Zak Keefer - Quenton Nelson Mindset

[Superman]

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

Also, the whole point of the article was getting player feedback on Luck's actions.  That's the exact data that they were looking for, if you want to put it in those terms.  Now that they've gotten that "data" and are presenting it, you again choose to ignore it.  What you're really saying is no matter how well-established anything is and no matter how many people disagree with you, you're going to believe what you want.  That's a very short-sighted and close-minded attitude for someone who claims no one studies psychology anymore.

 

Irony, thy name is WoolMagnet.

[Superman]

45 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I like it. We can be cool before, we can be cool after. But during the game you're the enemy and I'm trying to rip your head off and drink blood from your skull. Skol 

 

I have no problem with Nelson's approach toward the opponent. I'm not a fan of him trying to impose his approach on other members of the team.

 

Imagine Luck shouting at a teammate: "Go over there and tell him that was a nice hit! Don't you ever NOT compliment those m-----f------- again!!"

 

Luck has his approach. Nelson has his approach. I don't think either player would be as good if they weren't being themselves.

[Coffeedrinker]

13 hours ago, a06cc said:

I don’t know what Howard you were following then. Listen to Jeff Saturday. I think for a fact he wants guys to give their all. Saturday wasn’t even the most physical player. He at least tried to finish blocks. Play the game with an “nasty” attitude. 

 

 

13 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

Dunno if the man ever said such in the media, but he most definitely preferred "Nasty" OL who played with a mean streak.... not unnecessary roughness type of nasty, but definitely play through the whistle, try to grind your opponent into dust nasty...  

 

This is just a guess, but the type of guys he was most fond of coaching, probably cared little for niceties on the playing field...  It just kind of goes with the personality type of that kind of player...

Giving their all and "nasty" are two completely different things.  Playing hard or having a mean streak and "nasty" are complete different things.  Mudd wants guys who work hard and have a mean streak.  Again, I've never read or heard anything that indicates Mudd wants or teaches his lineman to be nasty.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

Imagine Luck shouting at a teammate: "Go over there and tell him that was a nice hit! Don't you ever NOT compliment those m-----f------- again ->

 

<- PLEASE AND THANK YOU!!!  Also, nice catch, good job.    Have you finished my book of the month yet?  We'll discuss it in the locker room later, huddle up, and no talking in my huddle, please and thank you."

[Coffeedrinker]

15 hours ago, a06cc said:

Superman you can talk about showing sportsmanship all you want. Go tell that to the KC fans who threw snowballs at us.

What does that have to do with anything being discussed in this thread?  Any are you really suggesting that players should act a certain way because of something a few fans of one team did? 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

 

Giving their all and "nasty" are two completely different things.  Playing hard or having a mean streak and "nasty" are complete different things.  Mudd wants guys who work hard and have a mean streak.  Again, I've never read or heard anything that indicates Mudd wants or teaches his lineman to be nasty.

 

Let's take the semantics out of it. If you define "nasty" as whatever Jeff Saturday was, then I have no problem with it.

 

But finishing the opponent is different from this story about Nelson shouting at his own teammate. And like you said to begin with, there's not enough context to make a judgment about that interaction. I'm only saying that this story about Nelson isn't something that I find endearing.

[Coffeedrinker]

13 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

I,for one, have never been thrilled with Luck's reactions after mistakes.  He's all over the place.   sometimes laughs, sometimes slaps his helmet, sometimes is quiet.   Give me the old "peyton pout" anyday.  its natural.  I'd like to see andrew get mad once in a while.  Its my opinion you need a lil of that to become "the best."   

  I LOVE andrew, but i'm a lil over the "aw shucks" routine.  At least on my he field.  Reich should make him room with Big Q this year.

 

So, it's okay for you to say you don't like something Luck did on the field but it's not okay for @Superman to say he does not like something Nelson did on the field?

 

You are one of my favorite posters on this forum wool but it seems that your are arguing with Super not because he's wrong but just because he reacted differently than you.

[Coffeedrinker]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Let's take the semantics out of it. If you define "nasty" as whatever Jeff Saturday was, then I have no problem with it.

 

But finishing the opponent is different from this story about Nelson shouting at his own teammate. And like you said to begin with, there's not enough context to make a judgment about that interaction. I'm only saying that this story about Nelson isn't something that I find endearing.

Well stated.

 

And for the record, my reaction to what Q did was clearly stated in my first post in this thread.

[HOZER]

10 hours ago, Superman said:

 

1) I never said Nelson isn't tough. I said this stuff -- shouting at his teammates for talking to the other team, blaming the media guy for his fine -- is fake toughness. 

 

2) There are different leadership styles. My point is that how I get in the right mindset to play isn't going to be the same as someone else's. If Nelson wants to never talk to the opponent, that's fine, and I don't have a problem with it. But don't try to impose your style on me. Luck famously compliments his opponents, and it gets in their heads. 

 

3) My issue really isn't with Nelson yelling at his teammate. You're way off track here. I'm not calling him a bad teammate because he yelled at someone. 

 

4) No one's feelings are hurt. Again, way off track.

 

5) The whole media incident is silly, and so is the idea that Nelson's fine is the media guy's fault. Players get fined for illegal plays all the time, viral video or not. It's petty, at best, for him to blame the media department. 

 

6) Speaking of the media incident, how does that speak to leadership? Confronting the media department because he got fined doesn't get the team in the right frame of mind, it isn't imposing his will on his opponents, and it's not toughness. It didn't take cojones, it was rude and unnecessary, and had nothing to do with the team.

 

7) The issue I have is with this idea that if you are getting in someone's face, you're being tough. People act like this type of confrontation is synonymous with being tough on the field, and it's not. 

 

8) And that's why I brought up Incognito. It's not a comparison, it's a reference. He's evidently crazy, and there's no reason to believe the same about Nelson. But even after the Miami stuff happened, people still defended him. "He's just imposing his will!" "We need that kind of attitude on the Colts!!" There were still people suggesting we sign him last offseason. He was clearly over the line, and people still wanted him. 'We need a little crazy' was an argument for signing him.

 

My point is simple. I don't think this kind of stuff is good leadership or toughness. That doesn't mean Nelson isn't a good leader or that he's not tough. I'm not jumping to any conclusions, I'm not calling him dirty, a bully, a bad teammate, or crazy like Richie Incognito. I'm only saying that this kind of stuff doesn't endear me to him, and I think it's bogus when people act like crossing the line is needed for a team to be tough, physical, and successful. It's not.

1. You call it fake toughness, I call it having an attitude, an edge, a certain mindset. If the teammate doesn’t like it, he’s a big boy and they can sort it out. Again, no context in his supposed “shouting” at a teammate, I’ll have to try to find the audio that they referenced. Although IMO, if a player is going to get offended by someone shouting at him on the field, football may not be thier best career choice. 

 

2.  He wasn’t imposing anything on anyone...for one he’s a rookie. If the guy he was supposedly yelling at didn’t want to listen, then he didn’t listen. Again, context. I do have to mention, there’s a reason Nelson was an all pro as a rookie, and it wasn’t for being a nice guy to the opponents or his teamates during the game. Whatever he is doing is obviously working for him and others should take note. And I love Andrew Luck, wouldn’t change a thing about him, he is a bad mama jamma .....but his supposed psychological mind play is ineffective, and I do believe it’s just him being nice and nothing more. He’s just a good dude. The defenders are still trying to rip his head off at any given opportunity. He is the enemy, they will do whatever it takes hopefully within the rules to win the game. He missed a whole season  due to injuries and weak line play, how did his supposed mental warfare work out for him then??? He was sacked very little this season. Why? Because of the NASTY O-line he’s been given.

 

3. Ummmm....ok.

 

4. If you say so, then Ok.

 

5. It is silly, I agree. He could have probably handled it differently, maybe a bit more professionally. But the fact remains that the media guy brought unessessary attention to the play, that may or may not have been reviewed later and fined. I wouldn’t have been happy about that either. I do find it silly that players are fined after games for plays that weren’t flagged, but refs aren’t fined for penalties that they admit to being mistakes and apologize after games...but that’s another topic.

 

6. The media member drawing attention to a play with a made up soundbite(from different play)that resulted to him being fined was rude and unnecessary IMO. Was it being a leader? That’s subjective and It did take cojones, he could have gotten in trouble for it, especially as a rookie.

 

7. Again, if you say so. There are different types of tough. If you get in peoples faces and let them know you’re not scared and maybe a little bit crazy, they will tend to either take you seriously or avoid you. Even more so when you prove it. Nelson even said during one of his interviews that he doesn’t only want to block and take guys down, he also wants to break thier souls. Now if you’re talking about teamates, again that would depend on the situation. I’m also not saying that the quiet but tough guy is bad, sometimes they’re the scarier ones because you never know what they’re going to do. 

 

8. Incognito is a piece of garbage, and if Nelson turned into that I would not like him either. One thing a lot of people tend to forget is that he’s still a kid and has some more maturing/growing up to do. He’ll figure it out. 

 

So you don’t think this type of stuff is an example of good leadership, but then say that doesn’t mean you don’t think Nelson is a good leader. No comprende? And what line did he cross?  Maybe the question should be who’s line?

[DougDew]

17 hours ago, Superman said:

 

He shouted to his teammate not to talk to members of the other team. How about you don't talk to them if you don't want to, and leave me alone to do as I wish?

 

But what has started to bother me is this cult following for Nelson, where this "macho" attitude or whatever it is is being lauded and applauded, and I kind of don't like it. 

 

I agree.  Essentially calling out another player to have the same attitude as you isn't exactly his job, not to mention that other players might approach the situation in a way that works best for them.  In which case, Nelson would be interfering with that.   

 

I think the reason he's all pro has more to do with him being a superior athlete for how big he is, irrelevant of the macho 'tude.   

[Superman]

Good post. Gonna pull out some parts.

 

7 minutes ago, HOZER said:

Although IMO, if a player is going to get offended by someone shouting at him on the field, football may not be thier best career choice. 

 

Kind of off topic. I'm not suggesting Nelson offended anyone, including me.

 

9 minutes ago, HOZER said:

He missed a whole season  due to injuries and weak line play, how did his supposed mental warfare work out for him then??? He was sacked very little this season. Why? Because of the NASTY O-line he’s been given.

 

You're not suggesting that Luck got hurt because he compliments opponents, right? Because he did the same last season, and got hit much less. It's not pertinent variable. But Luck's style of interaction with opponents is different from Nelson's, and that's okay. Like I said, I'm not saying everyone needs to be like Luck, and if Nelson wants to cuss out opponents and give them death stares, I'm perfectly fine with that if it helps him perform.

 

12 minutes ago, HOZER said:

The media member drawing attention to a play with a made up soundbite(from different play)that resulted to him being fined was rude and unnecessary IMO.

 

Whether that's true or not, the confrontation is the part that was in Nelson's control. It's not the media guy's fault that he was fined, and it's a stretch to suggest otherwise. Players get fined for unflagged plays every week, right or wrong.

 

13 minutes ago, HOZER said:

There are different types of tough. If you get in peoples faces and let them know you’re not scared and maybe a little bit crazy, they will tend to either take you seriously or avoid you. Even more so when you prove it. Nelson even said during one of his interviews that he doesn’t only want to block and take guys down, he also wants to break thier souls.

 

And I have no problem with that. I'm talking about his interaction with a teammate, because said teammate doesn't have the same approach between the whistles. 

 

And really, I'm talking about the fan/media reaction to Nelson's interaction with his teammate. Everyone going gaga over this stuff is ... interesting, to me. This thread has turned into a discussion about Nelson's style, and it just as easily could have been about his dedication to his craft. And yet, here we are.

 

Quote

So you don’t think this type of stuff is an example of good leadership, but then say that doesn’t mean you don’t think Nelson is a good leader. No comprende?

 

As you said, he's a kid. He's not perfect. I can think he's a good leader and still think he needs to refine his style of leadership. I think Manning was a good leader, but his public comment about Vanderjagt wasn't an example of good leadership. (Insert a dozen other examples here.)

 

Quote

And what line did he cross?  Maybe the question should be who’s line?

 

As we discussed earlier, I'm giving my opinion. I'm not imposing it on anyone else. Just vocal dissent to what appears to be the majority viewpoint.

 

But I think everyone would agree that being a mean cuss to the opponent is different from shouting at your own teammate for not being a mean cuss to the opponent. And I think everyone would agree that confronting the media guy because you got fined for an illegal block is different also.

[HOZER]

9 hours ago, esmort said:

 

No it really didn't "take cahones".

 

 A #6 overall pick, multi-million dollar player who just made all pro going off on a media department nobody ... there was never going to be any significant "repercussions" for Nelson except maybe a stern talking to by Reich or CB (if that).

Yes. I do believe it did. Getting called to the carpet as a rookie is never a good thing, regardless of your status.

9 hours ago, esmort said:

 

Personally I don't have a problem with Nelson's actions ... but all the people falling all over themselves get in on the "Nelson is such a nasty man" lovefest is overboard. 

Yeah total lovefest, I want to have his baby. This is a forum, people come in here to praise and critique thier favorite team and players....you should expect that coming here. We’re all homers wether you like it or not. Every one of us. You wouldn’t waste your time on here if you weren’t. 

[HOZER]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

You're not suggesting that Luck got hurt because he compliments opponents, right? Because he did the same last season, and got hit much less. It's not pertinent variable. But Luck's style of interaction with opponents is different from Nelson's, and that's okay. Like I said, I'm not saying everyone needs to be like Luck, and if Nelson wants to cuss out opponents and give them death stares, I'm perfectly fine with that if it helps him perform.

 

 

 

No not suggesting that. Many have mentioned that he does it to get into opponents heads, I dont think that’s the case. Hes just a nice guy. He’s been doing it since college. Yes some opponents have said that it confuses them a bit, but as a whole I think they still want to rip his head off if given the opportunity, wether he’s nice to them or not, and that was proven when he was beaten to a pulp and missed significant time.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

But I think everyone would agree that being a mean cuss to the opponent is different from shouting at your own teammate for not being a mean cuss to the opponent.

 

Yeah if you have Jack Ham or Dick Butkus, you don't need 52 more Jack Hams and Dick Butkusses.  You just let Jack Ham be Jack Ham and Dick Butkus be Dick Butkus and you be you.

 

I don't recall any stories about Jack Ham or Dick Butkus shouting at their teammate to "be more like me" and shout obscenities at their opponents...

 

And like you said, Luck isn't telling Nelson to be nicer to the opponents.  "Hey Big Q, that 'gator country' thing you do with your crotch isn't very nice, you need to stop doing that.  Please and thank you." 

[Superman]

By the way, just as a glimpse into my mindset:

 

I love how Nelson runs over to help his teammates up, sometimes throwing the opponent off the pile. He's in a rush to be first there, and he is kind of obsessive about it. 

 

And I hate seeing our guys helping up players from the other team. Not because I want them to be mean, but because I'm not using my energy to help you save energy. Get yourself up. Friendly game at the gym, fine; competitive league game, no way, I'm not helping you up.

 

Just posting because I don't want people to think that I'm anti-Nelson, or that I'm all about having a love-in with the opponent on the field. 

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, HOZER said:

No not suggesting that. Many have mentioned that he does it to get into opponents heads, I dont think that’s the case. Hes just a nice guy. He’s been doing it since college. Yes some opponents have said that it confuses them a bit, but as a whole I think they still want to rip his head off if given the opportunity, wether he’s nice to them or not, and that was proven when he was beaten to a pulp and missed significant time.

 

There's nothing Luck can do to get opponents to not want to rip his head off. But they aren't in his head. If anything, it's the opposite. And maybe that's not why he does it, but it doesn't hurt.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I have no problem with Nelson's approach toward the opponent. I'm not a fan of him trying to impose his approach on other members of the team.

 

Imagine Luck shouting at a teammate: "Go over there and tell him that was a nice hit! Don't you ever NOT compliment those m-----f------- again!!"

 

Luck has his approach. Nelson has his approach. I don't think either player would be as good if they weren't being themselves.

You also have to look at it another way. The defenses job or defensive players is to indimidate and instill fear. Fear of getting hit on a catch, fear of getting hit if you don't get rid of that ball, ect. I think Nelson was doing more of the opposite, don't let these fools get in your head, we aren't hear to be buddy buddy and compliment them on a hit. I understand where Nelson is coming from because that's me. That's my personality as well. But I respect your opinion also. I'm just saying when I'm in that mindset I'm in the zone. I'm in it to win it. 

[Nadine]

If Nelson was talking to Luck, he was out of line. Not sure it's anything other than divisive to correct a team mate on the field like that. Not his job. Not sure how that's a recruiting tool other than to show that Nelson has passion to compete which he clearly does.

 

Nobody can say that Luck lacks a competitors heart.

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Nadine said:

If Nelson was talking to Luck, he was out of line. Not sure it's anything other than divisive to correct a team mate on the field like that. Not his job. Not sure how that's a recruiting tool other than to show that Nelson has passion to compete which he clearly does.

 

Nobody can say that Luck lacks a competitors heart.

I don't think it said who it was. Also is only giving us a snipit and not full context. The rest we are formulating our own opinions. Which hey, we are all free to do so. Merica! 

 

If anything without knowing owing full context it's just not true to me ;)

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Unless Luck had been sacked on the play it wasn’t him. It said Nelson picked the player out of a pile.

 

This thread is cracking me up.  It is trying to make something up that isn’t there.

[John Waylon]

19 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, neither do I. 

 

The second part is great, the first part doesn't impress me.

 

Seconded.

 

First of all it’s a game. Not war or bloodsport. Being a decent human being and being a good football player are not mutually exclusive. Let your play between the whistles do the real talking and whatever is said after the whistle be inconsequential. 

 

If you don’t want talk to anyone that’s fine. But to impose that on others? 

 

Lets reel it in there a bit, bud. 

[King Colt]

As long as QN continues to play like he has I don't give one $#%& about his personality.

"We play to win the game."

"It's all about X's and O's."

"Just win baby."

"All that matters is the win and lose columns."

[Colt.45]

55 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

There's nothing Luck can do to get opponents to not want to rip his head off. But they aren't in his head. If anything, it's the opposite. And maybe that's not why he does it, but it doesn't hurt.

 

Do you think the coaches and GM like the fact that Q does that to teammates? 

I suspect they like the 'attitude' change he brings.

[Yoshinator]

I think it's about one singular mindset for the entire team. Luck's mindset is the antithesis of Nelson's. It completely makes everyone not take Nelson seriously because Luck is goofy and that sets the precedent for the team. Nelson wants the team to have a reputation for being mean and intimidating to get in your head, while Luck wants to have fun and beat you with pure talent. That doesn't mesh well. It's like if I make a Blackjack team full of card counters and one specific player decides he's not going to count and only use perfect basic strategy. That would be Luck. He'd never get kicked out of the casino and be the nice guy, but he'd completely ruin the theme of what the team is trying to do and throw everything out of sync.

 

If it is Luck, I can see why it drives Nelson crazy. It's you Vs the enemy. This is a professional sport. Act like it's competition and win the mental game as well. That's half the battle.

[superrep1967]

I certainly love it the guys on the other teams are the enemy period. They're not paid to make friends they're paid to win to beat your enemy at all cost. The meanest, toughest and most physical team always wins. I'm not saying playing outside the rules but other than that beat the hell out them and don't take any prisoners. So I for one love Nelson and wish we had about 21 other players on this team with the same mentality there's to much soft play anymore.   

[Nadine]

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I think it's about one singular mindset for the entire team. Luck's mindset is the antithesis of Nelson's. It completely makes everyone not take Nelson seriously because Luck is goofy and that sets the precedent for the team. Nelson wants the team to have a reputation for being mean and intimidating to get in your head, while Luck wants to have fun and beat you with pure talent. That doesn't mesh well. It's like if I make a Blackjack team full of card counters and one specific player decides he's not going to count and only use perfect basic strategy. That would be Luck. He'd never get kicked out of the casino and be the nice guy, but he'd completely ruin the theme of what the team is trying to do and throw everything out of sync.

 

If it is Luck, I can see why it drives Nelson crazy. It's you Vs the enemy. This is a professional sport. Act like it's competition and win the mental game as well. That's half the battle.

If feel like you have spun an entire story around this that has no basis in fact. Goofy is the precedent for the Colts? Nelson is carrying the burden of making other teams afraid of the Colts?

 

There's a mesh problem?

 

Everything I've heard would indicate that there's been a significant 'mesh improvement'

 

[superrep1967]

1 hour ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Yeah if you have Jack Ham or Dick Butkus, you don't need 52 more Jack Hams and Dick Butkusses.  You just let Jack Ham be Jack Ham and Dick Butkus be Dick Butkus and you be you.

 

I don't recall any stories about Jack Ham or Dick Butkus shouting at their teammate to "be more like me" and shout obscenities at their opponents...

 

And like you said, Luck isn't telling Nelson to be nicer to the opponents.  "Hey Big Q, that 'gator country' thing you do with your crotch isn't very nice, you need to stop doing that.  Please and thank you." 

Yes, Butkus, Ham and I'd throw Jack Lambert in there too. 

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Do you think the coaches and GM like the fact that Q does that to teammates? 

I suspect they like the 'attitude' change he brings.

 

They might. I don't think Nelson should try to impose his style on his teammates, but that's my opinion.

 

As for his attitude in general, I think what's valuable about his approach is how he dominates opponents and performs on the field, not his apparent willingness to shout at his teammates for having a different approach. 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Nadine said:

If feel like you have spun an entire story around this that has no basis in fact. Goofy is the precedent for the Colts? Nelson is carrying the burden of making other teams afraid of the Colts?

 

There's a mesh problem?

 

Everything I've heard would indicate that there's been a significant 'mesh improvement'

 

I believe 31 other teams notice Luck and his goofy antics, and they put a "label" on us based on Luck being the QB. Nelson is the antithesis of Luck, so he has the burden of changing that label and making teams take us more seriously than just a "soft and nice" team. He has done that to an extent and people are taking notice, but their different personalities don't mesh well IMO, even if they do get along personally. The team is much better, but there's no identity IMO, because Luck acts so much different from Nelson.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

their different personalities don't mesh well IMO, even if they do get along personally. The team is much better, but there's no identity IMO, because Luck acts so much different from Nelson.

 

What evidence can you point to that suggests that either Luck and Nelson don't mesh well on the field, or that the team doesn't have an identity, or that any lack of team identity is specifically because of the differences between Luck and Nelson?

[Nadine]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I believe 31 other teams notice Luck and his goofy antics, and they put a "label" on us based on Luck being the QB. Nelson is the antithesis of Luck, so he has the burden of changing that label and making teams take us more seriously than just a "soft and nice" team. He has done that to an extent and people are taking notice, but their different personalities don't mesh well IMO, even if they do get along personally. The team is much better, but there's no identity IMO, because Luck acts so much different from Nelson.

Goofy antics?

Their personalities don't mesh even though they get along?

I think that Luck's play speaks for itself. I don't think anyone on this team wants him to be anything other that who he is. Maybe some fans feel like he doesn't fit their idea of a football player.   But, that's not a problem for the team

[TheMarine]

man, some y'all need to get it outa a bunch in your drawers.

 

This morphed from a "I dont like his approach" to a "He's not tough or mean enough?/Can they coexist?". Just, no. It doesn't matter a lick. Luck can be whatever goofball he wants to be: We see on the field the man will straight up try and step on your throat. Nelson can be whatever he wants to be: We see on the field he wants to finish each and every single block. #Winning All that Matters

 

Its entered a circular phase where everyone is saying the same things over and over again with varied slightly different takes but saying the same thing over and over again

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I believe 31 other teams notice Luck and his goofy antics, and they put a "label" on us based on Luck being the QB. Nelson is the antithesis of Luck, so he has the burden of changing that label and making teams take us more seriously than just a "soft and nice" team. He has done that to an extent and people are taking notice, but their different personalities don't mesh well IMO, even if they do get along personally. The team is much better, but there's no identity IMO, because Luck acts so much different from Nelson.

Luck compliments the defense when the defense makes a good play.  I don't think teams feel that makes Luck soft,especially the way Luck doesn't back down from contact.  Softness would be Cam Newton not going after a fumble.

 

I know what you're saying about mixed messages, but the physical guys can carry the macho attitude while the QB can carry the brainy attitude.  Mixed messages might make a difference within the Oline as a unit but having the macho attitude from the Oline and the brainy attitude from the QB could also convey the message that the Colts are capable of beating you with either brains or braun.

[Yoshinator]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What evidence can you point to that suggests that either Luck and Nelson don't mesh well on the field, or that the team doesn't have an identity, or that any lack of team identity is specifically because of the differences between Luck and Nelson?

 

7 minutes ago, Nadine said:

Goofy antics?

Their personalities don't mesh even though they get along?

I think that Luck's play speaks for itself. I don't think anyone on this team wants him to be anything other that who he is. Maybe some fans feel like he doesn't fit their idea of a football player.   But, that's not a problem for the team

I'm just going to say in the future (possibly after this FA and the draft even), that it could potentially start a locker-room divide, especially if either Luck's play falls off a bit or if Nelson has a bit of a sophomore slump. There are going to be some players who like Luck's football mindset better, and some that will like Nelson's better. That will continue to occur and be more prevalent as better talent starts to sign (especially non-homegrown players). I truly believe on any team (football or anything else), that a team has to have one mindset, one singular focus, one thought process, in order to succeed. That's up to coaching. As of now, we are all over the place and this forum doesn't even know the identity of this team because of so many different personalities on this team.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

I'm just going to say in the future (possibly after this FA and the draft even), that it could potentially start a locker-room divide, especially if either Luck's play falls off a bit or if Nelson has a bit of a sophomore slump. There are going to be some players who like Luck's football mindset better, and some that will like Nelson's better. That will continue to occur and be more prevalent as better talent starts to sign (especially non-homegrown players). I truly believe on any team (football or anything else), that a team has to have one mindset, one singular focus, one thought process, in order to succeed. That's up to coaching. As of now, we are all over the place and this forum doesn't even know the identity of this team because of so many different personalities on this team.

If that's true, then the team needs to follow the QB and not the LG.  In which case we should be heavily criticizing Nelson for his attitude.

 

I don't think we should, but I think that's the ultimate result of your theory.

 

I think beating the opponent with braun and brains is just fine.  Makes it tough to gameplan against.

[Yoshinator]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If that's true, then the team needs to follow the QB and not the LG.  In which case we should be heavily criticizing Nelson for his attitude.

 

I don't think we should, but I think that's the ultimate result of your theory.

I just see Nelson as somewhat of an alpha-male. Hopefully both of them will continue to play at a high level. The theory would only happen, IMO, if one of them fell off the map, and the team had the thought process that his personality wasn't cutting it (whether they took more to Luck's or Nelson's personality would depend on who fell off and then who the team took to afterward). Just thinking ahead and I hope it doesn't happen. As long as they both play at a high level though, neither will be questioned and the team should gel.

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I truly believe on any team (football or anything else), that a team has to have one mindset, one singular focus, one thought process, in order to succeed. That's up to coaching. As of now, we are all over the place and this forum doesn't even know the identity of this team because of so many different personalities on this team.

 

Yeah, I disagree.

 

The ultimate NFL team that stays on the same page is the Patriots, and they have many and varied personalities on that team. Gronk is very different from Brady, who is very different from McCourty, who is very different Van Noy, etc. A team can be on the same page with a singular mindset without having identical personalities among all 60+ players on the roster.

 

I also don't agree that the Colts have any kind of identity crisis right now. I doubt that there's any conflict between Luck and Nelson, despite their different approaches. The coaching staff appears to be doing a great job getting everyone on the same page, both strategically and culturally. The OL was effective, physical and imposing, and Luck's approach toward teammates in no way undermined that.

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, I disagree.

 

The ultimate NFL team that stays on the same page is the Patriots, and they have many and varied personalities on that team. Gronk is very different from Brady, who is very different from McCourty, who is very different Van Noy, etc. A team can be on the same page with a singular mindset without having identical personalities among all 60+ players on the roster.

 

I also don't agree that the Colts have any kind of identity crisis right now. I doubt that there's any conflict between Luck and Nelson, despite their different approaches. The coaching staff appears to be doing a great job getting everyone on the same page, both strategically and culturally. The OL was effective, physical and imposing, and Luck's approach toward teammates in no way undermined that.

It won't be a problem as long as both of them play at a high level. If one falters, then their approach will be looked at with more scrutiny. So lets just hope we can continue to improve. The best thing we can do is play as a team and stay focused. In the end, talent is a big indicator of who wins as well, and Luck and Nelson will be depended on. Coach Reich just has to come up with a gameplan that fits everyone and sell them on it. As long as the team is one unit and plays well, this shouldn't be an issue.

[ColtStrong2013]

"Obsession to finish." That is Frank Reich's motto,  right?* did you like how I threw that "right" in there just like Frank, lol. 

 

There's good traits about Nelson. One mentioned by superman above, is that he picks his teammates up almost obsessively. But the only trait that I care about with Nelson, and certainly the rest of the o-line and team for that matter, is that they have an obsession to finish. Nelson has it. He's obviously buying into the organization and what they stand for, and what the coaching staff brings to the table. If he continues having an obsession to finish, specifically with his ability to finish, he is going to dominate this league for many years to come. 

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

21 hours ago, Superman said:

 

He shouted to his teammate not to talk to members of the other team. How about you don't talk to them if you don't want to, and leave me alone to do as I wish?

 

But what has started to bother me is this cult following for Nelson, where this "macho" attitude or whatever it is is being lauded and applauded, and I kind of don't like it. 

 

Even the viral scream video, when it came out that it was edited, Nelson's reaction wasn't all that appealing to me. He wound up getting fined on that play, and everyone assumes that he would not have been fined if not for the viral video, as if only viral plays get fines. He says he went into the media guy's office, slammed the letter on his desk, and asked for the money. I don't like any of that. It's not the media guy's fault that Nelson threw an illegal block.

 

Look, I'm all about Quenton Nelson, I think he's going to be great for the Colts, I'm glad he's on the team, I'm looking forward to him continuing to establish himself as one of the best in the game. I have no problem with him physically imposing his will on the field, within the rules. But I'm not a big fan of some of this other 

Not sure it is the macho tude as it could be we were all craving some nasty, meanness in someone to light a spark. I agree there is no reason to be nasty towards personnel within our organization, but i have zero problem with "hatin" the enemy on the field. He wont go all Burfict on people, guaranteed.