Colts in "strong pursuit" of Tyrell Williams

[BProland85]

REALLY hope we don't overpay if we target him once FA begins.

 

This WR Free agent class is super weak, and there are good WRs to be had in the draft.

 

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

Thinking the idea of going after Williams, would be to keep speed and add height to the outside.  Let's say Ballard really liked what he seen from Cain, and is betting that he improves this off-season.  This will continue to let us move TY around (mostly in the slot) and allow us to have that same speed and height on the outside with both Williams and Cain.

 

*Just a thought

[ar1888]

I watched Williams play quite a bit this past season. There were many games he completely disappeared. He can play, but will not be worth the money he will be seeking. Reminds me very much of Donte Moncrief. By that I mean came up big in some games. Invisible others. 

[Matthew Gilbert]

16 minutes ago, onebad150 said:

If gets 12M a year it won't be from the Colt's,   I must be the only one that likes Devin Funchess I think he has a lot of UP side and is way more affordable

 

Bringing in Funchess over Williams sounds like a Ballard to me.

[Colts1324]

35 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I wouldn't pay him more than $6 million a year to be honest. He's a no 3 receiver IMO who I hope Ballard doesn't fall for overpaying because of a SD connection. I'd honestly be disappointed if we paid $10 million +.

I agree. The Chargers haven’t really blown away the league with their WR group. If he is worth $11-$12 million a year, he should have 2 or 3 1000 yard years with 60+ receptions. He is worth 7-8 tops. 

[Mr.Debonair]

 

Looks pretty good to me! Music may not be safe for work fyi

[Yoshinator]

38 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Why is Williams being pursued by the Colts?      How about this?     From ESPN,  where Williams is now ranked the 10th top FA available.

 

 

He might not be a household name, but since the start of the 2016 season, Williams has averaged more yards per reception (15.9) than all but six pass-catchers in the NFL (minimum 43 catches). He might be the best big (6-foot-4) deep threat approaching the market.

 

Williams takes the top off a defense.    The other options,  less so.

 

As to why the dip in production.

 

Remember,  the Chargers took WR Mike Williams, out of Clemson,  top-10 a few years ago,  but he missed the season due to a bad back.  Also, Keenan Allen has been hurt some.    Tyrell Williams' numbers soared.    TW's numbers went back down when Mike Williams came back.  Also,  TE Hudson Henry played after injury and the Chargers had other receiving options.    The ball was being spread around.      So Mike Williams had less targets.

 

My $$$ ceiling for Williams is $12 mill per.   Just as long as TYH remains the highest paid in our locker-room.    And I'd be fine extending TY a few years as well to put more guaranteed money in his pocket.   If someone wants to pay Williams more than use,   we move on to whoever are our other options...    Humphries?    Tate?   

 

Thanks NCF, I appreciate this little piece. Makes me feel better if we sign him.  

[MTC]

I don't view Jason La Canfora as a reliable reporter. I would take everything he reports with a grain of salt.

[#12.]

What has been the criticism of our WR group?  We have a roster full of slot receivers and no one who can win on the outside.  Makes sense this is who they would target.  It's a bit of a win now move, also.  He knows the system, knows Siriani.  

[stitches]

Others have mentioned the dynamics of adding a player that is obviously worse than TY Hilton to the lockerroom and being paid more than him. That's fair and here comes my question. How do you guys feel about giving TY an extension and pay raise? We can definitely afford it and it will definitely be cheaper now than later... AND TY has shown that he deserves a pay raise. 

[richard pallo]

"Strong Pursuit"  means we are willing to pay him.  I can see him getting a contract close to TY and we extend TY as well.  

[Superman]

1 minute ago, #12. said:

We have a roster full of slot receivers and no one who can win on the outside.

 

IMO, we don't have a single good slot receiver. Everyone pegs Hilton as a slot because he's small, but he doesn't play like a slot.

 

I also think people overrate the prototpyical outside receivers, mostly on the basis of size and speed. Hilton wins on the outside more often than most prototypical outside receivers, but he's not 6'2", 220 pounds, so he gets pegged as a slot only.

 

I want separation, reliable catching, and ability to break tackles and gain YAC. Not the "end zone threat" or the "guy who can win outside." Although if someone who has the full package comes available, sign me up. But that's most likely at top 20 draft pick; no one in this year's FA class meets that criteria.

[DownHillRunner]

People who say they worry about him and his target rate are lot looking at facts. He gets most of his targets when Keenan Allen is not on the field. Rivers has several people he can distribute the ball too. 

 

 

 

That being said, as far as the years and amount goes; his projected market value is $9.6 million. It comes out to a contract just little under $29 million.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

Others have mentioned the dynamics of adding a player that is obviously worse than TY Hilton to the lockerroom and being paid more than him. That's fair and here comes my question. How do you guys feel about giving TY an extension and pay raise? We can definitely afford it and it will definitely be cheaper now than later... AND TY has shown that he deserves a pay raise. 

 

I wouldn't. There's the matter of precedent; we already paid Hilton two years before he would have hit free agency (counting one year of the tag), but that made sense because he wasn't making any real money, and we could spread out the cap hits over six years. Don't want to start giving guys extensions with two years remaining on a strong veteran contract.

 

Also, when Hilton's contract expires, he'll be 31, turning 32 that next season. So we're giving a raise to a player and contracting him into his mid 30s? And he's a speed-based receiver who doesn't score a lot of TDs? 

 

Last thing, the only way a Hilton extension makes sense to me is if we're adding less expensive years on the back end, which brings down his yearly average, kind of undermining your stated objective of making sure he's the highest paid receiver on the roster.

 

I just don't see it as an important factor. Hilton's contract is four years old now, arguably came at a discount because of when he signed it, and the market is different now. If we sign a playmaker in FA, it stands to reason that his contract will compete with Hilton's, based on the changed market.

[Yoshinator]

If we do sign Tyrell in FA, I hope we still draft a WR in the first 4 rounds. Cain and Fountain are question marks, as are the rest besides Hilton to an extent, and we need as much competition as we can get at that position.

[#12.]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

IMO, we don't have a single good slot receiver. Everyone pegs Hilton as a slot because he's small, but he doesn't play like a slot.

 

I also think people overrate the prototpyical outside receivers, mostly on the basis of size and speed. Hilton wins on the outside more often than most prototypical outside receivers, but he's not 6'2", 220 pounds, so he gets pegged as a slot only.

 

I want separation, reliable catching, and ability to break tackles and gain YAC. Not the "end zone threat" or the "guy who can win outside." Although if someone who has the full package comes available, sign me up. But that's most likely at top 20 draft pick; no one in this year's FA class meets that criteria.

 

No, I would love to have a great slot receiver, but I'll put it this way - we're much closer to having the slot covered than we are to having this type of threat.  

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I wouldn't pay him more than $6 million a year to be honest. He's a no 3 receiver IMO who I hope Ballard doesn't fall for overpaying because of a SD connection. I'd honestly be disappointed if we paid $10 million +.

 

Thats the going rate for Williams.   I’m very been posting about this for months.  Spotrac pegged him at $10 mill for three years.   I said then it would take more dollars and more years than that to sign him.  And it’s looking like a good prediction.

 

wed never offer 6 million.   It’s an insult.   A waste of time.   $10 mill per is only a conversation starter.

 

Remember, both Reich and Siriani were with Williams in San Diego.  They know him well.   Ballard isn’t doing anything without their heavy input.

 

Trust these guys.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If we have Williams that big of a contract it would be easy to fix the Hilton situation.  They can always rip up Hilton’s contract to give him more money and maybe a extra year added on. I think that would be a smart move and show respect to Hilton after everything he has done.

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I wouldn't. There's the matter of precedent; we already paid Hilton two years before he would have hit free agency (counting one year of the tag), but that made sense because he wasn't making any real money, and we could spread out the cap hits over six years. Don't want to start giving guys extensions with two years remaining on a strong veteran contract.

 

Also, when Hilton's contract expires, he'll be 31, turning 32 that next season. So we're giving a raise to a player and contracting him into his mid 30s? And he's a speed-based receiver who doesn't score a lot of TDs? 

 

Last thing, the only way a Hilton extension makes sense to me is if we're adding less expensive years on the back end, which brings down his yearly average, kind of undermining your stated objective of making sure he's the highest paid receiver on the roster.

 

I just don't see it as an important factor. Hilton's contract is four years old now, arguably came at a discount because of when he signed it, and the market is different now. If we sign a playmaker in FA, it stands to reason that his contract will compete with Hilton's, based on the changed market.

 

From what I'm seeing his contract ends when he will be 31, but his money is not guaranteed. I see very little chance that we don't guarantee those 2 years(13M and 14.5M respectively) My point is... why don't we guarantee those years with a raise to say 16M now(that's close to 5M bump for Hilton) and add another 2 years again partially(low guarantee) or non-guaranteed(maybe you drop those last 2 years to 14-15M)? This way you can have him for those 2 years, while giving him the raise he deserves. He's not shown any signs of slowing down at all so far. If he does in two years time you can reevaluate the situation. 

[Coltsfan0112]

I don't believe a word Canfora says. The guy is so unreliable. Plus i don't see Ballard paying top market price for a #3 receiver. I know he played with other receivers but Ballard is not that type of guy to spend that type of money when he's not worth the money. Ill eat my words but just don't see it happening

[Yoshinator]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Thats the going rate for Williams.   I’m very been posting about this for months.  Spotrac pegged him at $10 mill for three years.   I said then it would take more dollars and more years than that to sign him.  And it’s looking like a good prediction.

 

wed never offer 6 million.   It’s an insult.   A waste of time.   $10 mill per is only a conversation starter.

 

Remember, both Reich and Siriani were with Williams in San Diego.  They know him well.   Ballard isn’t doing anything without their heavy input.

 

Trust these guys.

 

I saw your ESPN piece and thanked you for it. I feel better about him now than I did about 30 mins ago. He's also 27, which is good. I just didn't want to break the bank for him. If he's the 10th ranked player in FA though, then he's better than I thought. We'll see what happens. He fills a much needed role at WR with his pure height anyway.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If Doyle comes back healthy I think he covers that slot receiver position pretty well.

[TomDiggs]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

IMO, we don't have a single good slot receiver. Everyone pegs Hilton as a slot because he's small, but he doesn't play like a slot.

 

I also think people overrate the prototpyical outside receivers, mostly on the basis of size and speed. Hilton wins on the outside more often than most prototypical outside receivers, but he's not 6'2", 220 pounds, so he gets pegged as a slot only.

 

I want separation, reliable catching, and ability to break tackles and gain YAC. Not the "end zone threat" or the "guy who can win outside." Although if someone who has the full package comes available, sign me up. But that's most likely at top 20 draft pick; no one in this year's FA class meets that criteria.

 

Yes!

 

This 100x over!

 

I do not care if the guy plays inside or outside. I do not care if he has long speed or short area quickness. I do care if he can get open, gain separation and then make some plays after the catch.

 

Edelman is small and not fast but he is quick and can run routes and is tough. He was almost uncoverable in the playoffs.

 

Having a guy like that who can reliably get open even when you know the ball is coming his way is incredibly valuable. I would pay a guy $10-$12M if he can consistently do that.

 

This is why I want Golden Tate. He is a YAC machine. He is the media and self-professed king of YAC and the numbers back it up.

 

That is where I would invest my WR money if we are going to throw big coin around personally.

[Coltsfan0112]

Also I'm shocked Confora would know this when Jay Glazer mentioned how the Colts are the most tight sealed organization in the NFL and how he never hears any rumors coming of their building.

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If we do sign Tyrell in FA, I hope we still draft a WR in the first 4 rounds. Cain and Fountain are question marks, as are the rest besides Hilton to an extent, and we need as much competition as we can get at that position.

 

We WILL draft a WR in the first 4 rounds.  I’d be shocked I’d we didn’t.

 

Honestly...  no worries.       

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

From what I'm seeing his contract ends when he will be 31, but his money is not guaranteed. I see very little chance that we don't guarantee those 2 years(13M and 14.5M respectively) My point is... why don't we guarantee those years with a raise to say 16M now(that's close to 5M bump for Hilton) and add another 2 years again partially(low guarantee) or non-guaranteed(maybe you drop those last 2 years to 14-15M)? This way you can have him for those 2 years, while giving him the raise he deserves. He's not shown any signs of slowing down at all so far. If he does in two years time you can reevaluate the situation. 

I don’t see Ballard raising TY’s Annual salary.   But I do see him trying to extend a year or two pPLUS adding some guaranteed $$$.   Guaranteed money is the key.

 

And wr’s have a bad tendency to age badly and quickly.   It’s often not pretty.    We want to be respectful, but not foolish.

 

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

Also I'm shocked Confora would know this when Jay Glazer mentioned how the Colts are the most tight sealed organization in the NFL and how he never hears any rumors coming of their building.

 

The info doesn’t have to come the Colts.    I’m sure it doesn’t.

 

But it could come williams’ agent who is trying to raise interest in his client.  That’s likely what is happening.

[chad72]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The info doesn’t have to come the Colts.    I’m sure it doesn’t.

 

But it could come williams’ agent who is trying to raise interest in his client.  That’s likely what is happening.

 

Once I hear Tyrell Williams is in the Colts building, that is when I will start speculating. Otherwise, this time of the year, the news is par for the course, agent propaganda leaked to the media, turning a little interest into strong interest and a strong interest into "close to certainty" descriptions.

 

$10 mil. per year is probably easier for me to accept, given the inflated market for WRs but $12-13 mil. is a bit too rich, especially if we can fork that amount of cash on defensive playmakers. 

[BProland85]

55 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

"Strong Pursuit"  means we are willing to pay him.  I can see him getting a contract close to TY and we extend TY as well.  

 

 

I really hope you're wrong. If we were to pay Williams close to what Hilton is getting paid, we should be laughed at. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, BProland85 said:

 

 

I really hope you're wrong. If we were to pay Williams close to what Hilton is getting paid, we should be laughed at. 

That’s his market.   Williams may not sign with the Colts but the team that signs him is going to pay $11-13 mill.   That’s his rate and teams WILL pay that.

 

No one will be laughing.   

 

Scroll up to a previous post I wrote about why we are pushing Williams.   There’s s big section in bold.   Read that and you’ll understand why he’s going to get that money.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Yes we will  redo Hilton’s contract if we get Williams and pay him that much. That is just the right thing to do. 

[RNGDShobby]

This was a nice report to wake up to. He's proven he can go over 1000yds. 6'+. Go get him.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Colts1324 said:

I agree. The Chargers haven’t really blown away the league with their WR group. If he is worth $11-$12 million a year, he should have 2 or 3 1000 yard years with 60+ receptions. He is worth 7-8 tops. 

Sorry.   No, this is false.   The Chargers WR group is one of the BEST.   That’s why they’re willing to let Williams walk.

 

They’ve got Keenan Allen who is top-15.

 

They’ve got Mike Williams, a top-10 draft pick who shows great promise.  Their 4th WR is Travis Benjamin who has played great football for them.

 

They can’t pay everyone.  They also have to pay Rivers and Gordon and that defense.

 

The Chargers aren’t letting Tyrell Williams walk because they don’t like  him.   It’s more for salary cap reasons.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, BProland85 said:

REALLY hope we don't overpay if we target him once FA begins.

 

This WR Free agent class is super weak, and there are good WRs to be had in the draft.

 

You comment about the FA class is true.   Fair point.  

 

But the problem is you cant rely on a rookie WR.   Rookie WRs often take a year or two to get up to speed.   The ones who are great their rookie year are more the exception to the rule.   That’s why you need a veteran FA WR who can step on and deliver right away,  no matter who it is.

 

[Colts_Fan12]

If we pay a # 3 WR top market money I'll be so disappointed. 

[CR91]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

That doesn’t bother me because there really aren’t really any stars our there in FA.  So saying he will be the highest paid means nothing.

[pgt_rob]

Hmm.. I kinda want him. I like the way he can go up and grab the ball over top of the defense. We don't have a player like that except for maybe Ebron or Doyle. 

[DougDew]

It sounds more like a prediction simply because of the combo of need and cap space more than an actual rumor.  Or hype floated by an agent.

[buccolts]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

It sounds more like a prediction simply because of the combo of need and cap space more than an actual rumor.  Or hype floated by an agent.

Yep, or the legal tampering period has no limits.