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Ballard continues to lay the blueprint


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On 2/20/2019 at 9:40 AM, Mr_486lo said:

Drafting a WR early doesn't make a team "soft". Our team just played "soft" when it mattered. That's it in a nutshell. Bill Polian drafted offensive talent but sucked at producing defensive talent. Nor would he ever give us anyone in free agency. With the team Ballard is building now, drafting a WR early or late won't hurt either way. Our defense is young and tough. So is our offense. Everyone has opinions and that's fine. Agree to disagree.

Go Colts!

Our team's played "soft when it mattered" because playoff teams are 

solid in the trenches and on defense more often than not. 

Polian's 1st rd picks:

Offense: Manning, Edge, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Gonzalez,

Addai, Donald Brown

Defense: Freeney, Rob Morris and Marlin Jackson

 

These teams were a blast to watch but in the playoffs, tough team's 

in the trenches and defense usually overcame our investment in the

skill positions.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

Our team's played "soft when it mattered" because playoff teams are 

solid in the trenches and on defense more often than not. 

Polian's 1st rd picks:

Offense: Manning, Edge, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Gonzalez,

Addai, Donald Brown

Defense: Freeney, Rob Morris and Marlin Jackson

 

These teams were a blast to watch but in the playoffs, tough team's 

in the trenches and defense usually overcame our investment in the

skill positions.

 

 

You're helping me make my point. As I stated before, Polian was an offensive minded guy that got Peyton weapons but constantly ignored the defense. Nobody's fault but the GM (Polian) for giving us a "soft" label. It was fun to watch when we were blowing teams out, but when we lose or get blown out it's not as fun or we start saying things like "soft" ...

But let's talk about the "Now", that's the past. Our defense is young and tough. So is our offense. I dont see anything "soft" about the team. Especially after Ballard changed the mindset. Whether we draft a WR early or late it really won't matter. We just have to go out and compete at a high level.

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4 hours ago, Hoose said:

I dunno. I suspect he'll go D or WR early, and wait to pluck a developmental OT early in Day 3. There is a boatload of defensive talent and at WR that will be gone by the end of the 2nd round. Overall, though, I do agree and believe the Colts grab an OT to mold for the future. Just not as early as you suggested. 

We as fans are looking at this draft in the sense of need.

I am not too sure that is exactly what Ballard is thinking. I think it's the most talented player that fits his vision. I just think this draft will not go like most think after the 1st round. Last year showed it so I don't think this one is going to any different.

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On 2/21/2019 at 12:18 PM, crazycolt1 said:

We as fans are looking at this draft in the sense of need.

I am not too sure that is exactly what Ballard is thinking.

 

All anyone ever wants to talk about is need. I've grown weary of it.

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11 hours ago, Superman said:

 

All anyone ever wants to talk about is need. I've grown weary of it.

 

(Apologies....   this will be long....)

 

Serious and sincere question?

 

How else should the average fan,  or even a fanatic,  think of drafts?     Honestly.    How else.

 

You're going to say BPA.     Fine.    Except one small problem.    Nobody here and I mean NOBODY,  knows what BPA truly is.     And I don't mean that as an insult to anyone.    BPA is literally in the eye of the beholder.

 

I'm guessing that we have roughly 300-400 different people who post with some frequency.   I don't think I'm off by too much.     Maybe 500?     Out of 20,000 who are said to be members.

 

And out of all of them,  only about 5 of us +/- even make a list of the top 100.     That's it.   And most don't look at the top-100 lists that come out the week of the draft.    People don't know where to begin using BPA.

 

But it's simple and straight forward to think of the draft in terms of filling needs.    Espeically after the free agency period.      I don't know why you're weary of anything like that?

 

And here's another perspective.      Other than Hooker, in Ballard's first draft,   and perhaps Cain in the 2nd draft....    hasn't move every pick looked at some level to be based on need?      Honestly.    Seriously.

 

Now, to be fair,  we both know this was a complete rebuild.    So, you could point at most anyone we've drafted the last two years and say we took that guy based on BPA or NEED.     Wilson looked like a good pick in the 40's.   And we needed a big corner.    Basham was projected to go right around where we took him,  the low 80's and we needed a pass rush.    In the 4th,  we took a lineman (in an historically bad year for O-lineman) and Stewart and Mack.    We needed an O-line, we needed D-line,  and we needed a RB.   5th round,  we needed a 2nd corner and took Hairston and we needed a linebacker and took Walker.      There were clear needs everywhere.

 

Look at last year.   Ballard says any position can be a difference maker and I believe he said he thought Nelson was a top-3 player.   Got him at 6.    That looks like BPA.   Except he also said he wanted to fix the O-line so there's an argument for need.     Look at R2.   A playmaking weakside OLB,  looks like need and few of us thought Leonard was worth the 36th pick.   Smith looked like a bit of a reach at 37,  but Ballard later called him the last starting guard to come out of the draft.   And Turay and Lewis looked like CB was addressing needs of creating a pass rush in waves.   4th round was Hines and some of us called that one.   5th round we took a WR (Fountain, who we didn't see coming) and another RB (Wilkins, who we didn't see coming)  but both look like needs.  6th round, Cain who looks like BPA... a guy thought to go on Day 2,  lasts to R6 because of off the field concerns.    And we still needed linebackers and Ballard took 2 in R7.

 

There are arguments here that Ballard addresses needs in most rounds while trying to stay as close to BPA as he can.     How would people do any mock draft if they didn't go need.    As I've been saying,   none of us knows what a BPA board really looks like.

 

I'm as hard on this community as anyone.    And yet here I think we should cut posters some slack.....    Honestly.

 

You and I often have this debate.    But since you brought it up here,  I thought I'd address in a somewhat different perspective.

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55 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

(Apologies....   this will be long....)

 

 

So you mentioned a lot of things. I won't address them all head on, just responding to the general point of the post.

 

First, when I said "anyone" in my post, I didn't just mean this board. It includes this board, sure, but I'm talking about everyone -- media, draftniks, fans outside of this board... the day after the draft, bloggers will grade the Colts draft, primarily on the basis of need. 

 

And my problem with that is that it continues to perpetuate the erroneous idea that the draft is meant to fill needs. And it's not, and really never has been. The draft is for adding young talent, not balancing the roster. How often does someone post something like 'the Colts should draft X in the first round, then find a player at X position on Day 2, then find players at X positions later in the draft'? It's pretty prevalent, and it's entirely based on perceived need. 

 

It's to the point where if the Colts first round pick doesn't address the perceived biggest need on the roster, most people feel that it doesn't have value. 'Why draft X position when Y position is our biggest need?' Another frequent comment, and not just on this board; media says the same thing. 

 

We don't need to have a consensus on who or what BPA is to understand on a fundamental level that targeting positions in specific rounds isn't how GMs draft. To whatever extent Ballard's draft picks have been influenced by team need -- and we'll never really know, because we don't know what their board looked like -- he's not determining what positions he's going to pick in what round. 

 

People can do mock drafts based on whatever criteria they would like. My beef right now is more with judging every projection almost entirely on the basis of need. I think it's shortsighted and off target, but it's become accepted as the primary criteria for whether a draft is successful. 

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11 hours ago, Superman said:

 

So you mentioned a lot of things. I won't address them all head on, just responding to the general point of the post.

 

First, when I said "anyone" in my post, I didn't just mean this board. It includes this board, sure, but I'm talking about everyone -- media, draftniks, fans outside of this board... the day after the draft, bloggers will grade the Colts draft, primarily on the basis of need. 

 

And my problem with that is that it continues to perpetuate the erroneous idea that the draft is meant to fill needs. And it's not, and really never has been. The draft is for adding young talent, not balancing the roster. How often does someone post something like 'the Colts should draft X in the first round, then find a player at X position on Day 2, then find players at X positions later in the draft'? It's pretty prevalent, and it's entirely based on perceived need. 

 

It's to the point where if the Colts first round pick doesn't address the perceived biggest need on the roster, most people feel that it doesn't have value. 'Why draft X position when Y position is our biggest need?' Another frequent comment, and not just on this board; media says the same thing. 

 

We don't need to have a consensus on who or what BPA is to understand on a fundamental level that targeting positions in specific rounds isn't how GMs draft. To whatever extent Ballard's draft picks have been influenced by team need -- and we'll never really know, because we don't know what their board looked like -- he's not determining what positions he's going to pick in what round. 

 

People can do mock drafts based on whatever criteria they would like. My beef right now is more with judging every projection almost entirely on the basis of need. I think it's shortsighted and off target, but it's become accepted as the primary criteria for whether a draft is successful. 

 

Tj Hockenson could be BPA by a wide margin on Ballard's board come April for all anyone knows... Is tight end a need right now? Not so much compared to pass rush and receiver... But no one is going to complain come September when ole T Hock is catching td's with Ebron every week. 

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28 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Tj Hockenson could be BPA by a wide margin on Ballard's board come April for all anyone knows... Is tight end a need right now? Not so much compared to pass rush and receiver... But no one is going to complain come September when ole T Hock is catching td's with Ebron every week. 

 

Yup. I doubt he falls to #26, but if he did, the only reason not to draft him is if the team doesn't value TEs. But I think Reich and Ballard do value TEs, especially multi-purpose guys like Hockenson. 

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3 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Tj Hockenson could be BPA by a wide margin on Ballard's board come April for all anyone knows... Is tight end a need right now? Not so much compared to pass rush and receiver... But no one is going to complain come September when ole T Hock is catching td's with Ebron every week. 

 

Right - we do focus on need.  I think that is only natural.  We see weaknesses in the team week to week and hope we will find someone to upgrade those positions.  

 

But if BPA drives the draft then we are getting quality guys.  That is the most you can ask for.  We can all debate whether player X was the best player ahead of player Y and we all know sometimes guys work out and sometimes they don't. 

 

The real goal is having the best scouts so we have an edge determining BPA compared to other teams.

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