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Peyton's wins vs Belichick seem a lot more impressive now

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5 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

There are definitely some flaws. He does love to take chances, some very foolish, in the hopes his player will make that contested catch. 

 

If things don't get better as far as decision-making, we'll simply be the '90s Packers with Favre. 

If we win a SB with Luck, I'd actually be fine with it. Right now I'd take 1 SB win and be happy. With Brady and Mahomes playing in the AFC, and young guys like Watson and Mayfield, a SB is not a guarantee. Not to mention we have to win when we get there.

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Luck finally has good coaching for the first time in his career and a team that is being built around him. I don’t see any reason why at 29 he can’t get better. He also missed almost two seasons. So really his playing age is 27. With Reich as his coach I don’t see any reason he won’t improve. He had his best season this year after not playing for almost two years. With Doyle back and a full off season with his receivers he should be able to match what he did or even better then this year. 

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48 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

So Luck needs to have a superior roster to beat another top team. He can't carry a roster? Not a good start.

You can't randomly put Luck on another roster. Hopefully he gets help on offense, but you get the hand that's dealt to you.

This is true in certain games. However, he was holding on to the ball for way too long in the KC game and got destroyed. He's still inconsistent in this category.

You, along with everyone else, have convienently ignored that I said Luck admits his mistakes and admits he needs to learn from them, then doesn't put in the effort to do so. I want to hear you address this one.

 

1. My point is that wins is not a defining statistic for a QB.  It is a factor but cannot be used to argue he does not  have "football intelligence".  He literally carried a poor roster to the AFCCG in 2014 so he has already proven that.  Unfortunately there is only so far one player can carry a team, as shown in that same year.

 

2. Your point was that Mahomes is much better than Luck, but I am saying Luck would do equally well in KC (which you have not refuted) and so they are similarly talented.  You can argue Mahomes is the better play at the moment, but not "much better IMO".

 

3. Do you have the numbers for holding the ball in the KC game?  I don't think he was able to hold the ball as the pressure was in his face so quickly.  

 

4. To be honest, I didn't think it needed argued.  No idea how you back up that he "doesn't put in the effort", he is one of the hardest workers on the team from what is reported.  Per Pro Football Reference, comparing 2018 to 2016, INT to TD ratio has improved (38% v 42%), Comp % improved (67.3% v 63.5%) and overall rating improved (98.7 v 96.4).  

 

Again, I am open to a conversation comparing perspectives, but you will need to provide some backup to your opinions. 

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13 hours ago, Nesjan3 said:

Manning is the only Qb to beat Brady in a shootout in the playoffs though, greatest game ever 06 afcg.

 

Until Nick Foles did it last year...  :)

 

Peyton is the only one to beat Belichick and Brady in both the regular season and playoffs when the Patriots put up 34 points (the 4th & 2 game, plus the 2006 AFCCG).

 

Every since Romeo Crennel left in 2004, Peyton seemed to have figured Belichick's D out and also knew to control clock well. Even in that game winning drive in the 2006 AFCCG, they made sure to use the run well enough to leave Brady with less than 1 minute after they went up 38-34.  

 

If he were in Matt Ryan's shoes in that SB, it would have ended 31-20 with Peyton checking out to runs while in FG range. He would have ignored Kyle Shanahan calling passes from the sidelines, I am 100% certain on that. I never appreciated his clock management till I saw that Falcons' SB. 

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5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Luck has already proven he can carry a crappy team and win.

He hasn't proven he can beat the Pats, Steelers or a Mahomes led Chiefs team. Until those start happening, we will never make a SB.

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The Pats win by making precision passes to nonsuper athletes like Gronk, edlemann, and White, at the proper time.  They also have hard runners like Burkhead and Blount play a role when necessary.

 

Our QB is not as accurate, as none other in the NFL are either.  Not sure if he always knows the right place to throw it.  And none of our receivers/ball carriers are as good at doing what the five guys above are good at.  The Pats don't have TY to take off the top, but any one of the Pats receivers can do that when the defense isn't expecting it.

 

Not saying I'd make a trade, but the Pats O has done things differently than the rest of the NFL for a while now and it amazes me DCs can't figure it out.

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48 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

If he were in Matt Ryan's shoes in that SB, it would have ended 31-20 with Peyton checking out to runs while in FG range. He would have ignored Kyle Shanahan calling passes from the sidelines, I am 100% certain on that. I never appreciated his clock management till I saw that Falcons' SB. 

Off topic.  Didn't the Falcons lose Freeman for the second half?  Still had the dude from IU, but their big horse that was gashing them in the first half was gone for the game.

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51 minutes ago, chad72 said:

If he were in Matt Ryan's shoes in that SB, it would have ended 31-20 with Peyton checking out to runs while in FG range. He would have ignored Kyle Shanahan calling passes from the sidelines, I am 100% certain on that. I never appreciated his clock management till I saw that Falcons' SB. 

 

No way he takes a sack on that third down, I'm confident of that.

 

And in the KC game, Romo mentioned how Mahomes wasn't able to audible out of some of those plays to beat pressures. Go back and watch the 2013 AFCCG and listen to all those "Omahas," or watch him adjust play after play, check into run after run, in the 2015 AFCCG.

 

Manning cracked Belichick's code a long time ago. No one else really has. Doesn't mean Manning was infallible against him, but the chess match was always on display, and after 2004 Manning never lost a playoff game to Belichick again. He certainly never blew a lead to the Patriots.

 

Also, some love to Nick Foles and the Eagles offensive braintrust for SB52. They stood toe to toe with the Pats and came up with clutch scores all game long. I'm still frustrated with some of Reich's ugly games this season, including the Chiefs game, but he and his staff had a great year for us. I expect them to get better moving forward.

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

He hasn't proven he can beat the Pats, Steelers or a Mahomes led Chiefs team. Until those start happening, we will never make a SB.

My point is he has been to a AFC championship game with a crappy team. When he has been healthy we have went to the playoffs with a crappy team. Everyone wants to forget his first few years and how good he was with no help. He came in as a rookie and won. Why does everyone want to forget what he did when he came into the league.

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

My point is he has been to a AFC championship game with a crappy team. When he has been healthy we have went to the playoffs with a crappy team. Everyone wants to forget his first few years and how good he was. 

I don't forget those first 3 years, they were great compared to the next 3. 12 teams make the playoffs every year though, 8 make the divisional round and 4 make the conference championship game. 1 conference championship game in Lucks career isn't that special to me. In fact, we've underperformed, and that's without the Mahomes problem. Even when Brady retires, our road to the SB isn't guaranteed and Luck needs to learn how to win a big game if we are to make it there. Making the playoffs is expected, it's not to be congratulated. This season was the outlier to that, next year, we need to make a run. We have the cap space and another draft with 9 picks in this one.

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2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

In fact, we've underperformed, and that's without the Mahomes problem.

 

That viewpoint reflects a certain amount of entitlement from fans. Even if the Colts underperformed in Years 4-6, they overperformed in Years 1-3. 

 

Quote

Even when Brady retires, our road to the SB isn't guaranteed and Luck needs to learn how to win a big game if we are to make it there.

 

More entitlement. No team has a guaranteed road to the SB.

 

And I don't think Luck is holding the Colts back, in any way. He doesn't need to learn to win the big game, the team needs to learn to win the big game. From top to bottom, not just the QB.

 

Which is why this year, including the playoff loss, can prove to be so valuable to the team moving forward. It's part of the process. Teams go from bad to the playoffs every year. But no one goes from bad to winning the SB in one season. There are steps that have to be taken in between, and I think the Colts just took a very big step toward SB contention. The next step is the hardest. We've stalled out here before, but hopefully this staff can clear the big hurdle.

 

And I don't think they're afraid of Brady, Mahomes, or anyone else. A well structured team with a top ten QB can contend every year.

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3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That viewpoint reflects a certain amount of entitlement from fans. Even if the Colts underperformed in Years 4-6, they overperformed in Years 1-3. 

 

 

More entitlement. No team has a guaranteed road to the SB.

 

And I don't think Luck is holding the Colts back, in any way. He doesn't need to learn to win the big game, the team needs to learn to win the big game. From top to bottom, not just the QB.

 

Which is why this year, including the playoff loss, can prove to be so valuable to the team moving forward. It's part of the process. Teams go from bad to the playoffs every year. But no one goes from bad to winning the SB in one season. There are steps that have to be taken in between, and I think the Colts just took a very big step toward SB contention. The next step is the hardest. We've stalled out here before, but hopefully this staff can clear the big hurdle.

 

And I don't think they're afraid of Brady, Mahomes, or anyone else. A well structured team with a top ten QB can contend every year.

You're absolutely right I'm entitled. I've grown up winning everything I've done, I've grown up with Peyton Manning as my QB throughout my childhood and young adulthood years, and I continued that hearing that Andrew Luck is the best prospect since John Elway. Anything less than at least 1 SB win in Luck's career is a disappointment. This draft was a Godsend to our team in 2018, and it accelerated the rebuild process. Now we need to make the playoffs every year and beat the Pats and/or Chiefs. We have lots of cap space and 9 draft picks to improve with. The future is now and I'm excited again.

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1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You're absolutely right I'm entitled. I've grown up winning everything I've done

 

Good heavens, guy...

 

Feel entitled all you want, but sports doesn't work that way. You're not entitled to anything. 

 

Quote

Anything less than at least 1 SB win in Luck's career is a disappointment.

 

I agree, but no one making decisions should be thinking about that when making decisions. Just build a good roster and manage your resources well. I don't care about Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady. Everyone is beatable. 

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Not to make excuses, but our guys were literally on a 3 game road trip when they faced KC with rookies at key spots who'd never played that many games in a season in their lives. KC was off and well rested.

 

I'm confident we'll be players going forward. NE just showed when people slobber over QB's who throw 50 td's it means nothing. Solid line play on both sides will always trump star wars numbers. Past Colts teams along with KC just proved it.

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2 minutes ago, IinD said:

Solid line play on both sides will always trump star wars numbers. Past Colts teams along with KC just proved it.

 

Imagine having both.

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I was just watching this again today. The part with Peyton going off on Saturday then laughing because he was miked up. I am just laughing. I hope luck can develop some fire like this. It starts at about the six minute mark.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I was just watching this again today. The part with Peyton going off on Saturday then laughing because he was miked up. I am just laughing. I hope luck can develop some fire like this. It starts at about the six minute mark.

 

 

 

Luck once dropped a profanity. He apologized for it, but hey, it's a start!

 

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I would say the Manning brothers in general have been by far the biggest thorn in the Patriots side than anything.  Peyton has taken them out in the AFC Championship 3 times I believe, and Eli has beat them twice in the Superbowl. 

 

That's 5 potential championships lost at the hands of the Manning's which is still insane being that the Patriots have still won so many championships.  

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12 hours ago, csmopar said:

how many superbowls have the Patriots won without cheating or controversy? I'll save you the time, 0.

1

Wait, So you came online to tell me the Patriots cheat? really. FYI they're playing in the Superbowl this year as well. THUMBS UP! You're a scholar!

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19 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Wait, So you came online to tell me the Patriots cheat? really. FYI they're playing in the Superbowl this year as well. THUMBS UP! You're a scholar!

Nope, I was lurking on other threads as well.

 

and I’m sure there’s gonna be some controversy this year too. Always is

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I agree 100% that in light of Patriots dominance of the AFC especially over the past 3 years, Peyton's performance against them is impressive.

 

As a long time Colts fan, it still burns me that we lost the AFCCG in 2004 to those guys.  I thought we should have handled them but just didnt have the necessary wisdom on how to handle their defensive "tactics" and "style" that day.

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7 hours ago, SR711 said:

I agree 100% that in light of Patriots dominance of the AFC especially over the past 3 years, Peyton's performance against them is impressive.

 

As a long time Colts fan, it still burns me that we lost the AFCCG in 2004 to those guys.  I thought we should have handled them but just didnt have the necessary wisdom on how to handle their defensive "tactics" and "style" that day.

 

And that Peyton was instructed to not audible that day. 

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19 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

Man, I miss Peyton. 

 

Really think he is the best QB of all time. 

Me too.  

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4 hours ago, 18to87 said:

And that Peyton was instructed to not audible that day. 

 

Where did you hear that? I felt that was a factor of us not being able to run against playoff teams for the longest time. 

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1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

Where did you hear that? I felt that was a factor of us not being able to run against playoff teams for the longest time. 

 

I never heard that one, either.

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13 hours ago, SR711 said:

As a long time Colts fan, it still burns me that we lost the AFCCG in 2004 to those guys.  I thought we should have handled them but just didnt have the necessary wisdom on how to handle their defensive "tactics" and "style" that day.

 

I've thought about that at times. The Pats used a similar strategy against the Rams in the SB -- they hit Marshall Faulk over and over, whether he had the ball or not, to disrupt the timing of the Rams offense, and they held the receivers on the outside. It would seem that the Colts would have been aware of their physical "coverage" by scouting them, and been ready with some adjustments.

 

The other factor is they fooled Manning a couple times throughout that game. They disguised pressures and coverages really well. I never thought it was about the cold or the snow, the Pats just had a great gameplan and they were allowed to be overly physical in coverage.

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I've been amazed at the reverence that has been given to Patrick Mahomes in this thread. He's played just one season as a starter. Now it was a heck of a season but it was just that. I remember Nick Foles second season when he got the opportunity to start in Philly. He tore the league up. 27 TD'S and just 2 INT's. Has Nick Foles been able to repeat anything close to that since? No. He did have a great playoff run last year but there's a reason Carson Wentz is the starter in Philly. I'm not saying that Mahomes is about to be benched or anything like that. I do think he will come back to earth though. Just watching him play he got away with some wild passes this year. Next season he could easily throw 20 INT's. I think the kid is good but let's hold back on getting him fitted for a gold jacket right now. He's not Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Joe Montana. He's got potential sure but let's see more than 1 season before we crown him king.

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8 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

I've been amazed at the reverence that has been given to Patrick Mahomes in this thread. He's played just one season as a starter. Now it was a heck of a season but it was just that. I remember Nick Foles second season when he got the opportunity to start in Philly. He tore the league up. 27 TD'S and just 2 INT's. Has Nick Foles been able to repeat anything close to that since? No. He did have a great playoff run last year but there's a reason Carson Wentz is the starter in Philly. I'm not saying that Mahomes is about to be benched or anything like that. I do think he will come back to earth though. Just watching him play he got away with some wild passes this year. Next season he could easily throw 20 INT's. I think the kid is good but let's hold back on getting him fitted for a gold jacket right now. He's not Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Joe Montana. He's got potential sure but let's see more than 1 season before we crown him king.

Didnt Mahomes have 50+ tds?

 

That's double what Foles did.

 

As you say, time will tell.  I personally think the kids the real deal.

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3 minutes ago, Gramz said:

Didnt Mahomes have 50+ tds?

 

That's double what Foles did.

 

As you say, time will tell.  I personally think the kids the real deal.

 

Mahomes had 50 TD's 12 INT's 5,097 Yds and a QB rating of 113.8

 

Foles in 13 games played in and only 10 starts had 27 TD's 2INT's 2,891 Yds and QB rating of 119.2

 

I think Mahomes is going to be a great player, but I think some of the reverence I've seen shown to him is a tad premature.

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1 minute ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

Mahomes had 50 TD's 12 INT's 5,097 Yds and a QB rating of 113.8

 

Foles in 13 games played in and only 10 starts had 27 TD's 2INT's 2,891 Yds and QB rating of 119.2

 

I think Mahomes is going to be a great player, but I think some of the reverence I've seen shown to him is a tad premature.

My bad.  I didn't remember it not being a full season for Foles.  I do now.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Gramz said:

My bad.  I didn't remember it not being a full season for Foles.  I do now.

 

 

 In all fairness I didn't either until I looked up the stats. 

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On 1/22/2019 at 12:45 PM, Tsarquise said:

Man, I miss Peyton. 

 

Really think he is the best QB of all time. 

I 100% agree!!

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5 hours ago, King Colt said:

Peyton vs. Brady?? Someone turn off the wayback machine.

People say this debate gets old and is old but it will never go away because most people think those 2 are the best ever to do it, it's a discussion that will never go away. 

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On 1/22/2019 at 1:12 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

I don't forget those first 3 years, they were great compared to the next 3. 12 teams make the playoffs every year though, 8 make the divisional round and 4 make the conference championship game. 1 conference championship game in Lucks career isn't that special to me. 

 

i agree and i dont think its entitlement.  making the playoffs in itself isnt that special either to me.  i dont throw a big party or anything when teams i root for get in.  

 

look at the texans this year, they won the division, made the playoffs and did nothing, big deal right?  the jaguars made the afc title game last year, that feels like a long time ago now, and i would laugh at their fans for bringing that up.  hang a banner lol

 

i enjoyed this season in the moment, but in the long run if its not a super bowl win im not going to look back and think much of it.  i dont expect everyone to agree, but making the afc title game 5 years ago doesnt mean much to me now

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