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Colts have fired OL coach Dave DeGuglielmo

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5 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Ballard stressed this point in his presser. Someone asked if the KC game highlighted what the needs of this team are. That bolded remark was pretty well exactly what he responded with. We played bad and kansas city played really well Saturday. You can't evaluate this team from that game... at all. Andrew Luck had an awful year, if that's the case. O-line is no better than it was. Defense can't stop the run. Vinny can't make a fieldgoal. Reich sucks as a playcaller. See how stupid that is to evaluate a season's work in one game?

 

I also liked how Ballard is allowing everyone a few weeks off before evaluations start. Cannot go straight from a season-ender to the evaluation process. I loved that.

 

You can't evaluate entirely off one game...but it is certainly a big data point. That was the best team they faced all season...and they got exposed. Literally every issue we were concerned about came to be.

 

There is a process...but the Colts need to be upgrading this offseason in a few areas.

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That's what I was wondering.  The oline coach doesn't make blocking assignments during the game  Maybe Reich didn't have the right personnel, or Kelly/Luck whiffed a few times with their identification.  Maybe Kelly wasn't coached well enough. 

 

I just don't see how the oline coach can be responsible for what happened in one game, unless its a sign of a bigger issue about training.

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3 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

There is a process...but the Colts need to be upgrading this offseason in a few areas.

 

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1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 You say staff.
 Don't you think Ballard can watch a tape, has a set of standards, height, wt, speed, athleticism and medicals in Henry's case, to determine whether they fit what he has developed as his belief system, what he is looking for to build the 4-3 system he believes in? He has talked about it, so i do think he can, does. So they were out!
 We can believe he and Flus have talked long and hard about what attributes the system needs, but i don't believe Flus could have fought for those 2 and convinced CB. Pure speculation of course.  
I do wonder how Basham failed so quickly.

I feel like you're arguing with me when I'm totally on your side. I love Ballard. I know he made the right choice. Yes, I said staff, because it's a team effort. I'm sure many people had at least some input into the idea of trading Anderson and cutting Simon.

I'm 100% agreeing with you...

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

We left Ford completely unblocked on some of those dive plays, which I didn't understand.

 

But just like everything else, it doesn't come down to one person. The OL/protection plans were a major collaboration, so it's not just Reich's fault, nor is it just Gugs' fault.

 

That's true...it was all of them. But Ford eating Smith alive 1-1 was inevitable. And it seemed like they weren't chipping him nearly enough. Though it is hard to account for every pass rusher on a team like KC.

 

Hopefully the Colts can build a DL that has so many impact players...because a great DL can definitely beat a great OL.

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11 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

You can't evaluate entirely off one game...but it is certainly a big data point. That was the best team they faced all season...and they got exposed. Literally every issue we were concerned about came to be.

 

There is a process...but the Colts need to be upgrading this offseason in a few areas.

 

I've gone back and forth as to its importance.  The D?  Nothing unexpected.  It's exactly how I thought they would look against an elite offense.  The O?  Other than the fact we need receiver help, I wouldn't place too much importance on it.  It was just one of those days.  We were off.  Nothing worked.  We couldn't get into a rhythm.  We picked a bad day for it.

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22 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

You can't evaluate entirely off one game...but it is certainly a big data point. That was the best team they faced all season...and they got exposed. Literally every issue we were concerned about came to be.

 

There is a process...but the Colts need to be upgrading this offseason in a few areas.

 

Exposed where? Offensive line? The same unit that took JJ Watt and Jadaveon Clowney and the #3 rushing defense and ran all over them? They had a bad game... Does not define their season by any means.

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25 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

I've gone back and forth as to its importance.  The D?  Nothing unexpected.  It's exactly how I thought they would look against an elite offense.  The O?  Other than the fact we need receiver help, I wouldn't place too much importance on it.  It was just one of those days.  We were off.  Nothing worked.  We couldn't get into a rhythm.  We picked a bad day for it.

 

It might be what you thought...but there were plenty of people touting IND's defense (based off the second half) and how much better it was than KC...and how that could/would be the difference in this game.

 

But the Colts had not faced an offense like this...and it showed. So for anyone who expected these issues on defense, this game just confirmed it in ways other teams couldn't.

 

On offense...I think it just confirmed that this team needs playmakers on offense (WRs and a RB that can make plays in the passing game).

 

Ultimately, this team should be looking for ways to improve the passing game (on defense and offense)...with upgrades at a handful of positions this offseason.

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1 hour ago, John Waylon said:

 

In that case we need a whole new offsense and coaching staff. 

 

One game does not negate the body of work that included making the worst line in the league a year ago into the best this season. 

 

Come on folks, this isn’t hard. 

 

2 more playoff performances like that, and they will.

 

You really think the head coach would be the fall guy in his first year?

 

Next time will be coordinators, next time after that will be Reich?

 

Is this the first year you've followed the NFL?  This scenario has happened hundreds of times in the past.

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9 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

It might be what you thought...but there were plenty of people touting IND's defense (based off the second half) and how much better it was than KC...and how that could/would be the difference in this game.

 

But the Colts had not faced an offense like this...and it showed. So for anyone who expected these issues on defense, this game just confirmed it in ways other teams couldn't.

 

On offense...I think it just confirmed that this team needs playmakers on offense (WRs and a RB that can make plays in the passing game).

 

Ultimately, this team should be looking for ways to improve the passing game (on defense and offense)...with upgrades at a handful of positions this offseason.

 

No doubt.  In the year 2018/2019, when you get to the final three games - KC, NE, NO, LA - you have to match scores.  You have to be prepared to shoot it out.  We need weapons.

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3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not willing to assume it's due to the Good situation. I mean, Reich and Ballard agreed to release Good, and he wasn't very good anyway.

 

Occam's razor: The simplest answer is Reich didn't hire Gugs, they have some fundamental differences in approach, and Reich wants his own guy. 

 

 

I don't think there's any question that the OL can play better.

 

To the bolded - quickly consulting the google machine

 

After consulting google - correctly used in your point.

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3 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Why would they fire him this offensive line just went from worst to 1st that is stupid.

Reich might want his own guy since DeG came over under the assumption that McDaniels would be our head coach.  Perhaps Reich wants someone whose blocking schemes better fit what he wants to do on offense, or the techniques he teaches are more similar to what Reich prefers

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I think it's less about his coaching and more and him and who is is personality wise. Sometimes there are those people you flat out can't work with. 

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42 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Exposed where? Offensive line? The same unit that took JJ Watt and Jadaveon Clowney and the #3 rushing defense and ran all over them? They had a bad game... Does not define their season by any means.

 

I didn't mention the OL...I was talking about defense and skill positions.

 

The OL was a concern heading into this particular game...but only because of KC's pass rushers. It's not a huge area of concern heading forward. They do have to figure out the right side (is Smith a G or T...more depth)...and what to do about LT in a couple of seasons. But those definitely aren't the focus of the offseason...that should be the pass rushing, pass defense, passing game (in combination...not order).

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27 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

2 more playoff performances like that, and they will.

 

You really think the head coach would be the fall guy in his first year?

 

Next time will be coordinators, next time after that will be Reich?

 

Is this the first year you've followed the NFL?  This scenario has happened hundreds of times in the past.

 

So first year coaches get fired after 1 bad game despite 17 good ones before that. 

 

Noted. 

 

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I think position coaches are a bit overrated to be honest.  You got them flipping around all the time and sometimes it doesn't make much sense at least on the surface.  Sometimes a guy coaching an offensive group is reassigned to a defense group and so on.

 

If Reich is also calling the protection schemes, then all you're looking for is someone who can communicate well with his players and teach techniques.  With this talented group, I don't think this is any issue at all. 

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4 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Yeah, one thing's for sure. Whether fair or not, if our line play takes a distinct dip next year Reich/Ballard will definitely take some heat.

That's so far off though, we'll see what happens.

Besides the D coordinator, the Oline coach (based on games) was my #2 coach who I didn’t want to lose.

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4 hours ago, BOTT said:

Everyone thought he sucked when he was hired lol.

 

i dunno, the guy has been let go 3 times in like 5 yrs......

 

Exactly... this hire was initially met with a LOT of skepticism.

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Maybe they didn't want any Pats coaches on staff after last year's fiasco??

 

Maybe they simply honored their one year agreement after it became too late in the off-season?

 

Or maybe they think they'll be better with someone else? There's talent there now, maybe they'll be better.

 

In the end good line players are more important than line coaches.

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Wasn’t he fired from NE at one time?

 

To me knowing his personality this makes perfect sense. 

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4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not willing to assume it's due to the Good situation. I mean, Reich and Ballard agreed to release Good, and he wasn't very good anyway.

 

Occam's razor: The simplest answer is Reich didn't hire Gugs, they have some fundamental differences in approach, and Reich wants his own guy. 

 

 

I don't think there's any question that the OL can play better.

Does this make Eberflus next?

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Probably what happened was anytime Reich or Sirianni made a suggestion Degugle would say, "Well when I was with the Patriots we did...."

 

I know I personally hate when people do that.  I give a new hire three times, when they say it a fourth time I respond with, "Well I'm sure that company would be happy to have you back since you know the way THEY do things so well."  That usually puts a stop to it.

 

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20 minutes ago, SOMDColtsfan said:

Does this make Eberflus next?

 

Is there any evidence that Reich and Eberflus have fundamental differences in approach or philosophy?

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1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

I didn't mention the OL...I was talking about defense and skill positions.

 

The OL was a concern heading into this particular game...but only because of KC's pass rushers. It's not a huge area of concern heading forward. They do have to figure out the right side (is Smith a G or T...more depth)...and what to do about LT in a couple of seasons. But those definitely aren't the focus of the offseason...that should be the pass rushing, pass defense, passing game (in combination...not order).

 

On a topic about the offensive line... sorry for misunderstanding.

 

Literally the only thing exposed was receivers that can't separate. Nothing else was "exposed." Their pass rush was a concern, but so was Houston's. Everyone thought our line would dominate running the football that it would take the pass rush out of the game. Obviously we abandoned the rush early, and it backfired. 

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4 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 You say staff.
 Don't you think Ballard can watch a tape, has a set of standards, height, wt, speed, athleticism and medicals in Henry's case, to determine whether they fit what he has developed as his belief system, what he is looking for to build the 4-3 system he believes in?

My word, I sincerely hope not.  The GM should not have an offensive or defensive system he believes in, should not have any preconceived ideas of standards, it should only come from talking with the coaches and determining the attributes they think are important and watching film and getting examples of what those top traits look like.

 

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37 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Is there any evidence that Reich and Eberflus have fundamental differences in approach or philosophy?

 

I don't think Reich's philosophy on defense matters. Ballard is the one building the team and brought Eberflus on to coach this particular defense. Reich bought in to ballard's vision, and i can imagine even more so now.

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1 minute ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

On a topic about the offensive line... sorry for misunderstanding.

 

Literally the only thing exposed was receivers that can't separate. Nothing else was "exposed." Their pass rush was a concern, but so was Houston's. Everyone thought our line would dominate running the football that it would take the pass rush out of the game. Obviously we abandoned the rush early, and it backfired. 

 

How was the defense not exposed? They gave up more than season average in the 1st half. 

 

I am talking about all needs...not just offense. I didn't hear the Ballard question and comment...but I assumed it was regards to the entire team.

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5 hours ago, Shepman said:

So I was at training Camp and saw first hand how he degraded the players.  That was in public imagine behind closed doors.  He was not the "Teacher" that Ballard and and Reich wanted to build their Culture around. Pretty plain and simple to me.  


No wonder the Pats hired him; he sounds like a perfect fit. Like former NE players have said, their team doesn't have any fun and runs things like a military boot camp. I guess they're winning, so I can't fault their approach.

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When we hired Reich, I strongly questioned keeping Gugs because he is known to be a historically Power run schemed coach. And most of what I read said Reich preferred a lot more zone type schemes. Especially if we have athletic linemen like we now do.

 

It would not surprise me if attitude, personality and scheme preferences all played a part.

 

It might not just be about "getting his guy" but more-so about getting a guy who can properly coach the nuances and intricacies of the zone scheme that Reich wants to run (if so).

 

There was a really good article i read from a couple years back where it detailed how Gugs coached more narrow stances and playing higher up and how it did not work well with some of his taller linemen and took away some leverage. It talked about how it helped w dealing w stunts but made a lot of his guys lose one on one, etc.

 

It would not surprise me if this is simply a replacing of a decent coach w a guy who can take us to the next level technique-wise in the scheme we want to run.

 

Ballard's comment about the big difficulty being going from "good" to great" rings home here. If we want the line to be "great" and to progress then maybe a move was needed.

 

I am sure some folks will overreact next year if we "take a step back".

 

News flash, unless we let up the fewest sacks in the league again, we are going to step back a bit. Numerically. It is almost inevitable. You cannot get better than #1 in sacks allowed lol,

 

But We can surely get better in nuances of technique and the ability to run the ball more consistently. We showed flashes but consistency wasn't paramount. Hopefully the new coach brings some more tools to add to the toolbox.

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Most people dont think about it, but a Tampa 2 D is much cheaper to build and is a good match for an indoor team, because it is built on speed.

The key is to earn home field advantage in the playoffs, so that you can run your speed based D indoors or at least in ideal weather conditions etc.

 

It is also a D that relies on a higher scoring/efficient offense, so that it forces the other team into more of a passing game, so that we can turn our pass rush loose against the other team... now we definitely need a couple of good pass rushers and we will see a big difference. 

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13 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

How was the defense not exposed? They gave up more than season average in the 1st half. 

 

I am talking about all needs...not just offense. I didn't hear the Ballard question and comment...but I assumed it was regards to the entire team.

 

We held them to 31 points... would have been 24 had we not ran into the punter at the end. That isn't getting exposed, that's playing pretty damn well against an mvp led offense that averages 35 pts a game. Our run defense was a little rough, but this was the exception to the rule this season. First 100 yard rusher all year. Again, don't evaluate a seasons work in one game. They weren't exposed. They played bad. 

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2 hours ago, Legend of Luck said:

I feel like you're arguing with me when I'm totally on your side. I love Ballard. I know he made the right choice. Yes, I said staff, because it's a team effort. I'm sure many people had at least some input into the idea of trading Anderson and cutting Simon.

I'm 100% agreeing with you...

 

 Not arguing sorry, more an elaboration on the process i believe is used.
 Follow ups can be used to help less involved forum members gain a better understanding of how, why things may happen.
 Ballards presser point about how our regional scouts look to identify players that fit our system with a defining keep'em, cull'em fabric to their research. As the top dog he set the standards for their mission. And it is a huge part of his bringing in his type of players, and eliminating others from our draft board.
 Didn't they meet for like 17 days straight working on the 2018 FA and the draft? That was all hands on deck, no doubt he uses input from a wide net.

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29 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

My word, I sincerely hope not.  The GM should not have an offensive or defensive system he believes in, should not have any preconceived ideas of standards, it should only come from talking with the coaches and determining the attributes they think are important and watching film and getting examples of what those top traits look like.

 

 

 Hmmm. Ouch. Yes, i saw what you did there.  :peek:

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