The Safety Position Moving Into Next Season

[ProblChld32]

I was wondering what was everyone’s thoughts on the Safety position moving into next season. I know Geathers is set to be a FA and can move on and secure a larger contract elsewhere, which I personally wouldn’t mind as Geathers more often then not was Injured and not on the field. A person I wouldn’t mind seeing getting the nod opposite of Hooker is Mathias Farley. I’m a big supporter of this guy and feels like he has what it takes to be a starter in this league. I think a lot of us forgot about him since he went on IR early in the season. But in his short stint he played at a very High level and is an exceptionally better Cover safety than Geathers is , which you need in a Cover 2 Defense. I would like to see Geathers walk (IMO he shouldn’t be given a super large contract Atleast not from the colts) resign Mathias which likely won’t cost too much bring back Mitchell on a 1 year deal (his veteran leadership truly had a positive impact on the secondary). Lastly draft a safety to come in and compete as depth will certainly be needed as we saw at this position throughout the season. 

 

What are everyones thoughts on the position? 

[Colts1324]

I like Farley. But personally, I don’t think Farley is an upgrade over Geathers. He may start on 3-4 teams in this league, but he is not anything more than serviceable. Ballard is going to make a move at the safety position. 

 

I doubt Landon Collins becomes available, but if he does, Ballard will go after him hard.  

 

Amos would be the most reasonable free agent pick up at safety. Pairing Amos with Hooker would likely give us a top 5 duo in the league. 

 

Wouldn’t be surprised if we look to draft a safety in the top two rounds to start next year either. 

[MikeCurtis]

We need some more reliable play from our safety position

 

Geathers had some good games at the end of the season, and made some decent plays

 

But.......   personally, I dont would like us to take a swing at a FA (and or draft)

[That Guy]

We need more than two starting-caliber safeties.  'Flus liked the multiple safety sets.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Safeties get hurt easy in this kind of defense. They are actually more important then the CB. We need more quality safeties for depth.

[DougDew]

As far as FS, I know Hooker gets a lot of praise for doing what he does off screen and off the stat sheet, but I'm skeptical that the praise is worth it.  I don't know how high of a draft pick or how much salary you need to pay a FS to do virtually nothing else other than to be in the right place on pass plays.  Maybe that's a more rare and gifted thing than I think it is.  I simply don't know. 

 

The rest of the safeties are backups.  I think they are good enough to not devote a lot of capital this offseason to replace them.  If a great SS falls out of a tree and becomes available, then I can see spending the capital.

[Maniac]

Draft Adderley

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

I was wondering what was everyone’s thoughts on the Safety position moving into next season. I know Geathers is set to be a FA and can move on and secure a larger contract elsewhere, which I personally wouldn’t mind as Geathers more often then not was Injured and not on the field. A person I wouldn’t mind seeing getting the nod opposite of Hooker is Mathias Farley. I’m a big supporter of this guy and feels like he has what it takes to be a starter in this league. I think a lot of us forgot about him since he went on IR early in the season. But in his short stint he played at a very High level and is an exceptionally better Cover safety than Geathers is , which you need in a Cover 2 Defense. I would like to see Geathers walk (IMO he shouldn’t be given a super large contract Atleast not from the colts) resign Mathias which likely won’t cost too much bring back Mitchell on a 1 year deal (his veteran leadership truly had a positive impact on the secondary). Lastly draft a safety to come in and compete as depth will certainly be needed as we saw at this position throughout the season. 

 

What are everyones thoughts on the position? 

 

 So we saw Geathers play a lot of snaps supporting the box (in Your cover 2).
 And he played a number of snaps beside Leonard as a LB in the playoffs.
  Geathers played 68% of our defensive snaps for the season.
 Farley is a RFA that may get a 2nd rd designation from us. That would have us paying him a $2M salary for 2019. Unless someone else offers him more, and we let him go. Then they give us a 2nd rd pick if we do let him go (not happening). 

 Like you, i like Mathias in this D for many situations. 

[Hoose]

The Colts need more talent at the position. I suspect they resign Geathers and draft another box safety in Day 2. 

[MacDee1975]

6 hours ago, Colts1324 said:

I like Farley. But personally, I don’t think Farley is an upgrade over Geathers. He may start on 3-4 teams in this league, but he is not anything more than serviceable. Ballard is going to make a move at the safety position. 

 

I doubt Landon Collins becomes available, but if he does, Ballard will go after him hard.  

 

Amos would be the most reasonable free agent pick up at safety. Pairing Amos with Hooker would likely give us a top 5 duo in the league. 

 

Wouldn’t be surprised if we look to draft a safety in the top two rounds to start next year either. 

 

I would.  I'd be extremely surprised.

[coltsfeva]

 Funny how a guy can go from “the next Bob Sanders” to a bust.

  His 40 times ranged from 4.38 to 4.54, so he’s not as slow as some would suggest.

   His size (6’2” - 220) suggests he has the body to defend the run and he does have the potential to get better in coverage.

    The knock on him coming out, was that he missed a lot of tackles and I think we’ve seen improvement there. Maybe part of his weakness in coverage is due to inexperience. My hope is that experience will help him in coverage.

    If Geathers has his best year, he can be pretty darn good. We talk about continuity on the Oline. Having continuity in the secondary (and LB corps), is just as important.

    Geathers is versatile and that shouldn’t be overlooked.

     Mitchell and Fairley are solid backups but there may be someone in the draft worth taking, but I’m not sure if Safety is as big of a need as passrusher, receiver, corner or even an Olineman.

   

  

[Defjamz26]

Geathers is a liability in coverage, but a plus in run defense. He’s injury prone because of that unfortunate neck injury. Betting on him long term would be a huge risk IMO. I’d bring him back on a cheap 1-2 deal and draft a safety like Amani Hooker early. He’s just as versatile as Geathers, but way better in coverage (shallow zones). 

[Scott Pennock]

Hooker is just fine and will be more back to normal next year.

 

Geathers and/or Fairley will be re-signed and a draft pick drafted to replace him in a year or two. 

 

They could always pursue Amos from the Bears or Clinton-Dix from the Redskins as a compliment to Hooker.

[shasta519]

21 hours ago, That Guy said:

We need more than two starting-caliber safeties.  'Flus liked the multiple safety sets.

 

Exactly. This team likes to run big nickel a good percentage of time. So ideally, they need at least three starting caliber Ss...preferably two of those being top tier players (Hooker + a SS).

 

And then on top of that, thy need depth for both FS and SS. 

 

I think there is a good chance Ballard brings someone back AND brings in a couple via draft/FA.

[ProblChld32]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

Geathers is a liability in coverage, but a plus in run defense. He’s injury prone because of that unfortunate neck injury. Betting on him long term would be a huge risk IMO. I’d bring him back on a cheap 1-2 deal and draft a safety like Amani Hooker early. He’s just as versatile as Geathers, but way better in coverage (shallow zones). 

 

If they do consider Drafting one which I think that’s a major possibility, I like Taylor Rapp from Washington the guy is a smart football player and has a knack for being around the Football and making plays.

[ProblChld32]

53 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Hooker is just fine and will be more back to normal next year.

 

Geathers and/or Fairley will be re-signed and a draft pick drafted to replace him in a year or two. 

 

They could always pursue Amos from the Bears or Clinton-Dix from the Redskins as a compliment to Hooker.

 

I wouldn’t Mind Amos I’ll pass on Haha 

[Colts1324]

2 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

 

If they do consider Drafting one which I think that’s a major possibility, I like Taylor Rapp from Washington the guy is a smart football player and has a knack for being around the Football and making plays.

I love Taylor Rapp. Have a feeling he will be the Darius Leonard(steal) of the draft on defense. 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

The problem with FA, and the draft really, is that most of the top guys are FS. I've been saying this, and I know some disagree, but in Flus system you essentially need a few FS over the top. More rangey, athletic playmakers that can get the job done once the pass rush gets home. I'd love to come out with Clinton Dix, myself. 

[Scott Pennock]

7 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

 

I wouldn’t Mind Amos I’ll pass on Haha 

Why pass on Haha? Just curious....

[Defjamz26]

9 hours ago, Colts1324 said:

I love Taylor Rapp. Have a feeling he will be the Darius Leonard(steal) of the draft on defense. 

He can’t cover though.

[Colts_Fan12]

24 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

He can’t cover though.

We have enough of those types at SS

[aaron11]

10 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Why pass on Haha? Just curious....

hes a free safety like hooker.  they could still play together, but our third level tackling wouldnt be ideal

[r a y s k i]

On 2/13/2019 at 10:06 PM, DougDew said:

As far as FS, I know Hooker gets a lot of praise for doing what he does off screen and off the stat sheet, but I'm skeptical that the praise is worth it.  I don't know how high of a draft pick or how much salary you need to pay a FS to do virtually nothing else other than to be in the right place on pass plays.  Maybe that's a more rare and gifted thing than I think it is.  I simply don't know. 

 

The rest of the safeties are backups.  I think they are good enough to not devote a lot of capital this offseason to replace them.  If a great SS falls out of a tree and becomes available, then I can see spending the capital.

I agree about Hooker, might not be as good as we all think, personally, for me he has not lived up to his college hype.

 

On the safety position note, it is in my opinion one of the most difficult positions to play and there are not many out there who is on the better than good level. Especially not all around safety type.

[Valpo2004]

On 2/13/2019 at 5:06 PM, DougDew said:

As far as FS, I know Hooker gets a lot of praise for doing what he does off screen and off the stat sheet, but I'm skeptical that the praise is worth it.  I don't know how high of a draft pick or how much salary you need to pay a FS to do virtually nothing else other than to be in the right place on pass plays.  Maybe that's a more rare and gifted thing than I think it is.  I simply don't know. 

 

The rest of the safeties are backups.  I think they are good enough to not devote a lot of capital this offseason to replace them.  If a great SS falls out of a tree and becomes available, then I can see spending the capital.

 

Yeah put a safety back there that defenses arn't afraid of or who isn't in the right place on pass plays and you will be begging for Hooker back.  

 

Lets compare some safety coverage stats.

 

Landon Collins - 12 Games played - 4 Passes defensed - 0 Interceptions

 

Malik Hooker - 14 Games played - 4 Passes defensed - 2 Interceptions

 

Harrison Smith - 16 games played - 6 passes defensed - 3 interceptions

 

Derwin James - 16 games played - 13 passes defensed - 3 interceptions

 

Eric Weddle - 16 games played - 3 passes defensed - 0 interceptions

 

Eddie Jackson - 14 Games played - 15 passes defensed - 6 interceptions

 

Malcom Jenkins - 16 games played - 8 passes defensed - 1 interception

 

Jamal Adams - 16 games played - 12 passes defnesed - 1 interception

 

What I just posted there is all of the safeties that where named to the pro-bowl this year and Malik Hooker.

 

Now maybe Hooker isn't a pro-bowler, a lot of these guys are probably better in run support than Hooker is. (But given how good our DL and LB's as well as Geathers where at stopping the run, it's not like Hooker would have got many cracks at it.) 

 

But save for Eddie Jackson, you don't see any of them with big interception numbers.  Two of them don't have any interceptions at all, two of them only have 1 interception (less than Hooker's 2).   7 safeties named to the pro-bowl and four of them have less interceptions than Hooker.  Two of them only have 1 more interception than Hooker.

 

This should demonstrate the issue with determining a DB's value based on interception numbers.  Most likely, much like Hooker, the opposition avoided throwing at these guys a lot.  

 

Hooker as noted by PFF averaged I think it was 132 snaps in coverage for every one reception he gave up.  How many snaps in coverage per game?  Lets guess about 30.  That means Hooker allowed a reception about once every 4 games.  

[ProblChld32]

16 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Why pass on Haha? Just curious....

 

I say pass on him partially due to the fact that he’ll command top dollar. And I feel like he’s already peaked. Amos in my opinion has a higher ceiling. That’s just my personal opinion from what I’ve seen from both Safety’s that’s not to say Haha isn’t a decent player because I do think he is.

[Colts_Fan12]

27 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Yeah put a safety back there that defenses arn't afraid of or who isn't in the right place on pass plays and you will be begging for Hooker back.  

 

Lets compare some safety coverage stats.

 

Landon Collins - 12 Games played - 4 Passes defensed - 0 Interceptions

 

Malik Hooker - 14 Games played - 4 Passes defensed - 2 Interceptions

 

Harrison Smith - 16 games played - 6 passes defensed - 3 interceptions

 

Derwin James - 16 games played - 13 passes defensed - 3 interceptions

 

Eric Weddle - 16 games played - 3 passes defensed - 0 interceptions

 

Eddie Jackson - 14 Games played - 15 passes defensed - 6 interceptions

 

Malcom Jenkins - 16 games played - 8 passes defensed - 1 interception

 

Jamal Adams - 16 games played - 12 passes defnesed - 1 interception

 

What I just posted there is all of the safeties that where named to the pro-bowl this year and Malik Hooker.

 

Now maybe Hooker isn't a pro-bowler, a lot of these guys are probably better in run support than Hooker is. (But given how good our DL and LB's as well as Geathers where at stopping the run, it's not like Hooker would have got many cracks at it.) 

 

But save for Eddie Jackson, you don't see any of them with big interception numbers.  Two of them don't have any interceptions at all, two of them only have 1 interception (less than Hooker's 2).   7 safeties named to the pro-bowl and four of them have less interceptions than Hooker.  Two of them only have 1 more interception than Hooker.

 

This should demonstrate the issue with determining a DB's value based on interception numbers.  Most likely, much like Hooker, the opposition avoided throwing at these guys a lot.  

 

Hooker as noted by PFF averaged I think it was 132 snaps in coverage for every one reception he gave up.  How many snaps in coverage per game?  Lets guess about 30.  That means Hooker allowed a reception about once every 4 games.  

You're wasting your time man there has been stats after stats posted in support of how good Hooker was yet people still complain over and over about ints

[ProblChld32]

I’m gonna have to disagree with you on that one. He has great Ball skills, good instincts and ended his collegiate career with 7 Ints. Which in all actuality it should be 10 but 3 were negated due to penalties. The guy can cover. 

[ProblChld32]

12 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

He can’t cover though.

 

I’m gonna have to disagree with you on that one. He has great Ball skills, good instincts and ended his collegiate career with 7 Ints. Which in all actuality it should be 10 but 3 were negated due to penalties. The guy can cover. 

[krunk]

My only complaint with Hooker is injuries and I feel sometimes he could show a bit more physicality, but overall I like the young fella.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Draft Taylor Rapp.

[shasta519]

23 minutes ago, Andrew Luck fan club said:

Draft Taylor Rapp.

 

Agree. He's my favorite SS in this draft. Though I do like a couple others. But I think Rapp fits this defense perfectly.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

 

I’m gonna have to disagree with you on that one. He has great Ball skills, good instincts and ended his collegiate career with 7 Ints. Which in all actuality it should be 10 but 3 were negated due to penalties. The guy can cover. 

 

This thread got really confusing...but if we are talking about Rapp...then I agree. 

 

But I don't think Rapp would play the deep zone. With a couple more pieces in place, I think the Colts will transition to more of  Cover 3 look...and Rapp will fit that perfectly...with the ability to man up TEs if need be...but also the ability to use his instincts and closing speed to make plays in the short-intermediate zones.

[ProblChld32]

38 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

This thread got really confusing...but if we are talking about Rapp...then I agree. 

 

But I don't think Rapp would play the deep zone. With a couple more pieces in place, I think the Colts will transition to more of  Cover 3 look...and Rapp will fit that perfectly...with the ability to man up TEs if need be...but also the ability to use his instincts and closing speed to make plays in the short-intermediate zones.

Lol yea the thread is kinda jumping over the place. I originally asked what everyone’s thought as to where the Safety position would go moving into next season. I suggested that I would like to see Mathias Farley brought back and given the nod to start if he returns to form, I’d also like to see the Colts let Geathers walk. Another member suggested we bring in a FA or Draft a Safety so I stayed if they do draft I wouldn’t mind bringing in Taylor Rapp as we have two second round picks and I can see him slated to be picked mid second round early third. 

[Scott Pennock]

10 hours ago, aaron11 said:

hes a free safety like hooker.  they could still play together, but our third level tackling wouldnt be ideal

Agreed, however, the way Eberflus structured the nickel/dime was to have two FS's playing deep halves while a SS covered the TE/RB/Flat Zones opposite Leonard.

 

It won't break my heart either way, but he may be a decent pick up for that reason.

[Dark Superman]

I think we need to add a solid starter next to Hooker. I like Farley, but coming off the bench and for depth.

[DerekDiggler]

On 2/13/2019 at 10:30 PM, MacDee1975 said:

 

I would.  I'd be extremely surprised.

SS is one of the top three priorities for this D.    Edge rush is #1.   Behind that is 3 tech and SS. 

 

if you have studs at those 3 positions you are moving in the right direction 

[Hoosiernsavga]

I don't want Collins for the price and he's not much different than Geathers. Both are not good in pass coverage. We can get a starting SS to play along side Hooker in the draft no problem. I'm all for resigning  Farley though for depth and he's very affordable. 

[CurBeatElite]

On 2/13/2019 at 1:20 PM, ProblChld32 said:

I was wondering what was everyone’s thoughts on the Safety position moving into next season. I know Geathers is set to be a FA and can move on and secure a larger contract elsewhere, which I personally wouldn’t mind as Geathers more often then not was Injured and not on the field. A person I wouldn’t mind seeing getting the nod opposite of Hooker is Mathias Farley. I’m a big supporter of this guy and feels like he has what it takes to be a starter in this league. I think a lot of us forgot about him since he went on IR early in the season. But in his short stint he played at a very High level and is an exceptionally better Cover safety than Geathers is , which you need in a Cover 2 Defense. I would like to see Geathers walk (IMO he shouldn’t be given a super large contract Atleast not from the colts) resign Mathias which likely won’t cost too much bring back Mitchell on a 1 year deal (his veteran leadership truly had a positive impact on the secondary). Lastly draft a safety to come in and compete as depth will certainly be needed as we saw at this position throughout the season. 

 

What are everyones thoughts on the position? 

 

First of all, I don't see how people make the argument that Geathers' major flaw is that he is injury prone and then suggest we instead rely on a guy who just missed the entire year on IR.  Farley is a good ST player and a serviceable back-up S in the NFL.  He's got a high motor and seems like a good teammate, but I would sure be worried going into the season with him as our projected starting S, especially since he is coming off a season-ending injury.

 

Second of all, Ballard loves Geathers.  He was named a team captain last year.  Ballard puts a lot of his decisions into the character of his players.  Geathers is obviously a Chris Ballard guy and is obviously well respected in the locker room.  Geathers also has more ability to play as a hybrid LB than any other S on our current roster.  I really doubt he goes anywhere.

 

I'll be surprised if we don't draft or bring in a FA S for competition's sake, but I fully expect Hooker and Geathers to be at the top of the depth chart for the Colts this coming season.

 

 

On 2/15/2019 at 12:18 PM, Valpo2004 said:

 

Yeah put a safety back there that defenses arn't afraid of or who isn't in the right place on pass plays and you will be begging for Hooker back.  

 

Lets compare some safety coverage stats.

 

Landon Collins - 12 Games played - 4 Passes defensed - 0 Interceptions

 

Malik Hooker - 14 Games played - 4 Passes defensed - 2 Interceptions

 

Harrison Smith - 16 games played - 6 passes defensed - 3 interceptions

 

Derwin James - 16 games played - 13 passes defensed - 3 interceptions

 

Eric Weddle - 16 games played - 3 passes defensed - 0 interceptions

 

Eddie Jackson - 14 Games played - 15 passes defensed - 6 interceptions

 

Malcom Jenkins - 16 games played - 8 passes defensed - 1 interception

 

Jamal Adams - 16 games played - 12 passes defnesed - 1 interception

 

What I just posted there is all of the safeties that where named to the pro-bowl this year and Malik Hooker.

 

Now maybe Hooker isn't a pro-bowler, a lot of these guys are probably better in run support than Hooker is. (But given how good our DL and LB's as well as Geathers where at stopping the run, it's not like Hooker would have got many cracks at it.) 

 

But save for Eddie Jackson, you don't see any of them with big interception numbers.  Two of them don't have any interceptions at all, two of them only have 1 interception (less than Hooker's 2).   7 safeties named to the pro-bowl and four of them have less interceptions than Hooker.  Two of them only have 1 more interception than Hooker.

 

This should demonstrate the issue with determining a DB's value based on interception numbers.  Most likely, much like Hooker, the opposition avoided throwing at these guys a lot.  

 

Hooker as noted by PFF averaged I think it was 132 snaps in coverage for every one reception he gave up.  How many snaps in coverage per game?  Lets guess about 30.  That means Hooker allowed a reception about once every 4 games.  

 

Yes.  As a DB and a FS, INTs are sometimes misleading.  If you're getting a lot of them, it usually means you are getting thrown at a lot.  If you're not getting a lot of them, it often means you're not getting thrown at.  In Hooker's case, I think his decrease in INT's from his rookie  year to year 2 are due to teams being afraid to throw at him.  He made multiple clutch plays when his number was called, but he does such a good job of shutting down his portion of the field that his number doesn't get called all that often.

 

Also, it usually takes almost 2 years for a player to regain full strength coming off the knee injury Hooker had.  I thought early in the season there were times when he looked a little slow/rusty but thought his speed looked much better later in the season.  With another full offseason to recover (and another year of football under his belt), I think he's going to continue to improve his play on the field.

[a06cc]

On 2/13/2019 at 5:06 PM, DougDew said:

As far as FS, I know Hooker gets a lot of praise for doing what he does off screen and off the stat sheet, but I'm skeptical that the praise is worth it.  I don't know how high of a draft pick or how much salary you need to pay a FS to do virtually nothing else other than to be in the right place on pass plays.  Maybe that's a more rare and gifted thing than I think it is.  I simply don't know. 

 

The rest of the safeties are backups.  I think they are good enough to not devote a lot of capital this offseason to replace them.  If a great SS falls out of a tree and becomes available, then I can see spending the capital.

Hooker’s health is a concern as we move forward. He needs to have a complete season. The ability is there. I’m not going to deny what he does.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, a06cc said:

Hooker’s health is a concern as we move forward. He needs to have a complete season. The ability is there. I’m not going to deny what he does.

I'm not sure what you mean by deny?

 

What does he do, exactly?