Edge Rushers

[Hark]

I believe, along with many others, that the Colts greatest need is an edge rusher, but various posters have said that top edge rushers never reach free agency. Of the top guys slated to be free agents this year, which one is most likely to actually reach free agency, and which one is most likely to become a Colt, and why?

[Boiler_Colt]

Trey Flowers will most likely be the highest profile guy available. I'd like him as a Colt but he has likely priced himself out or their range. I know Colts have the most cap space and he's a very good player, but not an elite rusher worthy of 15+ million a year.

 

After that you're looking at guys like Preston Smith or Za'Darius Smith. Solid players who will still command a hefty price.

 

 

[DownHillRunner]

12 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Trey Flowers will most likely be the highest profile guy available. I'd like him as a Colt but he has likely priced himself out or their range. I know Colts have the most cap space and he's a very good player, but not an elite rusher worthy of 15+ million a year.

 

After that you're looking at guys like Preston Smith or Za'Darius Smith. Solid players who will still command a hefty price.

 

 

Frank Clark is another guy who’s going to demand a high salary. But he’s not a $15+ million a year pass rusher. I expect DeMarcus Lawrence & Jadeveon Clowney to get tagged. Grady Jarrett and Dee Ford are question marks. 

[ztboiler]

9 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Trey Flowers will most likely be the highest profile guy available. I'd like him as a Colt but he has likely priced himself out or their range. I know Colts have the most cap space and he's a very good player, but not an elite rusher worthy of 15+ million a year.

 

After that you're looking at guys like Preston Smith or Za'Darius Smith. Solid players who will still command a hefty price.

 

 

I think you are saying the same thing about Flowers...but I’d say it this way...Flowers strikes me as a guy who is more valuable to a multiple look defense where he can be disruptive through scheme than to our simple scheme where we really need a guy that wins his matchup on the edge.

[BProland85]

44 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Trey Flowers will most likely be the highest profile guy available. I'd like him as a Colt but he has likely priced himself out or their range. I know Colts have the most cap space and he's a very good player, but not an elite rusher worthy of 15+ million a year.

 

After that you're looking at guys like Preston Smith or Za'Darius Smith. Solid players who will still command a hefty price.

 

 

 

I would love getting Zadarius Smith from Baltimore. He’ll be much cheaper than Flowers and he could be used all over rushing the QB. 

[shasta519]

I think Dee Ford is most likely. Clowney should be Ballard's priority if he hits FA.

[BOTT]

59 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

I think Dee Ford is most likely. Clowney should be Ballard's priority if he hits FA.

Why? Clowney is hardly a premier edge rusher.  Excellent all around player, but if I'm looking for an edge rusher, he's not that high on my list.

[Mr. Too Proud]

I know I'm in the minority but.....

 

I'm 

really looking at Ezekiel Ansah as a viable option at DE. He is similar to Demarcus Lawrence but he’s a little older. A two to three year deal still gets him a big paycheck somewhere else if he can prove to stay healthy with us.

I know the draft is deep for Dline man but I think we fail to think about development and the learning curve of the NFL. If you look at where we drafting at would we really expect to get a impact/starter if we go D-line?

Grabbing Ansah gives our DEs we drafted last year some time to develop and switching him in and out keeps Ansah fresh.

Could the Lions be our farm team jk but like I said above I’m probably in the minority.

[richard pallo]

Quite honestly out of all of the top ER's that are eligible for FA I don't think one of them will make it to FA.  A few will get signed but most will get tagged.  If Ballard is really serious about getting an ER he will have to pursue the tag and trade route. He did draft two ER's in the 2nd. rd. last year and hopefully next year will be big for them.  But who knows.  He could try the same strategy this year but our draft position pretty much makes them developmental players not impact ER's this year.  A number of those who I expect will be tagged; Lawrence, Flowers, Clark,  could be acquired through trade.  This is the year to get a stud ER through trade.  We have the picks and the space to sign them.  I would trade two 1sts. for Lawrence.  Just do it and don't look back.  Trade Brisett for another 2nd. to give us three in the second Rd. and then sign a couple more FA's to close a few holes and we are in business.  That's the only sure fire way to get a young dominant ER IMO.  They just don't get to market.  

[krunk]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Too Proud said:

I know I'm in the minority but.....

 

I'm 

really looking at Ezekiel Ansah as a viable option at DE. He is similar to Demarcus Lawrence but he’s a little older. A two to three year deal still gets him a big paycheck somewhere else if he can prove to stay healthy with us.

I know the draft is deep for Dline man but I think we fail to think about development and the learning curve of the NFL. If you look at where we drafting at would we really expect to get a impact/starter if we go D-line?

Grabbing Ansah gives our DEs we drafted last year some time to develop and switching him in and out keeps Ansah fresh.

Could the Lions be our farm team jk but like I said above I’m probably in the minority.

Ansah is injured quite a bit I think .

[krunk]

1 hour ago, BOTT said:

Why? Clowney is hardly a premier edge rusher.  Excellent all around player, but if I'm looking for an edge rusher, he's not that high on my list.

I like Clowney better than all of them.  I think he gets to the QB even more in a straight up 4-3 scheme.  And he's great against the run.  He'd be the first elite talent/game wrecker type we would have on the DL. His numbers could be better but I think he's starting to hit his stride.  Still time to get there at 25 years old.  I doubt they let him get out the door, but I wouldn't knock Ballard at all if he picked him up.  You pick up Clowney plus a really good DE and DT from the draft to go along with Turay in his second year and Tyquan Lewis and whoever else and it's looking pretty nice I think.

[MikeCurtis]

40 minutes ago, Mr. Too Proud said:

I know I'm in the minority but.....

 

I'm 

really looking at Ezekiel Ansah as a viable option at DE. He is similar to Demarcus Lawrence but he’s a little older. A two to three year deal still gets him a big paycheck somewhere else if he can prove to stay healthy with us.

I know the draft is deep for Dline man but I think we fail to think about development and the learning curve of the NFL. If you look at where we drafting at would we really expect to get a impact/starter if we go D-line?

Grabbing Ansah gives our DEs we drafted last year some time to develop and switching him in and out keeps Ansah fresh.

Could the Lions be our farm team jk but like I said above I’m probably in the minority.

When healthy, the guy can rush the passer

 

I think he will be one player that actually makes it to FA....... the others on this thread...... Not so much.........  (Maybe Flowers)

 

We WILL have to overpay a bit, but I see us grabbing at least ONE DE in FA

and maybe 2 DEs in the first 4 picks of the draft ...........

 

I am starting to very much think someone like Jaylen Ferguson  - 17.5 sacks 26 TFL should be there at 26.

 

Tyquan Lewis was really drafted at UT. With Autry, and Jihad Ward...... the UT rotation would be improved........

 

Its DE, where we have a hole......

 

I also see us looking at Bush out of Michigan,  Nassir Adderly, S...... for some defensive playmakers to add to what DEs that we get

 

 

 

 

 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

I like Clowney better than all of them.  I think he gets to the QB even more in a straight up 4-3 scheme.  And he's great against the run.  He'd be the first elite talent/game wrecker type we would have on the DL. His numbers could be better but I think he's starting to hit his stride.  Still time to get there at 25 years old.  I doubt they let him get out the door, but I wouldn't knock Ballard at all if he picked him up.  You pick up Clowney plus a really good DE and DT from the draft to go along with Turay in his second year and Tyquan Lewis and whoever else and it's looking pretty nice I think.

I really like Clowney as a perfect ER in our scheme.  I just can't see him getting to FA either and there is no way they would do a tag and trade with the Colts.  Clowney, unfortunately,  looks like the most unlikely to be a Colt.

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, BOTT said:

Why? Clowney is hardly a premier edge rusher.  Excellent all around player, but if I'm looking for an edge rusher, he's not that high on my list.

 

None of those guys really are...except for maybe Lawrence (who won't make it to FA). I think Clowney is the best all around edge player...and he could provide 10 sacks/season. If the Colts are spending big at the position...he's my guy.

[Boiler_Colt]

56 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I really like Clowney as a perfect ER in our scheme.  I just can't see him getting to FA either and there is no way they would do a tag and trade with the Colts.  Clowney, unfortunately,  looks like the most unlikely to be a Colt.

From what I've read in a few places they all expect Clowney to get tagged this year but no long term deal. Most have speculated he could actually hit the market the following year when Watson is up for extension.

[throwing BBZ]

5 hours ago, ztboiler said:

I think you are saying the same thing about Flowers...but I’d say it this way...Flowers strikes me as a guy who is more valuable to a multiple look defense where he can be disruptive through scheme than to our simple scheme where we really need a guy that wins his matchup on the edge.

 

Not so much. As our D got experience Flus showed plenty of stunts.
Flowers is extremely strong and versatile. He holds a great edge, bull rushes at a high level, and gets great pressure. I don't believe you know him well.

[stitches]

Here's the PFF video on the this EDGE class of free agents:

I still think Preston Smith is probably the best combination of availability and quality for us. 

 

[richard pallo]

8 hours ago, stitches said:

Here's the PFF video on the this EDGE class of free agents:

I still think Preston Smith is probably the best combination of availability and quality for us. 

 

I actually think Barrett would be a great addition.  Not a lot of snaps last year but excellent production.

[Finball]

16 hours ago, BOTT said:

Why? Clowney is hardly a premier edge rusher.  Excellent all around player, but if I'm looking for an edge rusher, he's not that high on my list.

 

I agree. Too stiff. Can't bend. I'd rush him from the interior on obvious passing downs. And he's good on the interior against the run too.

[shasta519]

16 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

I agree. Too stiff. Can't bend. I'd rush him from the interior on obvious passing downs. And he's good on the interior against the run too.

 

Too stiff and can't bend? I think there are several QBs and OTs that would disagree with that.

 

Clowney is incredibly athletic and very versatile from the edge. He would be a tremendous addition to the Colts, IMO.

[krunk]

Justin Houston might be a pretty decent short term pass rush addition if the Chiefs let him go.  He fits our culture perfectly and we know he can get to the QB.

[akcolt]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

Justin Houston might be a pretty decent short term pass rush addition if the Chiefs let him go.  He fits our culture perfectly and we know he can get to the QB.

That's a cut I think happens. Houston is making big bucks I think his is the largest contract on the roster. He's not playing at a superstar level and Dee Ford needs a new deal. 

 

 

 

[stitches]

 

Yes! Let him hit free agency! 

[throwing BBZ]

On 2/7/2019 at 4:39 PM, akcolt said:

That's a cut I think happens. Houston is making big bucks I think his is the largest contract on the roster. He's not playing at a superstar level and Dee Ford needs a new deal. 

 

 

 

 

 They can save $8.15 M cutting him.
 With $18M Cap space and the $10-12M the cap will rise they have wiggle room, especially if they get a contract with Ford. His 1st year hit would be kept lower with a sizeable signing bonus. And they can wiggle a little moving several Mil with other contracts.
 Now after next season they can save $15.5 M to cut him, so a pay cut sure could be a requirement, though the team Cap space gets better for 2020.

[throwing BBZ]

28 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Yes! Let him hit free agency! 

 

 I agree. And the more options available the better our chances to improve.

I watched some game film on him. Not highlight doodoo.
 This pic is a hint of what i liked a lot. 
  When he comes up he is rock solid extending that long, strong left arm into the shoulder of the LT. He shows real power that gets impressive leverage to control his edge or used to get around. He had 50 total pressures. I could see him being a good long term option to our front.

[Mr_486lo]

I like Preston Smith. He would be a great addition.

[krunk]

  NFL | Clelin Ferrell likely to bust?    Sun Feb 10, 10:40 PM

Clemson DE Clelin Ferrell is 'not anywhere near a top-10 pick' or even a first-round prospect in the 2019 NFL Draft, according to an NFL scout. 'I think he is going to be a good solid pro, but you don't draft a good solid pro in the top 10,' the scout said.

Link to story

 

Clelin Ferrell, DE Clemson
“Most Clemson defensive ends are overrated, and I think Ferrell is too. I like him because he plays hard, but he is not anywhere near a top-10 pick. I don’t think he is a first-round player, because those Clemson defensive ends bust all the time. [Bills defensive end] Shaq Lawson went 19th overall, and he’s been a complete bust. Ferrell is a similar player, similar athlete, but he plays harder. I gave Shaq Lawson a fourth round grade, Ferrell is a little better than him. But from the sheer tools, they are very similar. There are certain schools where positions have a high bust rate and all Clemson defensive ends are productive, they get a ton of unblocked production in that scheme no matter who they line up there. I like Clellin a lot more than some of those guys and I think he is going to be a good solid pro, but you don't draft a good solid pro in the top 10.”

[Superman]

On 2/5/2019 at 1:37 PM, ztboiler said:

I think you are saying the same thing about Flowers...but I’d say it this way...Flowers strikes me as a guy who is more valuable to a multiple look defense where he can be disruptive through scheme than to our simple scheme where we really need a guy that wins his matchup on the edge.

 

Flowers wins matchups on the edge all the time. The Pats actually probably hold him back with their scheme.

 

But our scheme moves DL around all the time. I see Flowers as a best-case version of what Tyquan Lewis can be, but better on the edge. He is diverse inside and outside, technically sound, and great against the run. He can play wide on third down, or move inside and play 3T in a NASCAR package. 

[ztboiler]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Flowers wins matchups on the edge all the time. The Pats actually probably hold him back with their scheme.

 

But our scheme moves DL around all the time. I see Flowers as a best-case version of what Tyquan Lewis can be, but better on the edge. He is diverse inside and outside, technically sound, and great against the run. He can play wide on third down, or move inside and play 3T in a NASCAR package. 

You may be right.  I know his pressures and productivity marks exceed his sack production... but so does Jabaal Sheard. I’m no expert in the specifics of how the Pats use him, so maybe it’s possible he would be more productive here...but I’m concerned that he’s more of a better version of Sheard than he is our RDE of the future.

 

I think Ballard is looking for a more explosive edge bender than Flowers at the comp number Flowers will require north of 15M...but maybe I don’t really know enough about either of those things in reality.

[krunk]

24 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

You may be right.  I know his pressures and productivity marks exceed his sack production... but so does Jabaal Sheard. I’m no expert in the specifics of how the Pats use him, so maybe it’s possible he would be more productive here...but I’m concerned that he’s more of a better version of Sheard than he is our RDE of the future.

 

I think Ballard is looking for a more explosive edge bender than Flowers at the comp number Flowers will require north of 15M...but maybe I don’t really know enough about either of those things in reality.

I agree with you

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

You may be right.  I know his pressures and productivity marks exceed his sack production... but so does Jabaal Sheard. I’m no expert in the specifics of how the Pats use him, so maybe it’s possible he would be more productive here...but I’m concerned that he’s more of a better version of Sheard than he is our RDE of the future.

 

I think Ballard is looking for a more explosive edge bender than Flowers at the comp number Flowers will require north of 15M...but maybe I don’t really know enough about either of those things in reality.

 

He's played more at LE than RE, 57% of his pass rush snaps were on the left side last year. The other 43% were split across the line. "Better version of Sheard" is a decent projection, but I think he's significantly better than Sheard, and more versatile as a DL.

 

He's not necessarily an explosive edge bender, but he's definitely a productive edge rusher, and he's productive when he moves inside. I don't expect the explosive, bendy guys to hit free agency, and even someone like Dante Fowler, who has the speed/explosiveness (maybe not bendy), doesn't have Flowers' production. 

 

He's not Joey Bosa, Mack, Miller, etc., the elite edge rush prospect with the insane measurables that you can probably only get in the top ten of the draft. He's more Chandler Jones, Cameron Jordan -- still more than capable of wrecking a game, but not just a fly off the edge pass rusher. I don't think you can get that elite guy in free agency. If we have to settle, I'm fine with Flowers, because of his versatility and how great he is against the run. 

[throwing BBZ]

Ballard can look for and want till the cows come home.
Ford is the only such bender in FA. lol him being available or wanted here. 
And Von Miller got paid $19m per to play LDE.
And i do see Flowers as a better version of Sheard. More powerfull hands to control with. 
 Ballard said he wants at least 3 quality pass rushers to put on the field at one time i believe he was meaning. Autry qualifies IMO. lol after that. Players in development with Lewis and Autry.
 There is pressure to add another piece that isn't a Rookie this off season. JMO
Flowers could work for him and Irsay. 

[ztboiler]

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He's played more at LE than RE, 57% of his pass rush snaps were on the left side last year. The other 43% were split across the line. "Better version of Sheard" is a decent projection, but I think he's significantly better than Sheard, and more versatile as a DL.

 

He's not necessarily an explosive edge bender, but he's definitely a productive edge rusher, and he's productive when he moves inside. I don't expect the explosive, bendy guys to hit free agency, and even someone like Dante Fowler, who has the speed/explosiveness (maybe not bendy), doesn't have Flowers' production. 

 

He's not Joey Bosa, Mack, Miller, etc., the elite edge rush prospect with the insane measurables that you can probably only get in the top ten of the draft. He's more Chandler Jones, Cameron Jordan -- still more than capable of wrecking a game, but not just a fly off the edge pass rusher. I don't think you can get that elite guy in free agency. If we have to settle, I'm fine with Flowers, because of his versatility and how great he is against the run. 

Will be interesting, should Flowers hit the market, what type of premium Ballard will pay for the traits and fit you just described.

[Superman]

45 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Will be interesting, should Flowers hit the market, what type of premium Ballard will pay for the traits and fit you just described.

 

It will be interesting. I'm working on my mock 1.0, and I'll partially spoil it by saying Flowers is in it, at a premium. And that's because he's one of the very best two-way edge defenders in the NFL, with position versatility, who gets a ton of pressure on the QB. He basically does everything that our best front players do, but better.

 

Ballard might not be okay paying that kind of premium for a guy who isn't explosive and bendy, and I get that. But I think he would work well for us.

[BluHorzhu]

On 2/5/2019 at 3:21 PM, Boiler_Colt said:

Trey Flowers will most likely be the highest profile guy available. I'd like him as a Colt but he has likely priced himself out or their range. I know Colts have the most cap space and he's a very good player, but not an elite rusher worthy of 15+ million a year.

 

After that you're looking at guys like Preston Smith or Za'Darius Smith. Solid players who will still command a hefty price.

 

 

I'd be OK with either of the Smiths.  They will still command a heft price, as you say, but are solid players with upside.

[ThorstenDenmark]

Demarcus Lawrence will end up ind Indianapolis.

 

https://www.12up.com/posts/6119099-report-demarcus-lawrence-will-refuse-to-play-under-franchise-tag-in-2019

 

If he hits free agency or, when he hits free agency, Ballard will be all over him.

[Superman]

4 hours ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

Demarcus Lawrence will end up ind Indianapolis.

 

https://www.12up.com/posts/6119099-report-demarcus-lawrence-will-refuse-to-play-under-franchise-tag-in-2019

 

If he hits free agency or, when he hits free agency, Ballard will be all over him.

 

Meh.

 

That article and the source material is from before the 2018 season. Things change.

 

And if he does get tagged again, it's hard to imagine him walking away from $19m. It possible, but unlikely.

[DougDew]

IMO, edge rusher is becoming a rotational position.  3 tech is the pass rusher that doesn't leave the field.  Spend more capital on the 3 tech rather than the edge.

[MikeCurtis]

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

IMO, edge rusher is becoming a rotational position.  3 tech is the pass rusher that doesn't leave the field.  Spend more capital on the 3 tech rather than the edge.

How many 3 tech should we have?

 

I always want to get better, but we have Autry and Lewis was drafted as a 3 tech

 

At DE, we are much thinner.

[Defjamz26]

Clowney has to get tagged. You don’t use the number 1 overall pick on a player in the draft and then let him walk (assuming he’s performing). That’s a mistake worthy of termination. If the Texans let Clowney walk after only 5 seasons, I’d show the GM the door.