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Zak Keefer - Quenton Nelson Mindset

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47 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Could be, but it probably has more to do with the talent and ability of the oline and less to do with attitude.

 

I've followed Mudd's career for years and I've never heard him talk about wanting or liking players that are, to use some of the words in this thread, nasty.

I don’t know what Howard you were following then. Listen to Jeff Saturday. I think for a fact he wants guys to give their all. Saturday wasn’t even the most physical player. He at least tried to finish blocks. Play the game with an “nasty” attitude. 

 

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

What makes you think Mudd likes it?  All he said was, "pretty infectious".  I've been thinking about his response.  And it's impossible to tell what he thinks about it from that statement.  People often use infectious as a negative since it is closely associated with infection.  But on the other hand, if we wants people to catch that attitude then he would say infectious.  Great answer by him.

Having known Howard personally for much of his Colt's Tenure, and a little beyond, I feel I'm safe saying he is plenty fond of Nelson having actions like that.... 

 

again, this is purely personal opinion, and obviously I am biased toward Coach Mudd, but I am pretty sure he got a kick out of that clip, if it did indeed happen. 

 

Also, where is this story of Q slamming papers on a media guys desk?  Not saying it didn't happen, but I can't seem to find it, if anyone can help me with a link, that'd be appreciated!

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9 minutes ago, a06cc said:

I don’t know what Howard you were following then. Listen to Jeff Saturday. I think for a fact he wants guys to give their all. Saturday wasn’t even the most physical player. He at least tried to finish blocks. Play the game with an “nasty” attitude. 

 

Dunno if the man ever said such in the media, but he most definitely preferred "Nasty" OL who played with a mean streak.... not unnecessary roughness type of nasty, but definitely play through the whistle, try to grind your opponent into dust nasty...  

 

This is just a guess, but the type of guys he was most fond of coaching, probably cared little for niceties on the playing field...  It just kind of goes with the personality type of that kind of player...

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3 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Are you saying Andrew Luck is soft?

I will.

This whole country has gotten soft.  But i wont go into that.

if i'm a defender., and i sack a QB and he says "nice hit", subconsciously (at the very least) , I cant help but think he's "softer" than say a Brady or Manning who throws an F bomb toward me.  Is it fact?  Not necessarily, but in sports, what you think you can do is as important as what you can actually do.

Doesnt anyone study psychology anymore?

 

I,for one, have never been thrilled with Luck's reactions after mistakes.  He's all over the place.   sometimes laughs, sometimes slaps his helmet, sometimes is quiet.   Give me the old "peyton pout" anyday.  its natural.  I'd like to see andrew get mad once in a while.  Its my opinion you need a lil of that to become "the best."   

  I LOVE andrew, but i'm a lil over the "aw shucks" routine.  At least on my he field.  Reich should make him room with Big Q this year.

 

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4 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

Also, where is this story of Q slamming papers on a media guys desk?  Not saying it didn't happen, but I can't seem to find it, if anyone can help me with a link, that'd be appreciated!

 

Its a true story, from an interview Q did while I believe on Media Row in Atlanta during SB week. 

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4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Define soft.

 

If I don't shout at a teammate for talking to the opposing team, it makes me soft? If I talk to members of the opposing team, it makes me soft?

 

This 'we need nasty players' stuff is nonsense.

Soft is your attitude toward Q.  You’re just not use to seeing what a reall all pro olineman looks like.  Personally I wish we had a young Incognito at RG and they both beat the D line to death 

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4 hours ago, a06cc said:

Superman you can talk about showing sportsmanship all you want. Go tell that to the KC fans who threw snowballs at us.

 

What does one have to do with the other?

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3 hours ago, HOZER said:

Your second post said it was “nonsense,” which I disagree with and said that’s your opinion. The following are my opinions.....

Fake toughness? Really? He has proven his toughness on the field and was an all pro as a rookie! The guy man handles vets, nothing fake about that.  Nelson to me is the bowling ball of butcher knives that Pagano so desired except for hes not a running back .

You mentioned him yelling at teamates,  like he’s a big jerk to them, the audio from him being mic’d suggests otherwise. Even if he did, he was probably trying to be a leader and trying to get his teamates into the right mindset to play, at least that would be my interpretation of it.

Terrible comparisons. Incognito is a proven psychopath and Suh is a thug who purposely hurts opponents and can’t control his temper. Nelson “yelled” at a teammate???? That makes him like those two, or shows he is trending in that direction? Teamates yell at teamates, in all sports. Peyton manning yelled at his teamates. Lebron  James tells at his teamates. Heck I bet Tiger Woods even yelled at his caddy. It happens in the heat of competition, tempers flare, feelings get hurt, you move on. I’ve played many contact sports, it’s part of it. And the teams with players that were mean and nasty on the field or in the ring won more then the ones who got thier feelings hurt easily. The whole media incident is silly, he probably wouldn’t have even been fined if the media guy wouldn’t have brought so much attention to it with the fake sound bite. There was nothing fake about him confronting the guy, it took cahones IMO because there could have been repercussions to him doing that.

And you’ll notice I said to or about, meaning what he says to his teamates about the opposing team, like telling his teamates not to talk to opposing players.

 

No matter what people will find things to complain about, I get it.

 

Again, it’s football for Pete’s sake!!! 

 

1) I never said Nelson isn't tough. I said this stuff -- shouting at his teammates for talking to the other team, blaming the media guy for his fine -- is fake toughness. 

 

2) There are different leadership styles. My point is that how I get in the right mindset to play isn't going to be the same as someone else's. If Nelson wants to never talk to the opponent, that's fine, and I don't have a problem with it. But don't try to impose your style on me. Luck famously compliments his opponents, and it gets in their heads. 

 

3) My issue really isn't with Nelson yelling at his teammate. You're way off track here. I'm not calling him a bad teammate because he yelled at someone. 

 

4) No one's feelings are hurt. Again, way off track.

 

5) The whole media incident is silly, and so is the idea that Nelson's fine is the media guy's fault. Players get fined for illegal plays all the time, viral video or not. It's petty, at best, for him to blame the media department. 

 

6) Speaking of the media incident, how does that speak to leadership? Confronting the media department because he got fined doesn't get the team in the right frame of mind, it isn't imposing his will on his opponents, and it's not toughness. It didn't take cojones, it was rude and unnecessary, and had nothing to do with the team.

 

7) The issue I have is with this idea that if you are getting in someone's face, you're being tough. People act like this type of confrontation is synonymous with being tough on the field, and it's not. 

 

8) And that's why I brought up Incognito. It's not a comparison, it's a reference. He's evidently crazy, and there's no reason to believe the same about Nelson. But even after the Miami stuff happened, people still defended him. "He's just imposing his will!" "We need that kind of attitude on the Colts!!" There were still people suggesting we sign him last offseason. He was clearly over the line, and people still wanted him. 'We need a little crazy' was an argument for signing him.

 

My point is simple. I don't think this kind of stuff is good leadership or toughness. That doesn't mean Nelson isn't a good leader or that he's not tough. I'm not jumping to any conclusions, I'm not calling him dirty, a bully, a bad teammate, or crazy like Richie Incognito. I'm only saying that this kind of stuff doesn't endear me to him, and I think it's bogus when people act like crossing the line is needed for a team to be tough, physical, and successful. It's not.

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5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

But what has started to bother me is this cult following for Nelson, where this "macho" attitude or whatever it is is being lauded and applauded, and I kind of don't like it. 

Hmmm.  I wondered what is the opposite of "macho" exactly, and who among NFL players meets that criteria?

 

I looked it up on Merriam-Webster online and saw the synonyms included "manliness" and antonyms included "femininity" followed by more.  I don't think it is his "machismo."

 

Perhaps a better description of his on the field comment might have been-

 

"asking that they do not compliment the other team, because you should be focused on playing the game and your own teammates and it's not helpful to boost up your opponent in-game"

 

-which is up for debate, though it doesn't seem to fall under the "things to be worried about" criteria.  Frankly it is more a laugh and nod to earlier days in sport in our cupcake world. 

 

Attacking the media guy? THAT is something worth being concerned about Superman, I agree.  There's a word for that however.  Unprofessional.  He should be expected to be better than that with staff and other personnel as well as the public.   THAT should not be tolerated by any employee of the Colts.  Period.  To use a colloquialism: "Do the crime, do the time" or in this case "Do the crime, pay the fine."  THAT would be closer to "macho." 

 

Repeated acts like that can result in a much more derogatory word applying, first coined in 1810.  Thug.  Let's hope he becomes a better professional off the field beyond just his stellar on field play. 

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3 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

if i'm a defender., and i sack a QB and he says "nice hit", subconsciously (at the very least) , I cant help but think he's "softer" than say a Brady or Manning who throws an F bomb toward me.  Is it fact?  Not necessarily, but in sports, what you think you can do is as important as what you can actually do.

Doesnt anyone study psychology anymore?

 

Wrong.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/andrew-luck-the-nfls-most-perplexing-trash-talker-1418663249

Quote

 

Defensive back Nolan Carroll, who has hit Luck three times and with two teams, remembers the first time it happened while he was with the Miami Dolphins last year. Carroll, now with the Philadelphia Eagles, was blitzing off the edge and got to Luck, knocking him down just after he released the ball. Carroll was walking back to the huddle when he heard “Great job, Nolan!” He turned around, searching for the person who said it—maybe it was a teammate, he thought. “Then I realized it was Luck who said it. I’m like ‘what’s going on? Aren’t you supposed to be mad?’” Carroll said. “So then I’m the one who gets ticked off because an upbeat attitude isn’t something you see.”

 

This, players say, is Luck’s brilliance, even if it is unintentional. According to Baltimore Ravens pass rusher Pernell McPhee, who sacked Luck in October, quarterbacks generally do two things when they are sacked: They complain to the referee, looking for a roughing the passer penalty, or they do nothing and absorb their pain in silence. A handful will get angry if the sack was particularly fierce (don’t get McPhee started on Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers). But Luck is so dramatically different that those who knock him down have no clue what to do. “You love it but at the same time, you really, really hate it,” said Eagles linebacker Connor Barwin.

 

You know if you hear a quarterback get mad, you are in his head,” Carroll said. “With Luck, you thought you hurt the guy, you hear ‘good job’ and you just say ‘aw, man.’”

 

 

I don't know why anyone thinks any of that stuff you posted is true. Anyone who studies psychology knows that not everyone responds exactly the same way to the same situation. But it's obvious -- listening to Luck's opponents -- that when he compliments the other team, it has the potential to get in their heads, not the other way around. 

 

And that's case in point for why I don't want someone shouting in my face about complimenting an opponent. You interact with the opponent your way, I'll interact my way. 

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9 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Hmmm.  I wondered what is the opposite of "macho" exactly, and who among NFL players meets that criteria?

 

I looked it up on Merriam-Webster online and saw the synonyms included "manliness" and antonyms included "femininity" followed by more.  I don't think it is his "machismo."

 

Did you look up "machismo?" Macho is 'one who exhibits machismo,' and machismo is 'an exaggerated masculinity.' 

 

Being macho isn't necessary. You don't have to act like a big tough man to be a big tough man.

 

To the rest of your post, I'm not worried about Nelson. I just stated that I'm not a fan of that story about him.

 

And as for the incident with the media man, I think you're spot on. It's unprofessional, but some have praised him for it, laughed at it, and used it as an example of how much of 'a football player' Nelson is. And I don't intend to make a big deal about it, I just disagree. I don't find it endearing, but it seems like everyone else just melts over it.

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2 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

Soft is your attitude toward Q.  You’re just not use to seeing what a reall all pro olineman looks like.  Personally I wish we had a young Incognito at RG and they both beat the D line to death 

 

Wrong. 

 

Jeff Saturday was an All Pro twice, and he famously got into it with Manning on the sideline, and I had zero problem with it. He was tough, feisty, and a great leader. But he didn't shout at his own teammates for interacting with the opponent. 

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2 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

Soft is your attitude toward Q.  You’re just not use to seeing what a reall all pro olineman looks like.  Personally I wish we had a young Incognito at RG and they both beat the D line to death 

 

Richie Incognito would be on the short list for the last player Chris Ballard would ever consider signing.     Ever.

 

You might like his play on the field,  but it's everything else that has had him on the move his whole life.     An abusive father.    Mutliple high schools.     Multiple colleges.     Multiple NFL teams.    Incognito is a mentally unstable person and that is being kind and generous.     He's often voted the NFL's dirtiest player.     That's not the kind of player Chris Ballard wants on his team or in his locker room.

 

Tough guys are fine.    Heck we drafted the toughest 6th overall when people said that was too high for a guard.     So,  tough is good.

 

But a school yard bully, both to opponents and to fellow teammates is bad.     Whether you know it or not,  you don't ant any part of Richie Incognito.

 

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9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Did you look up "machismo?" Macho is 'one who exhibits machismo,' and machismo is 'an exaggerated masculinity.' 

 

And as for the incident with the media man, I think you're spot on. It's unprofessional

Well, that is part of the definition yes.  The first part of the definition is ":a strong sense of masculine pride :an exaggerated masculinity :an exaggerate or exhilarating sense of power or strength.   I'd say likely all those things all apply to Nelson, but thank goodness they do or he likely wouldn't be a great football player, at least in my view.  Unprofessional behavior is another matter.  Let's hope that part is a rarity.   I hadn't even heard that part of the story until your post.  Thanks for that.  It may be a tiny postage stamp sized flag, but a flag nonetheless. 

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The Colts finally come up with a OL and some complain about being too mean. God help us.

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Just now, King Colt said:

The Colts finally come up with a OL and some complain about being too mean. God help us.

Exactly.... the guy rings up an All-Pro / ProBowl rookie season and people are getting jacked up over style points? :facepalm:

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5 hours ago, HOZER said:

There was nothing fake about him confronting the guy, it took cahones IMO because there could have been repercussions to him doing that.

 

No it really didn't "take cahones".

 

 A #6 overall pick, multi-million dollar player who just made all pro going off on a media department nobody ... there was never going to be any significant "repercussions" for Nelson except maybe a stern talking to by Reich or CB (if that).

 

Personally I don't have a problem with Nelson's actions ... but all the people falling all over themselves get in on the "Nelson is such a nasty man" lovefest is overboard. 

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3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Wrong.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/andrew-luck-the-nfls-most-perplexing-trash-talker-1418663249

 

I don't know why anyone thinks any of that stuff you posted is true. Anyone who studies psychology knows that not everyone responds exactly the same way to the same situation. But it's obvious -- listening to Luck's opponents -- that when he compliments the other team, it has the potential to get in their heads, not the other way around. 

 

And that's case in point for why I don't want someone shouting in my face about complimenting an opponent. You interact with the opponent your way, I'll interact my way. 

You are taking this WAYYYYY over-board.

This is football, not wall street.

That is tame compared to what goes on during a game.

Big Q wasnt trash talking.. not even close.  How is he all of a sudden a trash talker.  He was telling a teammate to not be so noce to the enemy.  Good on him.  And i'll stick to my experience over some "study"...: any day of the week.

 

figured i'd check out that article but i didnt feel like paying to read an obvious fluff-piece with NO data to back it other than other players basically saying "yea man, i dont know what to think when he's sooooo nice, it blows my mind and i just cant focus on what i'm doing."  Well, i guess not that much, but what are they gonna say? "Yea man, its kinda weird how he says  nice hit after i just knocked his helmet off"?  I can see JJ Watt saying that. I still stand by my original thoughts.

They can " swap spit" AFTER the game.

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3 hours ago, King Colt said:

The Colts finally come up with a OL and some complain about being too mean. God help us.

I know.  Heck, i saw MUCH worse language than this during one of those female lingerie-league games.

What the heck? This thread is frickin nuts!  

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5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Richie Incognito would be on the short list for the last player Chris Ballard would ever consider signing.     Ever.

 

You might like his play on the field,  but it's everything else that has had him on the move his whole life.     An abusive father.    Mutliple high schools.     Multiple colleges.     Multiple NFL teams.    Incognito is a mentally unstable person and that is being kind and generous.     He's often voted the NFL's dirtiest player.     That's not the kind of player Chris Ballard wants on his team or in his locker room.

 

Tough guys are fine.    Heck we drafted the toughest 6th overall when people said that was too high for a guard.     So,  tough is good.

 

But a school yard bully, both to opponents and to fellow teammates is bad.     Whether you know it or not,  you don't ant any part of Richie Incognito.

 

Your opinion.   Even Manning said he wanted him 

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2 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

Your opinion.   Even Manning said he wanted him 

 

It may just be @NewColtsFan's opinion but it is 100% correct IMO.

 

You hear Ballard speak for more than 2 minutes and he will mention the importance of the locker room.  Not just the talent, but the character, that matters immensely to Ballard.  Yes he might take a risk on a player with previous issues, but not before exhaustive work to find out about what type of man he is (see Marcus Peters).

 

Incognito has been shown up as racist on more than one occasion, and you think Ballard would allow that in his locker room?  Never mind all the other issues listed by NCF.

 

....oh and you will need to provide a link to somewhere that shows Manning wanted him, as I couldn't find anything.

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7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Did you look up "machismo?" Macho is 'one who exhibits machismo,' and machismo is 'an exaggerated masculinity.' 

 

Being macho isn't necessary. You don't have to act like a big tough man to be a big tough man.

 

To the rest of your post, I'm not worried about Nelson. I just stated that I'm not a fan of that story about him.

 

And as for the incident with the media man, I think you're spot on. It's unprofessional, but some have praised him for it, laughed at it, and used it as an example of how much of 'a football player' Nelson is. And I don't intend to make a big deal about it, I just disagree. I don't find it endearing, but it seems like everyone else just melts over it.

Perhaps the mentality that was starting to form was a product of our previous o-line coach, and could have very well been a factor in the the differing philosophies and parting ways... 

 

I'm probably reading too much into this story. 

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12 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

I will.

This whole country has gotten soft.  But i wont go into that.

if i'm a defender., and i sack a QB and he says "nice hit", subconsciously (at the very least) , I cant help but think he's "softer" than say a Brady or Manning who throws an F bomb toward me.  Is it fact?  Not necessarily, but in sports, what you think you can do is as important as what you can actually do.

Doesnt anyone study psychology anymore?

 

I,for one, have never been thrilled with Luck's reactions after mistakes.  He's all over the place.   sometimes laughs, sometimes slaps his helmet, sometimes is quiet.   Give me the old "peyton pout" anyday.  its natural.  I'd like to see andrew get mad once in a while.  Its my opinion you need a lil of that to become "the best."   

  I LOVE andrew, but i'm a lil over the "aw shucks" routine.  At least on my he field.  Reich should make him room with Big Q this year.

 

Respectfully, I disagree.  It's very easy to disprove that Luck is soft.  For one thing, he was one of the most hit QBs in the league and still continued to play and lead his team.  He played through injuries, including a busted kidney.  Simply making it to the NFL requires a ton of mental and physical toughness.  Just because he compliments a defender and gets along with other NFL players, doesn't mean he's soft.  As for "what you think you can do is as important as what you actually do", I have never seen Luck make any sort of suggestion about what he can't do, so I don't understand the relevance of that point.

 

The implication of "you need a lil of that to become the best" is that Luck isn't already among the best; he is.  He doesn't need to stomp around and beat his chest and tell the world he's the greatest ever.  He just does his job to the best of his ability and does it very well.  So again, I don't see how him acting obnoxiously or swearing or pouting would improve his play.

 

Lastly, I don't think the aw shucks attitude is a routine.  I think that's simply who he is.  He's well-spoken, reserved, humble, gives credit to his teammates and takes responsibility for mistakes.  Philip Rivers is a QB who pouts and trash-talks and he's gained a reputation as a whiny QB.  Brady is infamous for always looking for a flag after any hit and that's given him that reputation.  We have one of the best QBs in the league, he doesn't get into any trouble off the field, he's doing everything right, and people still find a way to complain that he's too nice.

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16 hours ago, Superman said:

 

He shouted to his teammate not to talk to members of the other team. How about you don't talk to them if you don't want to, and leave me alone to do as I wish?

 

But what has started to bother me is this cult following for Nelson, where this "macho" attitude or whatever it is is being lauded and applauded, and I kind of don't like it. 

 

Even the viral scream video, when it came out that it was edited, Nelson's reaction wasn't all that appealing to me. He wound up getting fined on that play, and everyone assumes that he would not have been fined if not for the viral video, as if only viral plays get fines. He says he went into the media guy's office, slammed the letter on his desk, and asked for the money. I don't like any of that. It's not the media guy's fault that Nelson threw an illegal block.

 

Look, I'm all about Quenton Nelson, I think he's going to be great for the Colts, I'm glad he's on the team, I'm looking forward to him continuing to establish himself as one of the best in the game. I have no problem with him physically imposing his will on the field, within the rules. But I'm not a big fan of some of this other stuff.

 

So you like his toughness. But you dont like it when hes being tough? 

 

As far as we are concerned the things he says on the field are hear say. I haven't been able to hear a word from him on game days. 

 

But him having a problem with you being buddy buddy with the other teams players during a game isn't a bad thing. Its them vs us. Now I could understand people having an issue if this was off the field but it simply isn't. 

 

People have been wanting this kind of guy on our line for a long time. Known as a big nasty. On the field. 

 

Remember Dick Butkis? He was exactly this way on the field. Off the field one of the nicer people. 

 

My point is mainly that just because we may hear he slammed a paper on a desk doesn't mean he is a difficult person with a bad attitude. I would suggest letting time go on before we know what kind of person he is. 

 

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5 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

You are taking this WAYYYYY over-board.

This is football, not wall street.

That is tame compared to what goes on during a game.

Big Q wasnt trash talking.. not even close.  How is he all of a sudden a trash talker.  He was telling a teammate to not be so noce to the enemy.  Good on him.  And i'll stick to my experience over some "study"...: any day of the week.

 

figured i'd check out that article but i didnt feel like paying to read an obvious fluff-piece with NO data to back it other than other players basically saying "yea man, i dont know what to think when he's sooooo nice, it blows my mind and i just cant focus on what i'm doing."  Well, i guess not that much, but what are they gonna say? "Yea man, its kinda weird how he says  nice hit after i just knocked his helmet off"?  I can see JJ Watt saying that. I still stand by my original thoughts.

They can " swap spit" AFTER the game.

I find a lot of what you're saying interesting and perplexing.  You'll take your own anecdotal and subjective experience over some study?  You were the one who brought up studying psychology, and @Superman correctly stated that everyone responds to situations differently, but you choose to ignore established science in favour of your own subjective experience?

 

Also, the whole point of the article was getting player feedback on Luck's actions.  That's the exact data that they were looking for, if you want to put it in those terms.  Now that they've gotten that "data" and are presenting it, you again choose to ignore it.  What you're really saying is no matter how well-established anything is and no matter how many people disagree with you, you're going to believe what you want.  That's a very short-sighted and close-minded attitude for someone who claims no one studies psychology anymore.

 

5 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

I know.  Heck, i saw MUCH worse language than this during one of those female lingerie-league games.

What the heck? This thread is frickin nuts!  

 

8 hours ago, pacolts56 said:

Exactly.... the guy rings up an All-Pro / ProBowl rookie season and people are getting jacked up over style points? :facepalm:

No one said he's too mean.  Just that some of his actions could improve.  I think every Colts fan appreciates what Nelson brings to the team on and off the field, but that doesn't mean he's infallible.

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1 minute ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

So you like his toughness. But you dont like it when hes being tough? Ok. 

What's so tough about going to the media guy's office, slamming a paper on his desk, and demanding money for the fine?

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4 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

What's so tough about going to the media guy's office, slamming a paper on his desk, and demanding money for the fine?

 

Well it certainly wasnt soft spoken of him to do that now was it? 

 

Was he not being tough to deal with in that scenario? Also. If you got fined and you felt like it was the cause of a media writer would you not also be upset by this? In your mind you have been slighted whether you were or not. 

 

We have been watching Nelson for one season. There isn't enough evidence to have a problem with his attitude. So if someone does then it's their point of view that is the problem. 

 

Start complaining about his cult follower at the end of year two after he has continued to show an "attitude".

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The tough, nasty guy in this thread called the “awe shucks” soft guy being talked about in this thread a bad*** on the field very recently.

 

So for all the people thinking Andrew doesn’t play well because he’s “soft” on the field (not cussing, yelling, etc.), Big Q would probably be the first to tell you, you’re wrong.  He can go out and kick butt, and still be a nice guy. :) 

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6 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Well it certainly wasnt soft spoken of him to do that now was it? 

 

Was he not being tough to deal with in that scenario? Also. If you got fined and you felt like it was the cause of a media writer would you not also be upset by this? In your mind you have been slighted whether you were or not. 

 

We have been watching Nelson for one season. There isn't enough evidence to have a problem with his attitude. So if someone does then it's their point of view that is the problem. 

 

Start complaining about his cult follower at the end of year two after he has continued to show an "attitude".

To be honest, I think we're making a mountain out of a molehill here, but he wouldn't be justified in feeling he got fined because of a media writer.  The NFL doesn't just review highlights and big plays for fines.  They look at all plays.  Even if that hit didn't go viral, there's a chance he would have gotten a fine for it because it was an illegal block.  So Nelson threw an illegal block, then got mad at the media guy for his fine.

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I like it. We can be cool before, we can be cool after. But during the game you're the enemy and I'm trying to rip your head off and drink blood from your skull. Skol 

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The whole block and fine crap is ridiculous anyways. Personally, I didn't like how Nelson got all butt hurt for the guy mixing the scream into the tape. How he handle it was kinda a whinny little .....he could have just said yeah it was funny but that wasn't me. 

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Here's how I look at this:  You don't want every player to have the same attitude.  We don't need 53 "tough-n-nasty" players cussing out the opponents.  That's fine for defensive players, but I want offensive players to have a different attitude than defensive players.

 

The offense needs to execute a game-plan without emotion, as if the defensive players aren't even there.  They are methodically putting the ball in the endzone, and should "kill them with kindness" when interacting with the defensive players, or flat-out ignore them.  So Andrew Luck has the perfect temperament.  If Nelson wants to ignore the opponents, I'm fine with that, but if another offensive player, like Luck, wants to get in their head by being Mr. Nice Guy, Big Q needs to be ok with that.  For offensive players, they need to have the "just another day at the office" mentality because this league is tailored to the offenses now.

 

Defensive players need to be the opposite because they get the short end of the stick with all these new rules.  They have to make their presence felt, literally but legally.  They have to say they're going to stop you, stop you, and then tell you they stopped you, and not in a nice way.  Defensive players still need to have that "old school" mentality that this is war, and the offense is the enemy.

 

"I'm gonna rip your head off, Steve!!!"

 

"Nice hit Joe.  How are your kids?"

"%#$@ YOU STEVE!!!"

 

(Steve scores a TD on Joe, who cusses Steve out while Steve celebrates with his teammates, and both players go to their respective sideline, still friends meeting at Steves' house for a BBQ later where Joe brags about his big hit and Steve brags about his TD)

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21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

The whole block and fine crap is ridiculous anyways. Personally, I didn't like how Nelson got all butt hurt for the guy mixing the scream into the tape. How he handle it was kinda a whinny little .....he could have just said yeah it was funny but that wasn't me. 

We only heard him tell the story. Did you stop and think he exaggerated it to make it a funny story. He seems to have a dry sense of humor.

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9 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Well, that is part of the definition yes.  The first part of the definition is ":a strong sense of masculine pride :an exaggerated masculinity :an exaggerate or exhilarating sense of power or strength.   I'd say likely all those things all apply to Nelson, but thank goodness they do or he likely wouldn't be a great football player, at least in my view.  Unprofessional behavior is another matter.  Let's hope that part is a rarity.   I hadn't even heard that part of the story until your post.  Thanks for that.  It may be a tiny postage stamp sized flag, but a flag nonetheless. 

 

I was using the word, that's how I meant it. 

 

I'm not concerned about Nelson, contrary to how people in this thread may try to spin my statement. I'm just not impressed by his "macho" acts, and I don't think that's what makes him a good player.

 

I am impressed by his commitment to improving his technique. All Pro as a rookie, and he feels like he wasn't as much of a technician as he needed to be (and I agree). That's what makes him a good player.

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9 hours ago, King Colt said:

The Colts finally come up with a OL and some complain about being too mean. God help us.

 

9 hours ago, pacolts56 said:

Exactly.... the guy rings up an All-Pro / ProBowl rookie season and people are getting jacked up over style points? :facepalm:

 

Wrong. Stop misrepresenting my point. 

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6 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

You are taking this WAYYYYY over-board.

This is football, not wall street.

That is tame compared to what goes on during a game.

Big Q wasnt trash talking.. not even close.  How is he all of a sudden a trash talker.  He was telling a teammate to not be so noce to the enemy.  Good on him.  And i'll stick to my experience over some "study"...: any day of the week.

 

figured i'd check out that article but i didnt feel like paying to read an obvious fluff-piece with NO data to back it other than other players basically saying "yea man, i dont know what to think when he's sooooo nice, it blows my mind and i just cant focus on what i'm doing."  Well, i guess not that much, but what are they gonna say? "Yea man, its kinda weird how he says  nice hit after i just knocked his helmet off"?  I can see JJ Watt saying that. I still stand by my original thoughts.

They can " swap spit" AFTER the game.

 

You're struggling to grasp the point. Or pretending to not understand. 

 

The bolded is probably the best explanation for why: you reject data when it doesn't support your preconceived notions. Your anecdotal "evidence" is more important to you than actual facts.

 

And you don't have to click the link, just read the quotes. It's obvious that Andrew Luck's responses to opponents is more likely to get in their heads than to give them an edge over him. 

 

And again, if you don't want to talk to the opponent during the game, I'm fine with that, but don't impose your style on me. Luck is a perfect example of why.

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

And again, if you don't want to talk to the opponent during the game, I'm fine with that, but don't impose your style on me. Luck is a perfect example of why.

 

^This

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1 hour ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

So you like his toughness. But you dont like it when hes being tough? 

 

As far as we are concerned the things he says on the field are hear say. I haven't been able to hear a word from him on game days. 

 

But him having a problem with you being buddy buddy with the other teams players during a game isn't a bad thing. Its them vs us. Now I could understand people having an issue if this was off the field but it simply isn't. 

 

People have been wanting this kind of guy on our line for a long time. Known as a big nasty. On the field. 

 

Remember Dick Butkis? He was exactly this way on the field. Off the field one of the nicer people. 

 

My point is mainly that just because we may hear he slammed a paper on a desk doesn't mean he is a difficult person with a bad attitude. I would suggest letting time go on before we know what kind of person he is. 

 

 

To the bolded, I don't think him shouting at a teammate because he complimented an opponent is "toughness." I think it's ... something else. Same thing for the media incident.

 

Him finishing blocks, physically dominating his opponent, and generally withering anyone's will to face him on the football field is toughness. 

 

There's little context to this interaction; I think we know it wasn't Luck he was shouting at, but other than that, we don't know what exactly happened. I've never actually said it's a bad thing. I said I'm not impressed by it.

 

And I never called him a difficult person with a bad attitude. Again, stop misrepresenting my point.

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