Robert Kraft Charged in Prostitution Probe

[pgt_rob]

Video or not, what are the chances Kraft gets any jail time? I bet the NFL will be harsher on him than the law will. I'm going to guess no jail time. The NFL will suspend him 6 games and fine him $600K.

[Gramz]

10 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

Video or not, what are the chances Kraft gets any jail time? I bet the NFL will be harsher on him than the law will. I'm going to guess no jail time. The NFL will suspend him 6 games and fine him $600K.

But he's innocent.

 

/sarcasm.

 

I'm thinking you could be correct.

[pgt_rob]

19 minutes ago, Gramz said:

But he's innocent.

 

/sarcasm.

 

I'm thinking you could be correct.

 

Yeah, I think he could have got away with saying that he's innocent if their wasn't video evidence of him. But since their is video proof, I don't think he can claim being innocent. But I'm sure he will try.

[buccolts]

I'm sure he's sponsoring one of the ladies for citizenship.

[GoPats]

On 3/1/2019 at 1:57 PM, Nadine said:

I did see that and I wondered, since the tapes haven't been released how the NY Post would come to have that information

 

I don't know, but I bet you it's accurate. 

 

 

[GoPats]

On 3/2/2019 at 5:46 PM, WoolMagnet said:

 

Getting off  on a technicality or mistake by law enforcement doesnt make a person innocent.

Well, unless you live in the  greater Boston area that is.

Maybe Hannity can help you guys spin this.

 

 

 

Go back and actually read my posts. I didn't say a single word about getting off on a technicality. All I've said through this entire thread is that soliciting prostitution is not human trafficking.

 

 

 

 

[Nadine]

3 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

I don't know, but I bet you it's accurate. 

 

 

 

I think it's all part of creating plausible deniability for him.  He's a guy with options both with women and for massage therapy. He's also not a stupid guy. He doesn't drive across town for no reason.  It's more likely than not that he knew what was going on.  

 

  I don't doubt he'll be able to get out of it.  Police have a very hard time proving servitude

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article226942349.html

 

Apparently, Flushing NY is the main part of this syndicate. Indeed, there's a New york lawyer defending one of the arrested woman

Quote

When sheriff’s deputies in Martin County, Fla., were interviewing Lixia Zhu, 48, one of the massage parlor employees arrested two weeks ago, it wasn’t long before a New York lawyer arrived and identified himself as her lawyer. The lawyer, Baya Harrison IV, told The New York Times that Ms. Zhu used to work in New York and that her friends had hired him to defend her.

 

I think what law enforcement did in this case was a good move

Quote

The decision by law enforcement in Florida to focus on patrons of the establishments in such a public way rather than the women working there has generated a lot of fear among clients.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/02/us/massage-parlors-human-trafficking.html

 

This is organized crime.  This is corruption.  Yet, I'm seeing a lot of headlines like 'punishing Robert Kraft won't end sex trafficking'

 

It's repulsive to see fans and the media turn a blind eye to this.  It's willful and not good for the country.

 

This past week I watched a show on the global economy.  One episode about corruption talked about this sort of thing happening everywhere. For example Dubai https://qz.com/88278/dubais-towering-skyscrapers-are-built-by-a-horrifically-exploitative-labor-system/

 

Their point in the end was that the more corrupt a country is, the more the inevitability that its economy would flatline.  It's not sustainable.

 

People seeing this sort of thing in the United States and not being concerned are turning a blind eye.  People who pump money into it are really willfully blind.

 

If you don't care about the rise in indentured servitude, perhaps you care about the impact it has on the country?  I would think that most Americans would care about organized crime and corruption. People are proving me wrong. They don't care.

 

In this case, you're just saying 'they can't prove it'

 

Probably not. 

 

I still give props to the way law enforcement tried with this one.  It got attention.  It needs constant attention.  I hope they publicize all men who are busted at these places.

 

Edit: Significant recent increase in sex trafficking in Massachusetts

Quote

 

The National Human Trafficking Hotline, operated by the Washington, D.C., nonprofit Polaris, reports it received 346 calls in reference to Massachusetts during 2017, representing a 25 percent increase from 2016, and nearly 40 percent more than five years prior.

The largest number of calls, which experts say only represents the tip of the iceberg when it comes to human trafficking, was related to sex trafficking at illegal massage and spa businesses. 

 

https://littleton.wickedlocal.com/news/20190303/robert-kraft-case-spotlights-sex-trafficking-in-massachusetts

 

[WoolMagnet]

10 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

 

 

Go back and actually read my posts. I didn't say a single word about getting off on a technicality. All I've said through this entire thread is that soliciting prostitution is not human trafficking.

 

 

 

 

Ok then

carry on as you were

[Nadine]

 

Kraft’s arraignment is scheduled for March 27 at the courthouse in West Palm Beach. https://www.foxnews.com/us/kraft-arrest-shows-how-florida-has-become-nexus-of-sex-trafficking

[Nadine]

The Patriots Stadium sponsor is Gillette.

Gillette recently changed its tagline to, “The Best Man Can Be,” in an effort to represent the brand’s commitment to promoting healthy representations of what masculinity means.

 

There's a petition now to ask Gillette to drop that deal.  

 

https://whdh.com/news/thousands-sign-petition-calling-for-gillette-to-drop-stadium-sponsorship-after-kraft-charges/

[JimJaime]

On 2/26/2019 at 2:25 PM, jvan1973 said:

Anyone with half a brain knows most sex workers in shady establishments have been a victim of sex trafficking. 

Meanwhile the POLICE have said that “Bob Kraft and all others charged are not believed to have any knowledge of the sex trafficking “. But hey everyone with “half” a brain knows most parlors stocked with Asians doing the work especially a nail section. My wife even said she doesn’t understand her massage lady at all.. 

[GoPats]

On 3/4/2019 at 5:51 PM, Nadine said:

 

I think it's all part of creating plausible deniability for him.  He's a guy with options both with women and for massage therapy. He's also not a stupid guy. He doesn't drive across town for no reason.  It's more likely than not that he knew what was going on.  

 

  I don't doubt he'll be able to get out of it.  Police have a very hard time proving servitude

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article226942349.html

 

Apparently, Flushing NY is the main part of this syndicate. Indeed, there's a New york lawyer defending one of the arrested woman

 

I think what law enforcement did in this case was a good move

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/02/us/massage-parlors-human-trafficking.html

 

This is organized crime.  This is corruption.  Yet, I'm seeing a lot of headlines like 'punishing Robert Kraft won't end sex trafficking'

 

It's repulsive to see fans and the media turn a blind eye to this.  It's willful and not good for the country.

 

This past week I watched a show on the global economy.  One episode about corruption talked about this sort of thing happening everywhere. For example Dubai https://qz.com/88278/dubais-towering-skyscrapers-are-built-by-a-horrifically-exploitative-labor-system/

 

Their point in the end was that the more corrupt a country is, the more the inevitability that its economy would flatline.  It's not sustainable.

 

People seeing this sort of thing in the United States and not being concerned are turning a blind eye.  People who pump money into it are really willfully blind.

 

If you don't care about the rise in indentured servitude, perhaps you care about the impact it has on the country?  I would think that most Americans would care about organized crime and corruption. People are proving me wrong. They don't care.

 

In this case, you're just saying 'they can't prove it'

 

Probably not. 

 

I still give props to the way law enforcement tried with this one.  It got attention.  It needs constant attention.  I hope they publicize all men who are busted at these places.

 

Edit: Significant recent increase in sex trafficking in Massachusetts

https://littleton.wickedlocal.com/news/20190303/robert-kraft-case-spotlights-sex-trafficking-in-massachusetts

 

 

I'm sorry that you find it repulsive.

 

I guess it comes down to one question:

 

"Did Robert Kraft knowingly support a human trafficking organization/operation?"

 

If you believe that the answer is "yes," you're making assumptions.

 

If you believe that the answer is "no," you're making assumptions. 

 

But I get it... I'm a Patriots fan, so my opinion (no matter what facts I have to support it) is not as of much value around here as the opinions of other posters. 

 

Enjoy your Indianapolis Colts love-in, then. Just don't come here expecting any reality. 

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

Meanwhile the POLICE have said that “Bob Kraft and all others charged are not believed to have any knowledge of the sex trafficking “. But hey everyone with “half” a brain knows most parlors stocked with Asians doing the work especially a nail section. My wife even said she doesn’t understand her massage lady at all.. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, GoPats said:

 

I'm sorry that you find it repulsive.

 

I guess it comes down to one question:

 

"Did Robert Kraft knowingly support a human trafficking organization/operation?"

 

If you believe that the answer is "yes," you're making assumptions.

 

If you believe that the answer is "no," you're making assumptions. 

 

But I get it... I'm a Patriots fan, so my opinion (no matter what facts I have to support it) is not as of much value around here as the opinions of other posters. 

 

Enjoy your Indianapolis Colts love-in, then. Just don't come here expecting any reality. 

 

 

  why are you here if you have issues with the forum and it’s leaders like @Nadine

     

[JimJaime]

I keep forgetting the high “moral” ground some colt fans put themselves on. Facts don’t matter to them just their moral superiority.. sad a lot here are good peeps but some just have to make this a “well I would” ya ya..  but for those wanting FACTS:

 

1.  FACT: Bob Kraft was arrested on two offenses of soliciting a prostitute. (Which is a much lesser offense then DUI in most states.)

 

2. FACT: The Police have stated they don’t believe any of the people arrested knew about the trafficking.

 

3. FACT: Bob Kraft has hired some heavy hitters to defend him and spending more money than just coping to a plea and paying the fine.

 

4. FACT: Police say they have video tape evidence.

 

outside of these four things everything else is opinion and a lot on here opinion based purely on your dislike of the Patriots and not based on any sort of true facts. 

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, JimJaime said:

I keep forgetting the high “moral” ground some colt fans put themselves on. Facts don’t matter to them just their moral superiority.. sad a lot here are good peeps but some just have to make this a “well I would” ya ya..  but for those wanting FACTS:

 

1.  FACT: Bob Kraft was arrested on two offenses of soliciting a prostitute. (Which is a much lesser offense then DUI in most states.)

 

2. FACT: The Police have stated they don’t believe any of the people arrested knew about the trafficking.

 

3. FACT: Bob Kraft has hired some heavy hitters to defend him and spending more money than just coping to a plea and paying the fine.

 

4. FACT: Police say they have video tape evidence.

 

outside of these four things everything else is opinion and a lot on here opinion based purely on your dislike of the Patriots and not based on any sort of true facts. 

FACT: Bob Kraft visited an illegal sex pallor known for human trafficking.

FACT: Bob Kraft owns perhaps the slimiest and unethical team in football.

FACT: Patriots fans will find any and all excuse to justify/deflect above mentioned acts.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

FACT: Bob Kraft visited an illegal sex pallor known for human trafficking.

FACT: Bob Kraft owns perhaps the slimiest and unethical team in football.

FACT: Patriots fans will find any and all excuse to justify/deflect above mentioned acts.

Fact: Illegal is Illegal 

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Fact: Illegal is Illegal 

Yep, kind of like deflating footballs is still deflating footballs despite the effect? Like I said, I feel ZERO sympathy for Kraft whatsoever.  To me, this is karma smacking him in the face.  Something he's deserved for YEARS.  Granted, he's still innocent until proving guilty. 

[csmopar]

11 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

I keep forgetting the high “moral” ground some colt fans put themselves on. Facts don’t matter to them just their moral superiority.. sad a lot here are good peeps but some just have to make this a “well I would” ya ya..  but for those wanting FACTS:

 

1.  FACT: Bob Kraft was arrested on two offenses of soliciting a prostitute. (Which is a much lesser offense then DUI in most states.)

 

2. FACT: The Police have stated they don’t believe any of the people arrested knew about the trafficking.

 

3. FACT: Bob Kraft has hired some heavy hitters to defend him and spending more money than just coping to a plea and paying the fine.

 

4. FACT: Police say they have video tape evidence.

 

outside of these four things everything else is opinion and a lot on here opinion based purely on your dislike of the Patriots and not based on any sort of true facts. 

One other thing, you don't hire superstar lawyers for petty misdemeanor crimes.  Says right there he's in for a deeper problem and a bigger than this appears on the surface. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, csmopar said:

One other thing, you don't hire superstar lawyers for petty misdemeanor crimes.  Says right there he's in for a deeper problem and a bigger than this appears on the surface. 

You must have missed the episodes of Matlock and Perry Mason where Ben and Perry handled Parking Tickets and other Misdemeanors for people

 

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

You must have missed the episodes of Matlock and Perry Mason where Ben and Perry handled Parking Tickets and other Misdemeanors for people

 

yeah, its been a few decades since I've seen that show lol

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, csmopar said:

yeah, its been a few decades since I've seen that show lol

 

Watch at least one episode of Matlock a day

[Nadine]

1 hour ago, GoPats said:

 

I'm sorry that you find it repulsive.

 

I guess it comes down to one question:

 

"Did Robert Kraft knowingly support a human trafficking organization/operation?"

 

If you believe that the answer is "yes," you're making assumptions.

 

If you believe that the answer is "no," you're making assumptions. 

 

But I get it... I'm a Patriots fan, so my opinion (no matter what facts I have to support it) is not as of much value around here as the opinions of other posters. 

 

Enjoy your Indianapolis Colts love-in, then. Just don't come here expecting any reality. 

 

 

I read an article this week about a young tech entrepreneur worth 10 Million who got addicted to a place like this. Said he's paid more than $20K over the past 6 years.  He said he chose not to think about who these women were and how they came to be there.  Said he knew it likely wasn't good.

 

Quote

I have to admit, it’s easier not to know the real-life circumstances of these women working in the massage parlors. If they’re forced to do this against their will, that’s horrible. But who wants to think about that when you’re just trying to escape for a bit?

 

BUT he became addicted to this 'type' of thing to the point where it's ruined him for real relationships. Said he loved the ego-stoking.

 

I bet that's what happens with men that go to these places.  So, it's sad for them too.

 

You are right, I am making an assumption.  He knew, he didn't care.

 

Probably cannot prove it as it's just very difficult to prove.

 

Edit: It's my understanding that Kraft is denying any wrong doing whatsoever.  Says he did NOT solicit a prostitute.  I would imagine that's pretty easy to prove unless they somehow get the tape thrown out of court.

 

Quote

Jupiter Police Chief Daniel Kerr said he was shocked to learn that Kraft, who is worth $6 billion, was paying for sex inside a shopping-center massage parlor, the Orchids of Asia Day Spa. "We are as equally stunned as everyone else," Kerr said.

https://mynews4.com/news/nation-world/patriots-owner-kraft-denies-charges-of-soliciting-prostitute

[pgt_rob]

30 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I read an article this week about a young tech entrepreneur who got addicted to a place like this.  He said he chose not to think about who these women were and how they came to be there.  Said he knew it likely wasn't good.

 

BUT he became addicted to this 'type' of thing to the point where it's ruined him for real relationships.

 

I bet that's what happens with men that go to these places.  So, it's sad for them too.

 

You are right, I am making an assumption.  He knew, he didn't care.

 

Probably cannot prove it as it's just very difficult to prove.

 

Edit: It's my understanding that Kraft is denying any wrong doing whatsoever.  Says he did NOT solicit a prostitute.  I would imagine that's pretty easy to prove unless they somehow get the tape thrown out of court.

 

https://mynews4.com/news/nation-world/patriots-owner-kraft-denies-charges-of-soliciting-prostitute

 

Someone like Kraft will probably give the judge a few million bucks to "dispose" of the tapes and say that the evidence was thrown out. I don't have a doubt in my mind that the law won't do anything to him because of who he is and how much money he has.

[Nadine]

11 hours ago, pgt_rob said:

 

Someone like Kraft will probably give the judge a few million bucks to "dispose" of the tapes and say that the evidence was thrown out. I don't have a doubt in my mind that the law won't do anything to him because of who he is and how much money he has.

The law has a way of bending to money as in the Jeffery Epstein case.  But I think he would need the prosecuting attorneys to be complicit and I don't think these prosecutors will do that. Fingers crossed anyway.

 

There are quite a few wealthy types that got caught up in this.

[Nadine]

2 hours ago, JimJaime said:

I keep forgetting the high “moral” ground some colt fans put themselves on

It's not a moral high ground.

For me it is outrage that this is happening 

It's not good for the women

It's not good for the country

And places like this are not good for relationships between men and women.  Same sort of demeaning effect that pornography has.

 

There's just nothing good about it except from the perspective of the operators who are raking in tax free dollars......same as drug dealers.

 

I would be happy to see no more of these 'massage parlors' in any of our communities.  They're toxic

[Gramz]

3 hours ago, JimJaime said:

I keep forgetting the high “moral” ground some colt fans put themselves on.

I like our high moral ground. 

 

Thanks for noticing. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Gramz said:

I like our high moral ground. 

 

Thanks for noticing. 

For me It is being raised a Baptist by teachers

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, JimJaime said:

I keep forgetting the high “moral” ground some colt fans put themselves on.

 

 

I guess that is better than the lack of morals ground that Kraft is standing on.

[Gramz]

5 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

I'm sorry that you find it repulsive.

 

But I get it... I'm a Patriots fan, so my opinion (no matter what facts I have to support it) is not as of much value around here as the opinions of other posters. 

 

Enjoy your Indianapolis Colts love-in, then. Just don't come here expecting any reality. 

 

 

Really.......???

 

Nadine was sharing articles that have been published on this.   How is this a Colts love-in with no reality?

 

The reality is ...... Sex trafficking is a very serious thing. And it is repulsive.

 

I think he knew exactly what was going on there, if not the first time, certainly on his return trip.  The writing  is kinda on the wall, and on the video.

 

This doesn't look good for him.  However, He'll probably get a slap on the wrist with the help from His highly paid Attorney.

 

 

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

I'm sorry that you find it repulsive.

Enjoy your Indianapolis Colts love-in, then. Just don't come here expecting any reality. 

Don't come in here expecting any reality? 

I think it is you that is doing the coming in.

I am not in the Patriots forum trying to explain to the Patriot fans that what Kraft did was immoral and wrong. I haven't even entered a Patriots forum at all. I don't care to.

It is you that is coming in a Colts forum making excuses and throwing legal jargon around trying to minimize what Kraft did.

[JPFolks]

On 2/22/2019 at 11:59 AM, Virtuoso80 said:

https://www.theindychannel.com/news/national/new-england-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-charged-as-a-john-in-human-trafficking-prostitution-investigation

I would simply change your title to the more accurate "Human Trafficking Probe" because without people disgusting enough to participate willingly in his actions, there wouldn't be a world wide Sex Trafficking problem to start with.   He knew what was up.  Anyone with life experience who has walked by one of those places know what is up there.  It's nothing "good" or "wholesome" to have a multi-billionaire sneaking off to the working class side of town to use and abuse the people they find there.  Apologists for him or people trying to mitigate his blame for his actions (legally) and his participation (reputation-ally) and shilling.  Adults understand what was up and he's an adult.  It's on film.  If it went "farther" than he expected it would it would go, he wouldn't have gone back right? And certainly he would have demanded it to STOP before it went anywhere.  He's guilty and will get off just like Billionaires always do.  But we all know.  And if people stop giving him a pass for what it leads to, human sex trafficking, then he will at least get a bit more justice than his kind usually ever gets.  He'll be know as being an important part of the problem and as someone who took advantage of a helpless woman in desperate circumstances.  That deserves a lifetime ban more than a player who smokes too much weed too many times.  

[NFLfan]

https://sports.yahoo.com/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-gets-court-date-and-must-appear-161905332.html
"Patriots owner Robert Kraft gets court date for solicitation charges — and must appear..."

 

Let's see what happens. Since it is a misdemeanor, it is likely that he will get a slap on the wrist. 

[Gramz]

9 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-gets-court-date-and-must-appear-161905332.html
"Patriots owner Robert Kraft gets court date for solicitation charges — and must appear..."

 

Let's see what happens. Since it is a misdemeanor, it is likely that he will get a slap on the wrist. 

Maybe our legal team on here can shed more light, but I believe the "ONLY"  way he legally gets out of appearing, would be to plea bargain and settle.   Plea bargain, meaning pleads guilty to a charge.    It is my understanding if he continues a plea of  "not guilty"  then he will have to appear before the judge.       Any of our lawyers on here care to chime in...??

[Gramz]

Once again,   if they have him on video two days in a row,   for the "same services"  then at the very least they have at least  one intentional solicitation visit.   Right..??     

 

I mean let's give him the benefit of the doubt here  (cough cough)   that he did not know on his first visit,    but then returns the 2nd day for the same services.      It doesn't take much intelligence to figure this out.   Just sayin'

[Nadine]

2 hours ago, Gramz said:

Maybe our legal team on here can shed more light, but I believe the "ONLY"  way he legally gets out of appearing, would be to plea bargain and settle.   Plea bargain, meaning pleads guilty to a charge.    It is my understanding if he continues a plea of  "not guilty"  then he will have to appear before the judge.       Any of our lawyers on here care to chime in...??

His lawyers say he does not have to be there https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/03/07/robert-kraft-ordered-to-appear-at-florida-arraignment/

 

 

[Gramz]

4 minutes ago, Nadine said:

His lawyers say he does not have to be there https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/03/07/robert-kraft-ordered-to-appear-at-florida-arraignment/

 

 

So his Attorney will appear at the arraignment  and enter his plea of not guilty.  

 

The judge, as I understand it, will be the judge and jury.   

 

 

[Nadine]

22 minutes ago, Gramz said:

So his Attorney will appear at the arraignment  and enter his plea of not guilty.  

 

The judge, as I understand it, will be the judge and jury.   

 

 

I can see that you don't need a jury.  I mean there's video tape.  No need for anyone else to see it. Judge will know if he's guilty.  

[Gramz]

1 minute ago, Nadine said:

I can see that you don't need a jury.  I mean there's video tape.  No need for anyone else to see it. Judge will know if he's guilty.  

Yes.  That is what I was saying.   There is no need for jury.   Judge will be jury.  Video will show guilt or innocence.    If guilty,   Judge will hand down appropriate sentence according to the law, if he's being honest.

[Nadine]

Kraft brings 3 Big Name lawyers to fight these charges https://abovethelaw.com/2019/03/robert-kraft-quinn-emanuel/