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Robert Kraft Charged in Prostitution Probe


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But let's talk about how awful Jim Irsay is...

hey look, the Patriots being caught on video again doing something illegal. 

When I first read this story, I thought it was just an older man with possible mild cognitive impairment doing what a lot of guys do. But this is a lot bigger than I originally thought. Kraft's role i

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11 hours ago, esmort said:

 

Isn't it supposed to work the opposite of that? (Innocent until proven guilty)

 

This is true.  OTOH, in this information age, it was revealed to the public some items leading to the arrest.  This is what the public reacts to. What folks do not know is (as Paul Harvey used to say...) the rest of the story.  That is what the court room is for, and the burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt is on the prosecuting team.  Kraft's lawyers are readying his defense in the meantime.

 

Until the trial or settlement is complete, we don't truly know if and to what extent he was involved. But his arrest alone does put some form of state restraint on him, and rights to move freely are limited until the proceedings come to a conclusion.  (one way or another)

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2 hours ago, Nadine said:

'johns' who have been charged so far have not been arrested as near as I can determine. I wonder if any of them will have information useful to investigating this criminal enterprise. 100s of charges so far and the investigation is ongoing

 

This is going to be around awhile-

 

************************************

Snyder said the men were the “monsters in this equation.”

 

The goal, he said, was to treat the women as victims, rather than paid sex workers.

Snyder said this isn’t a case in which a woman is captured and kept against her will and locked up or kept at gunpoint.

 

“What you see instead are women that come here ostensibly to be maids or to work in restaurants, they bring their children,” Snyder said, noting they then end up in this situation.

 

Asked whether celebrities or prominent people could be involved, Snyder said, “There will be a news maker in this one.”

 

***************************************

 

They said this is 'the tip of the iceberg'. !!!  This is well beyond Robert Kraft soliciting girls twice... unless there's more they have not leaked.

 

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11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

They said this is 'the tip of the iceberg'. !!!  This is well beyond Robert Kraft soliciting girls twice... unless there's more they have not leaked.

Honestly, I'm heartened to see so many law enforcement agencies working together and following all the threads. Props to them and I hope they take this whole syndicate down.

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12 hours ago, esmort said:

 

Isn't it supposed to work the opposite of that? (Innocent until proven guilty)

 

Yes, in a court of law, not the court of public opinion. Also, many people have been found "not guilty" by a jury of their peers but have in fact committed unlawful acts. 

 

Here is a question for you:  If you saw someone recorded molesting a child but the person was found "not guilty" in a court of law for whatever reason, would you allow that person to be alone with your child?

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5 hours ago, JimJaime said:

Ya but I never minimized what he did. What you quoted was me saying (from what we know) it didn’t bother me.  Could that change? Of course but right now an old widower getting a happy ending a couple of times isn’t earth shattering or awful to me.

I guess that all boils down to how you feel about prostitution.

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14 hours ago, ColtsSouljah said:

 

Perhaps you should read back through this thread. Your comment is factually wrong.

I wonder, did they have to wait for facts in each of the other scandals involving the Patriots? If so, that’s gotta be a pain in the butt to do every single year

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15 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I wonder, did they have to wait for facts in each of the other scandals involving the Patriots? If so, that’s gotta be a pain in the butt to do every single year

 

They might be used to it by now.

 

Just another Patriots' offseason.

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On 2/22/2019 at 1:48 PM, Batman said:

My honest perspective as a Pats fan-

 

Given that other big names are involved this is likely an enterprise that is known to wealthy parties, meaning that in my estimation Kraft is aware of the human trafficking component. Rings like these exist to shield powerful people from the risk of seeking out prostitutes on the street level with more visibility. They’ll probably find emails or other compromising communication. Definitely disappointing as a fan. I work to combat these kinds of issues so this one hits close to home and really Saints my view of Kraft, unfortunately. 

 

Well said. 

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On 2/22/2019 at 2:01 PM, Gramz said:

There are women and young girls being held captive, and being forced to do things to, and with men and they probably have no idea of these mens power and notoriety.

 

The most important story to come out of this would be to get these gals some help.

 

Exactly. It is awful. I wonder if they even have access to medical care. Since they are trafficked, they are probably undocumented and cannot get medical insurance. And now that this has been discovered, what happens to them? Will they be returned to the country that they so desperately wanted to leave?  (This is not a political statement. I am curious to know where these exploited women will go.)

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Just now, NFLfan said:

 

I wonder if they even have access to medical care. Since they are trafficked, they are probably undocumented and cannot access medical insurance. And now that this has been discovered, what happens to them? Will they be returned to the country that they so desperately wanted to leave?  (This is not a political statement. I am curious to know where these exploited women will go.)

I have been asking those same questions. 

 

Sad situation, and not because of Kraft and these other high profile guys, it's sad for these women and girls.  Like I said, I hope they can get some help!

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5 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I wonder if they even have access to medical care. Since they are trafficked, they are probably undocumented and cannot access medical insurance. And now that this has been discovered, what happens to them? Will they be returned to the country that they so desperately wanted to leave?  (This is not a political statement. I am curious to know where these exploited women will go.)

 

The latest I've seen:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

One spa worker is currently in protective custody while others are being helped and none, Martin County Sheriff William Snyder said, will be prosecuted. He said he is willing help to protect the women from deportation, as their cooperation is crucial.

.

"Over my dead body will any of these women be prosecuted," said Snyder, adding that the women are currently undergoing mental and physical examinations at local treatment facilities.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Long term, I don't know.

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On 2/22/2019 at 2:55 PM, Nadine said:

Add to that that the prosecutors don't cut some kind of a deal that allows them to go to jail just to sleep, and go to the office during business hours for a year and a half.  That's the deal Epstein got for trafficking in girls on his creepy private island

 

I don't recall this Epstein case but I found an article in the Miami Herald. (shaking my head) It's awful. 

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22 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

https://nypost.com/2019/02/24/patriots-haters-are-flocking-to-the-massage-parlor-where-robert-kraft-got-busted/

 

I'm about 25 miles away from there. Thinking about going there too to take a selfie. Lol

 

I hate to joke about something this reprehensible, but...

 

I wonder how many Dolphins fans are now "eskimo brothers" with Robert Kraft...

 

:thinking:

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On 2/22/2019 at 3:07 PM, JimJaime said:

BB been divorced, because he lived and sleeper football.  (No real “issue” with woman)

No issues, I assume you mean other than his affair with a married woman and sending her boxes of cash via fedex.

On 2/22/2019 at 3:07 PM, JimJaime said:

 

Brady been married to Gizelle for ages and he broke up with Moynahan BEFORE he knew she was pregnant but has maintained a good relationship with her and his son.

Good for him.

On 2/22/2019 at 3:07 PM, JimJaime said:

 

Kraft before this was married to his wife for like 50 years till she died and it appears he has shown poor judgement here but again being a Jon is hardly an earth shattering offense. I know all the trafficking people will say “he must have” fact is right now all we know is he is charged as a common John something anyone else gets community service and MAYBE 30 days in jail for. 

Sure, everybody does it, it shouldn't even be illegal, right?  I will let the law handle the punishment, but I don't need the legal system for this to be further evidence that Kraft is a morally corrupt individual.  He should be forced to sell the team and receive a lifetime ban from the NFL, like the NBA did with Stearling.  What will probably happen is Kraft will be suspended for at least 8 games and fined $1 million or more.

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20 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

No issues, I assume you mean other than his affair with a married woman and sending her boxes of cash via fedex.

Good for him.

Sure, everybody does it, it shouldn't even be illegal, right?  I will let the law handle the punishment, but I don't need the legal system for this to be further evidence that Kraft is a morally corrupt individual.  He should be forced to sell the team and receive a lifetime ban from the NFL, like the NBA did with Stearling.  What will probably happen is Kraft will be suspended for at least 8 games and fined $1 million or more.

and that's if all he ends up being charged with is just the rub n tug. If it's worse, then that's a whole different story. 

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23 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

No issues, I assume you mean other than his affair with a married woman and sending her boxes of cash via fedex.

Good for him.

Sure, everybody does it, it shouldn't even be illegal, right?  I will let the law handle the punishment, but I don't need the legal system for this to be further evidence that Kraft is a morally corrupt individual.  He should be forced to sell the team and receive a lifetime ban from the NFL, like the NBA did with Stearling.  What will probably happen is Kraft will be suspended for at least 8 games and fined $1 million or more.

 

IMO, no prostitution should not be illegal.  It should be legalized and regulated.

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9 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Because government run agencies do everything legally, are so efficient, and never corrupted?

 

Did I say that? :P  However legalizing and regulating, forcing both the workers and the clientele to provide valid identifying information at the very least, would provide some security for both sides.

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27 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

and that's if all he ends up being charged with is just the rub n tug. If it's worse, then that's a whole different story. 

Many people in this thread act like it's two consenting adults who are just exchanging money for a service.  But the majority of women in the sex trade business are not in it because that is their career choice.  There is no way to regulate via laws the depravity of man but they can certainly punish those that have been caught.

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Just now, Coffeedrinker said:

Many people in this thread act like it's two consenting adults who are just exchanging money for a service.  But the majority of women in the sex trade business are not in it because that is their career choice.  There is no way to regulate via laws the depravity of man but they can certainly punish those that have been caught.

very true, and that's why this could end up being very bad for him in the long run....this involves human trafficking and not your run of the mill street corner or escort.

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Many people in this thread act like it's two consenting adults who are just exchanging money for a service.  But the majority of women in the sex trade business are not in it because that is their career choice.  There is no way to regulate via laws the depravity of man but they can certainly punish those that have been caught.

 

All I hear from Pats and Boston fans is "yeah, I hear you, but...", making excuses. Yes, I get it, innocent until proven guilty and we have to wait till the facts are out but it also makes it seem like trivializing the enormity of the conditions being uncovered. 

 

You sometimes wonder if their life purely revolves around Boston sports and if they realize life is bigger than their sports teams. It is also probable that there are lot of "Johnny come lately" fans that drown out the others too. 

 

I would have been up in arms even if it was Jim Irsay caught in the same situation, as to why he used poor judgement in getting close to it. 

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I keep seeing the word "prostitution" when it should be "sex slavery" or "human trafficking". I hope the NFL does not get blind sided by the difference here. With the long running history of players mistreating the women in their lives this human trafficking has to be the last straw. If it is not then what will be?

Questions:

1 What should the NE fans do?

2 Will this motivate some players to seek to be traded?

3 Will this push Gronk to retire?

4 What should the networks do?

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37 minutes ago, King Colt said:

I keep seeing the word "prostitution" when it should be "sex slavery" or "human trafficking". I hope the NFL does not get blind sided by the difference here. With the long running history of players mistreating the women in their lives this human trafficking has to be the last straw. If it is not then what will be?

Questions:

1 What should the NE fans do?

2 Will this motivate some players to seek to be traded?

3 Will this push Gronk to retire?

4 What should the networks do?

1. I don't see this affecting their fans. :dunno:

2. I doubt it.

3. I doubt it.

4. Nothing right now. Report the facts as they become more clear.

 

 Right now this is between Robert Kraft and law enforcement in Florida.

 

There's no reason to believe any of the above mentioned people had any knowledge of this.

 

 

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1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

All I hear from Pats and Boston fans is "yeah, I hear you, but...", making excuses. Yes, I get it, innocent until proven guilty and we have to wait till the facts are out but it also makes it seem like trivializing the enormity of the conditions being uncovered. 

 

You sometimes wonder if their life purely revolves around Boston sports and if they realize life is bigger than their sports teams. It is also probable that there are lot of "Johnny come lately" fans that drown out the others too. 

 

I would have been up in arms even if it was Jim Irsay caught in the same situation, as to why he used poor judgement in getting close to it. 

 

The problem is that you are all jumping to a conclusion that he was involved in the human trafficking element of this story...and granted, the way the headlines were written did him no favors. 

 

This could quite literally be nothing more than a case of an old rich guy paying for a quickie...the point is we just don't know yet...but come here for your news and you would be convinced that Kraft was selling underage asian girls out of the Gillette Stadium locker room. 

 

It's an embarrassing situation for him, but to be honest, its starting to sound less and less like reality and the narrative playing out here are one in the same. 

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56 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

The problem is that you are all jumping to a conclusion that he was involved in the human trafficking element of this story...and granted, the way the headlines were written did him no favors. 

 

This could quite literally be nothing more than a case of an old rich guy paying for a quickie...the point is we just don't know yet...but come here for your news and you would be convinced that Kraft was selling underage asian girls out of the Gillette Stadium locker room. 

 

It's an embarrassing situation for him, but to be honest, its starting to sound less and less like reality and the narrative playing out here are one in the same. 

 

He was not charged with trafficking, so that is all I am going with. I am not blind to the facts of this case.

 

However Patriots fans dragging Irsay into this, when things are apples and oranges, and making it into another "Us vs the World" thing is just as out-of-left-field as Colts fans making Kraft seem guilty of trafficking, IMO.

 

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1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

He was not charged with trafficking, so that is all I am going with. I am not blind to the facts of this case.

 

However Patriots fans dragging Irsay into this, when things are apples and oranges, and making it into another "Us vs the World" thing is just as out-of-left-field as Colts fans making Kraft seem guilty of trafficking, IMO.

 

 

Yes, the natural reaction of an immature person when somebody is accused of something is 'yeah but, you did this'.

 

I will, however, say that it isn't just some Patriots fans bringing up Irsay. Many of the national talk shows have mentioned Irsay's situation as a way to compare because it is so seldom that an owner gets punished for something. There just isn't any precedent for this, so people go right into trying to find someone or something to compare it to. Unfortunately, that lands on Irsay in this case.

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I don't understand how these investigations work and how people are charged but not arrested nor even contacted yet......but their names get released.

 

Apparently some but not all names have been released, at least that's what 'sources say'

 

Is that how these things happen?

 

I would have expected 'charged' and then ALL names released. Or at least names released as they are charged. 

 

Or are they talking to everyone's lawyers and deciding IF they will pursue charges?

 

BTW, even the link to the story I just read referenced prostitution rather than human trafficking.  Was anyone other than the primaries in the business there by their own free will? I'd really like to know that.

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/robert-kraft-is-just-one-of-many-rich-and-powerful-men-busted-in-florida-prostitution-ring

 

It's confusing

 

Update: They had a press conference today.  There will be no more names forthcoming. Everybody has already been named.

 

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/2019/02/25/florida-state-attorney-news-conference-jupiter-spa-tied-human-trafficking-operation/2980993002/

 

It sounds like they want more people to speak up about what they've seen.  I understand that they moved these women around and at least some of the women on video tape have since been moved and they don't know where they are.

 

However, they're emphasizing that video evidence should be enough in court.  None of the customers have been charged with human trafficking as of now.

 

 

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Williams             Auburn WR         6'2"        224 98.   Tutu Atwell Louisville              WRS       5'9"        156 99.   Baron Browning        Ohio State           ILB          6'3"        248 100.           Ronnie Perkins  Oklahoma           OLB        6'4'         230 101.           Dazz Newsome North Carolina   WR         5'11"      175 102.           Paulson Adebo  Stanford              CB           6'1"        190 103.           Richard LeCounte III        Georgia S              5'11"      190 104.           Damonte Coxie Memphis             WR         6'3''        197 105.           Aaron Robinson UCF        CB           5'11''      193 106.           Jaret Patterson Buffalo RB           5'9"        195 107.           Drake Jackson    Kentucky             OC          6'2''        292 108.           Sage Surratt        Wake Forest       WR         6'2"        215 109.           Dayo Odeyingbo              Vanderbilt           DL5T      6'5''        279 110.           Israel Mukuamu               South Carolina   CB           6'3"        205 111.           Hunter Long       Boston College  TE           6'5"        253 112.           Kenny Yeboah   Ole Miss               TE           6'4''        240 113.           Marlon Tuipulotu             USC        DL3T      6'1"        308 114.           Divine Deablo    Virginia Tech      S              6'3''        226 115.           Khalil Herbert    Virginia Tech      RBC        5'9"        205 116.           Rashad Weaver Pitt         EDGE     6'5"        270 117.           Eric Stokes          Georgia CB           6'1"        185 118.           Ar'Darius Washington    TCU        S              5'8"        175 119.           Aaron Banks       Notre Dame       OG         6'5"        330 120.           Pete Werner      Ohio State           ILB          6'3''        239 121.           Chris Rumph II   Duke     EDGE     6'3"        225 122.           Tony Poljan        Virginia TE           6'7"        265 123.           Trey Hill                Georgia OC          6'4"        330 124.           Cary Angeline    North Carolina State       TE           6'7"        250 125.           Ihmir Smith-Marsette    Iowa      WR         6'2"        175 126.           Kylin Hill               Mississippi State               RB           5'11"      215 127.           Charles Snowden             Virginia OLB        6'6"        232 128.           Caden Sterns     Texas    S              6'0"        210 129.           Rodarius Williams             Oklahoma State CB           6'0"        193 130.           Quinn Meinerz  UW-Whitewater              OC          6'3"        320 131.           Keith Taylor        Washington        CB           6'3"        191 132.           Elijah Mitchell    Louisiana             RB           5'11"      221 133.           Tedarrell Slaton Florida  DL1T      6'5"        358 134.           Pooka Williams  Kansas  RBC        5'10"      170 135.           Olaijah Griffin    USC        CB           6'0''        170 136.           Torrance Marable            Coastal Carolina                RBC        5'10"      200 137.           Damon Hazelton              Missouri               WR         6'2"        215 138.           Tariq Thompson               San Diego State S              6'0"        200 139.           Ta'Quon Graham              Texas    DL3T      6'4"        294 140.           K.J. Britt                Auburn ILB          6'0"        236 141.           Monty Rice         Georgia OLB        6'1"        235 142.           Kylen Granson   SMU      TE           6'2''        235 143.           Kellen Mond      Texas A&M         QB          6'3"        217 144.           Paddy Fisher      Northwestern   ILB          6'4"        246 145.           Amari Rodgers  Clemson              WR         5'9"        210 146.           Jamien Sherwood            Auburn S              6'2''        220 147.           Max Duffy           Kentucky             P             6'1"        185 148.           Spencer K. Brown             Northern Iowa  OT          6'9''        321 149.           Nico Collins         Michigan              WR         6'4"        222 150.           Tommy Togiai    Ohio State           DL3T      6'2"        300 151.           JaCoby Stevens LSU        S              6'1''        228 152.           Jordan Smith      UAB       EDGE     6'7"        255 153.           Tyler Vaughns   USC        WR         6'2"        190 154.           Jack Anderson   Texas Tech          OG         6'5"        315 155.           Bobby Brown III Texas A&M         DL1T      6'3"        325 156.           Darren Hall          San Diego State CB           6'0"        190 157.           Donovan Stiner Florida  S              6'1"        203 158.           Wyatt Hubert    Kansas State       EDGE     6'3"        270 159.           Thomas Graham Jr.         Oregon CB           5'10"      193 160.           Shemar Jean-Charles      Appalachian State            CB           5'11"      190 161.           Malik Herring     Georgia DL5T      6'3"        283 162.           Daelin Hayes      Notre Dame       EDGE     6'4"        268 163.           Tommy Kraemer              Notre Dame       OG         6'6"        317 164.           Marco Wilson    Florida  CB           6'0"        190 165.           Trill Williams       Syracuse              CB           6'2'         198 166.           Shaka Toney       Penn State          EDGE     6'3"        243 167.           Jimmy Morrissey              Pitt         OC          6'3"        305 168.           Sam Ehlinger      Texas    QB          6'3"        225 169.           Sadarius Hutcherson      South Carolina   OG         6'4"        320 170.           D.J. Daniel           Georgia CB           6'0''        183 171.           Camryn Bynum Cal          CB           6'0''        198 172.           Jermar Jefferson              Oregon State     RBC        5'9"        215 173.           Jose Borregales Miami (FL)           PK           5'10"      205 174.           Alaric Jackson    Iowa      OT          6'6"        315 175.           Brennan Eagles Texas    WR         6'2"        225 176.           Tommy Doyle    Miami (OH)         OT          6'8''        326 177.           Jonathan Marshall           Arkansas              DL1T      6'3"        317 178.           Shane Buechele SMU      QB          6'1"        207 179.           Joshua Kaindoh Florida State       EDGE     6'7"        261 180.           James Hudson   Cincinnati            OT          6'5"        310 181.           Benjamin St-Juste            Minnesota          CB           6'3"        200 182.           Demetric Felton                UCLA     RBC        5'9"        189 183.           Victor Dimukeje Duke     EDGE     6'2"        265 184.           Xavier Kelly         Arkansas              DL3T      6'4"        305 185.           Kary Vincent Jr. LSU        CB           5'10"      182 186.           Noah Gray           Duke     TE           6'4"        240 187.           Adrian Ealy          Oklahoma           OT          6'6"        327 188.           Michal Menet   Penn State          OC          6'4''        305 189.           Pressley Harvin III            Georgia Tech      P             6'0"        255 190.           Amen Ogbongbemiga    Oklahoma State OLB        6'1"        231 191.           T.J. Vasher          Texas Tech          WR         6'6"        210 192.           Josh Imatorbhebhe         Illinois   WR         6'2"        215 193.           Matt Bushman  BYU        TE           6'5"        245 194.           Stevie Scott        Indiana RB           6'2"        231 195.           Brady Christensen           BYU        OT          6'6''        300 196.           Quintin Morris   Bowling Green  TE           6'4"        248 197.           Riley Patterson Memphis             PK           6'0"        190 198.           Malcolm Koonce              Buffalo EDGE     6'3"        250 199.           Robert Rochell   Central Arkansas              CB           6'0''        195 200.           Ben Mason         Michigan              FB           6'3"        254
    • It's kind of like comparing what I did in the bathroom to what you did in the bathroom, but Collins played worse than Painter in 2011, on the same team, with the same staff. I didn't say Painter played better, because that word doesn't seem appropriate here. But I thought Collins was clearly worse, and a bad fit for our offense at the time.   It was always weird to bring Collins in as the starter the way they did. I get signing him. Making him the starter wasn't a good idea. Of course, the alternative was Curtis Painter, so it probably wouldn't have mattered.
    • Round 4 97.   Jacksonville (1-15) - Javonte Williams, RB, North Carolina 98.   NY Jets (2-14) - Chubba Hubbard, RB, Oklahoma State 99.   Atlanta (4-12) - Paris Ford, S, Pittsburgh 100.  New Orleans from Houston (4-12) - Dyami Brown, WR, North Carolina 101.  Cleveland - from Philadelphia (4-11-1) - Hamilcar Rashed, EDGE, Oregon 102.  Cincinnati (4-11-1) - Tutu Atwell, WR, Louisville 103.  Detroit (5-11) 104.  New Orleans from Houston from Carolina (5-11) 105.  Denver (5-11) 106.  Dallas (6-10) 107.  NY Giants (6-10) 108.  San Francisco (6-10) 109.  LA Chargers (7-9) 110.  Minnesota (7-9) 111.  LA Chargers from New England (7-9) 112.  Las Vegas from Miami - from Las Vegas (8-8) 113.  Eagles from Carolina from Houston - from Arizona (8-8) 114.  Miami (10-6) 115.  WFT* (7-9) 116.  Minnesota - from Chicago* (8-8) 117.  Tennessee* (11-5) 118.  Las Vegas from Indianapolis* (11-5) 119.  Pittsburgh* (12-4) 120.  Seattle* (12-4) 121.  Jacksonville - from LA Rams* (10-6) 122.  Baltimore* (11-5) 123.  Chicago from Cleveland* (11-5) 124.  New Orleans* (12-4) 125.  Minnesota - from Buffalo* (13-3) 126.  Green Bay* (13-3) 127.  Kansas City* (14-2) 128.  Tampa Bay* (11-5)     Arizona -> Houston: De'Andre Hopkins Buffalo -> Minnesota: Stefon Diggs Chicago -> Minnesota: 2020 picks LA Rams -> Jacksonville: Jalen Ramsey Philadelphia -> Cleveland: Genard Avery Las Vegas -> Miami: Raekwon McMillan Miami -> Las Vegas: Lynn Bowden Jr. Carolina -> Houston: Tua trade Houston -> Carolina: Tua trade Carolina -> Eagles: Zach Ertz trade Indianapolis -> Las Vegas: Carr trade New England -> LA Chargers: Patrick Surtain Cleveland -> Chicago: Jarvis Landry trade Houston -> New Orleans: Lattimore trade
    • Since the Manning era started...I think so. At least his stats as a starting QB for the Colts would seem to indicate that. But overall, Painter and Tolzien were worse QBs.    
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