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Colts in "strong pursuit" of Tyrell Williams

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8 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

If we look back at history (Colts History), even with a HoFer like Manning, we needed both Harrison and Wayne. 2001-2008 (when we had them both) were some of our best years. 2009 was great only because Clark was such a stud when Harrison left. 12-14 were good when we had both Wayne and TY.

 

And TY was an overachiever coming from the 3rd round. Even though I love TY, he's never approached the TD production of first rounders like Harrison or Wayne. 

 

So, very strong evidence that a team even with a HoF QB needs two stud WRs. TY would have been a #3 WR in the days we had Harrison and Wayne both running well.

Luck had the second most passing yards in the league.  I dont think we are hurting as bad as many believe.   

 

You have TY, Inman, hopefully Caine, Johnson and then don't forget we have Hines Ebron and Doyle.  Luck loves to throw to the TE's   I think we may add a WR in FA, but it wont be an AB type of player.

 

A top pick on a WR would be a wasted pick much like the Dorsett pick was.  

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3 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

Luck had the second most passing yards in the league.  I dont think we are hurting as bad as many believe.   

 

You have TY, Inman, hopefully Caine, Johnson and then don't forget we have Hines Ebron and Doyle.  Luck loves to throw to the TE's   I think we may add a WR in FA, but it wont be an AB type of player.

 

A top pick on a WR would be a wasted pick much like the Dorsett pick was.  

I'm not a fan of taking receivers in the first round, but just because Dorsett was a bust doesn't mean it would be a wasted pick.

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1 hour ago, BOTT said:

I'm not a fan of taking receivers in the first round, but just because Dorsett was a bust doesn't mean it would be a wasted pick.

I am saying it would be a wasted pick as far as need goes.  If he’s the BPA and no one is close then yea.   But we don’t need a WR imo

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2 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

I am saying it would be a wasted pick as far as need goes.  If he’s the BPA and no one is close then yea.   But we don’t need a WR imo

 

We dont NEED a WR?!?

 

Congratulations!    You might be the ONLY poster on the website who thinks that.

 

Come on,  Derek..    even your wife knows we NEED a wide receiver!

 

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3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We dont NEED a WR?!?

 

Congratulations!    You might be the ONLY poster on the website who thinks that.

 

Come on,  Derek..    even your wife knows we NEED a wide receiver!

 

If Reggie Wayne were available she would say yes.... as would I 

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2 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

I am saying it would be a wasted pick as far as need goes.  If he’s the BPA and no one is close then yea.   But we don’t need a WR imo

I would have to disagree with your argument. We do need a WR, and I expect one to be taken as early as the first round and no later than the second. This is an excellent draft for that position, and the Colts need to rebuild their WR corps. There is nothing but hope and speculation beyond TY, with the exception of Inman, and he's really not a #2. 

Time to invest. 

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27 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

If Reggie Wayne were available she would say yes.... as would I 

Is aj Brown this years reggie?  What I’ve read about him makes me think so.  I hope we get him. 

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46 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

If Reggie Wayne were available she would say yes.... as would I 

 

Bravo!      :lol:

 

Good come back!!      :thmup:

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The WR that would be worth taking will be gone by the 26th pick.

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59 minutes ago, Hoose said:

I would have to disagree with your argument. We do need a WR, and I expect one to be taken as early as the first round and no later than the second. This is an excellent draft for that position, and the Colts need to rebuild their WR corps. There is nothing but hope and speculation beyond TY, with the exception of Inman, and he's really not a #2. 

Time to invest. 

Well I expect you to be very disappointed then.   Because Ballard agrees with me.   At least that is what he said 

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55 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

Is aj Brown this years reggie?  What I’ve read about him makes me think so.  I hope we get him. 

Not sure.   Would he be available in the 4-5th round?

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The couple wide receivers that would be worth taking in the first round will probably be gone. Ballard is not taking one with his first pick. He will continue to build the defense with the early picks.

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16 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

Not sure.   Would he be available in the 4-5th round?

Odds are AJB doesn’t get out of round 2.   And certainly not past Day 2.

 

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Williams wouldn't be a bad pickup.  Of course you are going to overpay, it's FA, that's how it works.  But they have to spend, what, 89% of the cap?  They are well under that so they gotta spend it somewhere.  It aint my money but I think Williams would help even if he isn't a star.

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21 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

Not sure.   Would he be available in the 4-5th round?

I don’t think so.  From what I’ve read he’s a first or second rounder 

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6 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

Williams wouldn't be a bad pickup.  Of course you are going to overpay, it's FA, that's how it works.  But they have to spend, what, 89% of the cap?  They are well under that so they gotta spend it somewhere.  It aint my money but I think Williams would help even if he isn't a star.

His production is better then Sammy Watkins in KC. Watkins is getting 12 million. So it would be market value if he got 12m. He is young and in his prime. Has proven he can get over 1000 yards in he is number one WR.

We also have 25 of our own FA to pay next year. That 102m will go fast.

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8 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

Luck had the second most passing yards in the league.  I dont think we are hurting as bad as many believe.   

 

You have TY, Inman, hopefully Caine, Johnson and then don't forget we have Hines Ebron and Doyle.  Luck loves to throw to the TE's   I think we may add a WR in FA, but it wont be an AB type of player.

 

A top pick on a WR would be a wasted pick much like the Dorsett pick was.  

Luck was second in passing yards yet we barely made the playoffs. What really hurt this year was that we had no legit #2 at times. And TY getting all the attention from opposing teams killed us at times. If you look at his stats, they were up and down all year.

 

In short, look at our W/L records over the years. Then compare it when we had two legit WRs. The correlation to Ws and WRs is crystal clear. Clark was a godsend in a tweener year, as was Ebron last year. 

 

Give TY a legit running mate, and things will open up big time for him. And TD production will increase big time.

 

Not saying you can't win a SB without two legit WRs, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier. You can also win a SB without a bunch of sacks, but again, it just makes things much harder. 

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34 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Luck was second in passing yards yet we barely made the playoffs. What really hurt this year was that we had no legit #2 at times. And TY getting all the attention from opposing teams killed us at times. If you look at his stats, they were up and down all year.

 

In short, look at our W/L records over the years. Then compare it when we had two legit WRs. The correlation to Ws and WRs is crystal clear. Clark was a godsend in a tweener year, as was Ebron last year. 

 

Give TY a legit running mate, and things will open up big time for him. And TD production will increase big time.

 

Not saying you can't win a SB without two legit WRs, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier. You can also win a SB without a bunch of sacks, but again, it just makes things much harder. 

Fair enough.  TY being hurt and not having Doyle hurt a lot.    I believe we will add a wr but I do not think they use one of the tops picks for one.  Unless one falls to the second or third that they didn't expect.  But I think they get an experienced receiver in FA   But it will not be a top tier guy.  

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28 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

Fair enough.  TY being hurt and not having Doyle hurt a lot.    I believe we will add a wr but I do not think they use one of the tops picks for one.  Unless one falls to the second or third that they didn't expect.  But I think they get an experienced receiver in FA   But it will not be a top tier guy.  

My preference would be to get a FA on a short term contract 1 or 2 years (that can help immediately, but not break the bank long term), AND get a WR with one of their 2nd or 3rd picks. The FA will help bridge a couple years while the drafted WR (and guys like Cain and Inman) develops. To me, the FA is a guy like Tate that might take a short term deal given his age, but is still highly productive. That would allow us to sort of go all in now, but still build long term via the draft.

 

Also, we have to start thinking of post TY years. His speed, IMO, will only last a couple more years. 

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2 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

Well I expect you to be very disappointed then.   Because Ballard agrees with me.   At least that is what he said 

Well then, tell him to give me a call so I can educate him before the draft!

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Reading that there is a good chance A Brown signs with the Raiders This would be great for the Colts as that will take them out of the Williams picture. Maybe would leave just us and Cleveland offering big bucks ?

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2 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

Well I expect you to be very disappointed then.   Because Ballard agrees with me.   At least that is what he said 

The majority of talking heads, including X-GMs, have said our two biggest needs are Pass rush (by Edge or Inside DL) and WR. I doubt Ballard ranks WR anywhere below 3 in terms of needs. The fact it's been reported that we're going after one of the top FA WRs pretty much confirms that. 

 

In terms of who on the current roster "could" be a legit #2... Sure Inman could, but he's likely more to be a rotational guy. He was a Undrafted FA that bounced around for a reason. He's got speed, but lacks vert, and other traits. Love the guy, and want to keep him, but I'm not going to go homer on his potential. Cain "could" be too, but already there are injury concerns. Both have consistency issues. So sure, either could emerge, but I'm not going to bank on it. Going into 2019, neither would considered a legit #2.

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Was talking WR strategy with a buddy of mine. He was more adamant that I was about taking a WR early, or going big in FA. We talked a lot about how much we were "WR by committee" this year, and while some did ok and improved, we were far from adequate. Got me thinking about snap count... Below are the top offenses (yards per game) ranked, and their WR 1 and 2 snap counts.

 

Team / WR1 Snap Count % / WR2 Count % 
KC / 86.6 / 76.8 / 
LAR / 94.6 / 89.9 / 
TB / 84.2 / 70.0 / 
PIT / 89.4 / 86.0 / 
NE / 71.8 / 66.8  / 
ATL / 78.3 / 77.2 / 
IND / 67.2 / 52.2 / 
NO / 88.4 / 62.1 /    (Kamara is as much WR as RB)
BAL / 69.1 / 67.7 /   
CAR / 91.3 / 69.3 /   (McCaffrey is as much WR as RB)
LAC / 79.8 / 76.5 / 

 

Key notes:
-Indy has the lowest WR1 Snap Count %
-Indy has the lowest WR2 Snap Count %
-Indy has the lowest WR1+WR2 Snap Count %
-8 teams have WR2s with higher snapcounts than Indy's WR1
-Not shown, but several teams had WR3s with snapcount % greater than Indy's WR2

 

In short, without Ebron stepping up big time, we would have really struggle on O this year. 

 

Not sure how anyone can say we don't need to either get a WR in the first two rounds, a stud FA, or both. Need a legit #2 guy in the worst way.

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I’m not tripping over giving Tyrell Williams too much money because I know Ballard won’t. We were after Jensen and Norwell last year too. Had interest in Alshon the year before that as well. Ballard will give Williams a value and once the market exceeds that value, they’ll be comfortable walking away.

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21 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

I’m not tripping over giving Tyrell Williams too much money because I know Ballard won’t. We were after Jensen and Norwell last year too. Had interest in Alshon the year before that as well. Ballard will give Williams a value and once the market exceeds that value, they’ll be comfortable walking away.

 

That's my thinking too. I think TW will want to maximize given his age coming off the contract he had. And I don't blame him, but doubt Ballard is willing to get in a bidding war. Ballard will likely say "hey, we like you. you'd do great here long term with a great QB. here's our best offer", and leave it at that. 

 

I've seen "interest" articles all over the place. Buffalo, 49ers, Browns, Colts, etc... I'm sure we'll see a Pitt article soon lol. 

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Here is what will be interesting. Williams isn’t going to get something like brown or Tyreek Hill got. He will get something probably about what Sammy Watkins got. So if one team offers him 12 million would ballard really just walk away or offer  him 12.5 or 13 with maybe more incentives or bigger signing bonus. It’s not like some team is going to offer him five or six million more. 

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If we’re willing to pay that kind of money for another teams ‘3’, why not instead draft a guy like Boykin in the 2nd.  He’s also 6’4, ran a 4.42 (matching TW’s pro day), jumps 4” higher and appears to have great hands and high character.  Seems like the same receiver, except younger and he played against better competition in college.  A much cheaper option.

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9 minutes ago, Breeze said:

If we’re willing to pay that kind of money for another teams ‘3’, why not instead draft a guy like Boykin in the 2nd.  He’s also 6’4, ran a 4.42 (matching TW’s pro day), jumps 4” higher and appears to have great hands and high character.  Seems like the same receiver, except younger and he played against better competition in college.  A much cheaper option.

Love Miles, and would be happy to have him, but he struggles to get off the line. Not saying he can't improve there, but until then, he's not a legit #2. 

 

Not sold on TW either. He was paid the 61st WR last year, so I understand why he wants to maximize. He's better IMO than #3, but wouldn't say he's a guaranteed stud #2 either. I certainly don't see him as a top 20 WR, and if you're not top 20, the Colts shouldn't pay more than 10M a year for him. 

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17 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Was talking WR strategy with a buddy of mine. He was more adamant that I was about taking a WR early, or going big in FA. We talked a lot about how much we were "WR by committee" this year, and while some did ok and improved, we were far from adequate. Got me thinking about snap count... Below are the top offenses (yards per game) ranked, and their WR 1 and 2 snap counts.

 

Team / WR1 Snap Count % / WR2 Count % 
KC / 86.6 / 76.8 / 
LAR / 94.6 / 89.9 / 
TB / 84.2 / 70.0 / 
PIT / 89.4 / 86.0 / 
NE / 71.8 / 66.8  / 
ATL / 78.3 / 77.2 / 
IND / 67.2 / 52.2 / 
NO / 88.4 / 62.1 /    (Kamara is as much WR as RB)
BAL / 69.1 / 67.7 /   
CAR / 91.3 / 69.3 /   (McCaffrey is as much WR as RB)
LAC / 79.8 / 76.5 / 

 

Key notes:
-Indy has the lowest WR1 Snap Count %
-Indy has the lowest WR2 Snap Count %
-Indy has the lowest WR1+WR2 Snap Count %
-8 teams have WR2s with higher snapcounts than Indy's WR1
-Not shown, but several teams had WR3s with snapcount % greater than Indy's WR2

 

In short, without Ebron stepping up big time, we would have really struggle on O this year. 

 

Not sure how anyone can say we don't need to either get a WR in the first two rounds, a stud FA, or both. Need a legit #2 guy in the worst way.

 

 Well sorry, but those numbers don't mean Jack.
 We were developing a largely whole new receiving corp, in a new offense. We are YOUNG.
  It was a PLAN that should reap benefits with experience.
 Most here think we Already have a Stud. 
 And some here will have a great idea of what we need by how CB addresses the roster. Frank & his staff have explained it to him thoroughly.

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17 minutes ago, Breeze said:

If we’re willing to pay that kind of money for another teams ‘3’, why not instead draft a guy like Boykin in the 2nd.  He’s also 6’4, ran a 4.42 (matching TW’s pro day), jumps 4” higher and appears to have great hands and high character.  Seems like the same receiver, except younger and he played against better competition in college.  A much cheaper option.

He is only a 3 because of who else they have. He proved if he has to he can be a number 1. 12 million seems like market value to me. We can keep going out and expecting a 3 or 4 to take pressure off ty but they don’t. Right now we don’t even know if Cain can play in the nfl as a number two. 

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6 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Love Miles, and would be happy to have him, but he struggles to get off the line. Not saying he can't improve there, but until then, he's not a legit #2. 

 

Not sold on TW either. He was paid the 61st WR last year, so I understand why he wants to maximize. He's better IMO than #3, but wouldn't say he's a guaranteed stud #2 either. I certainly don't see him as a top 20 WR, and if you're not top 20, the Colts shouldn't pay more than 10M a year for him. 

 

 If the people that actually know how they will use him believe he can get close to 1000 yds and catch 8 td's then he is worth what THEY are willing to pay him.
 A guy with his tools can do that with Andrew. JMO
  Of course i believe CB & Frank were on the same page last off season and added the type of receiver athletes Frank wanted. They just need time to be coached up, and like REGGIEWAYNE it should take 2+ years.
And yet i think it probable he adds one more good WR somehow. We Must have that 2nd deep threat.

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15 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Well sorry, but those numbers don't mean Jack.
 We were developing a largely whole new receiving corp, in a new offense. We are YOUNG.
  It was a PLAN that should reap benefits with experience.
 Most here think we Already have a Stud. 
 And some here will have a great idea of what we need by how CB addresses the roster. Frank & his staff have explained it to him thoroughly.

Sorry, disagree. 

 

Who are "most" that already think we have a stud. Is that stud Inman? Sorry, but he's limited, and not a legit #2. If Ballard thought he was that stud, we'd have locked him up already.  And if Ballard was though he was a stud, we wouldn't be kicking tires on a WR that we know will cost us at least 10M. In short, beyond TY, we don't have a complete WR that's comparative with most other top Os. You just can't dismiss fact and data with simple opinion.

 

And I agree, we'll find out based on what is done in FA and the draft. If we take a WR in the first two rounds, or get one of the top FAs, then that's means I was correct. 

 

And yes, we are young, and yes we are developing. That will all help with overall depth. That doesn't mean the numbers above mean nothing, nor does it mean the staff is happy with the #2 WR position. 

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5 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Sorry, disagree. 

 

Who are "most" that already think we have a stud. Is that stud Inman? Sorry, but he's limited, and not a legit #2. If Ballard thought he was that stud, we'd have locked him up already.  And if Ballard was though he was a stud, we wouldn't be kicking tires on a WR that we know will cost us at least 10M. In short, beyond TY, we don't have a complete WR that's comparative with most other top Os. You just can't dismiss fact and data with simple opinion.

 

And I agree, we'll find out based on what is done in FA and the draft. If we take a WR in the first two rounds, or get one of the top FAs, then that's means I was correct. 

 

And yes, we are young, and yes we are developing. That will all help with overall depth. That doesn't mean the numbers above mean nothing, nor does it mean the staff is happy with the #2 WR position. 

 

 Anyone who ever heard of TY Hilton.
 And yes the numbers mean nothing because we didn't have our offense in place or the line set for almost half the season. Just double the numbers of the last 8 games and that would be a realistic data point.
 How could the staff be Happy with our #2?
  INMAN isn't a Colt! Cain didn't play a down, and the rookies... were what we would expect they would be.
 But Any knowledgeable fan knows the axion that the biggest jump is from year 1 to year two.
 Our biggest concern is TY. What if he gets hurt. Yes we need another deep threat.
 Who is the stud #2 WR on the..
 2nd leading scoring offense of New Orleans?
 4th New England?
 5th Colts?
tie 6th  Seattle
 9th Bears
10th Atlanta
 We should have one of the better passing attacks Without adding anyone. 

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6 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 If the people that actually know how they will use him believe he can get close to 1000 yds and catch 8 td's then he is worth what THEY are willing to pay him.
 A guy with his tools can do that with Andrew. JMO
  Of course i believe CB & Frank were on the same page last off season and added the type of receiver athletes Frank wanted. They just need time to be coached up, and like REGGIEWAYNE it should take 2+ years.
And yet i think it probable he adds one more good WR somehow. We Must have that 2nd deep threat.

 

Are you under the impression that all those free agent WR's we brought in last year...   that we're actually going to keep most of them on the final 53 man roster?     I don't see that happening.    If they stick,  it's likely on the PS.

 

Those guys were brought in mostly for last year.    I'm not saying we won't re-sign them for the 90 man roster....    but when final cuts are made...    I expect some to be let go,  and some to be brought back to the P.S.     Hard to see many sticking on the final 53.

 

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8 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Anyone who ever heard of TY Hilton.
 And yes the numbers mean nothing because we didn't have our offense in place or the line set for almost half the season. Just double the numbers of the last 8 games and that would be a realistic data point.
 How could the staff be Happy with our #2?
  INMAN isn't a Colt! Cain didn't play a down, and the rookies... were what we would expect they would be.
 But Any knowledgeable fan knows the axion that the biggest jump is from year 1 to year two.
 Our biggest concern is TY. What if he gets hurt. Yes we need another deep threat.
 Who is the stud #2 WR on the..
 2nd leading scoring offense of New Orleans?
 4th New England?
 5th Colts?
tie 6th  Seattle
 9th Bears
10th Atlanta
 We should have one of the better passing attacks Without adding anyone. 

Either you weren't following the earlier conversation, or didn't read the last sentence. Nobody said TY wasn't good.  The basic point of is that WE NEED A LEGIT #2. The numbers and productivity bare that out.

 

If you believe we're fine, that's your opinion. But it's obviously contrary to every draft board or expert out there that includes WR as one of our top needs. It's also pretty clear we're kicking the tires on high end WR FAs.

 

And what you just typed conflicts itself. You ask how the staff could be happy with our #2, but then say we're gonna be good "without adding anyone". If you mean good, but not a contender, then sure.... 

 

I'm sure you ignore the correlation (earlier post) to years when we had two legit WRs, and wins.

 

 

 

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WE had TY and a bunch of 3 and 4 receivers. We need that 2 badly. Imagine getting Williams and Cain is a huge surprise. 

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6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

WE had TY and a bunch of 3 and 4 receivers. We need that 2 badly. Imagine getting Williams and Cain is a huge surprise. 

 

Yup. I don't really care if it's Williams or another top FA WR, or an early pick. I just want a bonafide #2 to take the double coverage off TY, and has the ability to take the top off of a D as well. I have high hopes for Cain, but he's got a ways to go. 

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15 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Are you under the impression that all those free agent WR's we brought in last year...   that we're actually going to keep most of them on the final 53 man roster?     I don't see that happening.    If they stick,  it's likely on the PS.

 

Those guys were brought in mostly for last year.    I'm not saying we won't re-sign them for the 90 man roster....    but when final cuts are made...    I expect some to be let go,  and some to be brought back to the P.S.     Hard to see many sticking on the final 53.

 

 

 Well, Cain and Pascall have real good shots to make the 53.
 So TY makes 3.
I see Rogers as moving on. He just doesn't make guys miss, and get yards after the catch. I believe we aim higher to sign or draft someone to develop who can.

 Could Marcus Johnson make the 53. Yip Frank traded for him because of his Philly experience. And (4.39) 
 So, does Fountain have a shot making the 53. Yip. It may take an injury.
  
 Ishmael and Hogan are going to compete with other signees for the practice squad most likely.
  I would still say, with our running game, pass blocking, TE's, we would have one of the better offenses with these guys above.  But i am Always an optimist!!

Now!  :spit:   

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36 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Either you weren't following the earlier conversation, or didn't read the last sentence. Nobody said TY wasn't good.  The basic point of is that WE NEED A LEGIT #2. The numbers and productivity bare that out.

 

If you believe we're fine, that's your opinion. But it's obviously contrary to every draft board or expert out there that includes WR as one of our top needs. It's also pretty clear we're kicking the tires on high end WR FAs.

 

And what you just typed conflicts itself. You ask how the staff could be happy with our #2, but then say we're gonna be good "without adding anyone". If you mean good, but not a contender, then sure.... 

 

I'm sure you ignore the correlation (earlier post) to years when we had two legit WRs, and wins.

 

 

 

 

 Hahaha!  NO ONE in the World could believe we are fine. The Coaches are NEVER satisfied. Nor the fans. 
 You must be ignoring that i SAID we could still have one of the better passing attacks with the guys we have. With the running game, TY, the TE's, Hines, and the Time Andrew gets, he will Kill most D's with one or two Brady like receivers.
 I posted we NEED ANOTHER DEEP THREAT. Can you read THAT!

 
  I just showed you that 6 of the top ten offenses DON"T HAVE  a "STUD" #2.
 How in the ____ the Colts at 5 in offense doesn't prove the numbers and productivity were good, get a GRIP.
 Of course now he only needs to be "Legit". 
 I have posted if Tyrel Williams can get about 1,000 yards and 8 touchdowns he will be worth what we are willing to pay. And i think he can do that.  But unless TY misses a lot of play, it will be very difficult because Frank already has so many weapons. Maybe he would be worth some of the pricey Million$ to run a lot of go routes to occupy safeties/stretch the D.

 I know i haven't discounted the eye of our Stud GM and his staff, nor Frank or his Teaching staff like some seem to. They have a PLAN.

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    • It sounds like Collins was trying to surround himself with better support prior to joining Indy, but yes, it's great that we've got enough high-character guys on this team who can help keep him clean.  https://www.colts.com/news/jalen-collins-grateful-for-the-opportunity-with-colts   I tend to agree with you regarding who Ballard considers 'bad apples.'  Kelly was dismissed from Clemson because he snapped at coaches after being benched as a sophomore in a Spring Game (and then got in a 'minor fender-bender' in the team's parking lot, which did not lead to any police report -- sounds like he was heated when he left and probably drove a little recklessly).  Prior to joining Clemson, Kelly did send a few tweets or social media messages suggesting he was going to come in and win the starting position right away.  He was ~17-19 years old when these incidents occurred.  Sure, they're not great, but I imagine being a very highly-touted prospect and the nephew of a HOF QB comes with quite a bit of stress, especially at that age.  Not that those were great incidents, but it doesn't necessarily make him a bad person (kind of like you eluded to, these incidents are nowhere near as serious as domestic violence or endangering a child, etc.).    When he was 21, Kelly got in a scuffle with some bouncers at a nightclub in his home town.  Again, not a great incident, but keep in mind he was 21 and was probably going through some hard times as he was being scrutinized nationally for recently being kicked off Clemson and probably had a bit too much to drink with some of his hometown friends.  Not that getting in a scuffle in a nightclub is a good thing, but there are a LOT of 21 year olds who get in scuffles when they've had too much to drink and no big deal is made of it because they're 'normal' kids, not highly touted football players with a celebrity uncle.  Of course,  being a 'star' comes with responsibility and you'd like to think kids know enough to keep themselves under the radar, but I don't think it's an incident which makes him an evil person.   Then, when he was 23-24 he left a Halloween party at Von Miller's house and stumbled into the wrong house.  He didn't steal anything from the house or attempt to injure anyone in the house, from all accounts I've read... he simply had too much to drink and went in and sat on a couch, got chased out by the husband in the house and then went and slept in his SUV.  Again, not a great incident, but I don't think it's something which makes him a terrible person.  Sounds like the kid needs to understand his limits in terms of partying a bit better, but if he wasn't an NFL football player, that charge would be a pretty common thing to read in a police blotter in a large city like that.  He needs to understand, he's going to get more scrutiny as an NFL athlete and due to his past and his ties to Jim Kelly... and it sounds as though he's gotten some counseling and is doing his best to stay away from situations like that in the future.     Ballard and his staff always seem to do their due diligence before bringing players into this team.  The fact that Reich and J. Kelly were teammates for just under a decade probably also helped Chad Kelly in this situation.  I imagine Reich has known Chad for a long time (probably since he was a toddler) and had some conversations with Jim to get assurance that Chad is trying to clean up his act.  While not all of his actions were the greatest, he doesn't seem to have done anything that would be a huge deal and make him a terrible human being if he was just an average Joe.   Jalen Collins' suspensions it sounds like were 2x for smoking weed and 2x for PEDs.  Not great decisions, but again, those aren't things that make him a terrible person.  And as @Scott Pennock said, it's easy, if he slips up again, we release him and move on (well, if he slips up for PEDs again, we won't have to deal with him, the NFL will suspend him for 2 years and by that time, he'll probably be too old to come back and compete for an NFL roster spot).  To be honest, I am more concerned with the PED use than the weed from a young man in the NFL... but I don't know all the circumstances (e.g., did he just not do his research and took a supplement on the banned list by accident (this seems to happen a lot, and in other sports you are starting to see guys winning cases by proving they accidentally took a tainted substance)? was he battling a nagging injury and took something to try to help recover faster (this also happens, e.g., Andy Pettite admitted he took PEDs several times in his career, but moreso for recovery than to enhance his performance, like being put on the 10 day -DL instead of the 60 day-DL)?  Or did he actually knowingly try to cheat by taking substances to give him a major advantage over other players (all these guys take supplements, but there are supplements which are more advantageous than others)?).  I would be more worried if this guy is actually a major cheater who felt he didn't have enough raw ability to play in this league to the point he had to take banned substances... but he already is well aware, if he screws up again, his NFL days are over.   In terms of Okerere, Ballard and others have already said numerous times that they did their due diligence about his alleged incident and talked to his coaches and others around him and found no reason not to bring the guy to Indy.     If allegations turn out to be true, I doubt Ballard would bring in a guy like Tyreek Hill.  Maybe it's just my opinion, but assaulting your spouse or your child are way more serious issues about someone's character than smoking weed, pulling a McAfee and falling into a canal, or having too much to drink and accidentally stumbling into the wrong place (especially without attacking anyone or vandalizing the place).  I, for one, am happy Ballard isn't against giving guys who have not done anything very seriously wrong another chance.  Like Ballard says "Kids make mistakes."      
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