What can we learn from the pats??

[TomDiggs]

People can harp on the cheating, etc all day long but the truth is the Patriots have a combination of talent and coaching that is unrivaled in the NFL. That is why they win.

 

Look, I hate them as much as anyone, but they are damn good. They have consistency. One HC and starting QB (and a cerebral one at that) for almost two decades.

 

People may not want to hear it, but Josh McDaniels is damn good at what he does. It is why many of us (myself included) were happy when we thought we signed him. Hey, it worked out for us that we didn't. But that doesn't change the fact that McDaniels is definitely one of the best (and in my opinion THE best) offensive coordinator in the league. His adjustments on the fly are fantastic.

 

Which leads me to the other big one:

 

The Patriots have better/more versatile personnel than other teams.

 

They don't draft or sign or pay the flashy guys. But they get "the right" guys for their schemes. Guys that can adapt and play in a multitude of ways.

 

Their scheme offensively thrives on quick, short underneath routes.

 

James White is one of the best out of the backfield running routes. It is why Dion Lewis' loss wasn't felt.

 

Julian Edelman is one of (if not the best) slot route runners in the game. Ditto Wes Welker in his prime when he was there. The Pats have benefited from having 12 years of Welker/Edelman manning the slot for them.

 

The Patriots have had almost a decade of dominance at TE. Gronkowski has been and remains the best all-around TE in the game. Sure, injuries have taken their toll on him. And sure his statistics in recent years are less than guys like Kelce or Ertz. But no TE that is as good as Gronk at catching the ball is also blocking as well as he is. They can put him on the field and run down your throat or throw at your LBs or Safeties and win doing it all.

 

Then you sprinkle in the addition of guys like Michel and that allows them to adapt and add some power running into the mix.

 

They also get guys who are "questionable" fits or "underachievers" with other teams and coach them to greatness. This has happened on the OL consistently. Scarnecchia is an awesome OL coach. And he has taken guys this year like Trent Brown and Marcus Cannon and made them solid. Even guys like Shaq Mason have played above their talent level. There is also a darn good stat showing that Scarnecchia's OLs have vastly over-performed compared to their NFL peers. In his 10 years, they have averaged out to being a top-7 OL with a top-10 performance 8 of his 10 years. Oh yea, and their entire OL combined made $14.5M this year. Combined! Their OL made less than some teams pay one of their O-linemen.

 

And that is just offensively.

 

Defensively they have so many versatile moving pieces that they can switch things up.

 

They are always at their best when they have a CB they can rely on to take away a top threat. This was the case w guys like Law, Revis and now Gilmore. And they have paid those guys (unlike many other players) for the privilege to have them.

 

I haven't dug in as deep defensively as I have offensively. But suffice it to say there is a lot to learn from the Patriots but it is hard to emulate.

 

You need consistency in coaching. At the HC level and then w a steady pipeline of talent at Coordinator level to replace poached coaches. Belichick runs that Defense so everytime they lose a DC it doesn't hurt them.

 

Also, equally important is you need team players who take less money to be part of your culture. Brady has done this for years. Gronk has made considerably less than his talents dictate. Ditto their slot WRs. And in line with that, you need an absolutely ruthless management group like they have. The moment a guy is playing well and looking to get paid they ship them out without blinking an eye. They don't "reward good play by paying our own" the way we are trying to.

 

Brady is the 20th best paid QB currently and has taken less than he could have made for years. Edelman is the 40th best paid WR. Gronk is paid as a top-5 TE but arguably underpaid for all he does and has done. Their OL is vastly underpaid and when a guy is due to get paid he will be allowed to leave and replaced with another scheme fit and coached up.

 

There is a lot to like and admire about the way that organization has done things despite my/our hate for them. And a lot to learn. Just very, very difficult to copy and replicate.

 

 

[lollygagger8]

4 hours ago, Dr. T said:

 

The worst is a well-timed OL holding call to negate a big run play and instead make it first and twenty. Funny how that never seems to happen to them.

 

Or the bogus helmet to helmet call,

 

Or the illegal hands to the face, which Kansas City got away with for the entire playoff game against the Colts

[NewEra]

They have an uncanny ability to know what you're going to do and what play you're playing before you do it....

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Or the bogus helmet to helmet call,

 

Or the illegal hands to the face, which Kansas City got away with for the entire playoff game against the Colts

There was quite a few PI's that were blatant and not called. Momentum swinging plays. NE seems to always benefit from that also. I fricken hate that team, have hated them for 17 years and the more Info that comes out about their cheating the more I don't like them.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

8 hours ago, Trace Pyott said:

I’m sitting here scratching my head at what makes the pats win every freaking year!  I mean yes Brady is great but so is brees and Peyton and many other qb who have played in this league and none have won as much as that annoying bum. 

  Then there is bellichick, he is a great coach I won’t deny that but is he really that freaking smart that all the coaches and the league can’t figure him out? Is he really that much smarter than every single coach to ever coach the game?  I just don’t get it. 

 I’m not saying they are always cheating but my god something just doesn’t seem right to me especially considering all the stuff they have been caught doing in the past. I forget who it was who said it but they were referring to sports and they basically said that god created all men basically equal. Yes some are a little smarter and some are a little more physically gifted but when you have an outlier someone who is way way way way better than everyone who’s ever lived than something is most likely up.  

 So is there anything we can learn from the pats or are they just willing to cheat more than the rest or is the nfl rigged?  I’m being serious here I am not making this to bash NE I’m just wondering how they can be head and shoulders better than everyone. I can see where a team like golden state or someone like that can be , they have 4 or 5 superstars on playing for them every single night out of a 5 player lineup. The pats may have one or two stars but destroy everyone.  How is this happening?  Are the players aware of the cheating and just don’t want to bite the hand that feeds them out of fear?  Ok rant over. 

 

Don't beat your head against the wall trying to figure it out. 

I BOLDED the answer for you that you already had.

[ColtsBlueFL]

9 hours ago, Trace Pyott said:

I’m sitting here scratching my head at what makes the pats win every freaking year!  I mean yes Brady is great but so is brees and Peyton and many other qb who have played in this league and none have won as much as that annoying bum. 

 

A team is more than a star or two...

 

Quote

  Then there is bellichick, he is a great coach I won’t deny that but is he really that freaking smart that all the coaches and the league can’t figure him out? Is he really that much smarter than every single coach to ever coach the game?  

 

Defensively, game planning and in game adjustments, there are none better IMO.

 

Quote

I just don’t get it. 

 I’m not saying they are always cheating but my god something just doesn’t seem right to me especially considering all the stuff they have been caught doing in the past. I forget who it was who said it but they were referring to sports and they basically said that god created all men basically equal. Yes some are a little smarter and some are a little more physically gifted but when you have an outlier someone who is way way way way better than everyone who’s ever lived than something is most likely up.  

 

Maybe, they always push the envelope.  But hard proof is hard to come by or destroyed by the NFL.

 

Quote

 So is there anything we can learn from the pats or are they just willing to cheat more than the rest or is the nfl rigged?  I’m being serious here I am not making this to bash NE I’m just wondering how they can be head and shoulders better than everyone.

 

 

They have a system.  Their coaches adhere and teach it.  Belichick is increible at spotting certain players/traits that 'fit'. The players learn their specific roles, they learn it inside and out.  Many players are lower talent, quite average athletes (or cast offs) that have a chip on their shoulder and plain outwork everyone else.

 

Remember the Pats mantra... "Do your job!"

 

Quote

I can see where a team like golden state or someone like that can be , they have 4 or 5 superstars on playing for them every single night out of a 5 player lineup. The pats may have one or two stars but destroy everyone.  How is this happening?  

 

The others supporting the 'stars' play nearly as well as them through hard work.

 

Quote

 

Are the players aware of the cheating and just don’t want to bite the hand that feeds them out of fear?  Ok rant over. 

 

7 hours ago, lester said:

 

One word: Belichick

 

Brady is not the GOAT, Bill Belichick is. Without Belichick, Brady is Adam Smith.

 

Belichick helps Brady because of the Pats defense effectiveness. Bill doesn't handle the offense. Charlie Weis (and then afterwards, Josh McDaniels) was much more involved in Brady becoming much more than Alex Smith. 

[John Hammonds]

The Patriots win based on four principles:

1 - Take away what your opponent does best.  This has already been well documented over and over.  If your opponent has a great receiver, then you double that receiver and don't let them catch anything.  If you rely on your quarterback, they harass him endlessly, not allowing him any chance to get any kind of rhythm.  You are gonna have to beat them with your third option.  If you do, they'll tip their hat and congratulate you.  But you're gonna have to do it first.

2 - Don't ever, ever, ever beat yourself.  They minimize mistakes to the point of frustration.  No holding calls.  No false starts.  No offsides.  Take the sack rather than risk the interception.  Play to perfection.

3 - Make the most of everything.  Don't waste time hopping or skipping, trying to juke your opponent, stopping your own momentum.  From the moment you have the ball, you race forwards.  Forwards as fast as you can with all your power.  Allow your momentum to gain that extra yard and a half.  Squeeze as much as you can out of every opportunity.

4 - Take full advantage of everything the officials allow you to do.  This is often interpreted as "cheating".  Is it cheating if they allow it?  If they allow you to be obscure in your injury reports, then be obscure, until they don't allow it anymore.  If they're not calling holding, then hold on every play until they call it.  If they're not calling pass interference, then interfere continually until they call it.  It's not cheating.  It's playing without integrity.  Integrity means not doing what they would have allowed anyway.  I'm not saying I recommend this; I'm saying this is what they do.

 

"Their main weapon is intimidation.  They know they're going to win.  And so do their opponents."  -- Kurt Russell as Herb Brooks, "Miracle"

[ricker182]

Break the rules.  

Get suspended.  

Win Super Bowl MVP.   

  

I hope that's what those two are telling the kids at Disney World today.

[SOMDColtsfan]

11 hours ago, Dr. T said:

 

The worst is a well-timed OL holding call to negate a big run play and instead make it first and twenty. Funny how that never seems to happen to them.

I was at work thinking about that play today and how the replay showed no real evident hold. Was huge..

[will426]

lol well I will just congratulate them as non exciting as it was they won and have been there 3 straight times winning 2/3 enough hating give em respect lol they’re not unbeatable as proven with those super bowl losses 

[LockeDown]

I pm think we finally have a guy who can match wits with Bellichik and now he’s motivated to do so.  Ballard.  At least that’s my hope. 

[sreeb2deeni]

9 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

People can harp on the cheating, etc all day long but the truth is the Patriots have a combination of talent and coaching that is unrivaled in the NFL. That is why they win.

 

Look, I hate them as much as anyone, but they are damn good. They have consistency. One HC and starting QB (and a cerebral one at that) for almost two decades.

 

People may not want to hear it, but Josh McDaniels is damn good at what he does. It is why many of us (myself included) were happy when we thought we signed him. Hey, it worked out for us that we didn't. But that doesn't change the fact that McDaniels is definitely one of the best (and in my opinion THE best) offensive coordinator in the league. His adjustments on the fly are fantastic.

 

Which leads me to the other big one:

 

The Patriots have better/more versatile personnel than other teams.

 

They don't draft or sign or pay the flashy guys. But they get "the right" guys for their schemes. Guys that can adapt and play in a multitude of ways.

 

Their scheme offensively thrives on quick, short underneath routes.

 

James White is one of the best out of the backfield running routes. It is why Dion Lewis' loss wasn't felt.

 

Julian Edelman is one of (if not the best) slot route runners in the game. Ditto Wes Welker in his prime when he was there. The Pats have benefited from having 12 years of Welker/Edelman manning the slot for them.

 

The Patriots have had almost a decade of dominance at TE. Gronkowski has been and remains the best all-around TE in the game. Sure, injuries have taken their toll on him. And sure his statistics in recent years are less than guys like Kelce or Ertz. But no TE that is as good as Gronk at catching the ball is also blocking as well as he is. They can put him on the field and run down your throat or throw at your LBs or Safeties and win doing it all.

 

Then you sprinkle in the addition of guys like Michel and that allows them to adapt and add some power running into the mix.

 

They also get guys who are "questionable" fits or "underachievers" with other teams and coach them to greatness. This has happened on the OL consistently. Scarnecchia is an awesome OL coach. And he has taken guys this year like Trent Brown and Marcus Cannon and made them solid. Even guys like Shaq Mason have played above their talent level. There is also a darn good stat showing that Scarnecchia's OLs have vastly over-performed compared to their NFL peers. In his 10 years, they have averaged out to being a top-7 OL with a top-10 performance 8 of his 10 years. Oh yea, and their entire OL combined made $14.5M this year. Combined! Their OL made less than some teams pay one of their O-linemen.

 

And that is just offensively.

 

Defensively they have so many versatile moving pieces that they can switch things up.

 

They are always at their best when they have a CB they can rely on to take away a top threat. This was the case w guys like Law, Revis and now Gilmore. And they have paid those guys (unlike many other players) for the privilege to have them.

 

I haven't dug in as deep defensively as I have offensively. But suffice it to say there is a lot to learn from the Patriots but it is hard to emulate.

 

You need consistency in coaching. At the HC level and then w a steady pipeline of talent at Coordinator level to replace poached coaches. Belichick runs that Defense so everytime they lose a DC it doesn't hurt them.

 

Also, equally important is you need team players who take less money to be part of your culture. Brady has done this for years. Gronk has made considerably less than his talents dictate. Ditto their slot WRs. And in line with that, you need an absolutely ruthless management group like they have. The moment a guy is playing well and looking to get paid they ship them out without blinking an eye. They don't "reward good play by paying our own" the way we are trying to.

 

Brady is the 20th best paid QB currently and has taken less than he could have made for years. Edelman is the 40th best paid WR. Gronk is paid as a top-5 TE but arguably underpaid for all he does and has done. Their OL is vastly underpaid and when a guy is due to get paid he will be allowed to leave and replaced with another scheme fit and coached up.

 

There is a lot to like and admire about the way that organization has done things despite my/our hate for them. And a lot to learn. Just very, very difficult to copy and replicate.

 

 

I don't post much, but I really enjoyed reading your post. Your comments were interesting and on point. The cheat stuff doesn't do much for me. Thank you!

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 hours ago, LockeDown said:

I pm think we finally have a guy who can match wits with Bellichik and now he’s motivated to do so.  Ballard.  At least that’s my hope. 

 

As far as GM goes, I feel he is already at or a notch above BB.  Coaching...  Ballard doesn't coach, but his fingerprints are all over the D as is Belichick for the Pats.  But offense wise,  Weis and JMcD handle(d) that for BB, as Reich / Sirianni do for the Colts.

 

[Moosejawcolt]

Honestly it's quite easy.  They run multiple schemes on D and O. No other team comes close to the Pats in their ability to inter change week to week.  Every team runs a system and sticks to that system. The Pats don't. It's quite simple why they win so much.

[LockeDown]

4 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

As far as GM goes, I feel he is already a  notch above BB.  Coaching...  Ballard doesn't coach, but his fingerprints are all over the D.  Weis and JD handle(d) that.

 

I’ve racked my brain but I can’t figure out who you’re talking about,  who are Weis and JD?

[ReMeDy]

Two basic things:

1.) Conditioning. The Patriots excel at playing 60 minutes of football, and a lot of that is attributed to their "boot camp" training regime. Purportedly, this training is so intense that it scares signed veterans into retirement, such as Reggie Wayne (he denies it) and Joseph Addai. It's regarded as a team that is "no fun."

2.) Coaching. Belichick is both the GM and HC, providing him increased flexibility in team management. With good coaching, you can overcome the parity the NFL attempts to drive into teams by being efficient at drafting, creating sound gameplans, and motivating players to take paycuts with a winning culture.

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, LockeDown said:

I’ve racked my brain but I can’t figure out who you’re talking about,  who are Weis and JD?

 

I got interrupted at the time and had to run before all my my thoughts hit the keyboard.  I went back and edited it for clarity.  Thanks.

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

Two basic things:

1.) Conditioning. The Patriots excel at playing 60 minutes of football, and a lot of that is attributed to their "boot camp" training regime. Purportedly, this training is so intense that it scares signed veterans into retirement, such as Reggie Wayne (he denies it) and Joseph Addai. It's regarded as a team that is "no fun."

2.) Coaching. Belichick is both the GM and HC, providing him increased flexibility in team management. With good coaching, you can overcome the parity the NFL attempts to drive into teams by being efficient at drafting, creating sound gameplans, and motivating players to take paycuts with a winning culture.

 

I'd like to add a 2.a

 

Situational football.  Nobody prepares his team better at intricate special and crunch time game situations. BB anticipates them and coaches/practices them. The extract every second of play out of their 60 minutes.

[coltsva]

Lessons learned from the Patriots:

 

1.The #1 most important thing in football is coaching. It's why good teams can win year after year despite picking late in the draft, and without signing big name free agents.

I believe the Colts now have this with Reich. Time will tell, but early returns look good.

 

2.Highlight reel skill players are way overrated. You need guys who can move the chains.

TY, Inman, Doyle, and Humphries would be 4 excellent, reliable receivers. Throw in Ebron, the unknown with Cain, and Colts are set at receiver/TE. Please do NOT draft a WR early.

 

3.Win the trenches, win the game.

Colts are getting there. O-line is solid, D-line is still getting there.

 

4.Get talent in your defensive backfield.

It gives you flexibility to play multiple coverages.

 

It's often said, the NFL is a copy cat league.

I am extremely optimistic because I see the Colts copying a lot of what the Patriots do in regard to personnel. I believe the Colts will use their first 3 draft picks on either 2 D-line and 1 D-backfield, or 1 D-line and 2 D-backfield (pending FA signings). 

 

 

 

 

 

[NewEra]

On 2/4/2019 at 8:14 AM, lollygagger8 said:

I learned that they are even creepier than I first suspected 

 

 

I needed a puke  like on that

[ThorstenDenmark]

Why the Patriots are succesful...

 

1. They keep it simple.

2. Belichick tells players what to do, and they do it. If they don't, they dont play.

3. No social media is allowed during the season.

4. Theres no drama during the season.

5. Brady is a freaking bad butt, when his teammates don't do their job.

6. No matter how much you hate the patriots, you have to respect them.

7. Many games are won before they play the game, due to the respect. Teams that dont respect the patriots, win.

8. The colts problem, is we are crumbling when playing against the patriots. 

 

 

 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

We should’ve ponied up for Gilmore. He singlehandedly mogged every single game on defense for the Pats. Everyone who thinks it wouldn’t have been worth paying for him is foolish 

[masterlock]

On 2/4/2019 at 5:55 AM, lester said:

 

One word: Belichick

 

Brady is not the GOAT, Bill Belichick is. Without Belichick, Brady is Adam Smith.

How do you know it's not Brady that makes Belichick look good?

[crazycolt1]

40 minutes ago, masterlock said:

How do you know it's not Brady that makes Belichick look good?

Belichick's record with Brady-.771%

Without Brady- .750%.

Very little difference.

[lester]

1 hour ago, masterlock said:

How do you know it's not Brady that makes Belichick look good? 

 

We'll find out soon enough. Once Brady gets his AARP card, the Pats will have to move on. Then we see what happens.

[#12.]

If you try to copy the Pats, you will fail, as everyone who tried has.  If you try to beat them at their own game, you will lose.

 

The best way to beat them is the way we did it a decade ago - put more weapons on the field than they can stop.  Let's see who scores last, and in 5 out of 6 games during that stretch, it worked.  

 

In the playoffs, you have to get homefield.  One reason we lost so many playoff games against them - we had to go up there every damn time.  

[Finball]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Belichick's record with Brady-.771%

Without Brady- .750%.

Very little difference.

 

Pretty sure that without Brady record is wrong. It's under 0.500 off memory.

[crazycolt1]

25 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

Pretty sure that without Brady record is wrong. It's under 0.500 off memory.

Belichick is 15-5 without Brady.

[Jackie Daytona]

6 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Belichick is 15-5 without Brady.

In New England, sure.....  but that's not what was said.  It was just his record without Brady.

[pacolts56]

On 2/4/2019 at 5:14 AM, lollygagger8 said:

I learned that they are even creepier than I first suspected 

 

 

 

Please gouge my eyes out. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 hours ago, NewEra said:

I needed a puke  like on that

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 2/4/2019 at 8:14 AM, lollygagger8 said:

I learned that they are even creepier than I first suspected 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

If we win a SB and Luck smooches Irsay like that, I will  

[crazycolt1]

24 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

In New England, sure.....  but that's not what was said.  It was just his record without Brady.

Yes that is what was said.

If you want to add Cleveland then that makes Pagano better than Belichick.

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yes that is what was said.

If you want to add Cleveland then that makes Pagano better than Belichick.

With Luck healthy in games he played, Chucks record was:

2012 = 2-2 (Arians was 9-3)

2013 = 11-5

2014 = 11-5

2015 = 2-5

2016 = 8-7

34-24, 10 games above .500 and he was 3-3 in the playoffs , not bad for a guy that can't coach according to some  

 

[NannyMcafee]

The Patriots can teach us that cheating gets you superbowl rings in this league. 

[Finball]

12 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Belichick is 15-5 without Brady.

 

No he's not, not even if we ignore the 2000 season when he went 5-11 with Drew Bledsoe. Cassel year alone had 5 losses. Another loss to Bills in 2016 when they were shutout at home with Brisset at QB.

[Chrisaaron1023]

15 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

We should’ve ponied up for Gilmore. He singlehandedly mogged every single game on defense for the Pats. Everyone who thinks it wouldn’t have been worth paying for him is foolish 

Didnt Hogan (in a patriots uniform) Make Gilmore (in a bills uniform) look silly multiple games? 

 

My grandma could play CB for the Pats and shut down Juilo Jones.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Finball said:

 

No he's not, not even if we ignore the 2000 season when he went 5-11 with Drew Bledsoe. Cassel year alone had 5 losses. Another loss to Bills in 2016 when they were shutout at home with Brisset at QB.

I guess you couldn't figure out the record has been since Brady was named a starter.

Sorry it never dawned on you.

[Finball]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

I guess you couldn't figure out the record has been since Brady was named a starter.

Sorry it never dawned on you.

 

I did, thought that was pretty clear from my post. Sorry it never dawned on you. But anyway you had that record wrong.