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Why Brady is NOT the GOAT

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4 hours ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

Playing Devil's Advocate here. If Peyton Manning was the GOAT shouldn't he have been able to make up for the deficiencies of inferior coaching?

 

He did at times, while Brady's never had to.

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2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

its kind of petty to say this.  we all know hes the main reason the colts were so good in the 2000s.  they would not have made two super bowls without him

 

he set records in denver before he got hurt too.  he didnt do a whole lot after he got hurt, but im going to remember that run for a first down against the patriots.  

 

I guess people don't remember how scared that Bears defense was of getting beat by the passing game, especially after Reggie's TD. Urlacher checked into Tampa 2 over and over again, and Manning checked right back into "Orange 12" and we ran the ball down their throats. To try to take credit away from Manning for that game has always bothered me. He outdueled Urlacher and the Bears defense all game long, and that led to us controlling the game and the defense being in favorable situations throughout the second half, which is when the turnovers started piling up.

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What is great about this thread and debate is, most people agree that Brady, Montana, and Peyton are almost unanimous top 3. I have seen Marino and Elway mentioned by some others being in this discussion. I believe @Myles mentioned Young. So most of us are on the same page. By the way Steve Young was great, he could not only pass with extreme accuracy, he could run like a RB + he won a SB as a starter.

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8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He did at times, while Brady's never had to.

Can you imagine Peyton with a coach like Belichick?

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

He did at times, while Brady's never had to.

 

 

What inferior coaching did Manning have to overcome? The coaches that Manning had during his time in the NFL were not bad coaches. Jim Mora took the Saints to the playoffs, Tony Dungy is a Hall of Fame coach, Jim Caldwell was able to win in Detroit, John Fox is a 2 time Conference winning coach, and Gary Kubiak is a coach who won in the playoffs. To say that Manning had bad or inferior coaching just isn't fair in my opinion. Granted, when compared to Belichick all coaches are inferior, but what I mean is substandard coaching. Yes, some of these coaches have had gaffes but even Belichick has had a few over the years. 

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1 minute ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

 

What inferior coaching did Manning have to overcome? The coaches that Manning had during his time in the NFL were not bad coaches. Jim Mora took the Saints to the playoffs, Tony Dungy is a Hall of Fame coach, Jim Caldwell was able to win in Detroit, John Fox is a 2 time Conference winning coach, and Gary Kubiak is a coach who won in the playoffs. To say that Manning had bad or inferior coaching just isn't fair in my opinion. Granted, when compared to Belichick all coaches are inferior, but what I mean is substandard coaching. Yes, some of these coaches have had gaffes but even Belichick has had a few over the years. 

caldwell was good with QBs, but not as a head coach.  Mora was ok, his teams had some talent here but he never won a playoff game

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7 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

What inferior coaching did Manning have to overcome? The coaches that Manning had during his time in the NFL were not bad coaches. Jim Mora took the Saints to the playoffs, Tony Dungy is a Hall of Fame coach, Jim Caldwell was able to win in Detroit, John Fox is a 2 time Conference winning coach, and Gary Kubiak is a coach who won in the playoffs. To say that Manning had bad or inferior coaching just isn't fair in my opinion. Granted, when compared to Belichick all coaches are inferior, but what I mean is substandard coaching. Yes, some of these coaches have had gaffes but even Belichick has had a few over the years. 

 

Did you see the Jets playoff game in 2010?

 

Did you watch the Broncos in the first month of 2012? It wasn't until they started catering the offense to Manning -- which, good on McCoy for doing so -- that the team started winning, and they were pretty well dominant the rest of the season, winning the last ten games. (And then Rahim Moore happened, but Manning gets blamed for the playoff loss because he threw a pick in 3OT, even though the game should have been won by Denver in regulation, if not for a completely blown coverage.) John Fox made a lot of game management errors and had a lot of bad defensive game plans, including against the Colts in the 2014 playoffs. And in general, John Fox is not a good head coach, which is what got him fired in Denver and why he's since been fired by Chicago -- a team that suddenly made the playoffs one year after he left.

 

Tony Dungy is the coach who preferred smallish DL who couldn't stop the run. Great coach, but he had a fundamental flaw in his team building approach, and he was far too conservative in general.

 

And Kubiak wanted to have Manning run a bootleg offense, which made zero sense. 

 

And none of these coaches can hold a candle to Belichick, when it comes to strategy and game management.

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12 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

 

What inferior coaching did Manning have to overcome? The coaches that Manning had during his time in the NFL were not bad coaches. Jim Mora took the Saints to the playoffs, Tony Dungy is a Hall of Fame coach, Jim Caldwell was able to win in Detroit, John Fox is a 2 time Conference winning coach, and Gary Kubiak is a coach who won in the playoffs. To say that Manning had bad or inferior coaching just isn't fair in my opinion. Granted, when compared to Belichick all coaches are inferior, but what I mean is substandard coaching. Yes, some of these coaches have had gaffes but even Belichick has had a few over the years. 

And Peyton Won when having these coaches.   

 

The difference, and it's a Big difference, and Huge advantage to Brady,   is that Brady has had ONE Superior Coach his entire career, where Peyton has had numerous coaches, some good, some not so much.   He went to 4 different Super Bowls, with 4 different Coaches..  The common denominator there was Peyton.

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4 hours ago, Finball said:

 

BB was going for it on 4th down because he respected their defense that much, he didn't think they would be able to drive down the field again and they also needed a touchdown and 2 point conversion to tie the game. Peyton was shot when they went for those 4th downs (Broncos went 3 and out after both of those failed 4th downs). His legs and arms were only good for 15-20 throws or so per game after he had injured his foot earlier in the season. He was 8/15 for 55 yards and was sacked 3 times between that 2nd touchdown early in the 2nd quarter and when Pats went for it on 4th down for the first time.

 

However, I'm not convinced Osweiler would've won that game. At least by week 3 of the following season, Pats had figured out that Osweiler can't handle disguises (he and Texans were shutout in that game).

The Broncos OL was complete trash. They totally fell apart in the second half vs NE and also gave up the most sacks per pass in Superbowl history which had nothing to do with Peyton being in a wheelchair. Kony Ealy had three sacks in that game and has had six in total since. It is actually somewhat remarkable that Peyton managed to play well vs Pittsburgh and for the first half vs NE. 

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20 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Did you see the Jets playoff game in 2010?

 

Did you watch the Broncos in the first month of 2012? It wasn't until they started catering the offense to Manning -- which, good on McCoy for doing so -- that the team started winning, and they were pretty well dominant the rest of the season, winning the last ten games. (And then Rahim Moore happened, but Manning gets blamed for the playoff loss because he threw a pick in 3OT, even though the game should have been won by Denver in regulation, if not for a completely blown coverage.) John Fox made a lot of game management errors and had a lot of bad defensive game plans, including against the Colts in the 2014 playoffs. And in general, John Fox is not a good head coach, which is what got him fired in Denver and why he's since been fired by Chicago -- a team that suddenly made the playoffs one year after he left.

 

Tony Dungy is the coach who preferred smallish DL who couldn't stop the run. Great coach, but he had a fundamental flaw in his team building approach, and he was far too conservative in general.

 

And Kubiak wanted to have Manning run a bootleg offense, which made zero sense. 

 

And none of these coaches can hold a candle to Belichick, when it comes to strategy and game management.

 

It is easy to point out a coaches gaffes and say they are not good head coaches. Belichick going for it on 4th down in the AFC Championship Game. If he doesn't do that, Indy may not have a Super Bowl title. Or even this season when he cost his team a victory and the #1 seed in the AFC by putting Gronk in on coverage. 

 

Jim Caldwell definitely screwed up vs the Jets no doubt about it. He is also the ONLY coach since the 70's who coached more than one season and have a winning record in Detroit. 

 

John Fox led a team with Jake Delhomme at QB to the Super Bowl. I'm sure someone else deserves the credit for that though. He just enjoyed the ride.

 

Dungy should have never been Manning's coach. It is a disgrace in my opinion what the Glazers did to him in giving the team he built to Jon Gruden. I, to this day, still believe that he would have won a Super Bowl in Tampa with the team he built.

 

To say that because none of these guys could hold a candle to Belichick so Manning had inferior coaching would be like saying that because the Cowboys didn't have Peyton Manning that they had inferior QB play with Tony Romo. That's just not fair. Tony was a good and at times a great QB. The same is true with these coaches they were good and in some cases great coaches. They just weren't Belichick.

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1 hour ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

What inferior coaching did Manning have to overcome? The coaches that Manning had during his time in the NFL were not bad coaches. Jim Mora took the Saints to the playoffs, Tony Dungy is a Hall of Fame coach, Jim Caldwell was able to win in Detroit, John Fox is a 2 time Conference winning coach, and Gary Kubiak is a coach who won in the playoffs. To say that Manning had bad or inferior coaching just isn't fair in my opinion. Granted, when compared to Belichick all coaches are inferior, but what I mean is substandard coaching. Yes, some of these coaches have had gaffes but even Belichick has had a few over the years. 

 

 

Dungy had nothing to do with the Colts offense. John Fox was universally trashed in Denver when he had Manning and also had nothing to do with the offense. He made several coaching blunders in the Flacco hail mary playoff loss, had nothing to do with the 2013 record-breaking offense, and it was reported he was leaving for Chicago the morning before they lost to the Colts in the playoffs in 2014 as he and Elway had a falling out mid-season. Kubiak's deficiencies are well known and certainly all the bootlegging practice Manning was doing contributed to his body breaking down. You can argue that with Manning's locker room leadership and Wade Phillip's D, any head coach could have won that ring. The decision he made to put Manning in for Osweiler got them HFA and is maybe the best decision of his career.   

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12 minutes ago, 18to87 said:

The Broncos OL was complete trash. They totally fell apart in the second half vs NE and also gave up the most sacks per pass in Superbowl history which had nothing to do with Peyton being in a wheelchair. Kony Ealy had three sacks in that game and has had six in total since. It is actually somewhat remarkable that Peyton managed to play well vs Pittsburgh and for the first half vs NE. 

 

Their OL was bad but their interior neutralized Kawann Short and Star Lotulelei pretty well in the SB when really no one had done that all season. 

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19 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

They just weren't Belichick.

 

That's the point.

 

I don't want to argue about who was good and who wasn't, and when, and why, and what they did and all that. (I will say that just because Fox went to the SB 15 years ago doesn't mean he was a good coach for Denver; Jeff Fisher went to the SB 19 years ago, he wasn't a good head coach for the Rams.)

 

The point is that Brady has the greatest coach of all time, by any metric. By definition, every coach is "inferior" -- lower in rank, status, quality, or ability.

 

Quote

Belichick going for it on 4th down in the AFC Championship Game. If he doesn't do that, Indy may not have a Super Bowl title.

 

I do want to nitpick here, though. It's neither here nor there, but I think the game you're thinking of was the regular season game in 2009, the famous 4th and 2 decision, not a playoff game. And the Colts didn't win the SB that year, so that play can't be used to theoretically take away a SB from them.

 

Also, I have always defended Belichick's decision on that play. Convert, and the game is over. The one thing I thought he messed up on was calling the timeout at the start of that drive, then using another timeout before the 4th down. He seemed noncommittal; it's the one time it's looked like someone was in his head -- namely, Peyton Manning.

 

Now imagine Manning and Belichick together -- the one QB that appeared to fluster Belichick at times, and the one coach that seemed to hold Manning back in the first half of his career. It's hard to imagine that the Patriots wouldn't have done just as much winning with Manning instead of Brady. Maybe more.

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2 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

Their OL was bad but their interior neutralized Kawann Short and Star Lotulelei pretty well in the SB when really no one had done that all season. 

 

Fair. Their RT was dominated all season long and the LT had a rough day as well. 

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Also, think about this: What kind of gameplan would Belichick employ against Brady, and how would Brady do against it?

 

Point being, not only has Brady always benefited from Belichick's coaching, he's also never had to face Belichick's coaching in a game. Manning has, Brees has, Rodgers has, Rivers has... Belichick's defenses beat HOFers like Jim Kelly, John Elway and Kurt Warner in the SB, and put several others out of the playoffs. 

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6 minutes ago, Superman said:

Also, think about this: What kind of gameplan would Belichick employ against Brady, and how would Brady do against it?

 

Point being, not only has Brady always benefited from Belichick's coaching, he's also never had to face Belichick's coaching in a game. Manning has, Brees has, Rodgers has, Rivers has... Belichick's defenses beat HOFers like Jim Kelly, John Elway and Kurt Warner in the SB, and put several others out of the playoffs. 

An absolute great point. 

 

I hope we get to see this one day; I doubt it, but I hope. 

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40 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

An absolute great point. 

 

I hope we get to see this one day; I doubt it, but I hope. 

 

We never will. Although could you imagine the effect BB (if cloned) would have had on a team like the Steelers. Of course, Big Ben has two rings anyway, but with BB they would not have had the mid-season slumps that have inevitably taken them out of playoff and HFA contention. Big Ben would have more rings than Brady if there were two BB's in the AFC. 

You will probably need to clone Ernie Adams too FWIW. :headspin:

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

Also, think about this: What kind of gameplan would Belichick employ against Brady, and how would Brady do against it?

 

Point being, not only has Brady always benefited from Belichick's coaching, he's also never had to face Belichick's coaching in a game. Manning has, Brees has, Rodgers has, Rivers has... Belichick's defenses beat HOFers like Jim Kelly, John Elway and Kurt Warner in the SB, and put several others out of the playoffs. 

Depends on who Brady’s HC is if it was say Coughlin the game plan may just work..  also depends who BB had at QB.

 

im a firm believe r BB and Brady made eachother.

 

and on a funny side note.. Brady HATES being called the GOAT

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31 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

Depends on who Brady’s HC is if it was say Coughlin the game plan may just work..  also depends who BB had at QB.

 

im a firm believe r BB and Brady made eachother.

 

and on a funny side note.. Brady HATES being called the GOAT

 

Definitely a symbiotic relationship. (I feel like Manning + Belichick would have been just as productive, except for Manning's body eventually breaking down.)

 

However, Belichick's defensive prowess goes back to the 80s. 

 

And of course, I'm not saying Brady's achievements are in any way nullified by this. Just saying why I think the coaching discussion is relevant.

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4 hours ago, 18to87 said:

 

We never will. Although could you imagine the effect BB (if cloned) would have had on a team like the Steelers. Of course, Big Ben has two rings anyway, but with BB they would not have had the mid-season slumps that have inevitably taken them out of playoff and HFA contention. Big Ben would have more rings than Brady if there were two BB's in the AFC. 

You will probably need to clone Ernie Adams too FWIW. :headspin:

Can you imagine BB with Manning and the Colts!? :woah:

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12 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Can you imagine BB with Manning and the Colts!? :woah:

No. I expect Irsay would not put up with the cheating that Kraft has.

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2 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

Can you imagine BB with Manning and the Colts!? :woah:

Oh for sure, I agree. I just think imaging the same scenario with Big Ben adds weight to the pro-Manning discussion. 

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I'm not taking the time to read this whole thing, but I've always maintained BB is the key to that whole outfit.  He's just smarter than everyone else.

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18 hours ago, Superman said:

I do want to nitpick here, though. It's neither here nor there, but I think the game you're thinking of was the regular season game in 2009, the famous 4th and 2 decision, not a playoff game. And the Colts didn't win the SB that year, so that play can't be used to theoretically take away a SB from them.

 

 

 You're correct. I had a memory lapse and got my games mixed up. 

 

18 hours ago, Superman said:

Also, think about this: What kind of gameplan would Belichick employ against Brady, and how would Brady do against it?

 

Point being, not only has Brady always benefited from Belichick's coaching, he's also never had to face Belichick's coaching in a game. Manning has, Brees has, Rodgers has, Rivers has... Belichick's defenses beat HOFers like Jim Kelly, John Elway and Kurt Warner in the SB, and put several others out of the playoffs. 

 I just want to point out that Bill Belichick has 1 playoff win without Tom Brady. So Belichick has had the benefit of having a Hall of Fame QB on the field which gives him the ability to take more chances that other coaches without Tom Brady might not feel comfortable with. 

 

Yes Belichick's defenses beat HOFers but also lost 3 Super Bowls to Eli Manning and Nick Foles and playoff games to Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez. I know some people will say Eli is a HOFer but he's fringe at best and not on the level of Kelly, Elway, or Warner.

 

I know Belichick is the best. I'm not denying it but he has benefitted from having a QB like Tom Brady.

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34 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 You're correct. I had a memory lapse and got my games mixed up. 

 

 I just want to point out that Bill Belichick has 1 playoff win without Tom Brady. So Belichick has had the benefit of having a Hall of Fame QB on the field which gives him the ability to take more chances that other coaches without Tom Brady might not feel comfortable with. 

 

Yes Belichick's defenses beat HOFers but also lost 3 Super Bowls to Eli Manning and Nick Foles and playoff games to Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez. I know some people will say Eli is a HOFer but he's fringe at best and not on the level of Kelly, Elway, or Warner.

 

I know Belichick is the best. I'm not denying it but he has benefitted from having a QB like Tom Brady.

Eli will make the Hall of Fame but losing to Mark Sanchez = YIKES :mindblow:. When Flacco beat them, they had a great defense with Ray and Ed who are both Hall of Famers.

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42 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Eli will make the Hall of Fame but losing to Mark Sanchez = YIKES :mindblow:. When Flacco beat them, they had a great defense with Ray and Ed who are both Hall of Famers.

 

I'm sure that Eli will make the HOF but I think it will be based more on the 2 Super Bowl wins than his total career and I'm ok with that. My point was that Eli was a lesser QB than Elway, Kelly, and Warner.

 

I haven't verified this, but I would dare say that the majority of Super Bowl winning teams have at least one and probably more HOF players on the roster. That's one of the reasons they are in the Super Bowl they have good players.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

I'm sure that Eli will make the HOF but I think it will be based more on the 2 Super Bowl wins than his total career and I'm ok with that. My point was that Eli was a lesser QB than Elway, Kelly, and Warner.

 

I haven't verified this, but I would dare say that the majority of Super Bowl winning teams have at least one and probably more HOF players on the roster. That's one of the reasons they are in the Super Bowl they have good players.

 

 

Eli is without a doubt a Hall of Famer. He has 55,981 Yards with 360 TD's. He has 2 SB wins over the Patriots and 1 when the Patriots were unbeatable in 2007 at 18-0. Mark Sanchez is really the only outlier you have, when the Pats lost to the Jets in 2010 which was stunning. It did not surprise me when the Ravens beat them in 2012 because that Ravens team was great. Flacco was good not a scrub as well.

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I live in Western Massachusetts, and I’ve started referring to Brady as the G-COAT...

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Eli is without a doubt a Hall of Famer. He has 55,981 Yards with 360 TD's. He has 2 SB wins over the Patriots and 1 when the Patriots were unbeatable in 2007 at 18-0. Mark Sanchez is really the only outlier you have, when the Pats lost to the Jets in 2010 which was stunning. It did not surprise me when the Ravens beat them in 2012 because that Ravens team was great. Flacco was good not a scrub as well.

 

I said he was a Hall of Famer. I think passing yards are to the NFL what home runs are to baseball. I think they have lost some value due to rule changes that favor the offense. I didn't realize that Eli had thrown that many touchdowns. I still stand behind my statement that he isn't the same level of QB as Jim Kelly, John Elway, or Kurt Warner. I didn't say Flacco was a scrub. I just named off the QB's that had beaten the Patriots in the playoffs during the Belichick Era.

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@Mel Kiper's Hair  I'm just curious:

 

In my previous scenario where both teams are equal at every position, including HC, except for QB, which team do you think would win: the team with Tom Brady or the team with Peyton Manning?

 

Additionally, if Peyton and Tom switched teams for their career, how many SBs would the Colts/Brady and Pats/Manning have respectively?

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2 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

@Mel Kiper's Hair  I'm just curious:

 

In my previous scenario where both teams are equal at every position, including HC, except for QB, which team do you think would win: the team with Tom Brady or the team with Peyton Manning?

 

Additionally, if Peyton and Tom switched teams for their career, how many SBs would the Colts/Brady and Pats/Manning have respectively?

 

If they were to play 10 times it would probably be 5 wins for Brady and 5 for Manning. Like I've said before, I believe the gap between these 2 is infinitesimally small and I give the edge as to who is the GOAT based on championships because they are so close in all other areas.

 

I think often we tend to romanticize Peyton's career. In college and the first almost half of his career he was considered to be choker who couldn't win the big game. Brady on the other hand has done nothing but win from the word go. He has never been labeled a choker and been labeled as "clutch" when it matters from his first year as a starter on. I said all of that to say that I think if the Colts would have had Tom Brady we might have another Super Bowl or two. Everyone can say it is coaching but at the end of the day it was Brady's execution on the field that helped set up the Patriot Super Bowl wins. If Peyton had been on the Patriots he very well could have just as many championships. Again, I want to say that I feel the gap between these 2 is very small and that the my reasoning for labeling Brady as the GOAT is because in case of a tie the win goes to the one with the most championships. Just my opinion, but it is fun to discuss.

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1 minute ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

Just my opinion, but it is fun to discuss.

 

For the most part, I agree with your opinion.  :hat:

 

Out of 10 games, I think it would be Manning 7 - Brady 3, but all 10 games would be really close.  I give the edge to Manning because I think he would be slightly better at making the right calls and the right throws.  But I'm also a biased Colts homer.  haha

 

If they switched teams for their careers, Manning probably gets 7 or 8 SBs (he ain't losing to his lil bro), while Brady would probably still get 1 or 2.  Both may have ended up with even more than that because I doubt the Steelers, Ravens, or Broncos even sniff the SB with the BB/Manning combo dominating the AFC for 2 decades.  :thmup:

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3 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

For the most part, I agree with your opinion.  :hat:

 

Out of 10 games, I think it would be Manning 7 - Brady 3, but all 10 games would be really close.  I give the edge to Manning because I think he would be slightly better at making the right calls and the right throws.  But I'm also a biased Colts homer.  haha

 

If they switched teams for their careers, Manning probably gets 7 or 8 SBs (he ain't losing to his lil bro), while Brady would probably still get 1 or 2.  Both may have ended up with even more than that because I doubt the Steelers, Ravens, or Broncos even sniff the SB with the BB/Manning combo dominating the AFC for 2 decades.  :thmup:

 

The Patriots wouldn't have needed to steal defensive signals from the opposition during the 00's if they had Manning. 

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On 2/3/2019 at 11:02 PM, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Plus Emmit and his coach never got caught or accused of cheating.

They played in a different era.  Back when [getting away with] 'cheating' was part of the game.  Who complained about Jerry Rice using stickum?  Right.  Pantywaist fans and media are ruining the game.  It's war not checkers. 

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On 2/8/2019 at 3:01 PM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

@Mel Kiper's Hair  I'm just curious:

 

In my previous scenario where both teams are equal at every position, including HC, except for QB, which team do you think would win: the team with Tom Brady or the team with Peyton Manning?

 

Additionally, if Peyton and Tom switched teams for their career, how many SBs would the Colts/Brady and Pats/Manning have respectively?

 

The problem with your thesis is that Manning was paid more than Brady for all of his career.  In the salary cap era, that impacts the other positions.  

 

If Manning and Brady changed places, TB would not have ever started a game and Manning would have benefited from that.  I do not think Manning would have been much better and would likely have enjoyed the same treatment Bledsoe got when a BB QB arrived.  

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1 hour ago, wizwor said:

The problem with your thesis is that Manning was paid more than Brady for all of his career.  In the salary cap era, that impacts the other positions.  

 

If Manning and Brady changed places, TB would not have ever started a game and Manning would have benefited from that.  I do not think Manning would have been much better and would likely have enjoyed the same treatment Bledsoe got when a BB QB arrived.  

 

Huh?

 

For the sake of this mental exercise, just assume both QBs switch places and throw all the salary/contract/draft position stuff out the window.

 

Both QBs start all the games, but Peyton has BB as his HC running the defense, while Brady has a revolving door of coaches.

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Look, it’s simple.  Brady is the tortoise and other more talented QBs are the hare.  He keeps it simple and is unathletic, slow and steady.  Same system, coach and OC for his entire career basically. Don’t make silly mistakes.  The system has his receivers open so he can get rid of the ball quick which keeps him from be8ng sacked which keeps him from being injured, etc....his defense ALWAYS helps him.  His coach ALWAYS helps him. He never is a playmaker, never has to.  Never gets out of the pocket, never has to.  Belichick is the GOAT.  It is obvious.  If you want to  crown Brady now,  then crown him, but that description sounds  more like Fisher for the Lakers rather than Jordan for the Bulls. Nobody would ever say Fisher is better than Jordan. 

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8 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Look, it’s simple.  Brady is the tortoise and other more talented QBs are the hare.  He keeps it simple and is unathletic, slow and steady.  Same system, coach and OC for his entire career basically. Don’t make silly mistakes.  The system has his receivers open so he can get rid of the ball quick which keeps him from be8ng sacked which keeps him from being injured, etc....his defense ALWAYS helps him.  His coach ALWAYS helps him. He never is a playmaker, never has to.  Never gets out of the pocket, never has to.  Belichick is the GOAT.  It is obvious.  If you want to  crown Brady now,  then crown him, but that description sounds  more like Fisher for the Lakers rather than Jordan for the Bulls. Nobody would ever say Fisher is better than Jordan. 

 

The only thing wrong with your comparison is that Fisher's career stats are nowhere near equal to Jordan's. Brady on the other hand will pass Peyton Manning in all of the career passing stats. If the NFL were as simple as a "system" then why aren't more teams running the system? I think the whole "Brady is just a system QB is a little silly".

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55 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

The only thing wrong with your comparison is that Fisher's career stats are nowhere near equal to Jordan's. Brady on the other hand will pass Peyton Manning in all of the career passing stats. If the NFL were as simple as a "system" then why aren't more teams running the system? I think the whole "Brady is just a system QB is a little silly".

he played longer, his stats per game are not better.  its not like peyton had a short career either

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5 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

he played longer, his stats per game are not better.  its not like peyton had a short career either

 

He hasn't played longer. Peyton Manning was in the NFL for 18 seasons and missed one full season. Tom Brady has been in the NFL for 19 seasons but didn't play his rookie year and missed a full season with a knee injury. So that puts both at 17 seasons. Manning has 1,400 more passing yds and 22 more TD's. That equates to about 5 yds more passing per game and .08 more TD's per game.  Manning also threw 80 MORE interceptions than Brady has thrown or .29 more per game.  The stats are nearly identical for the 2 through 17 seasons.

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