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If they're available...


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1)Ed Oliver

2)Rashan Gary

3)Devin White

4)Jeffery Simmons

5)Josh Allen

6)Christian Wilkins

7)Jachai Polite

8)Montez Sweat

9)Dre'Mont Jones

10)DeAndre Baker

 

If any of these guys fall to 26, I don't see how the Colts can pass on surefire 1st Rd defensive talent. Every pre-draft prospect ranking I've seen has these guys in the Top 15, and every one has Pro Bowl potential. I could see Haskins, Jones, Lock, and Murray coming off the board in the 1st (though I think only Haskins and Murray are 1st Rd talents), which should push some of the defensive guys down a little. I don't see any way that you can take a WR with that first pick if any of those guys are available, and really they probably shouldn't anyways. Out of Kelvin Harmon, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Nkeal Harry, Hollywood Brown, Hakeem Butler, Deebo Samuel, Riley Ridley, and Anthony Johnson many of them are gonna fall into the 2nd and even 3rd rounds. Why waste a pick in the first? Just my thoughts, would love to hear yours. (Btw, there are obvious guys like Bosa and Quinnen William's that I didn't list because they have zero shot of making it out of the Top 5. Also, many of the guys I listed will go early too, this is in hopes that one falls to 26)

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I agree with your list.  And of all of them, I hope Wilkins drops to us.  But I'm also concerned if there's a 1st round run on DL before it gets to us at 26.  If that happens, there's bound to be a player or two that's a true Difference Maker that would have been drafted already, and dropped.  We need to be prepared to take that player, even if they're not at a Need position.  It's hard enough to find Difference Makers at 26!

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9 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I agree with your list.  And of all of them, I hope Wilkins drops to us.  But I'm also concerned if there's a 1st round run on DL before it gets to us at 26.  If that happens, there's bound to be a player or two that's a true Difference Maker that would have been drafted already, and dropped.  We need to be prepared to take that player, even if they're not at a Need position.  It's hard enough to find Difference Makers at 26!

There is a ton of talent at our positions of need this year we should have no problem finding talent at 26 this year

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1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:

I agree with your list.  And of all of them, I hope Wilkins drops to us.  But I'm also concerned if there's a 1st round run on DL before it gets to us at 26.  If that happens, there's bound to be a player or two that's a true Difference Maker that would have been drafted already, and dropped.  We need to be prepared to take that player, even if they're not at a Need position.  It's hard enough to find Difference Makers at 26!

 

I'm liking Rashan Gary more and more, even tho I hate everything Michigan with every fiber of my being. He is slated to run a 4.6 40 at the combine at 280lbs! That's freakish! People down his sack #'s but that wasn't what he was asked to do. I think he could be really special player at the next level, unfortunately every mock I've seen has him in the Top 10 area. I think one of the 3 Clemson DT's will make it to 26, or Simmons based off of track record. I really like Dre'Mont if we're gonna go 3T, because the ER talent will likely be 2nd tier by pick 26. I wouldn't be mad if they went S or CB if we can land the best player at the position (Onumariye or Baker at CB, or Deionte Thompson at S). It's gonna be a fun few months, that's for sure.

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1 minute ago, NorthernBlue said:

If Ed Oliver starts slipping to the mid teens...I would not be opposed to dropping our 2nd and 1st to move up and steal him. He'd be a beast in our defense.

 

And I usually hate trading up. 

Ive stated it already on this board but im 100% on board with this, I just dont want too get rid of our early 2nd. Id rather lose our late 2nd and a late 4th or 5th

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3 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

If Ed Oliver starts slipping to the mid teens...I would not be opposed to dropping our 2nd and 1st to move up and steal him. He'd be a beast in our defense.

 

And I usually hate trading up. 

 

I'd be all for it, also I wouldn't be opposed to moving up for Jeffery Simmons, I think he's one of the best 3-4 players in this draft. 

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19 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

I'm liking Rashan Gary more and more, even tho I hate everything Michigan with every fiber of my being. He is slated to run a 4.6 40 at the combine at 280lbs! That's freakish! People down his sack #'s but that wasn't what he was asked to do. I think he could be really special player at the next level, unfortunately every mock I've seen has him in the Top 10 area.

I like Rashan Gary, too.  Although I have a concern that he may have more talent than motivation.  We'll see.

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Jachai Polite is my favorite prospect of the above mentioned but I cant see him even slipping past Green Bay in the mid teens. He reminds me of Dwight Freeney, explosive athlete with elite dip and bend.

 

I really love the idea of picking Jerry Tillery if he falls to the second. Huge size and violent hands. I think he will make and excellent interior rusher at the next level.

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2 hours ago, Colt Overseas said:

Jachai Polite is my favorite prospect of the above mentioned but I cant see him even slipping past Green Bay in the mid teens. He reminds me of Dwight Freeney, explosive athlete with elite dip and bend.

 

I really love the idea of picking Jerry Tillery if he falls to the second. Huge size and violent hands. I think he will make and excellent interior rusher at the next level.

 

Man lol don't get me started on Tillery and Julian Love, I'd like to have both. Tillery could likely be had with our 1st in the 2nd rd, and Love with the 2nd in the 2nd round. That would allow them to take either an Edge player, top safety, or elite WR with the 1st rounder, but again I'm not opposed to trading up to get a true Pro Bowl type player along the D-line. 

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This is an AWESOME thread

 

I always like to see new posters knock it out of the park.......  

 

Usual first posters seem like they just came in from their lobotomy 

 

 

This post makes the point how much DL talent could be available when we pick

 

I could see us going with a combination DE in round 1 UT in round 2 (first pick) Or.........  UT first....... Then DE

 

 

THEN...... get Butler or Lil  J. Humphrey at the last pick in round two, as our big bodied WR that we very much need need

 

 

 

 

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Can you imagine getting a combination of either realistic scenarios?

(option 2 is a bit more of a stretch, but could happen)

 

Option 1 DE first

 

Pick 1 - Polite or Zach Allen or Brian Burns

 

AND

 

Pick 2 - Willis, D. Jones, or Tillery

 

 

Option 2 - DT first

 

Pick 1 - Wilkins or Simmons - DT

 

AND

 

Pick 2 Ximenes or Omeniyu - DE

 

 

I would also add one or two DT/DE in FA.....

 

To add to the current roster.......

 

We could have quite the DL......... no QB taking a nap waiting on some pressure to come

 

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19 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Can you imagine getting a combination of either realistic scenarios?

(option 2 is a bit more of a stretch, but could happen)

 

Option 1 DE first

 

Pick 1 - Polite or Zach Allen or Brian Burns

 

AND

 

Pick 2 - Willis, D. Jones, or Tillery

 

 

Option 2 - DT first

 

Pick 1 - Wilkins or Simmons - DT

 

AND

 

Pick 2 Ximenes or Omeniyu - DE

 

 

I would also add one or two DT/DE in FA.....

 

To add to the current roster.......

 

We could have quite the DL......... no QB taking a nap waiting on some pressure to come

 

 

There's just so many variables at this point, once the league year officially starts, the picture will start to get a little more clarity. We have so much ammunition to work with, could be legitimate SB contenders next year if it pans out right. 

 

Yeah, I like the idea of hitting defense early and often. Hopefully Julian Love slips down and we can grab him with a mid round pick, but he's likely gone in the 1st three rounds. I'd love for them to go with some combo of DT, DE, WR, but would also be happy with S, CB, even LB thrown in. We need help/depth everywhere. Will be interesting to see who hits FA?

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Great post!  Defense wins championships!  Imagine if the Chiefs defense were better?  They'd be playing in Atlanta, not NE.  Just one stop and they would have won.

 

It's great to average 30+ point per game, but if you are consistently allowing less than 20 each week, then you'll win a lot of games.

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So it looks like this is another cleverly disguised “Don’t take a WR in the 1st. Defense Only!!!” Thread.

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it’s not smart drafting to commit to only drafting certain positions in certain rounds. Basically YOU DONT DRAFT FOR NEED. With the exception of punters and kickers, every position has value in every round. I don’t think a lot of posters here really understand what “deep” means when it comes to a position group in the draft.

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3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

So it looks like this is another cleverly disguised “Don’t take a WR in the 1st. Defense Only!!!” Thread.

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it’s not smart drafting to commit to only drafting certain positions in certain rounds. Basically YOU DONT DRAFT FOR NEED. With the exception of punters and kickers, every position has value in every round. I don’t think a lot of posters here really understand what “deep” means when it comes to a position group in the draft.

 There is a good chance we will have a choice for a good talent and a good fit at DL this year at pick 26. You typically don't have that at 2.2 where the talent or the fit might be gone. I don't see the level of talent and a good fit at other positions in the draft in the late first.

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4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

So it looks like this is another cleverly disguised “Don’t take a WR in the 1st. Defense Only!!!” Thread.

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it’s not smart drafting to commit to only drafting certain positions in certain rounds. Basically YOU DONT DRAFT FOR NEED. With the exception of punters and kickers, every position has value in every round. I don’t think a lot of posters here really understand what “deep” means when it comes to a position group in the draft.

 

What I said is that they should take one of the above mentioned 1st Rd talents at defense, because most of -if not all- the WRs listed will be there with our picks in the 2nd. It's more a post about prioritization, and hitting areas of need while there are still capable players left, rather than wasting a pick on a position when that position would could easily be addressed later in the draft with players of an equal talent level. 

 

But hey, CB, Reich, and Co know better than me (and you believe it or not) so whatever they decide I'm good with. These posts are all based in opinion and speculation; for fun, really. Chastising new posters and telling them they "don't understand" like you're Chris Ballard's personal advisor or something is a showing of little/no couth, sir. 

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8 hours ago, Matthew Gilbert said:

I don't think he slips out of the top 10. He is going to test extremely well and I think he has some very good versatility. I'd be shocked if he made it out of the top 10.

He is an interesting talent.  He looks good on tape, but 276 pounds in the NFL.  Has there been a DT tackle who has excelled in the league at that weight? Kind of a boom or bust product.  They compared to Donald, but I am not sure if I would pull the trigger on him

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3 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

What I said is that they should take one of the above mentioned 1st Rd talents at defense, because most of -if not all- the WRs listed will be there with our picks in the 2nd. It's more a post about prioritization, and hitting areas of need while there are still capable players left, rather than wasting a pick on a position when that position would could easily be addressed later in the draft with players of an equal talent level. 

 

Agreed.  Eventhough a WR might technically be BPA at 26, and WR is a position needing upgrading, you don't necessarily take him if you expect less talented but reasonably valued players to be there at pick 58.   The DTs/DEs may drop off more rapidly by pick 58, so you want to get one/them early even though the WR might be BPA.  That advances the quality of the overall roster farther, IMO.

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4 hours ago, CozyColt said:

 There is a good chance we will have a choice for a good talent and a good fit at DL this year at pick 26. You typically don't have that at 2.2 where the talent or the fit might be gone. I don't see the level of talent and a good fit at other positions in the draft in the late first.

There’s a chance, yes. But remember that other teams are going to have grades on those players as well. Basing an entire approach on the idea that the best players at premium positions will be there is narrow minded, no offense.

 

If Jeffrey Simmons and Christian Wilkins (who seem to be the two premier D-line players that people think might be available) are gone before our picked, then what? And I’m a big fan of those two btw. Who’s the next best D-lineman? Is he better than the WRs, CBs, safeties, etc.. that are there?

 

I’m just saying, keep an open mind. A D-lineman at pick 26 is a possibility not a certainty.

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20 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

There’s a chance, yes. But remember that other teams are going to have grades on those players as well. Basing an entire approach on the idea that the best players at premium positions will be there is narrow minded, no offense.

 

If Jeffrey Simmons and Christian Wilkins (who seem to be the two premier D-line players that people think might be available) are gone before our picked, then what? And I’m a big fan of those two btw. Who’s the next best D-lineman? Is he better than the WRs, CBs, safeties, etc.. that are there?

 

I’m just saying, keep an open mind. A D-lineman at pick 26 is a possibility not a certainty.

 

The way Montez Sweat and Jaylon Ferguson have looked make me certain that we'd be crazy to not select those guys at 26. There are gonna be 3-4 QBs selected before our pick, Haskins, Murray, Jones, and Lock are all projected to go fairly early. That drops 4 guys that otherwise would've been selected further down, not to mention you're always gonna have that team or two that take an RB and WR way before they should (it literally happens every year), so I think the Colts will be able to land a stud somewhere along the D-line. This is speculation, but so is practically everything posted here.

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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

He is an interesting talent.  He looks good on tape, but 276 pounds in the NFL.  Has there been a DT tackle who has excelled in the league at that weight? Kind of a boom or bust product.  They compared to Donald, but I am not sure if I would pull the trigger on him

I think he's way more BOOM than bust. He's going to be able play a number of positions early in his career. I wouldn't be surprised if a 3-4 team wants to use him as an rush LB like Mario Williams. 

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On 1/21/2019 at 7:30 PM, MikeCurtis said:

Can you imagine getting a combination of either realistic scenarios?

(option 2 is a bit more of a stretch, but could happen)

 

Option 1 DE first

 

Pick 1 - Polite or Zach Allen or Brian Burns

 

AND

 

Pick 2 - Willis, D. Jones, or Tillery

 

 

Option 2 - DT first

 

Pick 1 - Wilkins or Simmons - DT

 

AND

 

Pick 2 Ximenes or Omeniyu - DE

 

 

I would also add one or two DT/DE in FA.....

 

To add to the current roster.......

 

We could have quite the DL......... no QB taking a nap waiting on some pressure to come

 

You really see Simmons being there at 26?

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58 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

The way Montez Sweat and Jaylon Ferguson have looked make me certain that we'd be crazy to not select those guys at 26. There are gonna be 3-4 QBs selected before our pick, Haskins, Murray, Jones, and Lock are all projected to go fairly early. That drops 4 guys that otherwise would've been selected further down, not to mention you're always gonna have that team or two that take an RB and WR way before they should (it literally happens every year), so I think the Colts will be able to land a stud somewhere along the D-line. This is speculation, but so is practically everything posted here.

That’s a fair argument if your point is that you think Ferguson and Sweat are better players than the WRs or other positions that will be there. That’s an honest opinion.

 

My only question is what if  they’re gone? Say Q. Williams, Josh Allen, Bosa, Polite, Burns, Gary, Ferguson, Sweat, Wilkins, and Simmons are all gone at 26? Who do you draft?

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8 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

You really see Simmons being there at 26?

As I posted....I think its a more of a stretch

10% Maybe

 

I think Wilkins has a higher chance of being there

30-40% Maybe

 

There are draft "experts" that believe that there will be some early movement in QBs, which should slide some surprising picks closer to us

 

We will see..... I think Option 1 that I listed has a MUCH better chance of occuring

 

 

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On 1/21/2019 at 2:34 PM, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

I'd be all for it, also I wouldn't be opposed to moving up for Jeffery Simmons, I think he's one of the best 3-4 players in this draft. 

 

If Ballard and company were confident his off field issues won’t continue I would be all for trading up a bit to get Simmons. 

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10 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

So it looks like this is another cleverly disguised “Don’t take a WR in the 1st. Defense Only!!!” Thread.

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it’s not smart drafting to commit to only drafting certain positions in certain rounds. Basically YOU DONT DRAFT FOR NEED. With the exception of punters and kickers, every position has value in every round. I don’t think a lot of posters here really understand what “deep” means when it comes to a position group in the draft.

You may be RIGHT about this thread

 

You are an awesome poster that thinks we will go WR with this first........

 

Thats ok, its clearly a need whether we go WR or DL.... I would be happy with either

 

Another way of looking at is a pure BPA, which still may yield DL, I believe the DL available in this years draft, at the 26th spot,would be a BPA over any WR in that spot

 

Some thoughts

 

Many draft "experts" call this draft extremely strong on DL....... In a "normal" year a DL taken in round one at pick 7, may now go in the teens... in this years draft

 

There may be 12-15 immediate starters on the DL in this draft....... Maybe there is 8, in a normal draft

 

Not sure where I read it, but supposedly this is a weak year for WRs. Does that mean that a WR picked in a "weak" year for WR compares to solid DL class?

 

I fully believe that even using BPA, if the "experts" are right, a DL player has an EXCELLENT chance to be BPA in this years draft..... at our pick.

 

Its a happy coincidence that it ALSO fits a need........

 

I would also add the comments from CB saying that he needs to build the lines as

FIRST Priority 

 

He did OL last year.......  If he stays by what he says (Which he has proven to do)....

It would seem to be DL this year

 

FAs DL will be hard and expensive to come by........ that means draft will (should) be his focus

 

At 26, we should be able to get an immediate starter on the DL. every pick after that, the immediate starter availability drops...... do we want to risk that?  There are some excellent WRs that will be available later. 

 

As EVERYONE is looking for a passrusher...... the starters will go quicker

 

So......... who knows how he will go...... I dont, but if you hear what he actually says, it would seem to be DL

 

We will see in a few months

 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

That’s a fair argument if your point is that you think Ferguson and Sweat are better players than the WRs or other positions that will be there. That’s an honest opinion.

 

My only question is what if  they’re gone? Say Q. Williams, Josh Allen, Bosa, Polite, Burns, Gary, Ferguson, Sweat, Wilkins, and Simmons are all gone at 26? Who do you draft?

IMO, you have to consider who might still be there at 34 and whether any player is head and shoulders BPA above all other at 26.  If they are all about the same quality at 26, then you pick the position you DON'T think will be there at 34.  That way, you get the most talent when you combine picks 26 and 34 together, if that makes sense. 

 

IMO, so far based upon what I read, there isn't big drop off in the top 5 or 6 WRs this year, and there is enough talent along the dline to run through the end of round 1.   So if there is still a premium DT/DE on the board that has value at 26, you take him ahead of the BPA WR because another WR of similar talent will be there at 34.  

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1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

That’s a fair argument if your point is that you think Ferguson and Sweat are better players than the WRs or other positions that will be there. That’s an honest opinion.

 

My only question is what if  they’re gone? Say Q. Williams, Josh Allen, Bosa, Polite, Burns, Gary, Ferguson, Sweat, Wilkins, and Simmons are all gone at 26? Who do you draft?

 

Quinnen and Bosa are long gone at 26, so is J Allen, Gary, and probably Polite. I'd draft the top player left on the defensive side of the ball at that point. Whether there are still DE, Edge, or DT players there, or that means going with the top LB, S, or CB. I'm not taking WR because there will still be too talent (in terms of what is available in this draft) at both picks (especially the 1st) in the 2nd round, the same can't be said for top-notch defensive players. 

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10 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

That’s a fair argument if your point is that you think Ferguson and Sweat are better players than the WRs or other positions that will be there. That’s an honest opinion.

 

My only question is what if  they’re gone? Say Q. Williams, Josh Allen, Bosa, Polite, Burns, Gary, Ferguson, Sweat, Wilkins, and Simmons are all gone at 26? Who do you draft?

All we do is make assumptions about how the draft is gonna go until the draft actually happens. Because the DL class is strong this year we are gonna have an increased chance of it being the top remaining player on the colts bigboard if there are no unusual runs on positions.

If there is an unusual run on DL and 15 DL are taken before us  you have to assume we are going to take a diffrent position, but there could be very well also a run on o-line, Lbs or CBs.

You are singeling out one possible outcome out of dozens, which just doesn't seem that likely.

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11 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Quinnen and Bosa are long gone at 26, so is J Allen, Gary, and probably Polite. I'd draft the top player left on the defensive side of the ball at that point. Whether there are still DE, Edge, or DT players there, or that means going with the top LB, S, or CB. I'm not taking WR because there will still be too talent (in terms of what is available in this draft) at both picks (especially the 1st) in the 2nd round, the same can't be said for top-notch defensive players. 

So essentially you’re committed to drafting defense no matter what. Isn’t the inverse of what you said true as well? Isn’t there also a chance because the D-line class is deep that some of the players available at 26 might be available at 26? Or at least the same caliber of player?

 

For example, I love Christian Wilkins and would pick him at 26 if he’s there. But if he’s not, is there that much of a difference in the upside of guys like Gerald Willis III, Jerry Tillery, or Dre’mont Jones?

 

I don’t see the reason for the commitment to defense only. It’s not just about WR. You could make a case for an offensive lineman there as well. What if the Colts don’t want to play Glow, who isn’t as good as he’s made out to be? Dalton Risner is a plug and play starter at guard. 

 

All Im saying is there are other options. It’s not defense or bust.

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50 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

So essentially you’re committed to drafting defense no matter what. Isn’t the inverse of what you said true as well? Isn’t there also a chance because the D-line class is deep that some of the players available at 26 might be available at 26? Or at least the same caliber of player?

 

For example, I love Christian Wilkins and would pick him at 26 if he’s there. But if he’s not, is there that much of a difference in the upside of guys like Gerald Willis III, Jerry Tillery, or Dre’mont Jones?

 

I don’t see the reason for the commitment to defense only. It’s not just about WR. You could make a case for an offensive lineman there as well. What if the Colts don’t want to play Glow, who isn’t as good as he’s made out to be? Dalton Risner is a plug and play starter at guard. 

 

All Im saying is there are other options. It’s not defense or bust.

 

Yes. I'd like for them to go defense with their first 2 selections, for all of the aforementioned reasons, but seeing that my opinion (in the eyes of Ballard, and other various Colts decision-makers) is probably worth zero, I'm genuinely okay with whatever they decide. I'm sure they have a blueprint for future success, and unlike many that I've read on this board over the years, I'm not going to suggest that I know better than them. I don't believe that it has to be black and white; that there's only one way for us to handle this offseason to experience success next year, and beyond. I think they could draft offensive players (be it OT, OG, TE, WR...anything but QB), and have incredible success next year....but if you had me lay out MY blueprints for success, it's via drafting, and upgrading, the defensive side of the ball. You obviously feel different, and that's okay, because like I said, I think there are several different paths that could attain success (just, mine's the best one :D)

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