Vinny

[zibby43]

1-year deal or time to sign/draft a young placekicker?

 

I’m inclined to bring him back, if he wants to be back.  But it’s at the point that he could literally lose “it” at any moment.  

 

Also, although this is a somber topic, Vinny is the GOAT.  

[twfish]

From what I could tell its was all on Sanchez and looked like bad holds for sure.... laces weren't facing straight

[Flash7]

He said he would like to take a week or two to make a decision whether he will return or not. He admitted that the trajectory of the team is a factor in the decision. He likes where they're headed.

[coltfaninnewyork]

I would if price is right but if a younger guy comes in to compete ,and kicks well I would go with younger guy 

[ColtsLegacy]

14 minutes ago, twfish said:

From what I could tell its was all on Sanchez and looked like bad holds for sure.... laces weren't facing straight

 

False. He bobbled it but was able to get it down just fine. Don't deflect the blame.

[Jackie Daytona]

time is probably up

 

[HectorRoberts]

15 minutes ago, coltfaninnewyork said:

I would if price is right but if a younger guy comes in to compete ,and kicks well I would go with younger guy 

I would keep vinny over any younger guy but I definitely agree we need to start looking for a vinny successor and find a way to stash him away.

[Jackie Daytona]

2 minutes ago, HectorRoberts said:

I would keep vinny over any younger guy but I definitely agree we need to start looking for a vinny successor and find a way to stash him away.

stop cutting them after camp....lol

 

[HectorRoberts]

1 minute ago, Shafty138 said:

stop cutting them after camp....lol

 

Haha no kidding bagely (probably butchered the spelling) was a hard one to see go!

[Jackie Daytona]

he's one of several the last few years!

[neug3246]

not popular opinion let AV walk. Also side note I am sick and tired of having a so called great kicker miss kicks in post season play

[ReMeDy]

How does everyone feel about luring Pat McAfee back to us, only this time as a kicker? He clearly loves the Colts, and talked about playing the position in the past. We have a ton of cap space, and the locker room leadership he could bring would be huge. We could also have him do onside kicks for us as needed.

[deedub75]

Time to move on. 

[richard pallo]

He was dealing with an nagging injury at the end of the season.  Probably comes with age.  I found myself holding my breath every time he kicked an extra point or field goal at the end of the season.  Imagine how many kicks he takes during a season.  A lot I'm sure.  I'm betting he retires.   I hope he doesn't wait for us to cut him during the season.  It's just a matter of time. 

[zibby43]

51 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

time is probably up

 

 

Why did you respond with a "confused" response to my initial question?

 

That has me confused.

[zibby43]

31 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

How does everyone feel about luring Pat McAfee back to us, only this time as a kicker? He clearly loves the Colts, and talked about playing the position in the past. We have a ton of cap space, and the locker room leadership he could bring would be huge. We could also have him do onside kicks for us as needed.

 

He's 100% done.  He doesn't want to come back. 

[MPStack]

33 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

How does everyone feel about luring Pat McAfee back to us, only this time as a kicker? He clearly loves the Colts, and talked about playing the position in the past. We have a ton of cap space, and the locker room leadership he could bring would be huge. We could also have him do onside kicks for us as needed.

 

[RollerColt]

I hate that we have to have this conversation. But it was going to happen eventually. No one is immortal. 

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, RollerColt said:

I hate that we have to have this conversation. But it was going to happen eventually. No one is immortal. 

 

Agreed

 

I hope AV retires. Turn the page and move on.

 

 

[Nesjan3]

I would hope next season if he is kicking for us in the playoffs something like today doesn't happen again. 

[GoColts8818]

41 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

How does everyone feel about luring Pat McAfee back to us, only this time as a kicker? He clearly loves the Colts, and talked about playing the position in the past. We have a ton of cap space, and the locker room leadership he could bring would be huge. We could also have him do onside kicks for us as needed.

Pat’s not coming back.  Part of the reason he retired was he was tired of having surgery.  Being a kicker isn’t going to lesson the wear and tear on his leg.  Also, he wasn’t that great of a kicker in college and hasn’t regularly done it since which will be over 10 years ago when the season starts.

 

I think the Colts to seriously think about moving on from AV but Pat isn’t the answer.

[GoColts8818]

I am normally the guy who defends Adam but he’s had more moments this season that leave you scratching your head than he normally does.  Maybe that’s the injury.  I don’t know.  I just know I am glad I am not Ballard and I don’t have to make that call.

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, HectorRoberts said:

I would keep vinny over any younger guy but I definitely agree we need to start looking for a vinny successor and find a way to stash him away.

There isn’t really a way to stash them.  If you use a practice squad spot on a kicker another team can sign them if they want and they aren’t going to use one of their 53 man roster spots on a kicker who isn’t going to play and is just being stashed for the future.  

[SLILLINGTON10]

My bet is that Frank, Chris, and Jim will leave it 100% up to AV if he wants to come back or not. I don't see him being pushed out for someone unproven and younger if he still wants to play.

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, SLILLINGTON10 said:

My bet is that Frank, Chris, and Jim will leave it 100% up to AV if he wants to come back or not. I don't see him being pushed out for someone unproven and younger if he still wants to play.

Jim Irsay cut Peyton Manning because it was best for the team.  He did the same with Marvin and let Edge, Wayne, Saturday, and, Freeney walk because they were done or very close to it.  If he has to move on from AV because he thinks he’s done he will do it.  

[SLILLINGTON10]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Jim Irsay cut Peyton Manning because it was best for the team.  He did the same with Marvin and let Edge, Wayne, Saturday, and, Freeney walk because they were done or very close to it.  If he has to move on from AV because he thinks he’s done he will do it.  

Irsay cut Peyton because Andrew was going to be drafted. I honestly believe Peyton asked Irsay to release him so that he could move on and compete for a SB while the Colts gave Luck the chance to start his own era.  Either way there is no sure fire kicker waiting to be drafted or in the wings to replace AV so that is a very different situation. The rest of the examples you named have a lot to do with money and giving other younger players on the team a chance to step up. AV is still relatively cheap from a salary cap perspective, still kicking at a high level compared to the rest of the NFL, and lastly he is widely considered the greatest player at his position of all time. None of the above are even in the argument for best at their position outside of Manning.  

[GoColts8818]

Just now, SLILLINGTON10 said:

Irsay cut Peyton because Andrew was going to be drafted. I honestly believe Peyton asked Irsay to release him so that he could move on and compete for a SB while the Colts gave Luck the chance to start his own era.  Either way there is no sure fire kicker waiting to be drafted or in the wings to replace AV so that is a very different situation. The rest of the examples you named have a lot to do with money and giving other younger players on the team a chance to step up. AV is still relatively cheap from a salary cap perspective, still kicking at a high level compared to the rest of the NFL, and lastly he is widely considered the greatest player at his position of all time. None of the above are even in the argument for best at their position outside of Manning.  

Irsay cut Peyton and drafted Andrew because it was best for the team.  If getting a new kicker is best for the team Irsay will do it.  I don’t know if it is or not that’s for Chris Ballard to decide.  One thing Irsay has shown is it doesn’t matter who you are if the best thing for the team is to move on from you he will.  He isn’t going to keep someone out of sentimental value if he doesn’t think he will help the team.  

 

Adam is the greatest kicker of all time but he isn’t the greatest kicker in the NFL today.  When Marvin, Edge, Reggie, Freeney, Saturday, and Wayne were at their peeks they were some of it not the top guys at their positions in the NFL and will be serious contenders for the Hall of Fame, and in Marvin’s case is already in.  When it came time to move on they weren’t anymore.  That’s why it was time to move on.  Also, Marvin was the only one released for cap space.  The others were all free agents that the Colts could have kept had they wanted too and felt they were worth the money.  They all went on to sign fairly cheap contracts else were and with the experience of Freeney and Edge were out of the NFL in a year.  Include Marvin in that list because no one signed him when the Colts cut him.  The reason he was expendable was because he was done.  So no they weren’t money saving moves.  They were at the end of their careers.  

 

I dont know if Adam is or not, again, that’s up to Ballard to decide.  If Ballard thinks he is Irsay isn’t going to keep Adam just because of what he’s done in the past.  Now if Ballard thinks Adam can still play and is worth the price tag of course the Colts will bring him back.  I don’t think it’s the slam dunk decession it’s been in the past though.  I defentally don’t think it’s soley up to Adam either unless he decide to retire.

[threeflight]

3 hours ago, zibby43 said:

1-year deal or time to sign/draft a young placekicker?

 

I’m inclined to bring him back, if he wants to be back.  But it’s at the point that he could literally lose “it” at any moment.  

 

Also, although this is a somber topic, Vinny is the GOAT.  

He is gone imo.

 

No questions asked.

 

He looks like Santa Claus.

 

Love him him today, and the season really, showed to me that he needs to be replaced.

 

I said in the pre season and again last week, would have been great to have kept Badgley somehow.

[SLILLINGTON10]

6 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Irsay cut Peyton and drafted Andrew because it was best for the team.  If getting a new kicker is best for the team Irsay will do it.  I don’t know if it is or not that’s for Chris Ballard to decide.  One thing Irsay has shown is it doesn’t matter who you are if the best thing for the team is to move on from you he will.  He isn’t going to keep someone out of sentimental value if he doesn’t think he will help the team.  

 

Adam is the greatest kicker of all time but he isn’t the greatest kicker in the NFL today.  When Marvin, Edge, Reggie, Freeney, Saturday, and Wayne were at their peeks they were some of it not the top guys at their positions in the NFL and will be serious contenders for the Hall of Fame, and in Marvin’s case is already in.  When it came time to move on they weren’t anymore.  That’s why it was time to move on.  Also, Marvin was the only one released for cap space.  The others were all free agents that the Colts could have kept had they wanted too and felt they were worth the money.  They all went on to sign fairly cheap contracts else were and with the experience of Freeney and Edge were out of the NFL in a year.  Include Marvin in that list because no one signed him when the Colts cut him.  The reason he was expendable was because he was done.  So no they weren’t money saving moves.  They were at the end of their careers.  

 

I dont know if Adam is or not, again, that’s up to Ballard to decide.  If Ballard thinks he is Irsay isn’t going to keep Adam just because of what he’s done in the past.  Now if Ballard thinks Adam can still play and is worth the price tag of course the Colts will bring him back.  I don’t think it’s the slam dunk decession it’s been in the past though.  I defentally don’t think it’s soley up to Adam either unless he decide to retire.

Your logic honestly, is very sound. I won't argue the fact that Irsay and Co won't do what is best for the team in regards to taking care of one player. I guess the point I am trying to make adjacent to yours is that in most of the examples you named, what was best for the team was clear and easy to follow the decision. Marvin wanted a big pay day when he was on the decline and the team and Reggie, same with Freeney with Mathis, and Reggie with TY, ect. Luck was the chosen one who was going to sit upon the thrown of the NFL while Peyton still had nerve damage after multiple operations and had a noodle for an arm. Those choices for the team are a bit easier to make with your head than your heart. AV on the other hand is still a top tier kicker today (not literally 'today' as it was a rough outing for him in KC), not asking for a big payday, and there is no one on the radar to replace him. I believe those are the reasons why it will his choice. Unless Sanchez can kick FG or something I am missing?

[GoColts8818]

21 minutes ago, SLILLINGTON10 said:

Marvin was still under contract.  He’s the one that got released.  Yes it saved them money but the reason he was cut was because he was done.  That’s why no one else picked him up after.  Marvin wasn’t let go because he wanted a big contract he already had that.  He was cut because he wasn’t the same guy he used to be.  

 

Wayne and Freeney weren’t looking for big deals either, both made it known they wanted to be here and were willing to take cheaper deals to stay.  Both were surprised that Grigson didn’t even call to talk about their contracts.  That means it’s wasnt the money it was the production.  Again, both guys weren’t what they used to be and in Freeney’s case no longer fit the defense.  

 

Mathis I left off the list on purpose because he’s the one that retired a Colt.  Now when he retired his contract was up.  He could have probably played another year if he wanted too but I think he wanted to stay in Indy and looked at the Colts past history of letting guys walk at the end of their careers and decided to probably just hang it up.  

 

Litterally, the million dollar question with Adam is is he still a top teir kicker?  I honestly don’t know.  I think unlike years past he’s shown enough cracks in the armor it’s a legit question.  It’s not one you or me or anyone here can answer.  We don’t know how much those cracks were caused by age or by injury or if they are even enough cracks to worry Ballard.  If Ballard decides he’s not and those cracks were caused by age and they are only going to get worse the Colts will go in a different direction.  If he feels it was due to injury and Adam is still one of the best in the game I am sure they will pay him to stick around.

 

sometimes when you have to move on from a guy there isn’t always an Andrew Luck waiting in the wings.  Take Jeff Saturday for example.  When it was time to move on from him there was no center of the future.  It wasn’t until Ryan Kelly was drafted several years later that the Colts found his replacement.  It was still time to move on from Jeff though.  That’s my point the Colts aren’t going to keep Adam just because they don’t have the answer right now.  If they think it’s time to move on they will have to go find the kicker of the future.  Those kinds of decesions are why NFL GMs get paid a lot of money if they make good ones because they are hard and not everyone can do it.

[ukcolt12]

He is done and should be moved on. No room for sentimentality in this league. 

And reality is he has missed a fair few now in the postseason and really cost us last night. 

As bad a we played had he stuck away his chances the game is close.

I like the guy, he is accountable and has been an awesome player but time to move on 

[SLILLINGTON10]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Marvin was still under contract.  He’s the one that got released.  Yes it saved them money but the reason he was cut was because he was done.  That’s why no one else picked him up after.  Marvin wasn’t let go because he wanted a big contract he already had that.  He was cut because he wasn’t the same guy he used to be.  

 

Wayne and Freeney weren’t looking for big deals either, both made it known they wanted to be here and were willing to take cheaper deals to stay.  Both were surprised that Grigson didn’t even call to talk about their contracts.  That means it’s wasnt the money it was the production.  Again, both guys weren’t what they used to be and in Freeney’s case no longer fit the defense.  

 

Mathis I left off the list on purpose because he’s the one that retired a Colt.  Now when he retired his contract was up.  He could have probably played another year if he wanted too but I think he wanted to stay in Indy and looked at the Colts past history of letting guys walk at the end of their careers and decided to probably just hang it up.  

 

Litterally, the million dollar question with Adam is is he still a top teir kicker?  I honestly don’t know.  I think unlike years past he’s shown enough cracks in the armor it’s a legit question.  It’s not one you or me or anyone here can answer.  We don’t know how much those cracks were caused by age or by injury or if they are even enough cracks to worry Ballard.  If Ballard decides he’s not and those cracks were caused by age and they are only going to get worse the Colts will go in a different direction.  If he feels it was due to injury and Adam is still one of the best in the game I am sure they will pay him to stick around.

 

sometimes when you have to move on from a guy there isn’t always an Andrew Luck waiting in the wings.  Take Jeff Saturday for example.  When it was time to move on from him there was no center of the future.  It wasn’t until Ryan Kelly was drafted several years later that the Colts found his replacement.  It was still time to move on from Jeff though.  That’s my point the Colts aren’t going to keep Adam just because they don’t have the answer right now.  If they think it’s time to move on they will have to go find the kicker of the future.  Those kinds of decesions are why NFL GMs get paid a lot of money if they make good ones because they are hard and not everyone can do it.

AV stat line from the 2018 season is :

FGM      FGA    %      EPM     EPA       %

23            27     85.2      44          47      93.6

 

Long was 54yds

 

was 0-0 from 1-19 yds, 8-8 from 20-29 yds, 6-7 from 30-39 yds, 5-6 from 40-49 yds, and 4-6 50+yds.

 very respectable numbers for any kicker especially one his age imo.

(Stats are from ESPN.com)

 

 

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

2 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

How does everyone feel about luring Pat McAfee back to us, only this time as a kicker? He clearly loves the Colts, and talked about playing the position in the past. We have a ton of cap space, and the locker room leadership he could bring would be huge. We could also have him do onside kicks for us as needed.

 

A lot of us here love the Colts, doesn't mean any of us should be the next kicker.

If we replace Vinny, lets do it with a kicker, Not a clown. 

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, SLILLINGTON10 said:

AV stat line from the 2018 season is :

FGM      FGA    %      EPM     EPA       %

23            27     85.2      44          47      93.6

 

Long was 54yds

 

was 0-0 from 1-19 yds, 8-8 from 20-29 yds, 6-7 from 30-39 yds, 5-6 from 40-49 yds, and 4-6 50+yds.

 very respectable numbers for any kicker especially one his age imo.

(Stats are from ESPN.com)

 

 

 

Yes but he also had a couple of close doinks and some of his misses, like the Miami one, were bad.  I don’t think he’s a bum.  I just think there are more cracks in the armor than there have been in the past.  Is it enough for the Colts to feel like they have to move on from him?  I don’t know.  I could see it going either way.  

 

There is also the chance that Adam could make the decision for them and retire too.  He’s always talked about coming back and talked about wanting to comeback earlier this season.  The fact he now wants to think about it tells me he’s seriously thinking about walking away and something has happened to make him at least consider it.

[pacolts56]

3 hours ago, SLILLINGTON10 said:

AV stat line from the 2018 season is :

FGM      FGA    %      EPM     EPA       %

23            27     85.2      44          47      93.6

 

Long was 54yds

 

was 0-0 from 1-19 yds, 8-8 from 20-29 yds, 6-7 from 30-39 yds, 5-6 from 40-49 yds, and 4-6 50+yds.

 very respectable numbers for any kicker especially one his age imo.

(Stats are from ESPN.com)

 

 

 

Agreed .... this earns him one more season. 

[luv_pony_express]

40 minutes ago, pacolts56 said:

Agreed .... this earns him one more season. 

 

Part of the problem is that his age increases the chances of an injury, as well as the recovery time.  You can’t only look in the rear view mirror.

 

Look at what happened to Seattle and Janikowski.  He gets hurt during a playoff game,..leaving them PK-less.  Can you imagine if the game would’ve come down to Seattle having to kick a 48-yarder to win?

 

We need a reliable kicker.  Vinny didn’t singlehandedly lose us that game yesterday.  But he sure contributed in a significant way.

 

[stitches]

I'm of the mind - you keep him until he decides to retire. You don't push him out the door. He's still pretty good and one weird game should not make us get rid off a legend. His season still was very good and chances are higher that you will enter into kicker purgatory than you get better kicker than that if you sign a FA or draft a kicker. Too bad we missed on Badgley. He seems like a legit kicker. 

[luv_pony_express]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

I'm of the mind - you keep him until he decides to retire. You don't push him out the door. He's still pretty good and one weird game should not make us get rid off a legend. His season still was very good and chances are higher that you will enter into kicker purgatory than you get better kicker than that if you sign a FA or draft a kicker. Too bad we missed on Badgley. He seems like a legit kicker. 

 

We didn’t “miss” on Badgley.  We chose Vinny over him.  And, all sentimentality aside, it wasn’t a wise choice.

 

And I’m not just saying that because Vinny blew a PAT and a chip shot FG in a playoff game.  We had a chance to nab an obviously good young kicker fresh out of the gate and we decided to give him up to hang on to the aging icon for 1 or 2 more years of his decline.

 

It may hurt our hearts to admit it was a bad choice.  But it should be obvious that it was.

[csmopar]

7 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

False. He bobbled it but was able to get it down just fine. Don't deflect the blame.

Go back and watch, I did. The ball on both misses was still moving when Vinnie kicked it, both times

[aaron11]

i would at least consider moving on.  i would want to see where he is at injury wise and talk to him directly about how much he thinks he has left