Peyton's wins vs Belichick seem a lot more impressive now

[CR91]

Peyton was the only obstacle from the pats making the super bowl for years and now they've made the super bowl 4 out of the last 5 years. It just never seems like a challenge for them to get past the AFC now a days

[BOTT]

8 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Peyton was the only obstacle from the pats making the super bowl for years and now they've made the super bowl 4 out of the last 5 supet bowls. It just nevet seems like a challenge for them to get past the AFC now a days

The just won in overtime. I would call that a challenge.

[CR91]

Just now, BOTT said:

The just won in overtime. I would call that a challenge.

 

Wasnt really much of a game for a while

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Seems like Eli had their number also. He kept them from winning two more.

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Seems like Eli had their number also. He kept them from winning two more.

 

I put that more with Coughlin. Anyone that ever coached with or under BB, seem to know how to beat him or atleast stay competitive.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Had it not been for Peyton, Brady and BB would be in their 6th straight SB now. Peyton got them in 2013 and 2015. Eventhough Peyton struggled during the season in 2015, he still played good against them in the AFC Title Game and had no Turnovers. He got Denver an early lead so his Defense could tee off. In 2013 the Pats had no answer for Peyton at all.

[CR91]

@Shafty138 I mean the chiefs only had 50 yards in the first half.

[Nesjan3]

46 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Peyton was the only obstacle from the pats making the super bowl for years and now they've made the super bowl 4 out of the last 5 years. It just never seems like a challenge for them to get past the AFC now a days

Actually Manning only has one victory with the Colts in the playoffs. Two with the Broncos, but that was mostly the defense. The ravens actually have beat them in the playoffs twice in foxborough also with smashmouth defense the same way the broncos won. The Jets are the only other team to beat the pats in foxborough since 00, same way, smashmouth.  Manning is the only Qb to beat Brady in a shootout in the playoffs though, greatest game ever 06 afcg.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Nesjan3

[CR91]

4 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Actually Manning only has one victory with the Colts in the playoffs. Two with the Broncos, but that was mostly the defense. The ravens actually have beat them in the playoffs twice in foxborough also with smashmouth defense the same way the broncos won. The Jets are the only other team to beat the pats in foxborough since 00, same way, smashmouth.  Manning is the only Qb to beat Brady in a shootout in the playoffs though, greatest game ever 06 afcg.

 

I was referring more recently. The pats have dominated the AFC since Peyton retire

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Actually Manning only has one victory with the Colts in the playoffs. Two with the Broncos, but that was mostly the defense. The ravens actually have beat them in the playoffs twice in foxborough also with smashmouth defense the same way the broncos won. The Jets are the only other team to beat the pats in foxborough since 00, same way, smashmouth.  Manning is the only Qb to beat Brady in a shootout in the playoffs though, greatest game ever 06 afcg.

In 2006, the AFC Title Game was the real SB. No way were we losing after getting by the Pats. That season the Ravens and Chargers were even better than the Bears. The AFC was loaded that year.

[Nesjan3]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I was referring more recently. The pats have dominated the AFC since Peyton retire

Were coming, Luck Ballard and co will challenge the Chiefs and Pats for the AFC till BB and Brady retire. Once Rivers retires as well it will be Luck and the Colts, Mahomes and the Chiefs, and i predict Darnold and the Jets as well as Watson and the Texans will be in the mix lol.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Nesjan3 said:

Were coming, Luck Ballard and co will challenge the Chiefs and Pats for the AFC till BB and Brady retire. Once Rivers retires as well it will be Luck and the Colts, Mahomes and the Chiefs, and i predict Darnold and the Jets as well as Watson and the Texans will be in the mix lol.

We have the advantage over everyone youth wise in the AFC except for the Chiefs moving forward. Luck is healthy and still only 29. 

[Rackeen305]

How many wins does PM have against the Pats? And what games are you talking about? How many rings does both PM and Pats have during this time period? If you are talking about regular season wins then...Big Yay! But if you want the Colts to continue to have countless divisional banners and no Superbowl banner then...ok

[NorthernBlue]

Manning > Brady all day everyday don't @ me

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, NorthernBlue said:

Manning > Brady all day everyday don't @ me

The pats were 11-5 with Cassel when Brady tore his ACL. I agree manning>brady.

[Jaredfor3]

Baker Mayfield looks legit. The Browns are going to be even stronger in 2019.

[Smoke317]

Belichick broke out his old gameplan he used to shutdown Manning and our high powered offenses back in the day...  Tell his DB’s to hold the receivers past 5 yards and get Peyton (Mahomes this past Sunday) to hold the ball until the pressure could get home.  Not surprisingly, the refs didn’t ever call it.  Imagine that.  

 

Mix that with a focus on ball control & clock management to limit the possessions the opposing high powered offense can get all while tiring out their relentless pass rush and you get the results you got last Sunday & against our Colts back in the day...  Unfortunately, Andy Reid took forever to adjust and call more stacks, picks, & rub routes.  Allowed the Pats to get the lead & exhaust Chiefs pass rush. It showed later in the game when they couldn’t get any pressure to throw off Brady’s timing. 

[18to87]

5 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

How many wins does PM have against the Pats? And what games are you talking about? How many rings does both PM and Pats have during this time period? If you are talking about regular season wins then...Big Yay! But if you want the Colts to continue to have countless divisional banners and no Superbowl banner then...ok

Peyton is 3-1 vs Brady in the AFCCG. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

1 hour ago, 18to87 said:

Peyton is 3-1 vs Brady in the AFCCG. 

So the Mannings are 5-1 against Brady when it counts the most? Ouch!

[ManningGM]

7 hours ago, Nesjan3 said:

Were coming, Luck Ballard and co will challenge the Chiefs and Pats for the AFC till BB and Brady retire. Once Rivers retires as well it will be Luck and the Colts, Mahomes and the Chiefs, and i predict Darnold and the Jets as well as Watson and the Texans will be in the mix lol.

You forgot one. 

 

Mayfield and the Browns.

[lollygagger8]

And Peyton didn't even cheat! 

[Roger]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We have the advantage over everyone youth wise in the AFC except for the Chiefs moving forward. Luck is healthy and still only 29. 

Rob Gronkowsi is "only" 29.  Luck takes and has taken a lot of hits.  The window won't be forever.  Colts have to win now.  They've squandered enough time already.

[NewEra]

Don't get me wrong. Luck is a very smart and intelligent dude. But I haven't seen anyone play like Manning became. With his cerebral play on the field. Was like watching Bobby fisher in a chess match. Manning was on a whole new level I've never seen. 

[Yoshinator]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Don't get me wrong. Luck is a very smart and intelligent dude. But I haven't seen anyone play like Manning became. With his cerebral play on the field. Was like watching Bobby fisher in a chess match. Manning was on a whole new level I've never seen. 

Luck is book smart, Peyton was football smart. Luck makes a lot of poor mistakes still that he made as a rookie. I don't think he has a high football IQ to be honest.

[csmopar]

9 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

How many wins does PM have against the Pats? And what games are you talking about? How many rings does both PM and Pats have during this time period? If you are talking about regular season wins then...Big Yay! But if you want the Colts to continue to have countless divisional banners and no Superbowl banner then...ok

how many superbowls have the Patriots won without cheating or controversy? I'll save you the time, 0.

[csmopar]

22 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Don't get me wrong. Luck is a very smart and intelligent dude. But I haven't seen anyone play like Manning became. With his cerebral play on the field. Was like watching Bobby fisher in a chess match. Manning was on a whole new level I've never seen. 

I agree. Peyton could dissect a Defense better than anyone that has ever played.  If he only had half a Defense, he'd been unstoppable. 

[DaveA1102]

22 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Luck is book smart, Peyton was football smart. Luck makes a lot of poor mistakes still that he made as a rookie. I don't think he has a high football IQ to be honest.

 

Luck doesn't have a high football IQ?  What would you say shows that?

 

We have seen Luck coordinate the game from the line of scrimmage plenty this year, to great effect, particularly with Kelly in front of him IMO.  

 

His progression through reads has been especially good this year, which has come in handy with the fact we have a load of receivers who are not starter calibre outwith TY so he is able to progress and find the optimum matchup and exploit it.

 

I can't think of any reason you would have to say Luck does not have a high football IQ.  It may not be as high as Peyton's but that is not a comparison that can be made with anyone.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

Luck doesn't have a high football IQ?  What would you say shows that?

 

We have seen Luck coordinate the game from the line of scrimmage plenty this year, to great effect, particularly with Kelly in front of him IMO.  

 

His progression through reads has been especially good this year, which has come in handy with the fact we have a load of receivers who are not starter calibre outwith TY so he is able to progress and find the optimum matchup and exploit it.

 

I can't think of any reason you would have to say Luck does not have a high football IQ.  It may not be as high as Peyton's but that is not a comparison that can be made with anyone.

I don't think Luck generally learns from his mistakes or has ever fixed his weaknesses. The team had to improve for him to play better rather than him improving. I think he hit his peak in 2014 and is still on that level today. He still hasn't learned how to play Vs either the Steelers or Patriots and has yet to beat both, and now he struggled against the Chiefs. Great teams can shut down Luck easily. 

 

He also makes stupid decisions every game and will turnover the ball in a ridiculously dumb way. He has the natural talent and athleticism to carry him, but his decision making and football IQ isn't the best IMO. An easy example is that I believe Mahomes is much better than him, and Luck may never defeat the Chiefs because he can't outplay Mahomes. Replace Peyton with Luck and Brady with Mahomes and we have the same old dance.

[NewEra]

35 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Luck is book smart, Peyton was football smart. Luck makes a lot of poor mistakes still that he made as a rookie. I don't think he has a high football IQ to be honest.

I wouldn't say he doesn't have a high football IQ. I think Peyton was just on another level above everyone. He knew what he was going to do pre snap  as in completely look off a defense to one side knowing he was going back to the left on purpose. Or being able to see what they were doing and switch it up. Dude was fricken master yoga compared to a bunch of padawans. ;)

[Yoshinator]

Just now, NewEra said:

I wouldn't say he doesn't have a high football IQ. I think Peyton was just on another level above everyone. He knew what he was going to do pre snap  as in completely look off a defense to one side knowing he was going back to the left on purpose. Or being able to see what they were doing and switch it up. Dude was fricken master yoga compared to a bunch of padawans. ;)

It's probably a combination of being spoiled with Peyton and being old enough with Luck to analyze all his mistakes as I was a teenager with Peyton. There's a lot of things mentally that Luck could improve though in his football game.

[DaveA1102]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I don't think Luck generally learns from his mistakes or has ever fixed his weaknesses. The team had to improve for him to play better rather than him improving. I think he hit his peak in 2014 and is still on that level today. He still hasn't learned how to play Vs either the Steelers or Patriots and has yet to beat both, and now he struggled against the Chiefs. Great teams can shut down Luck easily. 

 

He also makes stupid decisions every game and will turnover the ball in a ridiculously dumb way. He has the natural talent and athleticism to carry him, but his decision making and football IQ isn't the best IMO. An easy example is that I believe Mahomes is much better than him, and Luck may never defeat the Chiefs because he can't outplay Mahomes. Replace Peyton with Luck and Brady with Mahomes and we have the same old dance.

 

Luck hasn't played the Steelers since his return and he played the Patriots in Foxborough, on a short week, with an injury ravaged team. Seems a bit unfair to use that against him.

 

The Chiefs defeat was a sore one to take but I equally don't think that all lays at the feet of Andrew, nor do I think a lack of football IQ was the reason for that performance.  Chiefs were just better and it showed up everywhere, including the coaching (which Reich admitted).

 

I would agree that the makes mistakes, sometimes really bad ones.  However, I would counter your argument and say, if you swapped Andrew into the KC offence with the weapons they have, I can't think the drop off would be big from Mahomes.  It would certainly be a different style of offence, but the amount of weapons that get open on that team would be Luck's dream and would easily rack up TD's at a similar rate to Mahomes this year IMO.

[Yoshinator]

6 minutes ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

Luck hasn't played the Steelers since his return and he played the Patriots in Foxborough, on a short week, with an injury ravaged team. Seems a bit unfair to use that against him.

 

The Chiefs defeat was a sore one to take but I equally don't think that all lays at the feet of Andrew, nor do I think a lack of football IQ was the reason for that performance.  Chiefs were just better and it showed up everywhere, including the coaching (which Reich admitted).

 

I would agree that the makes mistakes, sometimes really bad ones.  However, I would counter your argument and say, if you swapped Andrew into the KC offence with the weapons they have, I can't think the drop off would be big from Mahomes.  It would certainly be a different style of offence, but the amount of weapons that get open on that team would be Luck's dream and would easily rack up TD's at a similar rate to Mahomes this year IMO.

I mentioned the Steelers and Pats because he hasn't defeated either in his entire career since 2012. Yes, he would play better on KC, but so would every QB. Luck also wouldn't of had the O-Line he had here. Luck does other stuff too like hold on to the ball too long, force bad throws, throw to Hilton way too much. He needs to stop that garbage. He seems to have gotten over the slow starts with Reichs coaching, but he is still playing a lot like his rookie days. He needs to get over that mental hurdle, and it's why I question his football IQ. Anyone can admit they make mistakes and they have to learn, it's another thing to put in the effort to do so. Part of me believes Luck is content with how good he is.

[Colt.45]

17 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I mentioned the Steelers and Pats because he hasn't defeated either in his entire career since 2012. Yes, he would play better on KC, but so would every QB. Luck also wouldn't of had the O-Line he had here. Luck does other stuff too like hold on to the ball too long, force bad throws, throw to Hilton way too much. He needs to stop that garbage. He seems to have gotten over the slow starts with Reichs coaching, but he is still playing a lot like his rookie days. He needs to get over that mental hurdle, and it's why I question his football IQ. Anyone can admit they make mistakes and they have to learn, it's another thing to put in the effort to do so. Part of me believes Luck is content with how good he is.

You're trotting out so much old tripe, it's unreal.

Holds onto the ball too long? What were his numbers there this year? When the offenses a QB plays in demand that he holds onto the ball, guess what happens? What are P.Mahomes release numbers?

Force bad throws? He does that, I'll give you that. He has the habit of thinking everything is on him and forcing things to happen. Guess who used to be saddled with that label? Yup, Peyton Manning. For years, the talk was that he needed to learn to take what the defense gave him. You don't remember that now naturally.

Forces throws to Hilton? Yeah, have you seen who the Colts trot out at wideout? Seen the All-22? Oh, and this is old tripe, how much was Hilton FEATURED this year?

 

Luck's football iQ, yeah that's mainly a fiction of your imagination. I don't see anyone questioning Drew Brees' IQ and he was pretty poor the last quarter of the year inc. playoffs. Even Tom Brady had more than his fair share of errors v KC, he also had a TEAM that covered them up.

 

Luck went to NE this season with a banged up team and still put up points on that defense. You speak of Pittsburgh, are you talking of the game the Colts let up over 50 points? 

 

My point is: when you speak of football IQ and all that stuff that has little metric or verifiable fact with it, the narratives are usually wrong and not well thought out. Those are individual 'feelings'. Simply not really fair and easily blown apart.

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It's probably a combination of being spoiled with Peyton and being old enough with Luck to analyze all his mistakes as I was a teenager with Peyton. There's a lot of things mentally that Luck could improve though in his football game.

How many games did you actually watch this year?

[DaveA1102]

43 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I mentioned the Steelers and Pats because he hasn't defeated either in his entire career since 2012. Yes, he would play better on KC, but so would every QB. Luck also wouldn't of had the O-Line he had here. Luck does other stuff too like hold on to the ball too long, force bad throws, throw to Hilton way too much. He needs to stop that garbage. He seems to have gotten over the slow starts with Reichs coaching, but he is still playing a lot like his rookie days. He needs to get over that mental hurdle, and it's why I question his football IQ. Anyone can admit they make mistakes and they have to learn, it's another thing to put in the effort to do so. Part of me believes Luck is content with how good he is.

 

Just to go through specific points:

 

I mentioned the Steelers and Pats because he hasn't defeated either in his entire career since 2012.

In almost all scenarios he has had a significantly poorer roster and coaching than the opposition, it can't all be Luck's fault.  He also has only played the Steelers once, in 2014, in Pittsburgh per Pro Football Reference.

 

Yes, he would play better on KC, but so would every QB.

You said Mahomes is "much better" and my point is that surroundings is important in this, which you appear to agree with.

 

Luck does other stuff too like hold on to the ball too long

I don't believe this is the case this year.  Especially early on he was one of the quickest to release the ball. Quote from Ringer article:

"This year, Luck’s average time to throw is 2.61 seconds. That ranks tied for fifth in the league, which is in the vicinity of quick-release artists like Tom Brady (2.61) and Drew Brees (2.57).

 

While trying to see from your point of view, I will need more actual data to back up your assertions, and I have tried to provide backup for my perspective.

[RollerColt]

55 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Anyone can admit they make mistakes and they have to learn, it's another thing to put in the effort to do so. Part of me believes Luck is content with how good he is.

I don't think that's true, just from his work ethic. If you're putting in ridiculous hours of time on your craft, you aren't content.

 

I will also say this: A lot of the interceptions on Luck were the result of tipped passes. Now, one could argue that ball placement could be an issue. I can see that, as Andrew often places the ball high. This can pose a risk if the receivers have trouble making those catches.

 

I remember Joe Montana throwing like this as well. His ball placement skill level was much higher than Luck's, but Joe did throw high quite often. His world famous pass against the Cowboys is one such example. I distinctly remember high passes against the Bengals in the SuperBowl as well. 

 

The difference were the receiver skills.

 

Luck is not perfect, and he will never be. Peyton wasn't either. He had plenty of unfortunate interceptions in big moments. Let's see how Luck does with an entire regular offseason while healthy. He said he plans to continue working on his throwing, and studying. 2019 could very well surprise you. 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

Just to go through specific points:

 

I mentioned the Steelers and Pats because he hasn't defeated either in his entire career since 2012.

In almost all scenarios he has had a significantly poorer roster and coaching than the opposition, it can't all be Luck's fault.  He also has only played the Steelers once, in 2014, in Pittsburgh per Pro Football Reference.

So Luck needs to have a superior roster to beat another top team. He can't carry a roster? Not a good start.

2 minutes ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

Yes, he would play better on KC, but so would every QB.

You said Mahomes is "much better" and my point is that surroundings is important in this, which you appear to agree with.

You can't randomly put Luck on another roster. Hopefully he gets help on offense, but you get the hand that's dealt to you.

2 minutes ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

Luck does other stuff too like hold on to the ball too long

I don't believe this is the case this year.  Especially early on he was one of the quickest to release the ball. Quote from Ringer article:

"This year, Luck’s average time to throw is 2.61 seconds. That ranks tied for fifth in the league, which is in the vicinity of quick-release artists like Tom Brady (2.61) and Drew Brees (2.57).

This is true in certain games. However, he was holding on to the ball for way too long in the KC game and got destroyed. He's still inconsistent in this category.

2 minutes ago, DaveA1102 said:

While trying to see from your point of view, I will need more actual data to back up your assertions, and I have tried to provide backup for my perspective.

You, along with everyone else, have convienently ignored that I said Luck admits his mistakes and admits he needs to learn from them, then doesn't put in the effort to do so. I want to hear you address this one.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I don't think that's true, just from his work ethic. If you're putting in ridiculous hours of time on your craft, you aren't content.

 

I will also say this: A lot of the interceptions on Luck were the result of tipped passes. Now, one could argue that ball placement could be an issue. I can see that, as Andrew often places the ball high. This can pose a risk if the receivers have trouble making those catches.

 

I remember Joe Montana throwing like this as well. His ball placement skill level was much higher than Luck's, but Joe did throw high quite often. His world famous pass against the Cowboys is one such example. I distinctly remember high passes against the Bengals in the SuperBowl as well. 

 

The difference were the receiver skills.

 

Luck is not perfect, and he will never be. Peyton wasn't either. He had plenty of unfortunate interceptions in big moments. Let's see how Luck does with an entire regular offseason while healthy. He said he plans to continue working on his throwing, and studying. 2019 could very well surprise you. 

Good post, and I hope he does surprise me. I'm worried at 29 he won't get any better though. We may have to hide his deficiencies with a better team.

[RollerColt]

10 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Good post, and I hope he does surprise me. I'm worried at 29 he won't get any better though. We may have to hide his deficiencies with a better team.

There are definitely some flaws. He does love to take chances, some very foolish, in the hopes his player will make that contested catch. 

 

If things don't get better as far as decision-making, we'll simply be the '90s Packers with Favre. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It's probably a combination of being spoiled with Peyton and being old enough with Luck to analyze all his mistakes as I was a teenager with Peyton. There's a lot of things mentally that Luck could improve though in his football game.

I completely agree. There's a lot of things he can improve on. I think we should see a big jump next year. My hope at least. He needs to work on the little things, the details