If you're wondering how good Malik Hooker was this year

[SteelCityColt]

2 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

From actually watching the games, Hooker did not have a good year. I don't need a spread sheet to tell me my eyes were incorrect

 

This would indicate you don’t know how PFF works..

[lollygagger8]

I said it before, but it bears repeating. 

 

Two for sure, if not three of Mahomes passes in the Chiefs game would've been INT's if Hooker would've playing. 

[shasta519]

16 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

In absolutely zero ways as far as football talent is concerned is Collins 'far superior to Geathers.'  He has stayed more healthy then Geathers and he comes from a bigger school and is more of a household name than Geathers are the only areas where he is superior to Geathers.  They both played 12 games last year, missing 4 due to injury.  Geathers had 89 tackles, 1 FF, 3 PDs, 0 INTs ... Collins, in a different scheme, had 96 tackles, 1 FF, 4 PDs, 0 INTs (more or less as close to the same stat line as possible for 2 players on different teams playing the same position).

 

Geathers was named a team captain for Indy last year.  Collins is disliked by most of his teammates because he is a bad teammate.  Watch Inman's interview on the Herd yesterday where he talks about locker room/chemistry/team atmosphere.  He flat out says the Colts and Patriots are about building a culture of a team that cares about eachother and basically every player knows the sum is greater than each individual part.  Collins has no problem throwing his teammates under the bus if it makes him look better to the media (for the short term... Collins and the NYG looked pretty dumb after Eli Apple was basically ridden out of town by Collins and  going on to be a stud for NO).

 

 

 

These takes on Geathers and Collins are just so bad. 

 

First, like Geathers, Collins was a team captain last season...just in case that is how we are now measuring a player.

 

Over the course of their careers thus far, Collins has been a much better player. To say otherwise would be to completely ignore 2016 and 2017, where Collins was one of the best Ss in the NFL. And it's not like Collins is nearing 30...he's a young guy who is only one year removed from being that type of player.

 

So considering Collins is only 25 (nearly two years younger than Geathers)..and hasn't missed 22 games over the past three seasons...I know who I would bet on. 

 

The Eli Apple stuff is nonsense...somehow portraying Collins as the bad teammate. Apple was immature, played poorly, had major effort issues...and even got into a shouting match with his DB coach. Maybe Collins shouldn't have said what he said publicly...but Apple's issues were not a secret. Collins and Apple actually made up...and it's no longer a thing.

 

Also, can you provide any quotes where it is even insinuated that Collins is disliked by most of his teammates?

 

Better yet...save your time and just admit you made that up. Because it took me all of two seconds to find this article from December where multiple players speak very highly of him: https://nypost.com/2018/12/05/landon-collins-possible-last-act-as-a-giant-wowed-his-teammates/

 

 

 

 

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

This would indicate you don’t know how PFF works..

 

I am not sure if anyone truely knows how PFF works...since it is somewhat subjective. But it's good directional information...and typically meets the eye test...like in the case of Hooker.

[Valpo2004]

23 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

You don’t realize how good a safety is that plays the deep pass until they are out.  Kinda like how people took Bethea for granted at times here and underrated him.

 

This, I think a lot of people just rate DB's just based on interception totals.  Which for Hooker he was getting a lot of criticism for prior to the pick he had against the Giants.  

 

But he was doing a lot more that people just don't see or don't notice.  

[Valpo2004]

13 hours ago, cbear said:

Well, I can't make heads or tails of those numbers, and since he plays so deep, how many balls would target him anyway? 

 

I'd like to see a stat about how many passes he broke up.  That might be a better indication of his impact per game. 

 

If his man where open than the QB would have thrown to his man.  

 

If he shuts down an area of the field and the QB doesn't throw there, than he has done his job.  

 

5 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

From actually watching the games, Hooker did not have a good year. I don't need a spread sheet to tell me my eyes were incorrect

 

What are you basing that on?  Total Int's?

[Colts_Fan12]

5 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

We had this conversation in another topic a while back, it’s a lot closer than you make out if you really dig into the stats (comparing volume stats is not the way as hint). Either way its not just a simple “google search”, proper analysis never is.

 

Geathers not staying healthy is his main issue.

It kinda is in this situation literally everyone knows Landon Collins is a better player than Geathers but that guy. I never said Geathers was terrible he just has a bad neck and isn't as good as Collins. I'm not gonna be a homer and act like we cant upgrade the SS spot because Geathers is a good guy. The goal I hope is to get the best players possible at every position. I actually like Geathers and would love to have him as depth I just don't wanna depend on him as our starter.

57 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

These takes on Geathers and Collins are just so bad. 

 

First, like Geathers, Collins was a team captain last season...just in case that is how we are now measuring a player.

 

Over the course of their careers thus far, Collins has been a much better player. To say otherwise would be to completely ignore 2016 and 2017, where Collins was one of the best Ss in the NFL. And it's not like Collins is nearing 30...he's a young guy who is only one year removed from being that type of player.

 

So considering Collins is only 25 (nearly two years younger than Geathers)..and hasn't missed 22 games over the past three seasons...I know who I would bet on. 

 

The Eli Apple stuff is nonsense...somehow portraying Collins as the bad teammate. Apple was immature, played poorly, had major effort issues...and even got into a shouting match with his DB coach. Maybe Collins shouldn't have said what he said publicly...but Apple's issues were not a secret. Collins and Apple actually made up...and it's no longer a thing.

 

Also, can you provide any quotes where it is even insinuated that Collins is disliked by most of his teammates?

 

Better yet...save your time and just admit you made that up. Because it took me all of two seconds to find this article from December where multiple players speak very highly of him: https://nypost.com/2018/12/05/landon-collins-possible-last-act-as-a-giant-wowed-his-teammates/

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this lol I have no idea how to post links and stuff on here.

[Colts_Fan12]

6 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

From actually watching the games, Hooker did not have a good year. I don't need a spread sheet to tell me my eyes were incorrect

Lmao he was one of our best players and was still recovering from his injuries so you are pretty wrong 

[Pacergeek]

54 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

If his man where open than the QB would have thrown to his man.  

 

If he shuts down an area of the field and the QB doesn't throw there, than he has done his job.  

 

 

What are you basing that on?  Total Int's?

He rarely made plays. There is this narrative, that because Hooker played so well, nobody threw his way. I'm not buying this. Hooker was drafted in the first round to make plays. Be a difference maker. He is not one

[Pacergeek]

24 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Lmao he was one of our best players and was still recovering from his injuries so you are pretty wrong 

Colts could easily have had an UDFA replicate Hooker's production this year. He is the most overrated Colts of all time. Usually overrated guys have accomplished something to get overrated, but Hooker has done nothing

[cbear]

3 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

I said it before, but it bears repeating. 

 

Two for sure, if not three of Mahomes passes in the Chiefs game would've been INT's if Hooker would've playing. 

 

Or they might not have been thrown if theses stats speak to that. Mahomes and the chiefs may have had to change game plans.  Either way, his absence hurt, and to me, that's his biggest problem.  He looks very frail. 

[SteelCityColt]

40 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

It kinda is in this situation literally everyone knows Landon Collins is a better player than Geathers but that guy. I never said Geathers was terrible he just has a bad neck and isn't as good as Collins. I'm not gonna be a homer and act like we cant upgrade the SS spot because Geathers is a good guy. The goal I hope is to get the best players possible at every position. I actually like Geathers and would love to have him as depth I just don't wanna depend on him as our starter.

Thank you for this lol I have no idea how to post links and stuff on here.

 

There won’t be many teams that wouldn’t improve if you said you can swap in a (practically) 1st rounder. But that’s not how team building works and it’s not as night and day a difference as you make out. Go look at their per snap numbers. 

 

TBC I think Collins is better, but it’s not a massive margin. Or to make the argument another way. You can have Colllins this year and your pick of 4th round LBers instead of #53. Or Geathers and #53. With one hand you give but you have to take with the other. 

 

Now you could argue.. ahh but we’re talking FA not the draft. Fair. But is the price difference in what Collins wants vs Geathers worth it? Knowing you’re short changing other areas to acommadate. 

19 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Colts could easily have had an UDFA replicate Hooker's production this year. He is the most overrated Colts of all time. Usually overrated guys have accomplished something to get overrated, but Hooker has done nothing

 

You were doing so well lately...

[Lucky Colts Fan]

17 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

He rarely made plays. There is this narrative, that because Hooker played so well, nobody threw his way. I'm not buying this. Hooker was drafted in the first round to make plays. Be a difference maker. He is not one

 

15 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Colts could easily have had an UDFA replicate Hooker's production this year. He is the most overrated Colts of all time. Usually overrated guys have accomplished something to get overrated, but Hooker has done nothing

 

How is preventing deep passes from even being thrown in the first place all season not a difference?  Isn't that how great DBs are measured?  They called it Revis-Island because QBs just avoided his half of the field.  Same with Deion Sanders.  These guys have picks early in their career (like Hooker had in the first few games of his rookie season), then they're praised for the low number of targets afterward (just like what's going on with Hooker now).

 

QBs avoid throwing at Hooker like the plague.  He just takes away the back half of the field as a deep safety as opposed to the right or left side like a CB.

 

Not having passes thrown at him at all IS making plays, because it forces short passes where a guy like Leonard can vacuum up the ball-carrier, which is what this defense is designed to do in the first place.  Hope that makes sense. 

[Colts_Fan12]

4 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

There won’t be many teams that wouldn’t improve if you said you can swap in a (practically) 1st rounder. But that’s not how team building works and it’s not as night and day a difference as you make out. Go look at their per snap numbers. 

 

TBC I think Collins is better, but it’s not a massive margin. Or to make the argument another way. You can have Colllins this year and your pick of 4th round LBers instead of #53. Or Geathers and #53. With one hand you give but you have to take with the other. 

 

Now you could argue.. ahh but we’re talking FA not the draft. Fair. But is the price difference in what Collins wants vs Geathers worth it? Knowing you’re short changing other areas to acommadate. 

Yeah Collins costs more but honestly I wanna look in the draft I'm just not buying that geathers is the same as Collins 

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

Yeah Collins costs more but honestly I wanna look in the draft I'm just not buying that geathers is the same as Collins 

 

Again not saying he is, but it wasn’t as obvious as you make out. I don’t disagree with acquiring more safety talent either. 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Again not saying he is, but it wasn’t as obvious as you make out. I don’t disagree with acquiring more safety talent either. 

I know you wernt but the other guy was. Many dont wanna admit we could get more safety talent. 

[DougDew]

Could some one please explain how Hooker takes away one side of the field......and why he and only he can do that in our defense and not someone else?  I'm not making a statement or have a conclusion ready, I'm asking a real question.

 

But I do think the goal posts have been moved towards his favor.  The rave was that he was a playmaker.  Since he's not doing that, its now that he simply takes away the field.  Now, its not even that, its that he would have made two interceptions in the KC game if he was playing.  The facts or perceptions seem to always move in his favor.   

 

I'm simply asking for some substantiation as to how QBs don't throw to his deep zone (the zone opposite of Geathers) when he is in the game,  but they do throw into that zone when he is not in the game.

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

He rarely made plays. There is this narrative, that because Hooker played so well, nobody threw his way. I'm not buying this. Hooker was drafted in the first round to make plays. Be a difference maker. He is not one

If his man is covered,  he isn't going to make an interception.   Pretty simple 

41 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Could some one please explain how Hooker takes away one side of the field......and why he and only he can do that in our defense and not someone else?  I'm not making a statement or have a conclusion ready, I'm asking a real question.

 

But I do think the goal posts have been moved towards his favor.  The rave was that he was a playmaker.  Since he's not doing that, its now that he simply takes away the field.  Now, its not even that, its that he would have made two interceptions in the KC game if he was playing.  The facts or perceptions seem to always move in his favor.   

 

I'm simply asking for some substantiation as to how QBs don't throw to his deep zone (the zone opposite of Geathers) when he is in the game,  but they do throw into that zone when he is not in the game.

He is much better in coverage than his replacement

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Colts could easily have had an UDFA replicate Hooker's production this year. He is the most overrated Colts of all time. Usually overrated guys have accomplished something to get overrated, but Hooker has done nothing

It's astounding how often you end up on the wrong side of almost every conversation.    

[jskinnz]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

It's astounding how often you end up on the wrong side of almost every conversation.    

 

I think the answer to that is 100% of the time.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

 

He is much better in coverage than his replacement

Enlightening. 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Could some one please explain how Hooker takes away one side of the field......and why he and only he can do that in our defense and not someone else?  I'm not making a statement or have a conclusion ready, I'm asking a real question.

 

But I do think the goal posts have been moved towards his favor.  The rave was that he was a playmaker.  Since he's not doing that, its now that he simply takes away the field.  Now, its not even that, its that he would have made two interceptions in the KC game if he was playing.  The facts or perceptions seem to always move in his favor.   

 

I'm simply asking for some substantiation as to how QBs don't throw to his deep zone (the zone opposite of Geathers) when he is in the game,  but they do throw into that zone when he is not in the game.

 

I explained this in a previous post:

 

5 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

They called it Revis-Island because QBs just avoided his half of the field.  Same with Deion Sanders.  These guys have picks early in their career (like Hooker had in the first few games of his rookie season), then they're praised for the low number of targets afterward (just like what's going on with Hooker now).

 

QBs avoid throwing at Hooker like the plague.  He just takes away the back half of the field as a deep safety as opposed to the right or left side like a CB.

 

The same thing happened with guys like Ed Reed and Richard Sherman.

 

Once they have a season with lots of interceptions, QBs stop throwing at them.

 

Hooker didn't have "a lot" of interceptions last year, but he had an interception in almost every game to start his career before he got injured.  So people just aren't throwing near him anymore.

[DougDew]

20 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I explained this in a previous post:

 

 

The same thing happened with guys like Ed Reed and Richard Sherman.

 

Once they have a season with lots of interceptions, QBs stop throwing at them.

 

Hooker didn't have "a lot" of interceptions last year, but he had an interception in almost every game to start his career before he got injured.  So people just aren't throwing near him anymore. (because he had a lot of picks early so now he has a reputation similar to Ed Reed)

You explained this as fact, as what NFL analysts say,  or as your opinion?  That QBs are staying away from him because he had success early in his rookie career (against good QBs and good teams)?

 

The only two games I can think of where he wasn't playing was against Derek Carr and Pat Mahomes, two of the best QBs in the NFL.  Its not really apples to apples to compare Hooker playing against Blake Bortles and his replacement playing against Derek Carr. 

 

I was just wondering what he does back there that would make the top 15 or so QBs avoid throwing it deep (not to mention NE hardly throws it deep anyway).  Its not a leading question, its a real one.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You explained this as fact, as what NFL analysts say,  or as your opinion?  That QBs are staying away from him because he had success early in his rookie career (against good QBs and good teams)?

 

The only two games I can think of where he wasn't playing was against Derek Carr and Pat Mahomes, two of the best QBs in the NFL.  Its not really apples to apples to compare Hooker playing against Blake Bortles and his replacement playing against Derek Carr. 

 

I was just wondering what he does back there that would make the top 15 or so QBs avoid throwing it deep (not to mention NE hardly throws it deep anyway).  Its not a leading question, its a real one.

 

He's shown an affinity for picking off passes when they're thrown in his general direction.

 

He had an interception in 3 games in a row in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th games of his career as a rookie.  He's sealed a few wins for us with game-ending interceptions as one of the youngest guys on the team.

 

I think offensive coordinators and their QBs want to avoid throwing it near him, but you'd have to ask them. 

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

He's shown an affinity for picking off passes when they're thrown in his general direction.

 

He had an interception in 3 games in a row in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th games of his career as a rookie.  He's sealed a few wins for us with game-ending interceptions as one of the youngest guys on the team.

 

I think offensive coordinators and their QBs want to avoid throwing it near him, but you'd have to ask them. 

Ok.  All year, I've read the concept that he has no stats because QBs avoid throwing his way (now that itself is apparently a stat).  I didn't know if this was a fact that is corroborated by professional NFL types or if this was the opinions of fans.   

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Ok.  All year, I've read the concept that he has no stats because QBs avoid throwing his way (now that itself is apparently a stat).  I didn't know if this was a fact that is corroborated by professional NFL types or if this was the opinions of fans.   

 

Like I said, you'd have to ask the QBs and their coaches if it was their gameplan to not throw the ball at him on purpose.  I don't know that.  No fan does.

 

But if you've watched all his games, you saw that not many passes were thrown his way until the end of games when teams were throwing deep because they were desperate.

[AZColt11]

Love that he's a Colt.  Just like a pass rusher doesn't always have to get a sack to affect the QB, neither does a DB have to get a pick to affect it.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Like I said, you'd have to ask the QBs and their coaches if it was their gameplan to not throw the ball at him on purpose.  I don't know that.  No fan does.

 

But if you've watched all his games, you saw that not many passes were thrown his way until the end of games when teams were throwing deep because they were desperate.

Yes.  I understand now that it's more of an opinion.  

 

Alex Smith is the type of QB that hasn't thrown more than about 10 deep balls in 15 years, so I'm always trying to put the comments and opinion in the proper context.

[aaron11]

14 hours ago, DougDew said:

Could some one please explain how Hooker takes away one side of the field......and why he and only he can do that in our defense and not someone else?  I'm not making a statement or have a conclusion ready, I'm asking a real question.

 

 

the first post in the thread gives the stats.  teams just do not target him very often and when they do they still dont get the completion

 

he beat out all other safetys in completions, so no i dont think a back up would do the same.  he does this by being good at covering his zone 

[jvan1973]

36 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

the first post in the thread gives the stats.  teams just do not target him very often and when they do they still dont get the completion

 

he beat out all other safetys in completions, so no i dont think a back up would do the same.  he does this by being good at covering his zone 

He doesn't think Hooker it's very good.  He also thinks anyone that's tall can do what Ebron did this year

[DougDew]

26 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

the first post in the thread gives the stats.  teams just do not target him very often and when they do they still dont get the completion

 

he beat out all other safetys in completions, so no i dont think a back up would do the same.  he does this by being good at covering his zone 

Is this the deep zone as in single high coverage or half of the deep zone as in a cover 2?  Do the stats say anything about how wide open or not the underneath throw is?  Just a generality, a deep throw has more risk than a short throw, so if the underneath is wide open, QBs may take that throw all game long so the deep safety doesn't get many targets.  If we improved our CB, SS, and LB coverage would the FS then get more targets?

 

As far as completions, do the stats also correlate to passes defended, or could the incompletions the result of bad throws by bad offenses?

 

Not related to Hooker, but in general.  I have a peeve with stats.  They don't really say anything unless you have as much data available as to equate to actually watching every single play first hand.  Stats are what people use when they have terrible information but want to form an opinion anyway.  Like a writer who wasn't actually at the games or watching them but still needs to create copy and support it.  JMO.

 

That's why I was asking if someone in the NFL with actual experience or cred ever opined on Hooker's impact.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

He doesn't think Hooker it's very good.  He also thinks anyone that's tall can do what Ebron did this year

I actually think Hooker is fine.  I'm more noncommittal than many because I don't think there is good information with which to make a judgment.  Others do that more quickly than I do.  Sorry if me not giving in to peer pressure bothers you. 

[Cynjin]

13 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He doesn't think Hooker it's very good.  He also thinks anyone that's tall can do what Ebron did this year

 

I can't speak for other tall people, but as a tall person I can categorically state that I cannot do what Ebron did this year.

[aaron11]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Is this the deep zone as in single high coverage or half of the deep zone as in a cover 2?  Do the stats say anything about how wide open or not the underneath throw is?  Just a generality, a deep throw has more risk than a short throw, so if the underneath is wide open, QBs may take that throw all game long so the deep safety doesn't get many targets.  If we improved our CB, SS, and LB coverage would the FS then get more targets?

 

As far as completions, do the stats also correlate to passes defended, or could the incompletions the result of bad throws by bad offenses?

 

Not related to Hooker, but in general.  I have a peeve with stats.  They don't really say anything unless you have as much data available as to equate to actually watching every single play first hand.  Stats are what people use when they have terrible information but want to form an opinion anyway.  Like a writer who wasn't actually at the games or watching them but still needs to create copy and support it.  JMO.

 

 

stats are not perfect but  do you have anything that points to him being no better than replacement level players?  this is saying that QBs throw and complete against other safetys more than him

 

by your logic you would never credit a cover two safety for covering their zone and forcing Qbs to look elsewhere.  that is what he is doing though

 

his reputation for interceptions has to be a factor here too, which started in college.  nfl qbs have not tested him enough to get a lot of picks, but he still got a couple this year.  i dont think he is great, but he is good and definitely better than replacement level 

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

I can't speak for other tall people, but as a tall person I can categorically state that I cannot do what Ebron did this year.

Jvan likes to tell me and others what my opinions are.  

 

Not arguing, simply now have to point to what I have said:

 

What I said about Ebron is, since he rarely blocks,  I don't see where what he does couldn't be replicated by another receiver who was 20 pounds lighter.  A player with the same height, speed, etc but built more like a WR than a listed TE.  Any comment I made about height alone (provided a player was gifted enough at other things to be on a NFL roster) was probably in the context of a conversation that was talking about being a red zone threat.   IOW, he was being cherished as a red zone threat because he was tall.

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

stats are not perfect but  do you have anything that points to him being no better than replacement level players?  this is saying that QBs throw and complete against other safetys more than him

 

by your logic you would never credit a cover two safety for covering their zone and forcing Qbs to look elsewhere.  that is what he is doing though

 

his reputation for interceptions has to be a factor here too, which started in college.  nfl qbs have not tested him enough to get a lot of picks, but he still got a couple this year.  i dont think he is great, but he is good and definitely better than replacement level 

No, I have nothing that points to him being no better than another, but I'm not making any assertions towards Hooker that require supporting.  I think he is fine and will play out his contract, and we'll see what happens then.  Maybe he'll get extended before that.  We'll see.

 

As far as "forcing" a QB to pass shorter.  NFL offenses are doing that just as a matter of philosophy, to get the ball out quicker....not having to wait the half a second for the deep receiver to run down the field.  Or, it could be that Hooker is simply better at covering his zone than every other defender on our team is better at covering their zone, so the QB takes the path of least resistance.  

 

Others have criticized Hooker for not getting tackles, and cite stats.  I've called that out as being a poor use of stats because that is not his role.  So I've defended Hooker at other times.  

[aaron11]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No, I have nothing that points to him being no better than another, but I'm not making any assertions towards Hooker that require supporting.  I think he is fine and will play out his contract, and we'll see what happens then.  Maybe he'll get extended before that.  We'll see.

 

As far as "forcing" a QB to pass shorter.  NFL offenses are doing that just as a matter of philosophy, to get the ball out quicker....not having to wait the half a second for the deep receiver to run down the field.  Or, it could be that Hooker is simply better at covering his zone than every other defender on our team is better at covering their zone, so the QB takes the path of least resistance.  

 

Others have criticized Hooker for not getting tackles, and cite stats.  I've called that out as being a poor use of stats because that is not his role.  So I've defended Hooker too.  

 

that stat from the OP is also comparing him against other safeties that are trying to do the same thing as him.  teams may be throwing it short more often, but when they do throw it deep they have more success against the other guys

 

i have noticed when teams throw it deep on us they go to the other side of the field.  the patriots game might be the best example this season.  that doesnt bode well for his value in a cover two, but it shows he is doing his job at least

[aaron11]

the thing with the cover 2 is we need two safeties that can cover, and geathers is more of a Strong safety.  so is mitchell

 

farley is jag

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

that stat from the OP is also comparing him against other safeties that are trying to do the same thing as him.  teams may be throwing it short more often, but when they do throw it deep they have more success against the other guys

 

i have noticed when teams throw it deep on us they go to the other side of the field.  the patriots game might be the best example this season.  that doesnt bode well for his value in a cover two, but it shows he is doing his job at least

I get that.  And it is a decent indicator if you have a goal of wanting to judge Hooker.  But incompletions to Hooker's side could be the result of bad QB throws (where we have played some pretty bad QBs, except Carr).  

 

And if teams are throwing it to the other side, that speaks just as much to the quality of coverage on the other side as it does to Hooker's prowess.  We all know we've had a revolving door back there.

 

Edit:  I see you mentioned that just above.

 

I think the bottom line is that everybody would like to see Hooker make more plays.  If we improve the coverage throughout the secondary, he'll probably get more opportunities.

 

 

[SteelCityColt]

39 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

 

I think the bottom line is that everybody would like to see Hooker make more plays.  If we improve the coverage throughout the secondary, he'll probably get more opportunities.

 

 

 

Bottom line, I think some people have set their expectations at Ed Reed level since we drafted him.