WarGhost21

Question About Mack

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When Marlon Mack was drafted, he was seen as being a complementary back for Gore, mainly a change of pace back who can come in on third downs and catch the ball and has speed to break the defense down.

 

I bet you missed where my question was from that, didn’t you? Marlon Mack, when drafted, was pinned to be a recieving back for us, a change of pace speed back with some good recieving chops. Yet after his second year, while he has done tremendous on the ground, he has just 38 catches over both regular seasons. 21 running backs had that many catches or more in this season alone.

 

Now, I understand that Mack was used a lot in pass pro, which is a big reason why Andrew was so clean all season, but until he proves to me that he can catch the ball consistently and in a larger quantity than he currently is, I’m not sold on him as a 3 down back. Otherwise, I’m happy as to how he’s developed all other facets, but I want to know why his recieving, which was a positive of his coming into the draft, has been such a low point?

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8 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

[snip] Now, I understand that Mack was used a lot in pass pro, which is a big reason why Andrew was so clean all season, but until he proves to me that he can catch the ball consistently and in a larger quantity than he currently is, I’m not sold on him as a 3 down back. [snip]

 

1) I think you just answered your own question. 

---and---

2) Unless your signature is on his game checks, Marlon Mack doesn't owe you "proof" of Jack B. Squat. 

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7 minutes ago, HarryTheCat said:

 

1) I think you just answered your own question. 

---and---

2) Unless your signature is on his game checks, Marlon Mack doesn't owe you "proof" of Jack B. Squat. 

Touché. However, don’t you find it odd in the slightest that a guy who was supposed to come in and catch the ball as a change of pace back doesn’t even catch the ball that much?

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Mack is now our main RB and had over 200 touches Hines was drafted to catch balls and he had 63 receptions this season. Both guys are doing what is asked of them. If we decided to use Mack differently I'm sure he'd do fine 

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hes had several drops, and doesnt look natural catching out of the backfield.  they seemed to stop calling many of those after his tip went for a td against the jets.  i believe that happened the year before too

 

some running backs just dont catch very well, OJ and AP never got it down either 

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7 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

When Marlon Mack was drafted, he was seen as being a complementary back for Gore, mainly a change of pace back who can come in on third downs and catch the ball and has speed to break the defense down.

 

I bet you missed where my question was from that, didn’t you? Marlon Mack, when drafted, was pinned to be a recieving back for us, a change of pace speed back with some good recieving chops. Yet after his second year, while he has done tremendous on the ground, he has just 38 catches over both regular seasons. 21 running backs had that many catches or more in this season alone.

 

Now, I understand that Mack was used a lot in pass pro, which is a big reason why Andrew was so clean all season, but until he proves to me that he can catch the ball consistently and in a larger quantity than he currently is, I’m not sold on him as a 3 down back. Otherwise, I’m happy as to how he’s developed all other facets, but I want to know why his recieving, which was a positive of his coming into the draft, has been such a low point?

 

 Andrew weakest skill is touch and accuracy in the short to mid range game.
I am sure everyone here hopes Andrew someday has fewer "dropped" balls.
Frank got improvement out of him this year. And if FORCED, Andrew will work on it.
 But make no mistake, he likes to hold onto the ball and get it downfield, the old fashioned way, and he is Mighty Good at it beause, he Loves the long ball.
 It is pretty cool how the perrinial SB contenders use multiple backs that have very good receiving skills. I guess it works out ok.   

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7 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

When Marlon Mack was drafted, he was seen as being a complementary back for Gore, mainly a change of pace back

This is incorrect. ^

 

Mack was drafted to be Gore's replacement because Gore was old and the Colts knew they needed a young stud running back, which is exactly what they got.

 

 

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Colts need to actually throw passes to RB's out of the backfield for this to even be an issue. 

 

I scream at the TV because it feels like they could destroy teams with it, and it barely ever happens. 

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8 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

When Marlon Mack was drafted, he was seen as being a complementary back for Gore, mainly a change of pace back who can come in on third downs and catch the ball and has speed to break the defense down.

 

I bet you missed where my question was from that, didn’t you? Marlon Mack, when drafted, was pinned to be a recieving back for us, a change of pace speed back with some good recieving chops. Yet after his second year, while he has done tremendous on the ground, he has just 38 catches over both regular seasons. 21 running backs had that many catches or more in this season alone.

 

Now, I understand that Mack was used a lot in pass pro, which is a big reason why Andrew was so clean all season, but until he proves to me that he can catch the ball consistently and in a larger quantity than he currently is, I’m not sold on him as a 3 down back. Otherwise, I’m happy as to how he’s developed all other facets, but I want to know why his recieving, which was a positive of his coming into the draft, has been such a low point?

I would say the issue is not Mack's production in the passing game but rather fans' expectations.  Mack was not known as a receiving threat in college, he was not drafted to be a receiver back for the Colts.  He was drafted because he has good speed and because on some of his runs it looks like he is double or triple jointed in his hips, knees and ankles.

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1 hour ago, lollygagger8 said:

Colts need to actually throw passes to RB's out of the backfield for this to even be an issue. 

 

I scream at the TV because it feels like they could destroy teams with it, and it barely ever happens. 

I would absolutely love to see our scripted starts and even into the second quarter consist of clock churning, fast pace, short throws with runs mixed in based on the fronts shown. Wear down the defense early, clean up in the fourth quarter. I’m fine with 6 yard gains with each pass. Give me a 6 yard toss a 3 yard run and a 4 yard pass in whatever order it gets the first down. Make that defense stay on the field a lot early. 

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We do need a better short and middle of the field passing game. Plus some better screen plays out of the backfield. 

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I would say the issue is not Mack's production in the passing game but rather fans' expectations.  Mack was not known as a receiving threat in college, he was not drafted to be a receiver back for the Colts.  He was drafted because he has good speed and because on some of his runs it looks like he is double or triple jointed in his hips, knees and ankles.

This* I'm not sure why people thought he was supposed to be a receiving back like hines but they obviously didnt watch his film in college

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2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Colts need to actually throw passes to RB's out of the backfield for this to even be an issue. 

 

I scream at the TV because it feels like they could destroy teams with it, and it barely ever happens. 

Exactly!  That's why Bell would be our perfect lead back and he IS a three down back.  Mack is not IMO.  Up until now Ballard hasn't been able to sign a premier FA talent.  Maybe he has tried, Norwell? Maybe he hasn't.   This off season could be different.  We will see.  BTW if he wants to sign a premier ER he will have to pay.  Most likely overpay.  That's just the way it is.  No pay no play for those guys.  

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2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Colts need to actually throw passes to RB's out of the backfield for this to even be an issue. 

 

I scream at the TV because it feels like they could destroy teams with it, and it barely ever happens. 

Hines was 3rd on the team in receptions behind only Hilton and Ebron.   Between Hines, Mack and Wilkins they have 96 receptions.  NOT throwing to the RBs does not really seem to be an issue.

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7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Exactly!  That's why Bell would be our perfect lead back and he IS a three down back.  Mack is not IMO.  Up until now Ballard hasn't been able to sign a premier FA talent.  Maybe he has tried, Norwell? Maybe he hasn't.   This off season could be different.  We will see.  BTW if he wants to sign a premier ER he will have to pay.  Most likely overpay.  That's just the way it is.  No pay no play for those guys.  

 

IF Colts overpay anyone, I believe it will be a pass rusher based on Ballard's comments thus far. 

 

I think the Bell scenario would've already happened if it was going to. 

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1 minute ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Hines was 3rd on the team in receptions behind only Hilton and Ebron.  

Which begs the question:

Why was he not utilized in the passing game in the two playoff games?

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6 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Hines was 3rd on the team in receptions behind only Hilton and Ebron.   Between Hines, Mack and Wilkins they have 96 receptions.  NOT throwing to the RBs does not really seem to be an issue.

 

I mean designed play (wheel routes) where the QB looks off the LB like he's going to pass to a WR, then the RB creeps out for a pass that was designed that way from the getgo. Not dump off passes. 

 

Like Ray Rice plays. Dude made a career out of that play. 

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2 minutes ago, coltsva said:

Which begs the question:

Why was he not utilized in the passing game in the two playoff games?

That is a good question

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1 minute ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

I mean designed play (wheel routes) where the QB looks off the LB like he's going to pass to a WR, then the RB creeps out for a pass that was designed that way from the getgo. Not dump off passes. 

 

Like Ray Rice plays. Dude made a career out of that play. 

I think the Colts did quite a bit of that as well.  And I'm sure they will implement more as Hines becomes more familiar with the offense.

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3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I think the Colts did quite a bit of that as well.  And I'm sure they will implement more as Hines becomes more familiar with the offense.

 

Here's hoping 

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18 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

When Marlon Mack was drafted, he was seen as being a complementary back for Gore, mainly a change of pace back who can come in on third downs and catch the ball and has speed to break the defense down.

 

I bet you missed where my question was from that, didn’t you? Marlon Mack, when drafted, was pinned to be a recieving back for us, a change of pace speed back with some good recieving chops. Yet after his second year, while he has done tremendous on the ground, he has just 38 catches over both regular seasons. 21 running backs had that many catches or more in this season alone.

 

Now, I understand that Mack was used a lot in pass pro, which is a big reason why Andrew was so clean all season, but until he proves to me that he can catch the ball consistently and in a larger quantity than he currently is, I’m not sold on him as a 3 down back. Otherwise, I’m happy as to how he’s developed all other facets, but I want to know why his recieving, which was a positive of his coming into the draft, has been such a low point?

 

Respectfully......

 

I think this thread starts with a faulty premise.     The idea that being a receiving weapon was a key part to Mack's game.     I went back and checked his NFL draft profiles and there's no mention of that.    Yes, he had 63 receptions in his 3 years as a starter.   That's less than 2 per game.   

 

Being an elusive runner was always Mack's biggest calling card.    Everything else he's learning on the fly in the NFL.    How to run between tackles.    Blocking in pass pro.    Receiving out of the backfield.   

 

I don't know if the OP got him confued with Hines, or someone else?    The OP is quite good.   I just think it's a misremembering of history......      and we move on....

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

I bet you missed where my question was from that, didn’t you?


That's a trick question. I'm looking at your question right now.

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8 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

IF Colts overpay anyone, I believe it will be a pass rusher based on Ballard's comments thus far. 

 

I think the Bell scenario would've already happened if it was going to. 

He couldn't sign him yet if he wanted to.   But I don't think he wants to

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The o ly question I have about Mack is durability.  He's good in everything else imo.  I still think Wilkins is under used.  

 

 

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On 2/6/2019 at 1:45 AM, akcolt said:

Mack is now our main RB and had over 200 touches Hines was drafted to catch balls and he had 63 receptions this season. Both guys are doing what is asked of them. If we decided to use Mack differently I'm sure he'd do fine 

 

I don't think it's a matter of them just deciding not to use him that way, despite ability. 

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Hines also because of this speed is our catching back. Next season look to see the playbook expand. 

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On 2/5/2019 at 10:10 PM, WarGhost21 said:

I’m not sold on him as a 3 down back.

 

If you're not sold on him as a 3 down back at this point after having 900+ rushing yards, 4.7ypc, & 9 rushing TDs in only 12 games, then I don't know what to tell ya.

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On 2/6/2019 at 10:48 AM, lollygagger8 said:

 

IF Colts overpay anyone, I believe it will be a pass rusher based on Ballard's comments thus far. 

 

I think the Bell scenario would've already happened if it was going to. 

I agree on overpaying for the ER.  I can also see Ballard doing it if he has to.  Bell is currently not available to sign at this writing.  So no one can really do anything.  He has to wait on his official availability. 

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On 2/5/2019 at 10:10 PM, WarGhost21 said:

When Marlon Mack was drafted, he was seen as being a complementary back for Gore, mainly a change of pace back who can come in on third downs and catch the ball and has speed to break the defense down.

 

I bet you missed where my question was from that, didn’t you? Marlon Mack, when drafted, was pinned to be a recieving back for us, a change of pace speed back with some good recieving chops. Yet after his second year, while he has done tremendous on the ground, he has just 38 catches over both regular seasons. 21 running backs had that many catches or more in this season alone.

 

Now, I understand that Mack was used a lot in pass pro, which is a big reason why Andrew was so clean all season, but until he proves to me that he can catch the ball consistently and in a larger quantity than he currently is, I’m not sold on him as a 3 down back. Otherwise, I’m happy as to how he’s developed all other facets, but I want to know why his recieving, which was a positive of his coming into the draft, has been such a low point?

 

As others have said, he wasn't brought in to be primarily a 3rd down/receiving back.  He was brought in to learn under Gore for a year and then replace him as our featured back.  

 

4 hours ago, cbear said:

The o ly question I have about Mack is durability.  He's good in everything else imo.  I still think Wilkins is under used.  

 

 

 

I don't really worry about his durability.  He missed a little time early in the season with a hamstring injury from game 1 in pre-season.  This is pretty common and not career threatening (it's not like he blew his knee out or has bad ankles, etc.).  My guess is he was still learning to prepare his body for a full NFL season.  Once he got over than injury, he played fine and durability didn't seem to be an issue for the remainder of the season or into the post-season.

 

I am not sure what is going on with Wilkins.  I notice after he fumbled vs. New England he didn't see any touches the following week vs. NYJ.  He then fumbled vs. Miami and he was rarely used for the next 4 weeks.  As I'm not a coach, I don't know if his fumbles were the reason his playing time got reduced or what was going on with decisions made there.

 

From this article (draft profile), it seems like he can have attitude problems at times and that his 2 major knocks coming out of college were poor pass protection and not running 'big' (i.e., as a big back he doesn't like contact).   Maybe they want him to develop more as a blocker before putting him on the field with Andrew at QB:  https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jordan-wilkins?id=32462018-0002-5601-87aa-0e1aff7cc20a

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