Mahomes is slow to get the ball out, yet his OL is ranked very good (5th) in pass blocking. He's making it hard on his OL by taking longer, yet they still are top 5. that means his OL is working much harder than Indy's OL. And any QB holding the ball that long is going to get pressured and hit more. YET KC IS RANKED 5TH BEST in PASS PRO.

 

PFF top 100 players at end of year 2018 listed Mitchell Schwartz (who was 2018 AP ALL PRO, as the 35 best player in the league. Quentin Nelson only ranked 86th. Eric Fisher, KC's other OT, was a 2018 Pro Bowl pick. So help me understand how both your tackles get awards like AP All Pro and Pro Bowl, and they're bad..... good grief. Indy only had one OL guy on those list (Q). 

 

 

 

I didn't say he holds on to it too long, that was @Jared Cisneros

 

But anyways, you first claim he holds onto it to long because he scrambles, and blaming the qb for that rather than the O Line that forces him to scramble. Now you say he holds to long which makes it harder on the OLine, and again blaming the qb. Two different arguments with different logical conclusions.

 

And again, your keep claiming top 5 stat but your source ONLY uses sacks. That is not, in any way, feasible to use as the basis of your argument. 

 

Fact is KC was bottom of the barrel for hits and pressures. No matter how much you try to put all the blame on Mahomes, it's just not factually accurate, his time to throw stat is skewed by the fact he is able to scramble and make throws, not that he just holds it while in the pocket. 

 

He was the best QB under pressure, that's a fact too. 

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7 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

I didn't say he holds on to it too long, that was @Jared Cisneros

 

But anyways, you first claim he holds onto it to long because he scrambles, and blaming the qb for that rather than the O Line that forces him to scramble. Now you say he holds to long which makes it harder on the OLine, and again blaming the qb. Two different arguments with different logical conclusions.

 

And again, your keep claiming top 5 stat but your source ONLY uses sacks. That is not, in any way, feasible to use as the basis of your argument. 

 

Fact is KC was bottom of the barrel for hits and pressures. No matter how much you try to put all the blame on Mahomes, it's just not factually accurate, his time to throw stat is skewed by the fact he is able to scramble and make throws, not that he just holds it while in the pocket. 

 

He was the best QB under pressure, that's a fact too. 

You ignore advanced stats, common sense logic, and KC's 2 OTs that are All Pro and Pro Bowl.

 

Mahomes has always been a dancer in the pocket who tries to buy time for the big play.

 

Since anything I write is dismissed, perhaps you will give more credence to what the Pro scouts said about him coming out of college (which is the exact same point I'm making). Here's his NFL Combine report.

 

"Can be inconsistent in his approach. Needs to play inside the offense and show more discipline. Too eager to go big game hunting. Ravenous appetite for the explosive play can also bring unwanted trouble. Willingness to default to playground style appears to limit his ability to get into a consistent rhythm. Needs to improve anticipatory reads and learn to take what the defense gives him. Decision making can go from good to bad in a moment's notice. Operates from a narrow base and allows his upper body and arm to race ahead of his feet. Has a dip and wind-up in his standard release. Explosive delivery and follow-through causes some throws to sail. Needs better touch on intermediate and deep balls. Carries ball a little low in the pocket. Impatient. Will leave pocket prematurely rather than standing in and winning in rhythm. Better as a scrambler than pure runner. Looked a little less mobile in the open field this season.

 

BOTTOM LINE

 Mahomes is a big, confident quarterback who brings a variety of physical tools to the party, but he's developed some bad habits and doesn't have a very repeatable process as a passer. Mahomes' ability to improvise and extend plays can lead to big plays for his offense, but he will have to prove he can operate with better anticipation and be willing to take what the defense gives him in order to win from the pocket. Mahomes will be a work in progress, but he's a high ceiling, low floor prospect."

 

 

I'm sure you will dismiss the above too. I know, I get it. The sky is orange.

 

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13 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

You ignore advanced stats, common sense logic, and KC's 2 OTs that are All Pro and Pro Bowl.

 

Mahomes has always been a dancer in the pocket who tries to buy time for the big play.

 

Since anything I write is dismissed, perhaps you will give more credence to what the Pro scouts said about him coming out of college (which is the exact same point I'm making). Here's his NFL Combine report.

 

"Can be inconsistent in his approach. Needs to play inside the offense and show more discipline. Too eager to go big game hunting. Ravenous appetite for the explosive play can also bring unwanted trouble. Willingness to default to playground style appears to limit his ability to get into a consistent rhythm. Needs to improve anticipatory reads and learn to take what the defense gives him. Decision making can go from good to bad in a moment's notice. Operates from a narrow base and allows his upper body and arm to race ahead of his feet. Has a dip and wind-up in his standard release. Explosive delivery and follow-through causes some throws to sail. Needs better touch on intermediate and deep balls. Carries ball a little low in the pocket. Impatient. Will leave pocket prematurely rather than standing in and winning in rhythm. Better as a scrambler than pure runner. Looked a little less mobile in the open field this season.

 

BOTTOM LINE

 Mahomes is a big, confident quarterback who brings a variety of physical tools to the party, but he's developed some bad habits and doesn't have a very repeatable process as a passer. Mahomes' ability to improvise and extend plays can lead to big plays for his offense, but he will have to prove he can operate with better anticipation and be willing to take what the defense gives him in order to win from the pocket. Mahomes will be a work in progress, but he's a high ceiling, low floor prospect."

 

 

I'm sure you will dismiss the above too. I know, I get it. The sky is orange.

 

So two people is his entire line? The pressures came from the middle. But let's ignore that.

 

And if you say stuff that needs to be dismissed, then yes I will dismiss it. He's also had two years to play since coming out of college. 

 

Nothing those scouts said have anything to do with the discussion about how his oline gave up 39 hits in a 5 week period. That his oline gave up tons of pressures, of which he was the best qb under pressure. 

 

His play this season already proved some of those comments wrong such as leading with his foot, accuracy on intermediate and deep balls, standing in pocket, ball carrying. But let's not give credit to a qb that's had two years to develop. 

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On 3/16/2019 at 3:34 AM, Narcosys said:

So two people is his entire line? The pressures came from the middle. But let's ignore that.

 

And if you say stuff that needs to be dismissed, then yes I will dismiss it. He's also had two years to play since coming out of college. 

 

Nothing those scouts said have anything to do with the discussion about how his oline gave up 39 hits in a 5 week period. That his oline gave up tons of pressures, of which he was the best qb under pressure. 

 

His play this season already proved some of those comments wrong such as leading with his foot, accuracy on intermediate and deep balls, standing in pocket, ball carrying. But let's not give credit to a qb that's had two years to develop. 

that's one more person than our entire line. 

 

you're ignoring the fact that any QB who dances around and holds the ball longer is going to take more hits, and get pressured more. that is logic 101. he did that in college, and he still does it. 

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49 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

that's one more person than our entire line. 

 

you're ignoring the fact that any QB who dances around and holds the ball longer is going to take more hits, and get pressured more. that is logic 101. he did that in college, and he still does it. 

You don't say?! 

 

However many of his pressures were due to his interior line and not him holding it. 

 

His interior line graded average to start the season: https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2018/07/17/pff-chiefs-offensive-line-ranks-in-the-middle-of-the-nfl-for-2018/

 

throughout the middle of the season https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-10

 

And to finish the season https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-17

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

You don't say?! 

 

However many of his pressures were due to his interior line and not him holding it. 

 

His interior line graded average to start the season: https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2018/07/17/pff-chiefs-offensive-line-ranks-in-the-middle-of-the-nfl-for-2018/

 

throughout the middle of the season https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-10

 

And to finish the season https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-17

 

 

the first ranking was preseason (they ranked KC and Indy 16th and 17th). the second (week 9) ranked them top 10 and called out their All Pro tackle for having a bad game. The end ranked them 13th, just outside of the top 1/3. Nether rankings are "bad". And their end of year rankings in OF are damn good.

 

All of this still doesn't address the fact that Mahomes was, and is a dancer who holds on to the ball longer than most QBs (setting himself up for pressures/hits, and making it harder for his line). Compare hold time to pressures/sacks/line rankings, and there's a very strong correlation. 

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Why can't people be happy with Luck and what the franchise has accomplished? That is to the OP and a few others but this turned out to be Luck vs Mahomes. Even at that I would still stick with Luck. Luck is more proven with more good to great years in his career. To the people that would rather have Mahomes, be a Chiefs fan then. Neither one has won a championship yet. KC has already lost Dee Ford and Justin Houston, and now Hill is about to be gone. They have got worse if Hill gets cut and he may after what is going on. Hill is a huge part of their Offense.

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