Robert Kraft Charged in Prostitution Probe

[Gramz]

6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I have a different point of view when it comes to those hookers on Washington St and or anywhere else they work.

I have a long time friend who's daughter was a drug addict and worked Washington St and E. 10th St.  They found her beaten to death and her body was burned beyond recognition. She was found in a garage right off E. New York St. and Sherman Dr. During the autopsy they found out she was with child. They have never solved the case so her murderer is out there somewhere.

I see first hand at the pain and misery things like this can cause.

How heart wrenching!  I am so sorry.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

7 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

They found her beaten to death and her body was burned beyond recognition. She was found in a garage right off E. New York St. and Sherman Dr. During the autopsy they found out she was with child.

 

This $#!+ makes my heart hurt. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

This $#!+ makes my heart hurt. 

Yeah there are some bad neighborhoods in Indy and hookers and drugs are around unfortunately.

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, Gramz said:

How heart wrenching!  I am so sorry.

Thank you. I knew this young lady since she was a child. Yes, my heart hurts whenever stuff like this comes up.  There are no words for it.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Thank you. I knew this young lady since she was a child. Yes, my heart hurts whenever stuff like this comes up.  There are no words for it.

Sorry about your loss CC, very sad stuff! 

[Narcosys]

15 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

You basically made my point for me here by taking "solicitation" and turning it into "human trafficking." 

 

Also, Irsay's offense wasn't using drugs, it was operating a vehicle while he was severely impaired. 

 

Although I am apparently "willfully ignorant" in your own words... I'm simply trying to make a point in a civil manner. No, it is not "disingenuous" to assume that Kraft did not know the status of any of the women working at this spa. In fact, it's irresponsible to assume anything. 

 

Do you really think a guy like Kraft would risk his fortune, status, and - most importantly -- his reputation by knowingly soliciting sex slaves? I don't. 

 

 

Nobody is happy about it, or blowing it off. It's an embarrassment to the organization. My view on Kraft is certainly forever changed. 

 

The only thing I've taken exception to is how many people here have stretched the actual charges Kraft faces into something much worse. What if, after Irsay's arrest, someone had said, "Well he was found with almost $30K in cash, so he MUST be selling drugs to school children!" You guys would be pretty upset with something like that. 

 

If evidence comes to light that he knew these girls were victims of human trafficking then I'll be the first to further condemn his actions. But it's not fair to take a misdemeanor and turn it into a completely reprehensible act like many have done.  

 

 

For the love of all that is holy, NO VIDEO! OMG, lol... I concur Gramz. No one needs to see that! 

 

 

His crime is solicitation, but all solicitation abet human trafficking. It is illegal to pay for sex for that reason.

 

Just like buying illegal drugs abet its trafficking. 

 

Sorry, but you just don't do it.

 

So no rich person has ever risked their fortunes doing illegal stuff? Come on now, be the smart person you say you are and not the willfully ignorant one you're portraying. 

 

He didn't have to be explicitly told they are sex slaves, it comes with the territory of solicitation and prostitution and even more so with Asians engaged in this.

 

Do you have to be explicitly told as an adult that boiling water is hot? No because you know the processes behind it that cause water to boil. 

 

He knew what he was doing is illegal, you simply have to think it through to its logical conclusion. Solicitation and prostitution is the result of human trafficking.

[Narcosys]

15 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

There are 58.000 children abducted a year for sexual motives right here in America.

This problem is not privy to under developed countries.

No ya that's totally true, but it's more prevalent in under developed countries, explicitly for human/sex trafficking, not just sexual motives which could include rape and molestation without the intent of selling them.

[GoPats]

23 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Actually there were a few Pats fans on this forum and other forums that said that accused Irsay of being a dealer just because he had that much cash.

 

And yes as I recall some people got pretty upset about it.

 

 

I can only speak for myself but I didn't feel that way at the time. I figured, for a guy like Irsay, having $30K on you is the equivalent to me carrying $50 around in my wallet. 

 

I am also sympathetic to what he went through. I had a problem of my own with painkillers following an injury and surgery about 18 years ago. I still don't take Percocet or Vicodin to this day... the strongest drug I'll put in my body is ibuprofen. 

 

 

22 hours ago, Flash7 said:

If there is no solicitation then there is no need for human trafficking.

 

Since he solicited sex, he is complicit in creating a demand for something as horrible as human trafficking.

 

7 hours ago, Narcosys said:

His crime is solicitation, but all solicitation abet human trafficking. It is illegal to pay for sex for that reason.

 

Just like buying illegal drugs abet its trafficking. 

 

Sorry, but you just don't do it.

 

So no rich person has ever risked their fortunes doing illegal stuff? Come on now, be the smart person you say you are and not the willfully ignorant one you're portraying. 

 

He didn't have to be explicitly told they are sex slaves, it comes with the territory of solicitation and prostitution and even more so with Asians engaged in this.

 

Do you have to be explicitly told as an adult that boiling water is hot? No because you know the processes behind it that cause water to boil. 

 

He knew what he was doing is illegal, you simply have to think it through to its logical conclusion. Solicitation and prostitution is the result of human trafficking.

 

@Flash7 and @Narcosys...

 

I could agree with you guys on this, but then we'd all be wrong. 

 

Seriously though, and with all due respect...

 

You guys can't really and truly believe this. Basically you're saying that every prostitute on the planet is a trafficked sex slave. Though I can't speak from experience, I would guess that is not accurate. Seems to me that plenty of them do what they do of their own free will and accord. 

 

If Kraft wanted to avoid any chance of this story coming out, all he had to do was go to Nevada instead of Florida. Which is why I think it's fair to surmise that he was oblivious to the status of the women he visited at the spa. 

 

If you want to look at it from a different, perhaps more objective point-of-view... I don't know how you could argue against this point: 

 

Why is soliciting a misdemeanor in most states, while any sort of human trafficking crimes would be felonies? It's pretty simple. Because one of those things, though subject to people's individual moral judgement, is far less of an offense and in and of itself doesn't hurt anyone else. The other is far more reprehensible and just downright EVIL.  

 

I'm not trying to minimize what he did. As I already stated, I've lost respect for the man. But let's not make him out to be some horrible monster because you guys don't like his football team. That's not fair at all. 

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

The Bottom Line is

 

 

   Illegal is Illegal 

[Flash7]

1 hour ago, GoPats said:

 

I can only speak for myself but I didn't feel that way at the time. I figured, for a guy like Irsay, having $30K on you is the equivalent to me carrying $50 around in my wallet. 

 

I am also sympathetic to what he went through. I had a problem of my own with painkillers following an injury and surgery about 18 years ago. I still don't take Percocet or Vicodin to this day... the strongest drug I'll put in my body is ibuprofen. 

 

 

 

 

@Flash7 and @Narcosys...

 

I could agree with you guys on this, but then we'd all be wrong. 

 

Seriously though, and with all due respect...

 

You guys can't really and truly believe this. 1) Basically you're saying that every prostitute on the planet is a trafficked sex slave. Though I can't speak from experience, I would guess that is not accurate. Seems to me that plenty of them do what they do of their own free will and accord. 

 

If Kraft wanted to avoid any chance of this story coming out, all he had to do was go to Nevada instead of Florida. 2) Which is why I think it's fair to surmise that he was oblivious to the status of the women he visited at the spa. 

 

If you want to look at it from a different, perhaps more objective point-of-view... I don't know how you could argue against this point: 

 

3) Why is soliciting a misdemeanor in most states, while any sort of human trafficking crimes would be felonies? It's pretty simple. Because one of those things, though subject to people's individual moral judgement, is far less of an offense and in and of itself doesn't hurt anyone else. The other is far more reprehensible and just downright EVIL.  

 

I'm not trying to minimize what he did. As I already stated, I've lost respect for the man. 4)But let's not make him out to be some horrible monster because you guys don't like his football team. That's not fair at all. 

 

 

Great reply @GoPats

 

I've numbered and highlighted a few of the points that you have brought up and will number my responses accordingly.

 

1) This is a bit of a straw man argument. I am not saying that every prostitute on the planet is a trafficked sex slave, rather, I am simply stating that human trafficking is a very real problem and it's abetted by solicitation.

 

2) Kraft may have been oblivious to the state of those women specifically, however, I'm sure that he knew that it was illegal to solicit sex, and further, that he was partaking in something that in a broad sense is a real problem, although hardly talked about due to the nature of the subject matter.

 

3) I'm not equating the two. I think that solicitation is not as severe as human trafficking, and the law reflects this. I do, however, hold a personal opinion that solicitation leads to the larger problem of human trafficking. Without it, the demand for sex slaves would not exist.

 

4) I am not making him out to be a horrible monster. I think he displayed poor judgement. As I stated in response #3, I think that solicitation is not as sever as the actual act of human trafficking. 

[GoPats]

3 hours ago, Flash7 said:

Great reply @GoPats

 

I've numbered and highlighted a few of the points that you have brought up and will number my responses accordingly.

 

1) This is a bit of a straw man argument. I am not saying that every prostitute on the planet is a trafficked sex slave, rather, I am simply stating that human trafficking is a very real problem and it's abetted by solicitation.

 

2) Kraft may have been oblivious to the state of those women specifically, however, I'm sure that he knew that it was illegal to solicit sex, and further, that he was partaking in something that in a broad sense is a real problem, although hardly talked about due to the nature of the subject matter.

 

3) I'm not equating the two. I think that solicitation is not as severe as human trafficking, and the law reflects this. I do, however, hold a personal opinion that solicitation leads to the larger problem of human trafficking. Without it, the demand for sex slaves would not exist.

 

4) I am not making him out to be a horrible monster. I think he displayed poor judgement. As I stated in response #3, I think that solicitation is not as sever as the actual act of human trafficking. 

 

All good points... thanks man. I think we're far closer to agreeing on most of this than we are on disagreeing. Sometimes its just a matter of talking it through! 

 

I won't lie, it can sometimes be very frustrating to be a lifelong fan of the Patriots, despite their success on the field. Whether you're a player, coach, or game-day personnel, you've got to know that the spotlight is always on you and that any slip-up will be magnified. It infuriates me when they do stupid stuff like this. 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

10 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

I can only speak for myself but I didn't feel that way at the time. I figured, for a guy like Irsay, having $30K on you is the equivalent to me carrying $50 around in my wallet. 

 

I am also sympathetic to what he went through. I had a problem of my own with painkillers following an injury and surgery about 18 years ago. I still don't take Percocet or Vicodin to this day... the strongest drug I'll put in my body is ibuprofen. 

 

 

 

 

@Flash7 and @Narcosys...

 

I could agree with you guys on this, but then we'd all be wrong. 

 

Seriously though, and with all due respect...

 

You guys can't really and truly believe this. Basically you're saying that every prostitute on the planet is a trafficked sex slave. Though I can't speak from experience, I would guess that is not accurate. Seems to me that plenty of them do what they do of their own free will and accord. 

 

If Kraft wanted to avoid any chance of this story coming out, all he had to do was go to Nevada instead of Florida. Which is why I think it's fair to surmise that he was oblivious to the status of the women he visited at the spa. 

 

If you want to look at it from a different, perhaps more objective point-of-view... I don't know how you could argue against this point: 

 

Why is soliciting a misdemeanor in most states, while any sort of human trafficking crimes would be felonies? It's pretty simple. Because one of those things, though subject to people's individual moral judgement, is far less of an offense and in and of itself doesn't hurt anyone else. The other is far more reprehensible and just downright EVIL.  

 

I'm not trying to minimize what he did. As I already stated, I've lost respect for the man. But let's not make him out to be some horrible monster because you guys don't like his football team. That's not fair at all. 

 

 

Even if u take the sex trafficking out of this story, prostitution is not glamorous the way it was  portrayed in the movie Pretty Women.  A large percentage of prostitutes  have been sexually abused as minors . So, Kraft in essence  was perpetuating the cycle of abuse. He's a smart man, he knows it.  He's a dirty old man and I would not let my kids 100 feet around this man.  I also bet a lot of the Patriot wives feel this way.  He took advantage of  vulnerable women.  He's a disgusting man.

[Narcosys]

20 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

 

You guys can't really and truly believe this. Basically you're saying that every prostitute on the planet is a trafficked sex slave. Though I can't speak from experience, I would guess that is not accurate. Seems to me that plenty of them do what they do of their own free will and accord. 

 

That is probably the saddest and most shameful thing I have read in a long time.

 

It is not anywhere near the majority of them. Most don't realize what they're getting into and once in, they are stuck.  Some may enter willingly, but then become trafficked. Of those that enter willingly they are almost forced due to poverty, inability to get jobs, and home life situation. Few, if any, go into it thinking it's the career they want for their lives.

[Nadine]

3 hours ago, Narcosys said:

Of those that enter willingly they are almost forced due to poverty, inability to get jobs, and home life situation. Few, if any, go into it thinking it's the career they want for their lives.

Drug abuse is fueling this too

[GoPats]

3 hours ago, Narcosys said:

 

That is probably the saddest and most shameful thing I have read in a long time.

 

It is not anywhere near the majority of them. Most don't realize what they're getting into and once in, they are stuck.  Some may enter willingly, but then become trafficked. Of those that enter willingly they are almost forced due to poverty, inability to get jobs, and home life situation. Few, if any, go into it thinking it's the career they want for their lives.

 

Then you don't read much. But don't let that stop you from being all Judge-y McJudge-rton. 

 

If you can put a lid on the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou stuff for about a minute, and realize that we're having more of a legal discussion than a discussion about morals and values, maybe this would be worthwhile. 

 

You're also stating options as fact. "It's not anywhere near the majority of them," you said. Really? You KNOW that? If you do, please share how, or a source, or whatever. 

 

Did you miss this yesterday? 

 

"But it appears Kraft was caught on camera getting services from two women who are not victims of human trafficking: the 45-year-old manager of the spa, Lei Wang, and 58-year-old spa employee Shen Mingbi, also believed to be an operator of the business — both licensed masseuses and Florida residents."

 

https://nypost.com/2019/02/28/how-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-could-get-off-in-prostitution-case/

 

 

12 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Even if u take the sex trafficking out of this story, prostitution is not glamorous the way it was  portrayed in the movie Pretty Women.  A large percentage of prostitutes  have been sexually abused as minors . So, Kraft in essence  was perpetuating the cycle of abuse. He's a smart man, he knows it.  He's a dirty old man and I would not let my kids 100 feet around this man.  I also bet a lot of the Patriot wives feel this way.  He took advantage of  vulnerable women.  He's a disgusting man.

 

I've said it at least twice, and I don't know how else to say it, so I'll just repeat it I guess? 

 

If Kraft is guilty of the charges he's facing, then I've lost a lot of respect that I had for the man. I don't believe in condemning human beings for making mistakes like this one though. He didn't kill anyone, he didn't hurt anyone, he didn't steal from anyone. He took part in an illegal activity that also carries a heavy moral burden for a lot of people. This is a guy who has been very generous with a lot of charities and overall has done far more good than bad in this world.

 

I have to wonder if you guys would even care if this was, say, the owner of the Browns, or Arthur Blank, or basically any other team! 

 

 

 

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, GoPats said:

 

Then you don't read much. But don't let that stop you from being all Judge-y McJudge-rton. 

 

If you can put a lid on the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou stuff for about a minute, and realize that we're having more of a legal discussion than a discussion about morals and values, maybe this would be worthwhile. 

 

You're also stating options as fact. "It's not anywhere near the majority of them," you said. Really? You KNOW that? If you do, please share how, or a source, or whatever. 

 

Did you miss this yesterday? 

 

"But it appears Kraft was caught on camera getting services from two women who are not victims of human trafficking: the 45-year-old manager of the spa, Lei Wang, and 58-year-old spa employee Shen Mingbi, also believed to be an operator of the business — both licensed masseuses and Florida residents."

 

https://nypost.com/2019/02/28/how-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-could-get-off-in-prostitution-case/

 

 

 

I've said it at least twice, and I don't know how else to say it, so I'll just repeat it I guess? 

 

If Kraft is guilty of the charges he's facing, then I've lost a lot of respect that I had for the man. I don't believe in condemning human beings for making mistakes like this one though. He didn't kill anyone, he didn't hurt anyone, he didn't steal from anyone. He took part in an illegal activity that also carries a heavy moral burden for a lot of people. This is a guy who has been very generous with a lot of charities and overall has done far more good than bad in this world.

 

I have to wonder if you guys would even care if this was, say, the owner of the Browns, or Arthur Blank, or basically any other team! 

 

 

 

 

 

Stop

Illegal is Illegal

 

and

 

yes

 

 

 

[Breeze]

Not sure how yet, but pretty sure Kraft walks on this one.  I’m thinking a couple prostitutes deny ever having met him, and suddenly becoming filthy rich, a parlor owner also denying he was there, and suddenly becoming filthy rich, and an old man that looks like Kraft coming forward and claiming it was him on camera....and suddenly becoming filthy rich.

[jvan1973]

35 minutes ago, Breeze said:

Not sure how yet, but pretty sure Kraft walks on this one.  I’m thinking a couple prostitutes deny ever having met him, and suddenly becoming filthy rich, a parlor owner also denying he was there, and suddenly becoming filthy rich, and an old man that looks like Kraft coming forward and claiming it was him on camera....and suddenly becoming filthy rich.

They have it on video

[Gramz]

38 minutes ago, Breeze said:

Not sure how yet, but pretty sure Kraft walks on this one.  I’m thinking a couple prostitutes deny ever having met him, and suddenly becoming filthy rich, a parlor owner also denying he was there, and suddenly becoming filthy rich, and an old man that looks like Kraft coming forward and claiming it was him on camera....and suddenly becoming filthy rich.

Wrong. They have it on video. Have you forgotten?  Kind of hard to deny.

[PrincetonTiger]

No matter what happens legally it will haunt the Franchise for years to come

   I can see it now it in Buffalo, NY, Miami et. al

[Breeze]

12 minutes ago, Gramz said:

Wrong. They have it on video. Have you forgotten?  Kind of hard to deny.

Hence the tongue in cheek comment about the old Kraft lookalike coming forward and claiming it was him on the video.  And being paid handsomely.

[Gramz]

1 minute ago, Breeze said:

Hence the tongue in cheek comment about the old Kraft lookalike coming forward and claiming it was him on the video.  And being paid handsomely.

Whatever.  I doubt he skates on this one.

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, Breeze said:

Hence the tongue in cheek comment about the old Kraft lookalike coming forward and claiming it was him on the video.  And being paid handsomely.

They did an ID check on him outside the place

[Gramz]

8 minutes ago, Breeze said:

Hence the tongue in cheek comment about the old Kraft lookalike coming forward and claiming it was him on the video.  And being paid handsomely.

Just so I understand... you think an elderly gentleman would cover for Kraft, and face a year in jail?  Takes some kinda crazy 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Gramz said:

Just so I understand... you think an elderly gentleman woykd cover for Kraft, and face a year in jail?  Takes some kinda crazy 

Not to mention that he would more than likely be a Dolphin fan

[Gramz]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

They did an ID check on him outside the place

 maybe the imposter also had a fake i.d. and a limo driver. 

[Nadine]

2 hours ago, GoPats said:

Did you miss this yesterday? 

I did see that and I wondered, since the tapes haven't been released how the NY Post would come to have that information

[PrincetonTiger]

24 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I did see that and I wondered, since the tapes haven't been released how the NY Post would come to have that information

NY Post is enough said

[Breeze]

1 hour ago, Gramz said:

Just so I understand... you think an elderly gentleman would cover for Kraft, and face a year in jail?  Takes some kinda crazy 

Tongue in cheek guys.  Obviously a failed effort on my part.

[buccolts]

2 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

No matter what happens legally it will haunt the Franchise for years to come

   I can see it now it in Buffalo, NY, Miami et. al

 

I close my eyes and can picture certain inflatables in the end zone during Gostkowsky FG attempts.

[Nadine]

2 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

NY Post is enough said

Yeah the NYPost owner is a friend of his I believe. At least they appear to be so

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Robert+Kraft/Rupert+Murdoch/Philadelphia+Eagles+v+New+England+Patriots/MFaYPMM-R2Z

 

https://www.mediaite.com/online/ex-ny-post-writer-rupert-murdoch-killed-story-on-patriots-owner-robert-krafts-gambling-ties/

 

Also, none of the other major media outlets carried that particular story. That's why I didn't mention it here.  Seems like PR

[Narcosys]

7 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

Then you don't read much. But don't let that stop you from being all Judge-y McJudge-rton. 

 

If you can put a lid on the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou stuff for about a minute, and realize that we're having more of a legal discussion than a discussion about morals and values, maybe this would be worthwhile. 

 

You're also stating options as fact. "It's not anywhere near the majority of them," you said. Really? You KNOW that? If you do, please share how, or a source, or whatever. 

 

Did you miss this yesterday? 

 

"But it appears Kraft was caught on camera getting services from two women who are not victims of human trafficking: the 45-year-old manager of the spa, Lei Wang, and 58-year-old spa employee Shen Mingbi, also believed to be an operator of the business — both licensed masseuses and Florida residents."

 

https://nypost.com/2019/02/28/how-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-could-get-off-in-prostitution-case/

 

 

 

I've said it at least twice, and I don't know how else to say it, so I'll just repeat it I guess? 

 

If Kraft is guilty of the charges he's facing, then I've lost a lot of respect that I had for the man. I don't believe in condemning human beings for making mistakes like this one though. He didn't kill anyone, he didn't hurt anyone, he didn't steal from anyone. He took part in an illegal activity that also carries a heavy moral burden for a lot of people. This is a guy who has been very generous with a lot of charities and overall has done far more good than bad in this world.

 

I have to wonder if you guys would even care if this was, say, the owner of the Browns, or Arthur Blank, or basically any other team! 

 

 

 

 

 

https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/38790.htm

 

I read enough, but don't expect it from people here. 

 

Legally, he paid for sex and could get off on technicality

[PrincetonTiger]

4 hours ago, Nadine said:

Yeah the NYPost owner is a friend of his I believe. At least they appear to be so

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Robert+Kraft/Rupert+Murdoch/Philadelphia+Eagles+v+New+England+Patriots/MFaYPMM-R2Z

 

https://www.mediaite.com/online/ex-ny-post-writer-rupert-murdoch-killed-story-on-patriots-owner-robert-krafts-gambling-ties/

 

Also, none of the other major media outlets carried that particular story. That's why I didn't mention it here.  Seems like PR

Yes the owner runs in the same circles

[WoolMagnet]

On 2/25/2019 at 9:30 PM, PrincetonTiger said:

They often talk to the lawyers/representatives and give the charged a summons unless they propose some kind of flight risk

 I Bet in that video he's totally naked except for that gawdy dog bone-shaped championship necklace and his 6 rings.

  I wont say where he was wearing the rings, but inside sources say he was actually able to only wear 1 ring because he "ran out of real estate."

   Something he and a "powerful close friend" have in common.

 

[WoolMagnet]

On 3/1/2019 at 11:35 AM, GoPats said:

 

Then you don't read much. But don't let that stop you from being all Judge-y McJudge-rton. 

 

If you can put a lid on the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou stuff for about a minute, and realize that we're having more of a legal discussion than a discussion about morals and values, maybe this would be worthwhile. 

 

You're also stating options as fact. "It's not anywhere near the majority of them," you said. Really? You KNOW that? If you do, please share how, or a source, or whatever. 

 

Did you miss this yesterday? 

 

"But it appears Kraft was caught on camera getting services from two women who are not victims of human trafficking: the 45-year-old manager of the spa, Lei Wang, and 58-year-old spa employee Shen Mingbi, also believed to be an operator of the business — both licensed masseuses and Florida residents."

 

https://nypost.com/2019/02/28/how-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-could-get-off-in-prostitution-case/

 

 

 

I've said it at least twice, and I don't know how else to say it, so I'll just repeat it I guess? 

 

If Kraft is guilty of the charges he's facing, then I've lost a lot of respect that I had for the man. I don't believe in condemning human beings for making mistakes like this one though. He didn't kill anyone, he didn't hurt anyone, he didn't steal from anyone. He took part in an illegal activity that also carries a heavy moral burden for a lot of people. This is a guy who has been very generous with a lot of charities and overall has done far more good than bad in this world.

 

I have to wonder if you guys would even care if this was, say, the owner of the Browns, or Arthur Blank, or basically any other team! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Getting off on a technicality or mistake by law enforcement doesnt make a person innocent.

Well, unless you live in the  greater Boston area that is.

Maybe Hannity can help you guys spin this.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Nadine
personal shot and inappropriate

[Gramz]

Just saw on the news tonight...

 

A defense Attorney saying that some men would go there for a massage and get "other services" they "neither asked for or paid for"   

 

So I ask you...... when the same person returns the next day or days,  and receives the same "unsolicited"  services, how exactly does that excuse  work?.

 

  I'm calling b.s.

 

Meanwhile He pleads not guilty to any solicitation.

[crazycolt1]

34 minutes ago, Gramz said:

Just saw on the news tonight...

 

A defense Attorney saying that some men would go there for a massage and get "other services" they "neither asked for or paid for"   

 

So returning the next day and receiving the same service, how does that work?. That excuse would fly out the window, No?  I'm calling b.s.

 

He pleads not guilty.

So these :other services" were force on him?  Oh, the horror of having to give money too?

[Gramz]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So these :other services" were force on him?  Oh, the horror of having to give money too?

Apparently yes, he is the victim here.

 

 

Still calling b.s.

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, Gramz said:

A defense Attorney saying that some men would go there for a massage and get "other services" they "neither asked for or paid for"   

 

Goodness gracious. This is almost as absurd as the affluenza defense. 

 

I've been reading about these so called parlors. They are all over. The people who are doing the trafficking rarely face punishment.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 hours ago, Gramz said:

Just saw on the news tonight...

 

A defense Attorney saying that some men would go there for a massage and get "other services" they "neither asked for or paid for"   

 

So I ask you...... when the same person returns the next day or days,  and receives the same "unsolicited"  services, how exactly does that excuse  work?.

 

  I'm calling b.s.

 

Meanwhile He pleads not guilty to any solicitation.

I am sure they traveled there just for massages