Dolphins Targeting Jacoby Brissett

[richard pallo]

4 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Yeah...no way a post hype WR on an expensive 5th year option is worth Brissett. At best, I think it adds no value to a trade because you have to pay him $9.4M...and his production and health are big question marks.

 

That being said, I wouldn't mind signing Parker to a cheap one year deal.

Yeah.. I can see Ballard signing him and hoping to strike Gold again with another Ebron. 

[NewColtsFan]

12 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Based on the value chart, it's more like an early 2nd round pick... around 8th position is 2nd round roughly 500 points. Moving up 26 to 13 (400) and 59 to 48 (100).

 

But I think that is every bit of where Ballard realistically values Brissett. So I think he absolutely would do it. 

 

Huh?     I'm not following.

 

Of course Ballard would do a deal for flip-flopping 1st and 2nd round picks.    Who wouldn't?

 

The question was....  would Ballard do the deal if the only pick that was being flipped was just the 2nd round.     The Colts would flip 58 and Brissett for 48. 

 

Telling me that Ballard would love to flip flop both his 1st and 2nd round picks is simply stating the obvious.    No GM in the right mind would turn that down.     Just for Jacoby Brissett?     Of course he'd do it.

 

[Dark Superman]

On 2/15/2019 at 8:36 PM, FirsTime said:

The tweet is a couple days old maybe this was posted somewhere else and I missed it if so I'm so sorry. Don't know how reliable this source is. 

 

Hopefully we throw a pick in and shoot for Xavien Howard!

Maybe their second rounder if we are really lucky; especially considering Flacco went for a fourth. (probably no chance but I can hope for the best)

Any other trade thoughts?!

1

 

If Miami traded Howard straight up for Brissett I would be shocked. Very, very shocked.

[ColtStrong2013]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Huh?     I'm not following.

 

Of course Ballard would do a deal for flip-flopping 1st and 2nd round picks.    Who wouldn't?

 

The question was....  would Ballard do the deal if the only pick that was being flipped was just the 2nd round.     The Colts would flip 58 and Brissett for 48. 

 

Telling me that Ballard would love to flip flop both his 1st and 2nd round picks is simply stating the obvious.    No GM in the right mind would turn that down.     Just for Jacoby Brissett?     Of course he'd do it.

 

 

I grossly misread the thread. My bad. 

[Coffeedrinker]

On 2/15/2019 at 10:08 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

If DeAndre Baker falls past Denver, I wouldn't mind trading pick #26 and Brissett to the Dolphins in order to acquire him. That would be a deal both teams might agree to if the Dolphins are indeed interested.

That would be placing JB's value as a mid 2nd rounder and I don't think he is worth that much to any team.

 

I could see the Colts trading pick #58 and JB to the Dolphins for pick 48.  But only if there is someone there they really think will be a difference maker, other than that I think JB has more value as a back-up then moving up 10 spots in the 2nd round.

[ColtStrong2013]

13 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

That would be placing JB's value as a mid 2nd rounder and I don't think he is worth that much to any team.

 

I could see the Colts trading pick #58 and JB to the Dolphins for pick 48.  But only if there is someone there they really think will be a difference maker, other than that I think JB has more value as a back-up then moving up 10 spots in the 2nd round.

 

I agree. I've stated on here many times, and Ballard has made it very clear, Brissett's value to the team even for just one more year is worth more than what his value is going to be on the market. But, we have seen teams reach for players or give up a lot more than what anyone would ever think, so I think there still could be a deal done here. It'll shock a lot of people on this forum if it happens, as Ballard is going to win the trade...

[richard pallo]

5 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

I agree. I've stated on here many times, and Ballard has made it very clear, Brissett's value to the team even for just one more year is worth more than what his value is going to be on the market. But, we have seen teams reach for players or give up a lot more than what anyone would ever think, so I think there still could be a deal done here. It'll shock a lot of people on this forum if it happens, as Ballard is going to win the trade...

Ballard won Executive of the year because of his great draft this year not due to any trades he made.  He has said publicly that trades should be a win win for both sides. So I am expecting any trades to be just that.  Not just a win for Ballard. 

[Yoshinator]

37 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

That would be placing JB's value as a mid 2nd rounder and I don't think he is worth that much to any team.

 

I could see the Colts trading pick #58 and JB to the Dolphins for pick 48.  But only if there is someone there they really think will be a difference maker, other than that I think JB has more value as a back-up then moving up 10 spots in the 2nd round.

I disagree with this completely. The dolphins are showing interest in him. They'll do something to this extent if a trade happens. It won't be #58 and Brissett for #48. The majority thought we'd get less to move down from #3 to #6 in last year's draft and they were wrong. Ballard isn't going to settle. The board gets a pass for it for that trade, this year it should be plain and clear based on Ballard's comments on the situation.

[Matthew Gilbert]

34 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Ballard won Executive of the year because of his great draft this year not due to any trades he made.

Weird. I thought he made a trade with the Jets to acquire more draft capital. Which he then turned into really good picks that won him that award.

[richard pallo]

22 minutes ago, Matthew Gilbert said:

Weird. I thought he made a trade with the Jets to acquire more draft capital. Which he then turned into really good picks that won him that award.

That's right.  The picks won him the award.  Not the trade.  I was directing my comment on player trades as the thread references with Brissett. 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Ballard won Executive of the year because of his great draft this year not due to any trades he made.  He has said publicly that trades should be a win win for both sides. So I am expecting any trades to be just that.  Not just a win for Ballard. 

 

51 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

That's right.  The picks won him the award.  Not the trade.  I was directing my comment on player trades as the thread references with Brissett. 

 

I don't follow. #1, those picks don't happen without the trade. #2, I know the Jets think it was a win-win for them as they picked up Darnold (Questionable) but I, and many experts/fans think Ballard robbed them blind. From a point valuation, he did. From the haul that he brought in (and will continue to bring in with the 34th pick) he absolutely did. The trade and subsequently, the picks, will go down as one of the best draft trades of all time. 

[ColtStrong2013]

@MPStack, you are so often confused on this forum...

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

@MPStack, you are so often confused on this forum...

 

And you are so easily offended!

 

Go check yourself into a mental ward....

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, MPStack said:

 

And you are so easily offended!

 

Go check yourself into a mental ward....

 

Lol. 

[TomDiggs]

I am still confused as to why folks keep thinking that we would move Jacoby for a 4th rounder or fourth round value.

 

I just simply do not see that at all.

 

If rumors are true (and they may be nonsense), we could have had a 2 for JB last year (rumors claimed Seattle was offering a 2. Probably not entirely true but who knows).

 

At the time w the Luck uncertainty it makes sense that we just couldn't do it.

 

It also makes sense that JB has slightly less value now since he has one less year on that rookie deal and whoever acquires him has him cheap for one year and then has to pay him to keep him if he pans out as their starter.

 

Where things go off the rails a tiny bit is that if JB stays with us and then signs somewhere next off-season as a free agent, he will likely get a decent contract. If he wants to start somewhere and anyone is going to pay him as a starter (even a low end starter), he could fetch anywhere from $12-$18M annually on a deal. If Mike Glennon can net $15M a year and Keenum $18M a year, then someone will pay him over $10M a year if they see him as a starter.

 

That puts him in 3rd-4th rounder compensatory pick territory for 2020's draft.

 

That means that JB is worth at least a 4th-5th rounder this year (based on his 2020 value alone) and that's before you factor in his small $2M contract for this year and the one year trial period.

 

He needs to net at least a 3rd rounder in value and approach Tyrod Taylor's trade status from last year in order for us to flinch, in my opinion.

 

I am personally OK with us keeping JB around and then just netting the comp pick in 2020 if we cannot get a 3rd or better for him this year.

 

The only risky thing with that is if we decide that next year is the year we are going to finally spend some money, then we could off-set the loss of JB enough that we do not get that comp pick.

 

So again this would be a calculated risk.

 

I am very curious to see how this off-season goes.

 

 

[richard pallo]

We all know beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  And there were reporters in NY and elsewhere who were suggesting the Giants trading for JB at the deadline.  Now we are hearing more reports of the Giants being receptive to hearing about offers for OBJ.  Using Brissett as part of a package for OBJ might be a trade worth exploring.  

[Matthew Gilbert]

9 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Using Brissett as part of a package for OBJ might be a trade worth exploring.  

I'd probably pursue that trade in Madden 19 on Xbox but in real life, I don't want OBJ anywhere near my locker room.

[Hoose]

Well, regardless of locker room presence, it will take a lot more than JB to pry OBJ from the Giants. And I'm one of the people who believe the Colts could net a #2 pick for JB. 

1 hour ago, Matthew Gilbert said:

I'd probably pursue that trade in Madden 19 on Xbox but in real life, I don't want OBJ anywhere near my locker room.

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 2/17/2019 at 1:27 AM, esmort said:

 

I'm all for moving JB for the right price, but there is no way I trade him just to move up from 58 to 48. I don't think that's even close to an offer Ballard would accept.

 

 

Probably not what Ballard would consider, agreed.

 

On 2/17/2019 at 3:35 AM, esmort said:

I know that's how you based your value.  But, regardless of what the value chart says; barring some unforeseen draft development I just don't see the value there. I would probably keep JB for anything less than a 3rd. Even if I were going to take 4th rnd compensation for him I think would rather have the actual extra 4th round pick than the moving up 10 picks in the middle of the second. Maybe if moving up 10 picks put us at the top of the 2nd or end of the 1st, but lower 2nd to middle 2nd ... Meh ... no thanks.

 

Not likely we move him for what most here appear to want.  There are other options besides JB.

 

On 2/17/2019 at 12:05 PM, Defjamz26 said:

Not necessarily. They’d be getting a franchise QB

 

I don't feel your definition of franchise QB is near what mine is.  I agree with one that once said-

"In my definition, a 'franchise quarterback' is a guy capable of delivering wins, regardless of situation and circumstance."

 

JB didn't win with a bad Colts team, and likely have difficulty winning with a different bad team.

 

Quote

and still getting to keep their first and 2nd round picks. That’d actually be a steal for them considering they have a lot of needs. Usually when you trade for a franchise QB you have to give up a 1st rounder and then worry about giving him help next year.  The Dolphins could acquire Brissett from us and then draft a WR at 26 to pair with him.

 

JB was a 3rd round pick, and 3rd string QB!  The game he came in for Garoppolo, the Pats were leading 21-0.  After JB entered, Miami scored 24 points to Pats 10. Pat's won 31-24 (but i count it as JB loss). he beat Texans, lost to Bills... on the Pats team. 1-2, (to me) then came to Colts and went 4-12.  What definition of franchise QB does he fit?

 

16 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I disagree with this completely. The dolphins are showing interest in him. They'll do something to this extent if a trade happens. It won't be #58 and Brissett for #48. The majority thought we'd get less to move down from #3 to #6 in last year's draft and they were wrong. Ballard isn't going to settle. The board gets a pass for it for that trade, this year it should be plain and clear based on Ballard's comments on the situation.

 

What if Miami decides to trade their round 1 pick to AZ for Josh Rosen instead?  The Cards are heavily interested in Kyler Murray-

 

Kliff Kingsbury back on October 28, 2018:

"Kyler is a freak.....I would take him with the first pick of the draft if I could." (via @EricKellyTV)

https://t.co/N9m99DkTNr

 

Teams always have multiple plans / options (we often don't hear about) in case some preferred deals just aren't working out.

 

[Matthew Gilbert]

1 hour ago, Hoose said:

Well, regardless of locker room presence, it will take a lot more than JB to pry OBJ from the Giants. And I'm one of the people who believe the Colts could net a #2 pick for JB. 

 

Without a doubt it would take more than Brissett to net OBJ. And I'm with you on JB being worth a second rounder (to the right team).

[Matthew Gilbert]

2 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

What if Miami decides to trade their round 1 pick to AZ for Josh Rosen instead?  The Cards are heavily interested in Kyler Murray-

There is something to this, even if it's another team besides Mia. I could certainly see Arz trading Rosen somewhere before the draft if Kingsbury is really that enamored with Murray. 

[Defjamz26]

59 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I don't feel your definition of franchise QB is near what mine is.  I agree with one that once said-

"In my definition, a 'franchise quarterback' is a guy capable of delivering wins, regardless of situation and circumstance."

 

JB didn't win with a bad Colts team, and likely have difficulty winning with a different bad team.

 

I’m not saying that I absolutely believe he’s a franchise QB. I’m not as jaded as other members of the board. I’m saying that if Miami makes that trade it’s because they believe they’re getting a franchise QB. They believe he’s got a better floor and ceiling than whatever QBs they’d be passing over. I’m in your boat. I’m not 100% convinced Brissett is a franchise QB. But if the Dolphins or another team do and make a sizable offer, then he should be traded on that belief.

[NewColtsFan]

On 2/18/2019 at 4:37 AM, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

I grossly misread the thread. My bad. 

 

Hey....    no worries...   misreading the thread happens all the time around here by all of us,  me, very much included.

 

If I had $1 for every time I misread a thread,  I'd be retired and living the good life!    And trust me, I'm not doing either of those things!      

[Superman]

2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

What if Miami decides to trade their round 1 pick to AZ for Josh Rosen instead?  The Cards are heavily interested in Kyler Murray-

 

 

So would Miami rather have Rosen for a first, or Brissett for a second?

 

I personally think it's Rosen, easily.

[Coffeedrinker]

20 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I disagree with this completely. The dolphins are showing interest in him. They'll do something to this extent if a trade happens. It won't be #58 and Brissett for #48. The majority thought we'd get less to move down from #3 to #6 in last year's draft and they were wrong. Ballard isn't going to settle. The board gets a pass for it for that trade, this year it should be plain and clear based on Ballard's comments on the situation.

The only thing unusual about that trade was that the Jets threw in a 2nd round pick this year.  But still based on the value chart the Colts got a good deal but (got 2750 points for a 2200 point slot) but not a significant jump.

[BProland85]

On 2/17/2019 at 11:02 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Huh?     I'm not following.

 

Of course Ballard would do a deal for flip-flopping 1st and 2nd round picks.    Who wouldn't?

 

The question was....  would Ballard do the deal if the only pick that was being flipped was just the 2nd round.     The Colts would flip 58 and Brissett for 48. 

 

Telling me that Ballard would love to flip flop both his 1st and 2nd round picks is simply stating the obvious.    No GM in the right mind would turn that down.     Just for Jacoby Brissett?     Of course he'd do it.

 

 

I think the swap of 1sts and 2nds with Miami would be a fair offer that Ballard would accept. Only swapping 2nds, Ballard would decline. 

 

He'd love having the ammo to potentially trade down again from 13 overall and still get a Christian Wilkins or Montez Sweat. 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

The only thing unusual about that trade was that the Jets threw in a 2nd round pick this year.  But still based on the value chart the Colts got a good deal but (got 2750 points for a 2200 point slot) but not a significant jump.

 

What value chart are you referring to? Every chart I looked at always said we pulled 3100 from that trade which is the equivalent of the 18th pick in the 1st round versus the 35th pick of the draft in your total. That's quite a difference...

 

6- 1600

37- 530

49 (which we traded down to 52 for a late round pick) - 410

2019 34- 560

Total- 3100

 

*And to add to the conversation, I still say the point value total doesn't reflect pulling two starting offensive lineman, one who was all-pro as a rookie. 

[DougDew]

Its hard to put a true value on Brissett.  He is worth more to some teams than others, and if Miami's HC liked what he saw, then Brissett probably has more value to MIA than any other team.  I don't know if Ballard holds many cards, other than to simply say no to an offer he doesn't like.

 

Personally, while its nice to have a backup QB that can win a few games, I don't think our roster is at the point where we need to be concerned about how good our backup QB is. 

[Coffeedrinker]

13 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

What value chart are you referring to? Every chart I looked at always said we pulled 3100 from that trade which is the equivalent of the 18th pick in the 1st round versus the 35th pick of the draft in your total. That's quite a difference...

 

6- 1600

37- 530

49 (which we traded down to 52 for a late round pick) - 410

2019 34- 560

Total- 3100

 

*And to add to the conversation, I still say the point value total doesn't reflect pulling two starting offensive lineman, one who was all-pro as a rookie. 

The 2019 pick is not valued the same, it's valued as the middle of one round less.  So the 2019 2nd pick is valued as a mid 3rd round pick.

 

Also what Ballard does with those picks does not change the value of the picks when the trade happens.  What he does with the picks is what makes Ballard a good GM.

[ColtStrong2013]

42 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

The 2019 pick is not valued the same, it's valued as the middle of one round less.  So the 2019 2nd pick is valued as a mid 3rd round pick.

 

Also what Ballard does with those picks does not change the value of the picks when the trade happens.  What he does with the picks is what makes Ballard a good GM.

 

Thanks for clarification. It might have been valued that last year, but that #34 round pick is looking prettty sweet right now.

 

I agreed. He could have busted those picks, and it would be a moot point. But he didn't and perspective is everything... and he knocked it out of the park. We won't know the true value of that trade for a few more years, but it's going to go down as one of the best moves, looking back, IMO.

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

I think the swap of 1sts and 2nds with Miami would be a fair offer that Ballard would accept. Only swapping 2nds, Ballard would decline. 

 

He'd love having the ammo to potentially trade down again from 13 overall and still get a Christian Wilkins or Montez Sweat. 

 

Of course you think it's a fair offer --- you're a Colts fan.

 

But this is the only place in the football world where anyone would think it's a fair offer.    Everywhere else the idea that flip-flopping 1st and 2nd round picks for JB alone would be greeted with hysterical laughter.      Seriously.  

 

Miami is not going to even consider that.

 

[shasta519]

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Of course you think it's a fair offer --- you're a Colts fan.

 

But this is the only place in the football world where anyone would think it's a fair offer.    Everywhere else the idea that flip-flopping 1st and 2nd round picks for JB alone would be greeted with hysterical laughter.      Seriously.  

 

Miami is not going to even consider that.

 

 

Haha....agreed. That value of that trade is basically the Colts' #34 pick...which is already high. But the opportunity cost involved in taking Brissett instead of picks...if they were looking to trade down...not to mention the potential to miss out on certain players...just makes it way too high. 

 

I don't think a late 2nd round pick is completely out of the question...but it would probably take that 4th round comp or 5th round pick going back. Most likely Brissett can get an early 3rd round pick I think. 

 

But Ballard is shrewd...so I have confidence he can creative and maximize his value. But he's not a hypnotist.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Haha....agreed. That value of that trade is basically the Colts' #34 pick...which is already high. But the opportunity cost involved in taking Brissett instead of picks...if they were looking to trade down...not to mention the potential to miss out on certain players...just makes it way too high. 

 

I don't think a late 2nd round pick is completely out of the question...but it would probably take that 4th round comp or 5th round pick going back. Most likely Brissett can get an early 3rd round pick I think. 

 

But Ballard is shrewd...so I have confidence he can creative and maximize his value. But he's not a hypnotist.

 

 

 

Please believe me when I say I hope you're right.    If Miami is indeed even a little bit interested,  I'd be thrilled if we coaxed their 3rd round pick for JB.     Seriously, I'd be delighted!

 

And I fully agree,  I suspect Ballard and his team will indeed maximize whatever we can get for the player.    And,  I'd even be OK if we sign the kid to be our well paid back-up.    Win-win for everyone!

 

[shasta519]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Please believe me when I say I hope you're right.    If Miami is indeed even a little bit interested,  I'd be thrilled if we coaxed their 3rd round pick for JB.     Seriously, I'd be delighted!

 

And I fully agree,  I suspect Ballard and his team will indeed maximize whatever we can get for the player.    And,  I'd even be OK if we sign the kid to be our well paid back-up.    Win-win for everyone!

 

 

I think the only way Ballard re-signs Brissett is if his market just never really materializes. That could definitely happen...but before it does...I think Ballard is going to do whatever he can to get Brissett a starting gig in a good situation (or at the very least...a shot at the starting gig)...while also coaxing value out of it for the team.