John Waylon

Antonio Brown? Doubt it.

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3 minutes ago, ricker182 said:

I really don't want to hear "character matters most" from the guy who drafted Tyreek Hill either.  

  

I like Ballard, but he's full of crap when he says that.

Do you know whether Ballard was the one who made that call?  He was part of a team of scouts and front office executives.  For all we know, he was saying the Chiefs shouldn't draft Hill, but the GM John Dorsey decided to do it anyway

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1 minute ago, 21isSuperman said:

Do you know whether Ballard was the one who made that call?  He was part of a team of scouts and front office executives.  For all we know, he was saying the Chiefs shouldn't draft Hill, but the GM John Dorsey decided to do it anyway

I don't know what he thought either way, but he can't only get credit when it's positive.

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Chemistry is the key , along with, mind set.  Talent is important , but most of all it's a mental game , along with talent. Just sticking with  talented  players on  a team is no guarantee, that you are going to have a great team  Coaching obviously is important , but if your team doesn't buy into  the concept  of the overall philosophy of the  team, then your going to be mediocre, at best. The one point that I want to stress is that with a young team you want them to grow, as a team.  Yes, you would like them to have some FA skilled vets In certain positions , but , you want them to be all about the team, not look at me , I am great.  

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Has brown ever had off the field problems or been a problem in the locker room before?

 

I might be changing my mind on this. Pittsburgh has a lot of personalities and I can see when you have to many it can fall apart.

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You guys better watch what you say about Big Ben. I heard that he treats his enemies, like a lady in a Georgia nightclub.

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22 minutes ago, ricker182 said:

I really don't want to hear "character matters most" from the guy who drafted Tyreek Hill and tried to hire Joshls Mcdaniels either.  

  

I like Ballard, but he's full of crap when he says that.

He didn’t have the choice in that matter. He wasn’t the GM.

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10 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He didn’t have the choice in that matter. He wasn’t the GM.

Then he gets zero credit for those drafts too.  

  

I don't think it helps that he tried to hire McDaniels. That makes me think he doesn't care much about character.  

  

I have no issue with him sticking to his philosophy.  

  

I think the main issue with AB is cost and age. I'd like to have him, but it I'm in the "win now" camp after this past season. I think we're right there.

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14 minutes ago, horseshoecrabs said:

Chemistry is the key , along with, mind set.  Talent is important , but most of all it's a mental game , along with talent. Just sticking with  talented  players on  a team is no guarantee, that you are going to have a great team  Coaching obviously is important , but if your team doesn't buy into  the concept  of the overall philosophy of the  team, then your going to be mediocre, at best. The one point that I want to stress is that with a young team you want them to grow, as a team.  Yes, you would like them to have some FA skilled vets In certain positions , but , you want them to be all about the team, not look at me , I am great.  

Talent is very important.  You can win with average players when you have a franchise QB.  But when you're 3rd. in the league out of 32 in dropped passes you're not going to win a SB with those guys.  The rules now favor high powered offenses.   We need guys who can catch the ball not drop the ball.  Playmakers.  We need playmakers. 

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30 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Talent is very important.  You can win with average players when you have a franchise QB.  But when you're 3rd. in the league out of 32 in dropped passes you're not going to win a SB with those guys.  The rules now favor high powered offenses.   We need guys who can catch the ball not drop the ball.  Playmakers.  We need playmakers. 

Yes we do need playmakers, but not  at a cost to the overall team chemistry. The last time I checked it still a mindset, If and when we do get FA's they need to also buy into the team concept, and to be humble enough to be about the team, not only about  your own goals. Your stats will eventually speak for their self, so you will ether prove  your worth for the team, or go into free agency , if you decide money is more important to you than a Super bowl, then buy all means go to another  team.   

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6 minutes ago, horseshoecrabs said:

Yes we do need playmakers, but not  at a cost to the overall team chemistry. The last time I checked it still a mindset, If and when we do get FA's they need to also buy into the team concept, and to be humble enough to be about the team, not only about  your own goals. Your stats will eventually speak for their self, so you will ether prove  your worth for the team, or go into free agency , if you decide money is more important to you than a Super bowl, then buy all means go to another  team.   

You can get your money and a SB.  Happens all the time.  That's why FA is there.  To give players an opportunity to take their services to another team if their current team does not want to pay them what they think they are worth.  And the teams have the tags to use to keep a player if they want.  Bell held up to his convictions.  I'll give him that. And it's his right.  My guess is somebody will pay him and they both will be happy.   Team chemistry is important.  No doubt.  I think Ballard does his due diligence on every player he's interested in.  He won't bring in any player that will jeopardize the team.  That's foolish.  We don't know the whole story that is the dumpster fire in Pittsburg.  Ballard will do his digging if he's interested.  He knows we need playmakers to get to the SB.  We are just getting started in FA and the off season.  A lot can happen.

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2 hours ago, ricker182 said:

I really don't want to hear "character matters most" from the guy who drafted Tyreek Hill and tried to hire Joshls Mcdaniels either.  

  

I like Ballard, but he's full of crap when he says that.

 

I don't know why some have such a difficult time understanding Ballard's stance on this. If you listen to what he says it's been clear, consistent, and backed up by his actions.

 

After the draft last year Ballard specifically said that he was strict with the scouts with the type of people they drafted specifically the first 5 rounds. This doesn't mean the cutoff is always the 5th round it's just what he referenced last spring.

 

Tyreek Hill was a 5th round draft pick. Even if that decision was all up to Ballard, which is highly unlikely and we will never know, it falls in line with his general approach which is being more willing to take chances on guys with question marks in later rounds.

 

While you didn't mention free agency i'll add what Ballard said today about high priced free agency because it goes along with it...if they were to sign an expensive free agent the player will have to earn it...in terms of talent, production, character, etc. So players who sign cheaper deals (Jalen Collins) are not held to as high of a standard as they would be if they were given more money.

 

I think most teams try to walk the fine line between getting the most talented players you can and getting ones that are coachable, you can depend on, etc. It's not that Ballard is unwilling to take risks on guys but he isn't going to use a lot of resources (high draft picks, huge free agent contracts) when he does take those risks.

 

Just because he has/does take some risks doesn't mean he is "full of crap" when he talks about character. He has a certain way he is going to do it. If people bothered to listen when he speaks they would understand it and not turn a paper cut into open heart surgery. It's really not difficult to understand his approach. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, ricker182 said:

I don't know what he thought either way, but he can't only get credit when it's positive.

If he's the one who made that call, then sure.  But what I'm saying is you don't know whether he made that call or not, but you're throwing the blame onto him anyway

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

He didn’t have the choice in that matter. He wasn’t the GM.

Okay, but what about McDaniels?

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6 hours ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

Your insight is uncanny Mr Obvious my question is what are you trying to say O wise 1 ?

 

Try that again in sensible English. 

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Unless Ballard was just completely lying in his presser today I think there is a better chance the Colts trade Luck than trade for Brown.

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5 hours ago, ricker182 said:

I really don't want to hear "character matters most" from the guy who drafted Tyreek Hill and tried to hire Joshls Mcdaniels either.  

  

I like Ballard, but he's full of crap when he says that.

There weren’t questions about McDaniels character until he backed out on the Colts.  

 

He didnt draft Hill he wasn’t the General Manger.

2 hours ago, ManningGM said:

Okay, but what about McDaniels?

What about him?  His character wasn’t in question until he backed out on the Colts.

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7 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

1. Neither of them have a SB. Brown played in a SB as a rookie in 2010 but lost. He had one cach for 1 yard in that game.

2. T.Y. Hilton has similar experience (only 2 games less), has same record and better yards/game stats in the playoffs than Brown. And Brown will turn 31 before the next season starts.

3. Bell has played in 4 playoff games in his carreer. He had 2 good games and 2 meh games, he won 2 and lost 2. Marlon Mack has 2 playoff games and he had one good and 1 meh/bad games, he won 1 and lost one.

 

I'm not saying Mack is as good as Bell. (Brown on the other side is not THAT good imo.) But anyway, if you look for experience and playoffs production, we already have those types of guys. A bit less production yet, but they are younger, and much cheaper. And neither of them are divas.

 

(Btw, imagine Brown being in our locker room, earning much more than Hilton, and complaining about lack of targets. No, thanks.)

 

Is #2 serious?

 

AB was like 4th on the depth chart his rookie season (behind Wallace, Ward and Sanders). Since then, his playoff stats are amazing...107 yds/game. That's better than Hilton...and we all know how awesome and valuable Hilton has been in the playoffs.

 

There are reasons to not one to bring AB to the Colts...but his playoff experience/production is not on that list. 

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5 hours ago, ricker182 said:

Then he gets zero credit for those drafts too.  

  

I don't think it helps that he tried to hire McDaniels. That makes me think he doesn't care much about character.  

  

I have no issue with him sticking to his philosophy.  

  

I think the main issue with AB is cost and age. I'd like to have him, but it I'm in the "win now" camp after this past season. I think we're right there.

 There was no character issues with McDaniels till he walked out on the Colts. 

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6 hours ago, ricker182 said:

I really don't want to hear "character matters most" from the guy who drafted Tyreek Hill and tried to hire Joshls Mcdaniels either.  

  

I like Ballard, but he's full of crap when he says that.

 

Marcus Peters is the correct counter here. People will say "Hill was a 5th round pick and so on..." but Peters was not. He was mid-1st round pick. In the world of risk taking, that is probably higher than trading a Day Two pick for AB and paying him a second-tier WR salary for a few years.had big red flags.

 

And Ballard was instrumental in that Peters pick. We all know what he has said since being hired though...and that's fine. But he does have some history that suggests that character, in fact, does not matter most.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Marcus Peters is the correct counter here. People will say "Hill was a 5th round pick and so on..." but Peters was not. He was mid-1st round pick. In the world of risk taking, that is probably higher than trading a Day Two pick for AB and paying him a second-tier WR salary for a few years.had big red flags.

 

And Ballard was instrumental in that Peters pick. We all know what he has said since being hired though...and that's fine. But he does have some history that suggests that character, in fact, does not matter most.

 

 

So you assume Ballard didn't learn anything from his past?

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34 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So you assume Ballard didn't learn anything from his past?

 

Not sure Peters classifies as a mistake you learn from. He was DROY and a 2x Pro Bowler in his first two seasons. That is a successful pick...and they were able to get some draft capital out of him. Maybe not as much as one would expect, but not a total loss.

 

Until AB or Bell end up on other teams...all we can really do is assume. But I wasn’t trying to assume anything. Personally, I don’t think he would get either...but looking at his recent history we can’t know for sure.

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46 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Not sure Peters classifies as a mistake you learn from. He was DROY and a 2x Pro Bowler in his first two seasons. That is a successful pick...and they were able to get some draft capital out of him. Maybe not as much as one would expect, but not a total loss.

 

Until AB or Bell end up on other teams...all we can really do is assume. But I wasn’t trying to assume anything. Personally, I don’t think he would get either...but looking at his recent history we can’t know for sure.

You are the one who said in your comment that character does not matter most to Ballard.

Personally I think character does matter to him. All this last draft was made up of team captains and team leaders. He did pass over some that were thought to have more talent.

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10 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Has brown ever had off the field problems or been a problem in the locker room before?

 

He has a long history of having off field problems and being a problem in the locker room according to multiple Pittsburgh sources, former teammates, local media people etc. His recent disappearance wasn't his first, he did it before, not once, not twice. Former teammates say that the moment he got his big contract, he started acting like a celebrity. During practices he called out defensive players who he thought were "too physical" on him, saying he is too important now for the team to be hurt. He was also regulartly late from meetings, etc. On the other hand, people say he is extremely hard worker, when he has the mood. Guess what, I am a hard worker when I have the mood lol. :D

 

Honestly, I think some of his (and other Steelers players) issues might be the result of being in a locker room, which has been badly mismanaged in recent years. If you see other players getting a pass on not showing up, being late, calling out teammates for whatever reasons, publicly throwing each other under the bus after games, etc., you pick up that mentality.

 

But anyway, Brown will turn 31 before the 2019 season starts. He might have 2, maybe 3 good years left in the tank, but not much more. If he was a free agent, that would be a different situation, but he is not. The Steelers want a high draft pick for him. No, thanks.

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13 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

I should've been more precise how i meant THAT good. I often see people talking about him as one of the best receiver ever. I think THAT is overstatement. He is one of the best of his time, but definitely not one of the best ever.

 

Lets stop this notion right here. Antonio Brown is one of the best receivers to EVER play the game. Im certainly willing to here how hes not a fit in the locker room, contract value isnt worth it and off-field issues but the narrative that he inst THAT good is 1000000% wrong.

 

For reference Marvin Harrison is widely considered to be in the top 10 (top 5 by many) WRs of all time. Here are the comparisons through 9 years of their careers. 

 

image.png.696177a50ab856bb63c2353619c1ad86.png

 

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13 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Do you know whether Ballard was the one who made that call?  He was part of a team of scouts and front office executives.  For all we know, he was saying the Chiefs shouldn't draft Hill, but the GM John Dorsey decided to do it anyway

 

13 hours ago, ricker182 said:

I don't know what he thought either way, but he can't only get credit when it's positive.

 

13 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

He didn’t have the choice in that matter. He wasn’t the GM.

 

CB did play an important roll in bringing in Hill, though he didnt make the final call.  he made a very deep personality profile on him and went to interview him in person at his home too.  after thoroughly investigating ballard went back to the team and gave them the report which said they thought TH would be ok behavior wise

 

i found one link that mentions this briefly, but this was in the news when the colts hired ballard too, thats why i remembered 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-tyreek-hill-biggs-nfl-playoffs-spt-0115-20170114-column.html

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16 hours ago, aavmarine said:

God forbid we get 2 guys on this team that know how to win, have been to plenty of playoffs experience, at the top of their positions every year, and have a SB. No, that won't  help us win.

Previous experience does not dictate the future.

 

How old is Brown and who was the steelers leading receiver this year?

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40 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Previous experience does not dictate the future.

 

How old is Brown and who was the steelers leading receiver this year?

Do I think AB would help our offense in a huge way? 100% definitely. As for his age, he is only a few months older than TY, if I'm not mistaken...and only has 3 years left on his contract. 

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I feel that we have a good, young base...now we need some top quality vets to get us over the hump.

Yes, drafting a WR could help long term, but that would be an unknown and AB is already a known all pro...and I'd like to get over the hump before Luck is in his mid to late 30s. I feel like AB and even Bell could definitely help do that...and then sign a few key pieces on D if they hit the market...and draft to fill in the blanks.

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Culture and great locker room guys are way overrated. How did culture help when we were getting embarrassed by KC. We need difference makers, and they might carry some baggage. Big deal. 

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7 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

You are the one who said in your comment that character does not matter most to Ballard.

Personally I think character does matter to him. All this last draft was made up of team captains and team leaders. He did pass over some that were thought to have more talent.

 

I did not say "character doesn't matter" to Ballard...it obviously does. I just said there are instances where it didn't matter most.

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2 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

Lets stop this notion right here. Antonio Brown is one of the best receivers to EVER play the game. Im certainly willing to here how hes not a fit in the locker room, contract value isnt worth it and off-field issues but the narrative that he inst THAT good is 1000000% wrong.

 

For reference Marvin Harrison is widely considered to be in the top 10 (top 5 by many) WRs of all time. Here are the comparisons through 9 years of their careers. 

 

image.png.696177a50ab856bb63c2353619c1ad86.png

 

 

AB is definitely one of the best ever. I love Marvin...but any list he is on...AB is on as well...or a couple more productive years from it.

 

There are definitely reasons to not want him...but none of them should related to anything that happens on the field. 

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10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

There weren’t questions about McDaniels character until he backed out on the Colts.  

 

 

He did feud with with lot of players and even his own staff in Denver and of course got caught (well assistant got caught) in videotaping practices of his teams opponent.

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2 hours ago, Narcosys said:

Previous experience does not dictate the future.

 

How old is Brown and who was the steelers leading receiver this year?

Ben had the luxury of having two outstanding WR's to throw to.  One could make the argument that if he is having personal issues with one of them the other guy is going to get the ball more.  It's just human nature.  

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33 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I did not say "character doesn't matter" to Ballard...it obviously does. I just said there are instances where it didn't matter most.

 

Ehh... They took great care to check off Peters' character before drafting him. If they weren't confident that he'd fly straight they wouldn't have drafted him.

 

Saying 'character matters most' doesn't mean they'll never invest in a player with character concerns. It means they need to check those character concerns off before investing in him.

 

And the calculus for the 2015 Chiefs was different than it was for the 2018 Colts. They had a well established locker room and coaching staff, and a pretty good roster. They had more room to take a chance on a questionable player in the first round.

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1 hour ago, coltsblue1844 said:

Do I think AB would help our offense in a huge way? 100% definitely. As for his age, he is only a few months older than TY, if I'm not mistaken...and only has 3 years left on his contract. 

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I feel that we have a good, young base...now we need some top quality vets to get us over the hump.

Yes, drafting a WR could help long term, but that would be an unknown and AB is already a known all pro...and I'd like to get over the hump before Luck is in his mid to late 30s. I feel like AB and even Bell could definitely help do that...and then sign a few key pieces on D if they hit the market...and draft to fill in the blanks.

Meanwhile he is no longer the #1 on his team and just like TY is a risk to sign a 31 year olds receiver with lots of miles, and not for cheap. Plus we would have give up tons of picks. More than id be willing.

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21 hours ago, Flash7 said:

I feel like there are 2 types of people:

 

1. People on this forum that want Bell/Brown type of signing.

 

2. Ballard - and those who understand him.

<-- Boom.

 

15 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Has brown ever had off the field problems or been a problem in the locker room before?

 

I might be changing my mind on this. Pittsburgh has a lot of personalities and I can see when you have to many it can fall apart.

This gives a little insight into AB:

 

1 hour ago, Pacergeek said:

Culture and great locker room guys are way overrated. How did culture help when we were getting embarrassed by KC. We need difference makers, and they might carry some baggage. Big deal. 

Culture is what helped us go 9-1 after starting 1-5. We also weren't "supposed to" be in the playoffs either. KC was just the better team. We absolutely need more talent, but it can't be at the detriment of your locker room culture. One thing the guys on our team cited time after time as being the single most impactful reason we were winning was the overall mindset that each player had. They knew nobody was above the team and trusted each other to play team ball.

 

Baggage isn't the issue. Mindset and attitude are what Ballard is looking for. AB isn't a team guy and isn't someone that would help this team in the long run.

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Oh dear, no to Bell and no to AB as far as I'm concerned. They don't fit what we are trying to do at all.

16 hours ago, ricker182 said:

I really don't want to hear "character matters most" from the guy who drafted Tyreek Hill and tried to hire Joshls Mcdaniels either.  

  

I like Ballard, but he's full of crap when he says that.

 

And look at how Tyreek is turning out to be, fine young man who made a mistake, Ballard does his homework, don't forget that. 

Mcdaniels is a different thing, don't know enough to comment.

 

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17 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

He did feud with with lot of players and even his own staff in Denver and of course got caught (well assistant got caught) in videotaping practices of his teams opponent.

 

Yeah, there were concerns about McDaniels' personality and temperament for sure. Not necessarily 'will he do something stupid and get suspended,' but definitely 'can he lead a team as the head coach' kind of questions.

 

He did a lot to portray himself as someone who had grown and changed, and maybe he has, but the way he handled the Colts situation undermined much of the work he did. Peter King recently reported that the Colts situation combined with the history in Denver probably resulted in McDaniels only getting one interview this year, and that he probably wasn't close to getting that job.

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2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

 

 

 

CB did play an important roll in bringing in Hill, though he didnt make the final call.  he made a very deep personality profile on him and went to interview him in person at his home too.  after thoroughly investigating ballard went back to the team and gave them the report which said they thought TH would be ok behavior wise

 

i found one link that mentions this briefly, but this was in the news when the colts hired ballard too, thats why i remembered 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-tyreek-hill-biggs-nfl-playoffs-spt-0115-20170114-column.html

My interpretation after briefly reading that article is that Ballard was part of the vetting process.  It doesn't say Ballard wanted him.  For all we know, Ballard was part of the vetting process and his conclusion was that the Chiefs shouldn't draft Hill, but Dorsey decided against that and drafted him anyway.  I don't know either way.  All I'm saying is it's not a reasonable conclusion to say that because Ballard was part of the front office that drafted Hill, then he has no right to say he wants high character players here in Indy

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6 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

My interpretation after briefly reading that article is that Ballard was part of the vetting process.  It doesn't say Ballard wanted him.  For all we know, Ballard was part of the vetting process and his conclusion was that the Chiefs shouldn't draft Hill, but Dorsey decided against that and drafted him anyway.  I don't know either way.  All I'm saying is it's not a reasonable conclusion to say that because Ballard was part of the front office that drafted Hill, then he has no right to say he wants high character players here in Indy

 

His job in KC was also different. It was to look for players that Reid/Dorsey want or were willing to accept.

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12 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

My interpretation after briefly reading that article is that Ballard was part of the vetting process.  It doesn't say Ballard wanted him.  For all we know, Ballard was part of the vetting process and his conclusion was that the Chiefs shouldn't draft Hill, but Dorsey decided against that and drafted him anyway.  I don't know either way.  All I'm saying is it's not a reasonable conclusion to say that because Ballard was part of the front office that drafted Hill, then he has no right to say he wants high character players here in Indy

 

that article was brief, but ballard was very involved with that pick.  he talked about hill in detail during a verbal interview at one point, thats what i was trying to explain.  he personally made a detailed personalty report on hill, and that was the main reason they went ahead and drafted him

 

i posted this because some were questioning if he was even involved with that decision, he was in fact the main reason they did it.  no one was closer to tyrek hill in the chiefs scouting process than chris ballard

 

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