Stephen

Is defense the biggest need or offense?

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, DerekDiggler said:

Trey Flowers , Dee Ford Jadeveon Clowny and Frank Clark.    

 

All of these 

With the cap space available, it is possible. 

 

It's odd being in a spot where we can hope to sign a player that maybe in years past we would have excuses not to.

Like with Clowny.   I think in past years, some of us would say things like:

He isn't worth the money he'll be asking for

I'd rather use the money on an edge rusher

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Douzer said:

I posted an old link that guessed 11 picks. The IndyStar has 9 in their most current estimation.

https://www.colts.com/news/how-many-draft-picks-will-the-colts-have-in-2019-20671256

 

While accurate, that article is from last May.

 

I think this is the current draft outlook.   Nice to have 3 picks in the top 59, but bummer to have the 1st pick at 26.   I think Ballard can work with this. 

Oakland has the 4th, 24th and 27th pick in the first round. 

 

image.png.c55da1b7702639e09d5a06afd24a2b94.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought the Chiefs game showed just how much a reliable possession WR2 would be beneficial to the team. It wasn't just the Kansas City game either, there were many instances throughout the season where it looked like our WR corps looked pretty bad. I should feel mildly comfortable if TY Hilton isn't playing in a game. Yes, getting Doyle back will help but as far as wide receivers go I'm hoping either Cain steps up or we can snag Tyrell Williams in free agency.

 

Chester Rodgers isn't it. Zach Pascal isn't it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

Trey Flowers , Dee Ford Jadeveon Clowny and Frank Clark.    

 

All of these 

Boneheaded play aside I would like Dee Dee Ford on this team. I know he's more of a 3/4 linebacker but I think he could fit in here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jskinnz said:

They need more players on both sides of the ball.

 

But if you listen to Ballard's interview on Friday, he thinks the answer to the question posed here is defense.

 

A few paraphrases from what I heard.

 

*  They can go forward with the oline as is.  He does want more depth

*  They do need a WR who can win against single coverage if TY is doubled.  Maybe that player is Cain.

*  Said the d'line played good this.  The way he said good indicated to me they could have played better.

*  Said a couple of times they just need more talent on the defense

*  Said they need a pass rusher and will keep trying to un-earth one from FA or the draft.

 

Seems clear he thinks the defense needs to be better and that d line is at the top of that list 

I appreciate Ballard saying this, but this has been true for about 5 years.  It would have been nice if someone in the front office would have said this at some point before now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

That is a broad statement that I simply don't think is factual.  There are examples every years of WR's coming in and contributing right away.

List the WRs taken in the earlier rounds over the last 5 years and tell me the ones who made more than an occasional play in their first couple of years.

You may think it's a broad statement but it is a true statement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I appreciate Ballard saying this, but this has been true for about 5 years.  It would have been nice if someone in the front office would have said this at some point before now.

Yeah I admit it's nice to have a GM that says what he wants and then tries his best to make it happen. He has been honest on what he will and wont do so it's all good.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ballard did an excellent job in the draft last season, building our offense & defense.

We are home growing a lot of talent, through the draft. If in this next draft, we can continue

to find the right players to add to what we accomplished this year, then holding off on FA's last season was the right move. I think if the right FA's are available this season, that fit in with our

system, then Ballard will pull the trigger and get them. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yeah I admit it's nice to have a GM that says what he wants and then tries his best to make it happen. He has been honest on what he will and wont do so it's all good.

Yeah, I wish someone would have recognized it earlier and said it then.  Its been a problem for about 5 years, so its really not very revealing to say it today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, DerekDiggler said:

It would be impossible for Caine to live up to the fan hype he receives on this site.  Impossible 

I think you are over hyping the fan hype

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Because it does take a couple of years for a WR to learn to play in the NFL.  They will make a play once in a while just from their talent but not on a consistent bases.

 

We don't need a guy to come in and be a top 25 (in rcv yards) year one. We do need a guy to come in and be better than #99, which is what Rodgers was. And a new guy can absolutely be a top 50 guy. 

 

My priorities

1. WR

.....

2. DE or DT that can rush

....

3. CB, RB, OL

 

Luck will get more mileage out of a good WR IMO. To much of a drop off between #1 and 2. The D did enough enough vs the Chiefs to be in that game. The O did not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

That is a broad statement that I simply don't think is factual.  There are examples every years of WR's coming in and contributing right away.

 

Yep. Any rookie WR has just as much chance as Cain to have a big impact next season (probably even more when you account for the injury).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

List the WRs taken in the earlier rounds over the last 5 years and tell me the ones who made more than an occasional play in their first couple of years.

You may think it's a broad statement but it is a true statement.

 

The 2014 draft alone had several guys who were impactful as rookies...and especially as 2nd year players (Evans, OBJ, Robinson, Cooks, Landry, Kelvin Benjamin, etc.)

 

This season had 2nd year huys like Corey Davis, Kupp, JuJu and Golladay.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Myles said:

OF all the FA's available out there, who would you most like to see the Colts sign?

 

Clowney, Ford or Lawrence for DE.

 

Collins or Mathieu for S.

 

Hicks for ILB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

To  the bolded above - agree.  but maybe not 1st 3 picks.  

Likely 3 of the first 5....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TY is a #1 WR. End of story. 

 

WR's can contribute right away, but a large majority need time to develop. Good WR's don't often get traded away unless they have issues....well, unless you're Oakland...

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BOTT said:

I think you are over hyping the fan hype

Not sure which is over hyped more Caine or Jacoby. And neither of them played this yr.  Well JB did come in a throw the long Hail Mary 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we can add 4 solid players at least,  with our #1, 2 #2's, and at least one top tier FA with our favorable salary cap status.

I'd go for a top flight WR, not average type WR for depth as we already have Inman, Pascal, Chester who would be solid #3, 4, and 5 WR for depth.  We need a #1-2 type to complement TY Hilton.

Then I'd go for defense, I think another LB to complement Leanard and Walker.  Walker was solid but he early in the year but he seemed to disappear at the end. Perhaps it was his injury or he hit the wall. 

We have some guys coming back for injury and I'm interested to see what they can do. 

 

WR Cain had gotten a lot of rave reviews but I would remain cautiously optimistic.  He has yet to catch his first NFL pass, and he did have a season ended injury, I think requiring surgery.

He would be competing for the #3-5 WR spots.

DT Jihad Ward, look pretty before he got hurt. He was a 2nd draft choice of the Raiders, and he is still young at 24, 6-5 290 DT, who can provide an inside rush with good size. 

S Mike Mitchell adds veteran savvy, and worth bringing back for a 1 year contract

S Matthias Farley contributor who adds depth and can start

OG Matt Slausen, if he cleared from his injury, he may want to comeback to enjoy our recent success ride and OL dominance, even if is to provide depth, that would be quality depth. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

The 2014 draft alone had several guys who were impactful as rookies...and especially as 2nd year players (Evans, OBJ, Robinson, Cooks, Landry, Kelvin Benjamin, etc.)

 

This season had 2nd year huys like Corey Davis, Kupp, JuJu and Golladay.

 

Is here a difference between 2nd year players and a couple of year players? 

You seen to want to correct me with exactly what I said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Is here a difference between 2nd year players and a couple of year players? 

You seen to want to correct me with exactly what I said.

 

No I wanted to correct your assertion that WRs have not made impacts in their first couple of years...whether that be as rookiees or as 2nd year players.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, DougDew said:

Chiefs game aside, the defense is the issue. 

 

Frankly, our offense looked the same as it has in just about every playoff game we lose.  Ever since Manning, we don't seem to lose playoff game shoot outs where the offense scores a lot of points, but rather they look fairly inept.  To take that extra step, the offense needs two more play makers, IMO.  

 

I think we may very well have 1 of those playmakers in Doyle.  We do definitely need to add some competition into the WR mix, IMO.  

 

While I agree with you that the D needs more help than the O, as our OL continues to improve our O did show last year they can dominate time of possession.  Sometimes, the best thing for the D is to keep them off the field and to be playing with a lead.  IMO, a serious WR threat to go along with TY will really help our O sustain drives and put points on the board (the last season, I thought Ebron was the only one on the team who was above-average in the red zone as a TD threat).  

 

On D, I think we definitely need a pass rusher and some depth across the board.  That said, if we can add another playmaker or 2 to the O to the point where we can sustain long drives frequently and put TDs on the board, it will dramatically help our pass rush (look at Peyton's years in Indy -- Freeney was one of the worst run blocking DEs I have ever seen, but luckily in the vast majority of games Peyton's offense was killing clock and putting points on the board, allowing Freeney/Mathis/etc. to focus almost solely on attacking the other team's QB).

 

15 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Defense. If we draft a wide receiver they probably won’t make a impact for a couple of years. Getting Doyle back will help the offense a ton next year. Plus if we get Inman back he will have a entire off season to work with a Luck. Yes the the offense looked bad but we aren’t as bad as we looked in KC. It was just one of those games.

 

I think you're right that it often takes rookies a couple years to make major impacts at WR, but I think one could certainly come in and be an upgrade to what we have now.  Our WRs problem, outside of a healthy TY, seems to be they cannot create separation in man-coverage and they drop a lot of balls (Inman seems to have good hands and a good catch radius, but all of our other WRs struggled with drops this past season).  

 

I like to remain optimistic with Inman, but as stated below, there's gotta be something to the fact he's really only produced average or better numbers 1 of 5 years in the NFL.  I also tend to agree with you that the KC loss was just an extraordinaly bad game by our O (the drop by Ebron on drive 1 killed the drive and KC took a commanding early lead, so I assume we had to compromise the game plan some).  However, I think with TY slowed down by injury the Chiefs showed the NFL that our receivers can be pretty easily contained in man-coverage.  Even if a rookie doesn't come in and have 90 receptions in year 1, we've got to add someone who can put a little bit of fear into opponents and take some pressure off TY.  

 

13 hours ago, HOZER said:

Defense. We have stout oline, rbs, and tight ends. I think we have a few players like Cain, Inman, or Rogers who could develop into solid 2s. We need pass rush in a major way, need to address it ASAP imo.

 

I think Rogers is a good player, but I don't see him ever becoming a solid #2.  I think we've basically seen his ceiling, but I really don't think he gets enough separation or has enough natural talent to be a very good #2 or 1A WR in the NFL. 

 

Inman seemed more promising last year, but he's 29 years old and in 5 NFL seasons, he's only really had 1 year that was average or better (2016 he had 58 receptions for 810 yards in 16 games with San Diego).  I have to believe there is something to the reason why he was still a FA in the middle of last season and why he's been let go (or not brought back at a minimal price) by multiple teams before landing in Indy.  

 

Cain has not played in a regular season game and was a 6th round draft pick.  I don't think it'd be wise to assume he's going to be a good #2 next year, if he even makes a full recovery and performs well enough to make the team.  Here is Ballard's take on Cain from the front page article: 

 

On if he feels Deon Cain could be a guy who could potentially fill a role as a No. 2 wide receiver:

“Yeah, I mean, we think he’s good enough. But he hasn’t played, you know? And he’s coming off a knee injury. We love Deon Cain. We think Deon’s got big upside. To say he’s going to be that guy next year, to me…”

 

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

List the WRs taken in the earlier rounds over the last 5 years and tell me the ones who made more than an occasional play in their first couple of years.

You may think it's a broad statement but it is a true statement.

 

2014: OBJ, Sammy Watkins, Brandin Cooks, Jarvis Landry, Kelvin Benjamin, Jordan Matthews, Mike Evans all had 53+ catches (which is the same number Chester Rogers gave us in 2018 as our #2).  Allen Hurns, Allen Robinson, and John Brown had 51, 48, 48 respectively.  I think any of them would actually put more fear into an opposing D than Rogers does.

 

2015: Amari Cooper, Jamison Crowder both had 59+ receptions, with Steffon Diggs having 52 and Tyler Lockett having 51.  Again, I think all these guys would put more fear into an opposing D than Rogers does even as rookies (probably more feared than Inman, too).

 

2016: Michael Thomas, Sterling Shepard, Tyreek Hill and Tyler Boyd all had 54+ receptions.  Will Fuller had 47.  Again,  I think even as rookies all 5 of them would be more feared than any of our WRs after TY.

 

2017:  Kupper Cupp and JuJu Smith-Schuster both had 58+ receptions, although this was a a weak draft class for WRs.

 

2018: Calvin Ridley and DJ Moore both 55+ receptions.  Then you had Cristian Kirk, Courtland Sutton, Marquez Valdez-Scantling and Antonio Callaway all between 38-43 catches but each with about 100 more yards than Rogers (Sutton with 216 more yards).

 

I agree with you, it does take young WRs some time to develop.  That said, there are many who still come in and produce at similar or better rates than our 2nd leading WR from this past season.  Playing with a QB like Luck can only help a young WR.  While I wouldn't expect any rookie WR to come in and set the world on fire in year 1, I think it's highly likely that providing Luck with another weapon who is more athletic than our current WRs after TY will still make a difference simply by making other teams afraid of another weapon while game-planning.  They may put up similar numbers to Rogers/Inman but in all honesty, after TY I highly doubt any of our other WRs are keeping d-coordinators up worrying the night before a game.  Plus, with Ballard and Reich emphasizing building through the draft and developing players through coaching, it makes a lot of sense for us to bring in a WR or 2 through the draft with the intention of providing (1) an immediate improvement and (2) a long-term solution.  I love TY, but I also worry about him some... he's a little guy in terms of NFL players and although he's tough and plays through injuries (even though at times it is obvious he's lacking explosiveness), I have some concern he's not going to have many more seasons of playing at his best level for 16 games and into the post-season... I think we definitely should address WR early in the draft and possibly through FA if the right person/price is out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dunno if O or D is a bigger need, but I do know that the offense would run more smoothly with a legit #2 receiver. However, that is probably the only clear cut need on that side of the ball, depending on whether or not we re-sign Glowinski.

 

On D, we need a stud DE, despite the fact that they are next to impossible to find at #26 and in FA. There could he other needs on Defense if we choose not to re-sign players like Desir or Woods. I'd like to see a rangy stud Will get signed and move Walker to SAM.... giving us a beastly rotation at LB and improving coverage on those dinks and dunks. I guess this post proves that I am leaning toward Defense as a bigger need.

 

We could use depth all over, on both sides of the ball, though. Also, in general, I believe that a top 10 offense is more important than a top 10 defense w/ regard to winning in today's NFL.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

No I wanted to correct your assertion that WRs have not made impacts in their first couple of years...whether that be as rookiees or as 2nd year players.

So I take it you are not familiar with history?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our biggest need, is players that can play outside a dome. 

 

Against the Chiefs the colts D# looked like Bambi on thin ice, skating around and never really found their footing.

 

If Mahomes don't get pressured next time we face him and the Chiefs, we know the outcome and it's not a pretty outcome for the colts. 

 

I think we need one or two more defensive playmakers, and at least one who can rush the passer continuously. 

We got Leonard and .... well, that's about it regarding defensive playmakers that continue to make plays over and over again, but thats far from enough, if we want to win in January. 

 

Back in the Manning days, we had, Bob Sanders, Freeney and Mathis rushing the passer, which they all did on a regular basis.

Maybe we didn't have the best defence, but we had playmakers that created plays and gave Manning and his offence to score more points, turning games into shootouts. 

 

So from my perspective, we need to upgrade the D# before we address the offence.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's Defense and it's not close IMO. If I am Ballard I load up on a bunch of D.Lineman picks and Pass Rushers. We can stay fresh and interchange D.Lineman all game and wear teams down with that concept. Also he may nail a great Pass Rusher in the process. Have to put pressure on QB's like Brady and Mahomes otherwise they will eat our lunch.

 

On Offense we just need 1 more playmaker at WR to go with TY, if we get the right one that alone will make a world of difference. Our O.Line is now solid and Luck is healthy too, Doyle will be back and we have Ebron so our TE position is really solid. It would be nice to have a power back but Mack and Hines are pretty good backs.

I think its primarily D line and maybe a more dynamic SS or CB. However i would love to be as strong and as deep as KC is on offense. Wouldnt be mad at all if we picked up another WR or 2. Also wondering if Ballard has any plans on picking up Kareem Hunt.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think its primarily D line and maybe a more dynamic SS. However i would love to be as strong and as deep as KC is on offense. Wouldnt be mad at all if we picked up another WR or 2. Also wondering if Ballard has any plans on picking up Kareem Hunt.

What if we sign T Williams at WR in Free Agency, pick up Hunt and Draft all Defense? That would be fine with me. I think Hunt is a good kid, he just made a dumb mistake. I like Williams from the Chargers and we can load up on picks regarding D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this really a question??

 

We have 4 first round draft picks on offense plus 3 other players who are in the top 15 highest paid players at their position?

 

On defense we have 1 first round pick and no players who are in the top 15 highest paid players at their position.

 

The best teams are balanced, it's an obvious statement. We have to equalize the roster and that means improving the defense. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What if we sign T Williams at WR in Free Agency, pick up Hunt and Draft all Defense? That would be fine with me. I think Hunt is a good kid, he just made a dumb mistake. I like Williams from the Chargers and we can load up on picks regarding D.

I think Ballard sounded like he was pretty good with the 4 backs we have when I read the Colts.com interview.  He spoke more than once about Jonathan Williams in that commentary.  He also sounded like he wanted to continue to add players on D. Specifically the D line and more specifically at pass rusher. I think with everything we've got between all the FA money and the 9 draft picks I think we are in position to load up on Offense and Defense.  Especially since we've got some good young talent coming back between guys like Cain, Fountain, Ishmael, Marcus Johnson.  Plus you got an Old Head that you could consider bringing back in Dontrelle Inman.   It shouldn't take a whole lot to get the Offense looking really, really good.  Definitely should be a defensive draft now that I'm looking at it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think Ballard sounded like he was pretty good with the 4 backs we have when I read the Colts.com interview.  He spoke more than once about Jonathan Williams in that commentary.  He also sounded like he wanted to continue to add players on D. Specifically the D line and more specifically at pass rusher.

Thing is we can get Hunt for cheap right? I love Mack but Hunt is better. Not like signing Bell for tons of money. That was my point about Hunt. Regarding the Draft I am about Defense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Thing is we can get Hunt for cheap right? I love Mack but Hunt is better. Not like signing Bell for tons of money. That was my point about Hunt. Regarding the Draft I am about Defense.

I ain't tripping at all if he goes after Hunt of course.  I'm just not sure what his thoughts are on the subject .

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, krunk said:

I ain't tripping at all if he goes after Hunt of course.  I'm just not sure what his thoughts are on the subject .

Me either but I would love to get a player like Hunt for very little money to go with Mack. Hunt's video was bad but nothing like Mixon's or Rice's. I think he deserves a 2nd chance. I usually do not say that when a guy lays his hands on a woman but that video wasn't overly awful. He didn't hall off and punch her, that kick was more of a push kick. Still wrong but the woman wasn't even hurt. Also I guess she hit him with a lamp at one point. Silly kids :funny:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe after this offseason Draft and FA period we could have a significantly better roster on both sides of the football.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, krunk said:

I believe after this offseason Draft and FA period we could have a significantly better roster on both sides of the football.

I think us and Chiefs will be the teams to beat along with the Pats of course. I think Mahomes is really good. He isn't Carr, Cousins, Watson, and these other chumps. He is the real deal on Lucks level IMO.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You’d think after all these years of putting up good numbers and helping us win People would stop the “we need a #1 Wr” sigh so annoying lol you guys would cry without Hilton but constantly belittle him like he’s worthless to us 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, will426 said:

You’d think after all these years of putting up good numbers and helping us win People would stop the “we need a #1 Wr” sigh so annoying lol you guys would cry without Hilton but constantly belittle him like he’s worthless to us 

TY is very unappreciated. He is great not just good but great. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Me either but I would love to get a player like Hunt for very little money to go with Mack. Hunt's video was bad but nothing like Mixon's or Rice's. I think he deserves a 2nd chance. I usually do not say that when a guy lays his hands on a woman but that video wasn't overly awful. He didn't hall of and punch her, that kick was more of a push kick. Still wrong but the woman wasn't even hurt. Also I guess she hit him with a lamp at one point. Silly kids :funny:

 

Hunt being a FA will allow him to sign for market value.
Will the Jets offer him $7M+ per? If so, is that your "very little money"?
Just saying.
 I would sign him for that. He good!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Hunt being a FA will allow him to sign for market value.
Will the Jets offer him $7M+ per? If so, is that your "very little money"?
Just saying.
 I would sign him for that. He good!

I am just comparing what we would have to sign Bell for :thmup:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think us and Chiefs will be the teams to beat along with the Pats of course. I think Mahomes is really good. He isn't Carr, Cousins, Watson, and these other chumps. He is the real deal on Lucks level IMO.

 

Mahommes is Rogers like with a higher ceiling. 
Andrew is rather Robo and sure looked good when he had lots of time.
 One thing is certain, CB will remain All-In to have a really good OL.
And Andrew is awfully far into his career to become things he just isn't natural at.
 He will get better though, i am confident.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.