Joe Flacco to be traded to the Broncos

[BleedBlu8792]

4 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

John Elway leaves Denver's front office when he wants to...

He's a 'made man' in Denver.

Its not like other situations

 

You can believe that. Outside of his years with Manning, they have been very average. 5-11 and 6-10 the last 2 years with virtually the same teams he had with Manning isn't a good look. Fans are growing impatient, they couldn't even sell out their game against the Rams, and NO ONE is invincible at their position, regardless of who they are, when "mediocre" continues being the end result. Let him go below .500 again with that team and see where all the fingers get pointed at.

[oldunclemark]

2 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

You can believe that. Outside of his years with Manning, they have been very average. 5-11 and 6-10 the last 2 years with virtually the same teams he had with Manning isn't a good look. Fans are growing impatient, they couldn't even sell out their game against the Rams, and NO ONE is invincible at their position, regardless of who they are, when "mediocre" continues being the end result. Let him go below .500 again with that team and see where all the fingers get pointed at.

That's all talk

He's John Elway....7 times in the Super Bowl.....he's there as long as he wants to be

Magic Johnson isn't going to be fired if the Lakers don't make the playoffs

..and he wont be fired if they don't make it next year, either.

They are 'made men'.....doesnt matter what fingers are pointed

 

.and ..Denver had a very good draft last year...6 starters and a Pro Bowler in Bradley Chubb...

That's the GM, too.

 

And getting Flacco is a bold move

 

[krunk]

14 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

That's all talk

He's John Elway....7 times in the Super Bowl.....he's there as long as he wants to be

Magic Johnson isn't going to be fired if the Lakers don't make the playoffs

..and he wont be fired if they don't make it next year, either.

They are 'made men'.....doesnt matter what fingers are pointed

 

.and ..Denver had a very good draft last year...6 starters and a Pro Bowler in Bradley Chubb...

That's the GM, too.

 

And getting Flacco is a bold move

 

Just playing Devils Advocate here but Mike Shanahan seemed like a fixture in Denver for some time also.  But eventually they called the Grim Reaper on him.   I do agree they will give Elway some rope though.

[crazycolt1]

20 minutes ago, krunk said:

Just playing Devils Advocate here but Mike Shanahan seemed like a fixture in Denver for some time also.  But eventually they called the Grim Reaper on him.   I do agree they will give Elway some rope though.

Shanahan was a head coach and Elway is a vice president. 

If the power struggle plays out where  Bowlen-Wallace does take control I highly doubt Elway would be fired.

I am not sure what Joe Ellis will want to do. 

[Roger]

A 4th round pick for Flacco should get those who imagine reaping draft riches from trading Brisset more grounded.

[The Old Crow]

In defense of Joe, the Ravens never had much of a running game after Ray Rice, with the exception of one good year Forsett had. The receiving corps was poor , mostly full of old retreads . 

The offensive line was mediocre to good, but certainly not great. 

That being said, part of the problem was Joe’s salary. Ozzie didn’t want to give him that huge contract, but Joe bet on himself, helped to win a Super Bowl , and got paid. That lessened the talent you could put around him. 

Also, Joe never did off season workouts with tight ends and receivers, like Brady and Manning did. Although I laid him for spending time with the family in NJ, when you get 120 million, you need to put that extra effort in your job. 

The bottom line is he was the best QB in Ravens history, but he could have been better had he put more time into preparation, and the Ravens would have put a little better offensive talent around him. 

[The Old Crow]

Just now, The Old Crow said:

In defense of Joe, the Ravens never had much of a running game after Ray Rice, with the exception of one good year Forsett had. The receiving corps was poor , mostly full of old retreads . 

The offensive line was mediocre to good, but certainly not great. 

That being said, part of the problem was Joe’s salary. Ozzie didn’t want to give him that huge contract, but Joe bet on himself, helped to win a Super Bowl , and got paid. That lessened the talent you could put around him. 

Also, Joe never did off season workouts with tight ends and receivers, like Brady and Manning did. Although I laud him for spending time with the family in NJ, when you get 120 million, you need to put that extra effort in your job. 

The bottom line is he was the best QB in Ravens history, but he could have been better had he put more time into preparation, and the Ravens would have put a little better offensive talent around him. 

 

[oldunclemark]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 1:39 PM, krunk said:

Just playing Devils Advocate here but Mike Shanahan seemed like a fixture in Denver for some time also.  But eventually they called the Grim Reaper on him.   I do agree they will give Elway some rope though.

I hear you but Elway was supposedly on the 'hot seat' when he traded Tebow and signed a 'rag armed' sherrif..

 

….Denver drafted 6 starters last year and they have nine picks this time around.

….the No.1 available coach was the 'Mad Scientist' who built the 'Monsters'

Elway called him in and he signed.

 

….even if he wasn't the winningest playoff player and winningest playoff GM in the history of the franchise, he wouldn't be fired on his record.

 

 

 

 

 

 

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 5:05 PM, Roger said:

A 4th round pick for Flacco should get those who imagine reaping draft riches from trading Brisset more grounded.

Tell 'em.  Roger

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Denver drafted 6 starters last year and they have nine picks this time around.

….the No.1 available coach was the 'Mad Scientist' who built the 'Monsters'

Elway called him in and he signed.

 

Denver had a really good draft last year. A good draft does wonders -- just ask the Saints with their fantastic 2017 draft. I hope Hamilton gets to play a lot more next year.

 

I wonder if Elway regrets cutting Sloter?

[oldunclemark]

Just now, NFLfan said:

 

Denver had a really good draft last year. A good draft does wonders -- just ask the Saints with their fantastic 2017 draft. I hope Hamilton gets to play a lot more next year.

 

I wonder if Elway regrets cutting Sloter?

I think he probably does...…...

They kept trying to make Paxton Lynch an NFL QB....

Sloter's going to start somebody for somebody

 

 

[NFLfan]

52 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Sloter's going to start somebody for somebody.

 

I hope it is the Vikings. 

[krunk]

4 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

I hear you but Elway was supposedly on the 'hot seat' when he traded Tebow and signed a 'rag armed' sherrif..

 

….Denver drafted 6 starters last year and they have nine picks this time around.

….the No.1 available coach was the 'Mad Scientist' who built the 'Monsters'

Elway called him in and he signed.

 

….even if he wasn't the winningest playoff player and winningest playoff GM in the history of the franchise, he wouldn't be fired on his record.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tell 'em.  Roger

 Im wondering who they are planning on grooming behind Flacco? And will that turn into another Osweiler situation?

[Dark Superman]

Denver clearly is no longer a team that's one good QB shy of winning it all. Flacco is an upgrade, but they need to do a lot of work if they want to make it back to the Super Bowl.

[oldunclemark]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 1:10 PM, krunk said:

 Im wondering who they are planning on grooming behind Flacco? And will that turn into another Osweiler situation?

Flacco has 3 years left on his deal...

….If he isn't good, they can cut him and sign somebody else.

They're not grooming anybody right now....

 

Whoever they bring in or draft could succeed or fail.

[oldunclemark]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 3:08 PM, DarkSuperman said:

Denver clearly is no longer a team that's one good QB shy of winning it all. Flacco is an upgrade, but they need to do a lot of work if they want to make it back to the Super Bowl.

Everybody does.

That's why you have draft choices and free agents

[krunk]

14 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Flacco has 3 years left on his deal...

….If he isn't good, they can cut him and sign somebody else.

They're not grooming anybody right now....

 

Whoever they bring in or draft could succeed or fail.

Early rumor mill says they like Drew Lock.

[GoPats]

 

Was Flacco really an upgrade though? Aside from one outstanding postseason run, he hasn't done a whole lot in the league. 

 

 

[CurBeatElite]

On 2/13/2019 at 11:06 AM, BleedBlu8792 said:

Is Elway trying to get his * thrown out of Denver on purpose?

 

I think Elway is trying to save his * in Denver (not like he needs to). Flacco at this point in his career is a more dangerous QB than Peyton was when Peyton won a SB in Denver.  Denver's D is showing signs that it's gonna be very good again next year.  There are not a lot of good QBs (at least not NFL ready from day 1) and I think Flacco fits what this team needs right now.  A guy with a big arm, who can win tough games, who rarely makes costly decisions.

 

On 2/13/2019 at 12:12 PM, Superman said:

 

He might fit the Broncos' offense better than Keenum, but they're production has been basically the same over the last three years. And Flacco is probably the most aggressively average QB of the last few years, who has started to look like an old, declining player.

 

I don't really see Flacco as an upgrade. I get that Keenum wasn't good enough, but to make this move for a highly paid veteran, and eat $7m for Keenum, and you still need your QB of the future? I don't get it.

 

I think Flacco's offense had been getting worse around him the past 3-4 years. 

 

The last time they went to the playoffs (2014) Flacco had Steve Smith Sr. and Torrey Smith as his primary WRs (both guys could stretch the field and utilize Flacco's arm strength).  He also had Forsett at RB and Owen Daniels at TE (both average or better).   

 

In 2015 (Flacco missed the last 6 games of the season), their best WR was Kamar Aiken (Steve Smith also ended his year on IR).  Their starting RB was Terrence Magee (I hardly even remember him... but Forsett was also IRed that year).  And their TE's were Konrad Reuland and Maxx Williams (Dennis Pitta was IRed).   A lot of injuries on that team and very little offensive depth or talent.

 

In 2016 Flacco had arguably his best year in the NFL and threw for 4,317 yards.  He had Mike Wallace, an aging Steve Smith Sr., and Kamar Aiken as his WRs .. a bunch of no-name RBs .. and Dennis Pitta as his main TE.  Again, not a ton of talent, but at least he had some speed guys that could open up the field for him.

 

In 2017, Flacco's best target was Benjamin Watson at TE.  His next two best targets were the average Mike Wallace and Jeremy Maclin who missed 1/4 of the season with injury.  He did not have much help at RB (Danny Woodhead?).

 

In 2018, Flacco was on pace to throw for >4,300 yards and had an 84.2 rating before his injury.  While I think Crabtree is beyond his prime at this point, it seems like it was the first time in a while where he had a WR he really trusted.

 

I'm not saying Flacco has been stellar.  But I don't think he's really starting to look like an old declining player.  If not for injury last year, he would have had one of the best 3 statistical years in his career.  

 

Additionally, Flacco has a SB MVP under his belt and has won multiple big games in his career.  Keenum doesn't have that.  I also think if Emmanuel Sanders can come back healthy, he and Cortland Sutton (who has the physical set to perfectly compliment Flacco) will be WRs that will really rejuvenate Flacco.  And if Philip Lindsay comes back to form, Flacco will be playing with arguably the best RB he's ever played with.

 

On 2/13/2019 at 2:29 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He put in many good years with the Ravens and got a Ring. Is he a Hall of Famer = EASY NO, but he was good for many years. How he works in Denver at the Age 34, not sure?

 

I don't think it's as easy of a no as you think.  Flacco will surpass 40,000 passing yards this year (most likely moving into 18th all-time in yards passed for, surpassing Unitas, Montana and Kerry Collins).  He is the only QB in NFL history to go to the playoffs his first 5 years in the league.  He has a SB MVP.  If he has three more 3,000 yard seasons, he'll be in the top 15 all-time NFL passing yards (if he has 4, he'll be in the 50,000 yard club with the likes of only about 10 other  QBs in NFL history -- this is very doable for him if he stays healthy).  If he can retire with individual numbers like that and tack on another SB ring, I think it'd be pretty hard to keep him out of the HOF, even if he doesn't have a ton of all-pro or pro-bowls on his resume. 

 

On 2/14/2019 at 6:47 AM, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

If Fangio's D in Denver is as good as it was in Chicago he won't need an elite QB. He'll just need a good game manager who doesn't lose the game for the Broncos. I totally agree that they could do a lot worse than Joe Flacco.

 

Denver's D has potential to be close to as good as Chicago.  They had 3 pro-bowlers. Undoubtedly, Chubb is going to get better... and they have 9 draft picks.  They're going to be a very scary D next year.

 

On 2/14/2019 at 7:11 AM, oldunclemark said:

True but misleading

Obviously, Flacco has started for a decade and has won multiple playoff games.

 

But I know what you're saying.

Flacco couldn't get his job back in Baltimore

He's old and coming of a year when he was hurt

 

Baltimore also drafted a first round pick QB.  I think the plan was to let him develop a while, but Flacco went down.  Jackson brought in a style of play that hasn't really been seen in the NFL since RG3 (IMO, it took a lot of teams by surprise and I think after having some film on Jackson, he'll continously get worse).  IMO, the Ravens will struggle with Jackson as their QB next year and Harbaugh will have a hard time keeping his job over there.

 

On 2/14/2019 at 9:23 AM, King Colt said:

Bottom line on Denver's chances to win their division in 2019 are zero or less than zero.

 

Not so sure.  Mahommes is a freak, but I doubt he replicates what he did last year again.  There is a good chance KC loses Ford on D.  I don't see them being better much better next year than they were last year (though, I don't see them getting much worse).  Rivers is another year older and I don't see the Chargers getting much better.  I have no faith in OAK.  IMO, the 2 teams with shots at the AFC West are Denver and KC.

 

On 2/18/2019 at 1:33 PM, GoPats said:

 

Was Flacco really an upgrade though? Aside from one outstanding postseason run, he hasn't done a whole lot in the league. 

 

 

Flacco is the only QB in NFL history to lead a team to the playoffs his first 5 years in the league (starting as a rookie).  He has a superbowl MVP.  He is 22nd all-time in NFL in yards (and still has a few seasons left).  He will be in the top 20 of all-time after this season.  He has thrown for >3,500 yards in 7 of his 11 seasons and he has only missed time in 2 of those 11 seasons.  He has had a very good NFL career.

[lollygagger8]

[Superman]

On 2/20/2019 at 6:19 PM, CurBeatElite said:

Flacco is the only QB in NFL history to lead a team to the playoffs his first 5 years in the league (starting as a rookie).  He has a superbowl MVP.  He is 22nd all-time in NFL in yards (and still has a few seasons left).  He will be in the top 20 of all-time after this season.  He has thrown for >3,500 yards in 7 of his 11 seasons and he has only missed time in 2 of those 11 seasons.  He has had a very good NFL career.

 

He's also aggressively average, and has been so his entire career, with the exception of a five week period in early 2013 (and even then, the best thing he did was not turn the ball over). He has had a good career, but he was never really a difference-making QB, and he's definitely not a difference-making QB now.

[CurBeatElite]

On 2/22/2019 at 12:23 PM, Superman said:

 

He's also aggressively average, and has been so his entire career, with the exception of a five week period in early 2013 (and even then, the best thing he did was not turn the ball over). He has had a good career, but he was never really a difference-making QB, and he's definitely not a difference-making QB now.

 

His playoff performance the year they won the superbowl was much more than average.  He threw 11 TDs and had 0 turnovers with his lowest QBR in those 4 games being a 106.2 in the conference championship.  That team was known for its defense, but Flacco was undoubtedly a difference making QB during that run.

 

He also still has top 5 arm strength in the NFL (the only 1 QB I can think of who undoubtedly has a stronger arm is Josh Allen in Buffalo --- I think Mahommes and Matt Stafford may also have stronger arms).  With the right weapons around him, Flacco can still be a dangerous QB in this league.  He was on pace to throw for 4,382 yards last season.  I think any QB who is throwing for more than 4,000 yards in a season certainly has some sort of difference-making aspect to him.

 

He may not be considered a difference-maker at the level of some other NFL QBs (like Luck, Rodgers, Mahommes, Brady, Brees, etc.) but he can still make a difference with his big arm.  That said, I don't think the Broncos brought him in to be a difference-maker.  I think they're counting on their D to get back to the form of their SB winning D w/ Peyton, who was really nothing more than a game manager for the Broncos the year they won it (and he wasn't really thriving there, throwing 9 TDs and 17 INTs in the regular season and 2 TDs and 1 INT in the post-season).  Flacco, undoubtedly at this point in his career has more firepower and difference-making ability than Peyton did back in 2015. 

 

 

 

 

[Superman]

12 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

His playoff performance the year they won the superbowl was much more than average.  He threw 11 TDs and had 0 turnovers with his lowest QBR in those 4 games being a 106.2 in the conference championship.  That team was known for its defense, but Flacco was undoubtedly a difference making QB during that run.

 

 

I mentioned his SB run as the exception. That was six years ago. Since then, he's been right back to the same Joe Flacco that he's always been, outside of the SB run.

 

Quote

 

He also still has top 5 arm strength in the NFL (the only 1 QB I can think of who undoubtedly has a stronger arm is Josh Allen in Buffalo --- I think Mahommes and Matt Stafford may also have stronger arms).  With the right weapons around him, Flacco can still be a dangerous QB in this league.  He was on pace to throw for 4,382 yards last season.  I think any QB who is throwing for more than 4,000 yards in a season certainly has some sort of difference-making aspect to him.

 

He may not be considered a difference-maker at the level of some other NFL QBs (like Luck, Rodgers, Mahommes, Brady, Brees, etc.) but he can still make a difference with his big arm.  That said, I don't think the Broncos brought him in to be a difference-maker.  I think they're counting on their D to get back to the form of their SB winning D w/ Peyton, who was really nothing more than a game manager for the Broncos the year they won it (and he wasn't really thriving there, throwing 9 TDs and 17 INTs in the regular season and 2 TDs and 1 INT in the post-season).  Flacco, undoubtedly at this point in his career has more firepower and difference-making ability than Peyton did back in 2015. 

 

 

Throwing for 4,000 yards is nothing special. But in nine full seasons, Flacco has only done it once. And for as good as he can throw the deep ball at times, the fact that his yards/attempt and TD percentage are so low -- like, bottom ten among qualifiers, basically every year -- speaks to the fact that he's not out there making plays on a regular basis. He has an average completion percentage and passer rating. In the six years six the SB run, he's helped the Ravens get to the playoffs just once. He's the epitome of average.

 

I also think the value of his arm strength is overstated. He can definitely throw the deep ball, but he doesn't throw the ball with velocity and hit tight windows in the intermediate areas, which is where arm strength is actually valuable. He doesn't belong in the conversation with guys like Mahomes, who zips the ball around the field, not just throws the ball past the deepest defender.

 

(And not that it has anything to do with Flacco, but Manning was hurt in 2015, running a new offense that made little sense for a 39 year old QB with limited mobility. He came in the last game of the season and made a HUGE difference for the Broncos, then he took control of the offense in the playoffs, including helping the team get the lead on the Patriots so the defense could do what it was meant to do. Broken down and unable to drive the ball down the field, 2015 playoffs Peyton Manning was easily more of a difference maker than Flacco has been for his entire career, outside of the 2012 playoffs.)

 

My thing is, if they are intending to let the defense carry the team, I'm not sure why Flacco is any better for them than Keenum would be. I can appreciate that Flacco has a better deep ball, but what about the other 90% of the throws? I don't see Flacco making a difference for them, and they still need their QB of the future, so it's basically a lateral move that is probably going to cost them a few million dollars and a draft pick. 

[NFLfan]

On 2/14/2019 at 7:02 AM, oldunclemark said:

I feel bad for Case but well....6-10.

 

Case may start for Washington. Denver traded him there today.