In 5 Years, Hopefully We Aren't Talking About What We Could've Had

[Portage Coltfans]

That is like any product, if it's not good, you could lose your clientele. So for Irsay, he's done what he thinks will keep his product strong. if he gets it wrong, he's in danger of losing a lot. Thankfully he probably has a few years to get it right, as MOST of the fans understand the nature of the NFL......it's made to be circular and to stop continual success. Maybe if you gave him a chance......or maybe you just want him to fail?

Want to fail is harsh, I'm pointing out that he's escaped being at fault for what happened to his team in 2010. How can people blame polian/caldwell and let Irsay had a free pass? as I said previously, he wouldn't be our CEO if he wasn't the owner this year.

[Portage Coltfans]

The beauty of being the pessimist is that if Irsay succeeds with Luck, there is no way the team can be perfect, so there is always something new to gripe about. If this decision fails, though, gripers get to play the "see how smart I was... I told you all this would happen" card. Win-win.

He the Colts win a superbowl, what could a pessimist say?

[schwamm]

He the Colts win a superbowl, what could a pessimist say?

I'm sure they'll celebrate, then find more to complain about. After the '06 season, there were still plenty of complainers on the fan forum... griping about who was cut, what Polian should have done in the draft, etc.

[chad72]

I feel that most Colts fans would eventually want Irsay and the Colts to succeed. It is just in the short term that the team that was endeared to them due to the presence of players like Peyton, Clark, Freeney etc. is going through an identity crisis in the minds and hearts of Colts fans. Some of them will be willing to sit through 1 year, and some through 2 years of having a losing record. By year 3, however, the expectations will get to the demand level that the team get to the playoffs with Luck at the helm. Right or not, Andrew Luck has had a bulls eye etched on his back with respect to expectations and demands. I hope Andrew is given everything necessary to meet those expectations.

Just like Cam Newton realized there is only one way to shut critics up, Andrew Luck should take up the gauntlet the same way and I hope he does.

[Portage Coltfans]

I'm sure they'll celebrate, then find more to complain about. After the '06 season, there were still plenty of complainers on the fan forum... griping about who was cut, what Polian should have done in the draft, etc.

, I guess they were right about who they should've drafted in april of 2007 ;)

I dont think saying who you would've drafted makes someone a whiner/complainer.

[schwamm]

, I guess they were right about who they should've drafted in april of 2007 ;)

I dont think saying who you would've drafted makes someone a whiner/complainer.

No, I suspect the whining and complaining is enough to define them as whiner/complainer

[CanuckColtsFan]

It's hard for me to say... because I was certain Manning would stay but, you need a franchise Qb then you find all the other parts. I would have preferred keeping Manning and trading the pick.

We are rebuilding and starting at a franchise Qb is the right way to do it. We invested heavily in our O-line last year and both those guys look promising. After we draft Luck it's time to go after D-line and maybe one more guy on O-line. Once we've got that in order then you go after the other pieces.

[Portage Coltfans]

No, I suspect the whining and complaining is enough to define them as whiner/complainer

true

[jwilli69]

I'm sorry, but you can not compare the situation of drafting PM to this scenerio. they are absolutely different. Letting Harghbaugh go vs Manning.

This isn't pure emotions, I do believe that a restructured contract with some new youth on D (from trading Luck) and trading some guys like freeney, we could've had great teams for the next 3-4 seasons, and still used a high draft pick for a manning replacement.

I don't disagree you could have restructered the PM contract and maybe had 3-4 years of opportunity. That is the "i want it now" crowd and not having a long term approach in your thinking. This is what you see with youth in this country now anyways, everyone wants the easy way and wants it now. Well solid business models don't operate this way and survive. If Luck was not available with our pick, I would agree with your scenario of trading out the pick and building up the core and look for a replacement later. Mannings and potentially Lucks do not come around very often and most certainly not available if your picking 25-32. Again, look at the teams who have went to the SB and where have they picked their QB's at, with exception of New england, most were high draft picks and even Aaron Rogers was a wierd fluke of events. I just don't view this scenario in such gotta have it now terms.

Btw, why is it so different in Harbaugh vs Manning?

[braveheartcolt]

Want to fail is harsh, I'm pointing out that he's escaped being at fault for what happened to his team in 2010. How can people blame polian/caldwell and let Irsay had a free pass? as I said previously, he wouldn't be our CEO if he wasn't the owner this year.

When management fails, the buck has to stop and start somewhere. Caldwell and Polian were the 'Football Experts' and failed. Irsay is just holding the purse. Sure Irsay should have fired Polian a few years before, and should not have sanctioned Caldwell as HC, but I suspect it was his 'Football Experts' (Dungy & Polian and maybe Manning) that convinced him otherwise on that one.

Now if Griggy and Pags fail miserably, then I'd agree Irsay's head should be on the block if it wasn't his team. But it is, so it's all a moot point...

[GoColts8818]

no I don't mean quit being a fan,

I am a Cubs fan as well, I think the Cubs have moved on from being the "lovable losers". Most fans want to see them win, this is clear by last years attendence. It's unfair to call those fans, fairweather fans because not attending games is the only way the cubs would know we aren't happy. and it worked! In the past fans would go to games no matter how bad the cubs were, just to go to a cubs game. Now, fans want to win and they listened to attendence. I'm looking forward to April!

As for time for the Colts, if we dont' see results with luck in (X number) of years, when do fans become saltly and stop supporting. I'm not talking about you specifically. I'm looking for the entire fanbase as an answer, because if we aren't winning, they wont go to games.

and for years the cubs were run that way because their owners were happy just to turn a profit on them they now have a new owner who like irsay isn't go to be happy with losing so long as they turn a profit. Irsay wants to win so if this rebuild doesn't work he will try again till they do win. Of course if they start to lose for too long fans will stop going all one has to do is look at the pacers to see that. With that said though I don't know what message you want sent to irsay because he already wants to win. If it doesn't work it doesn't work and you try again that's all you can do.

[chad72]

Would it be a shocker for most if the Colts traded Luck for a big bounty of picks after all that has transpired now? Just throwing it out there .

[jemack]

Well, that certainly would be some trick considering Weeden is 28 and will be 29 in october.

what he has in age, he shows in materity on the field.

[Balzer40]

what he has in age, he shows in materity on the field.

Now wait a minute, just like Luck, he hasn't proven a thing yet and Luck has shown a great deal of maturity himself for a kid of 22 yrs. old. I think I'll take my chances for the Colts future with a 22 yr. old instead of a rookie QB that will be contemplating retirement in 6 yrs..

[jemack]

Now wait a minute, just like Luck, he hasn't proven a thing yet and Luck has shown a great deal of maturity himself for a kid of 22 yrs. old. I think I'll take my chances for the Colts future with a 22 yr. old instead of a rookie QB that will be contemplating retirement in 6 yrs..

Never said he would be successful in the NFL. He has the same chance for success as Luck IMO. He'll be a quality QB for 7 or 8 yrs. By that time, the Colts can actually plan for his replacement. Oh, and I'd love Cleveland's 2 #1's, their 2nd and a 1st next year.

[braveheartcolt]

Would it be a shocker for most if the Colts traded Luck for a big bounty of picks after all that has transpired now? Just throwing it out there .

And would it be a shocker for most if we did that, and all our bounty of picks weren't very good? Just throwing that out there as well....

[Gavin]

what it all amounts to is simple, WHATS DONE IS DONE, Jim wants to win, the players we had with the exception of manning were all expendable, and manning wasnt willing to restructure, do you all reall REALLY think Jim would have said BYE to Manning? regardless what happened we wont know, its time to look to the future or miss out

[sb2001]

i completely agree. Our team would have been rebuilt in one move and the next three years would have set us for the next 15. Oh well...I guess it's time to be mediocre for a while.

I agree with your agreement!

[chad72]

And would it be a shocker for most if we did that, and all our bounty of picks weren't very good? Just throwing that out there as well....

Yes, it would be a shocker. The odds of a whole bounty of picks across drafts ALL being bad, if you have the hired the right talent evaluator, is lesser than the odds of one hyped draft pick in Andrew Luck being bad. Not that I believe that Luck will be a bust but just based on math, I like the odds of the bounty of picks.

Knowing how much the Redskins gave up for the 2nd pick, if you knew what you could get more for Luck, would you take the chance on a young Matt Flynn that knows the speed of the NFL and take the picks to rebuild, would you? I do not feel it is an unreasonable question to ask at all.

It may not happen that way but it is a question whose answer does not still involve Peyton in our rebuilding and hence I thought I'd ask. One does not have to be perceived as pro-Irsay or anti-Irsay to ask that question.

[Jaric]

Want to fail is harsh, I'm pointing out that he's escaped being at fault for what happened to his team in 2010. How can people blame polian/caldwell and let Irsay had a free pass? as I said previously, he wouldn't be our CEO if he wasn't the owner this year.

You want me to "blame" Irsay for the Colts going 10-6?

[Jules]

[Portage Coltfans]

You want me to "blame" Irsay for the Colts going 10-6?

i think I meant 2011

[chrisfarley]

yep, if luck is a bust then we will be rebuilding for over a decade

i really can't see him being a bust or ANYWHERE close to it. He's got the football pedigree, the smarts, the skills, ...... everything a QB needs ,,,he's even 6 foot 4.

[GoColts8818]

You want me to "blame" Irsay for the Colts going 10-6?

Hey well you know they didn't win 12 games totally unacceptable he should be forced to sell the team to someone if he can't have his GM put together a team that wins 12 games a year!

For the record I am being sarcastic.

[Balzer40]

Hey well you know they didn't win 12 games totally unacceptable he should be forced to sell the team to someone if he can't have his GM put together a team that wins 12 games a year!

For the record I am being sarcastic.

The sad part is, there are about 5-10 posters here that would say something like this and actually be serious. Everybody knows who they are and should continue to just ignore them.

[jwilli69]

Yes, it would be a shocker. The odds of a whole bounty of picks across drafts ALL being bad, if you have the hired the right talent evaluator, is lesser than the odds of one hyped draft pick in Andrew Luck being bad. Not that I believe that Luck will be a bust but just based on math, I like the odds of the bounty of picks.

Knowing how much the Redskins gave up for the 2nd pick, if you knew what you could get more for Luck, would you take the chance on a young Matt Flynn that knows the speed of the NFL and take the picks to rebuild, would you? I do not feel it is an unreasonable question to ask at all.

It may not happen that way but it is a question whose answer does not still involve Peyton in our rebuilding and hence I thought I'd ask. One does not have to be perceived as pro-Irsay or anti-Irsay to ask that question.

If the Colts were to do the trade for a bounty, it would have to be better than what the skins got, perhaps 3-#1"s and a few #2"s + something. It is not an unreasonable question, in fact it sparks good debate. I would however feel that if they were going to go the trade route and then pick up a Matt Flynn, they would have just held onto PM and traded the pick for a boatload of picks. Getting a prospect like Luck is so much more rare than a possiblility like a MAtt Flynn. Every year there seems to be a Matt Flynn pop up on the radar and then gets 100 million dollars to fail. Look at Cassell for an example. If Matt Flynn would have a little more tape to look over and was as successful as he was in that ONE game, perhaps you do that. I really can't see any way the team would select Matt Flynn over Luck for the future as both have flop potential but Luck will be cheaper and have a longer career. I just can't realistically see it happen but if it did, I would trust the team has thoroughly researched the pros and cons of all 3 scenarios.

[Portage Coltfans]

If the Colts were to do the trade for a bounty, it would have to be better than what the skins got, perhaps 3-#1"s and a few #2"s + something. It is not an unreasonable question, in fact it sparks good debate. I would however feel that if they were going to go the trade route and then pick up a Matt Flynn, they would have just held onto PM and traded the pick for a boatload of picks. Getting a prospect like Luck is so much more rare than a possiblility like a MAtt Flynn. Every year there seems to be a Matt Flynn pop up on the radar and then gets 100 million dollars to fail. Look at Cassell for an example. If Matt Flynn would have a little more tape to look over and was as successful as he was in that ONE game, perhaps you do that. I really can't see any way the team would select Matt Flynn over Luck for the future as both have flop potential but Luck will be cheaper and have a longer career. I just can't realistically see it happen but if it did, I would trust the team has thoroughly researched the pros and cons of all 3 scenarios.

It's quite possible that a QB in 2013 and 2014 will have a better career than luck. If we got what the Rams have, we could still have drafted a 1 st round qb in the next year or so and still have had peyton for 3-4 more years and add on top of that a few more high draft picks. Thats not a bad scenerio at all.

[jwilli69]

It's quite possible that a QB in 2013 and 2014 will have a better career than luck. If we got what the Rams have, we could still have drafted a 1 st round qb in the next year or so and still have had peyton for 3-4 more years and add on top of that a few more high draft picks. Thats not a bad scenerio at all.

Yeah I suppose that there will be some great player that is deemed to be as good as Luck is projected but oh wait, that would probably require the first pick in the draft, which is funny, cause that is what we have now. The storm doesn't get anymore perfect than this right now but once every how many years? 1997 was the last year it happened for us.

[EdBriggs]

Even without Manning or Luck this team could have an amazing chance to build up youth in every position, not just QB

You see kids, this is how you think when you are dropped on your head as a baby.

[unitas-we-stand]

everyone can back and forth with the what ifs, but what it really comes down to is how Luck will handle the pros. if any of you guys have watched Luck play he has the same love for the game and strive that manning did when he came in, not saying hes the same caliber but hes got the talent to learn. we need a youngster to bring us past a 3-4 year winning streak to another beautiful 14 year. give it time

[Malakai432]

When management fails, the buck has to stop and start somewhere. Caldwell and Polian were the 'Football Experts' and failed.

I wouldn't say Polian failed at all. Polians decisions gave us Manning/Edge instead of Leaf/Williams. Caldwell can't even be factored into the equation because Dungy basically laid him upon us in an arrangement the organization agreed upon. Unfortunately every reign has an end, and it was time. In the end Polian was head strong and had a strong say in how the Colts ran themselves, but was not a failure. He's a HOF manager.

[braveheartcolt]

It's quite possible that a QB in 2013 and 2014 will have a better career than luck. If we got what the Rams have, we could still have drafted a 1 st round qb in the next year or so and still have had peyton for 3-4 more years and add on top of that a few more high draft picks. Thats not a bad scenerio at all.

Well, you've won me round with that piece of excellent logic. No more verbal sparrings from me sir.

[braveheartcolt]

I wouldn't say Polian failed at all. Polians decisions gave us Manning/Edge instead of Leaf/Williams. Caldwell can't even be factored into the equation because Dungy basically laid him upon us in an arrangement the organization agreed upon. Unfortunately every reign has an end, and it was time. In the end Polian was head strong and had a strong say in how the Colts ran themselves, but was not a failure. He's a HOF manager.

He failed during the last few years of his tenure. Like other greats, they fade. He outlived his welcome and it was time to go. If winning a toss-up betwwen Manning & Leaf is the difference between A HOF Manager and a bust, it's a pretty fine line..

I wouldn't say Polian failed at all. Polians decisions gave us Manning/Edge instead of Leaf/Williams. Caldwell can't even be factored into the equation because Dungy basically laid him upon us in an arrangement the organization agreed upon. Unfortunately every reign has an end, and it was time. In the end Polian was head strong and had a strong say in how the Colts ran themselves, but was not a failure. He's a HOF manager.

[Malakai432]

Don't forget he was the Bills GM who went to mutiple super bowls. It wasn't just his choice between choosing Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning that made him a HOF GM.

Ohh I couldn't quote you btw because you had your quotes all messed up

I kid I kid

[GoColts8818]

Don't forget he was the Bills GM who went to mutiple super bowls. It wasn't just his choice between choosing Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning that made him a HOF GM.

and won a division and got to the NFC title game with an expansion team in only it's second year.

[Malakai432]

and won a division and got to the NFC title game with an expansion team in only it's second year.

Indeed

[Portage Coltfans]

Yeah I suppose that there will be some great player that is deemed to be as good as Luck is projected but oh wait, that would probably require the first pick in the draft, which is funny, cause that is what we have now. The storm doesn't get anymore perfect than this right now but once every how many years? 1997 was the last year it happened for us.

rodgers,brady, big ben, brees all have superbowl rings and were not the #1 overal QB. In fact, besides Peyton i'm blanking on the last one to win an superbowl in the past 6 years or more other than eli. I guess you don't need a #1 pick.

thanks frog

[Portage Coltfans]

You see kids, this is how you think when you are dropped on your head as a baby.

classy, why don't you back up your insults with logic of your own?

[UndecidedFrog]

rodgers,brady,eli, big ben, brees all have superbowl rings and were not the #1 overal QB. In fact, besides Peyton i'm blanking on the last one to win an superbowl in the past 6 years or more. I guess you don't need a #1 pick.

Eli was a #1 overall draft pick, picked by SD and traded to the Giants.

[Portage Coltfans]

Eli was a #1 overall draft pick, picked by SD and traded to the Giants.

thanks frog