Colts1324

Where will our cap space go this offseason?!

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If players such as:

 

Landon Collins

Dee Ford

D. Lawrence

Frank Clark

J. Clowney

Grady Jarrett 

Trey Flowers

 

all get franchises tagged, where is all our cap space going to go?? 

 

The other top free agents available are all at the free safety position or are players that are not the greatest scheme fits. 

 

We aren’t going to spend much on offense other than resigning Mark G., and signing a WR in FA.  $60-$80 million just towards our defense?? 

 

Anybody know how much cap space we need to spend by the end of the offseason? 

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I doubt he spends much more than the last two off seasons. Very low possibility he goes after the guys you listed. He’s gonna go after inexpensive depth signings is my guess. But maybe if we go deep in the playoffs some players will take pay cuts to play for us.

 

He needs to spend 89% of the cap by the 2020 offseason I believe. 

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I would think with the optimism going into next season, that its going to entice Ballard to look at FA hard and possibly make a splash.

 

I don't think anyone, including Ballard, expected the Colts success this quickly.

 

With that being said, the pass rush is still a problem. Hopefully, Ballard looks to sign a pass rusher during FA, which will be difficult with most being tagged by there respective teams.

 

It's definitely going to be an interesting off-season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Would love to see Landon Collins and Trey Flowers in Indianapolis.

 

Collins would be a clear upgrade, and Flowers would be an awesome part of the defensive line rotation.

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I know it was discussed on another thread the number of free agents we'll have at the end of this season, what about any free agents at the end of 2019 season that the team may want to start locking up now with extensions? From Sportrac, here is a screenshot of our players who's contract expire in 2020. It's not listed, but the colums are Player Name, Position, Age, Experience, Contract Terms, Average Salary, Guarantees, and Expiration:

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.23d6bd59e62f6d1b0949be363f1d5d65.png

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Dee Ford to me is a bit undersized to play DE in this defense. But I wouldn't mind Clark or Flowers as long as they don't break the bank. 

 

Lawrence probably won't be available. 

 

Collins would look nice next to Malik Hooker also, unless Geathers can prove to stay healthy and play well. 

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7 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Dee Ford to me is a bit undersized to play DE in this defense. But I wouldn't mind Clark or Flowers as long as they don't break the bank. 

 

Lawrence probably won't be available. 

 

Collins would look nice next to Malik Hooker also, unless Geathers can prove to stay healthy and play well. 

Flowers and Clark are both going to make $14+ million per year. 

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Unless we move on from Geathers, I can't see us pursuing Collins or Thomas. I wouldn't mind Frank Clark though. 

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32 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Unless we move on from Geathers, I can't see us pursuing Collins or Thomas. I wouldn't mind Frank Clark though. 

 

F. Clark would be a perfect match for the Colts defense, but I think he gets tagged with Lawrence.

 

Definitely two players, I'd be in favor of paying a huge contract to sign.

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7 hours ago, MPStack said:

 

With that being said, the pass rush is still a problem. Hopefully, Ballard looks to sign a pass rusher during FA, which will be difficult with most being tagged by there respective teams.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

100% correct.......

 

I think we HAVE to get at least one additional DE and possibly an additional UT that can pressure the QB.

 

This is why we had difficulty with Eli Manning, a few weeks ago. Someone that is accurate, and doesnt make mistakes can clobber this defense

 

This is our teams biggest hole IMHO

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Agreed. We need to target a UT or DE in the draft IMO because there isn’t any studs available in FA other than the top 10 defensive players that will all be tagged or likely way overpaid. 

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4 hours ago, Colts1324 said:

Flowers and Clark are both going to make $14+ million per year. 

 

Agreed for sure.

 

Clark is almost certain to get tagged as others have said.

 

I would argue he is even more likely to be tagged than Lawrence and rightfully so.

 

The guy has amassed 32 sacks over the last 3 seasons and is in his prime at only 25 years old.

 

He is the very definition of a guy you don't let go lol.

 

He would be worth the $15M-$17M a year it would take to sign him.

 

With pass rushers like Oliver Vernon and Justin Houston making $17M a year (yes I know they are OLBs but they are pass rushers nonetheless), I would expect the best pass rushers thiss off-season to command $18M+ a year in deals as they fall under the Mack/Donald level but hover near the Franchise tag/Von Miller level which should but them between $17.5 and $19M

 

I could see a scenario where Flowers hits the market. But I am not sure he is so dynamic that he deserves that $15M+ the way Clark would.

 

In the end, despite all our cap room, I think it is unlikely we break the bank for a pass rusher since we won't overpay for middle of the pack guys and since this draft class is deep.

 

Much more likely we get more home grown talent and that we sign some gems like Autry.

 

Some guys I could see netting nice deals but not breaking the bank include:

 

Romeo Okwara

Dante Fowler

Aaron Lynch

Za'Darius Smith

Preston Smith

 

 

Some of these guys are 3-4 OLBs that have the size to play 4-3 end and could contribute on the line.

 

There are guys like the before mentioned Trey Flowers and even Brandon Graham who would fit nicely too, but I am not sure they will be worth the contracts they fetch.

 

Dee Ford also picked a great year to have a  contract year too.

 

In the end I see it more likely that we try to unearth middle tier guys than us going for any big fish. That is even more likely since i doubt any of the big fish pass rushers hit the open market. If they do, there will be many teams with money looking to overpay them. And while we have some of the most money, we are also one of the teams least likely to go out and overpay a guy.

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2 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

 

Agreed for sure.

 

Clark is almost certain to get tagged as others have said.

 

I would argue he is even more likely to be tagged than Lawrence and rightfully so.

 

The guy has amassed 32 sacks over the last 3 seasons and is in his prime at only 25 years old.

 

He is the very definition of a guy you don't let go lol.

 

He would be worth the $15M-$17M a year it would take to sign him.

 

With pass rushers like Oliver Vernon and Justin Houston making $17M a year (yes I know they are OLBs but they are pass rushers nonetheless), I would expect the best pass rushers thiss off-season to command $18M+ a year in deals as they fall under the Mack/Donald level but hover near the Franchise tag/Von Miller level which should but them between $17.5 and $19M

 

I could see a scenario where Flowers hits the market. But I am not sure he is so dynamic that he deserves that $15M+ the way Clark would.

 

In the end, despite all our cap room, I think it is unlikely we break the bank for a pass rusher since we won't overpay for middle of the pack guys and since this draft class is deep.

 

Much more likely we get more home grown talent and that we sign some gems like Autry.

 

Some guys I could see netting nice deals but not breaking the bank include:

 

Romeo Okwara

Dante Fowler

Aaron Lynch

Za'Darius Smith

Preston Smith

 

 

Some of these guys are 3-4 OLBs that have the size to play 4-3 end and could contribute on the line.

 

There are guys like the before mentioned Trey Flowers and even Brandon Graham who would fit nicely too, but I am not sure they will be worth the contracts they fetch.

 

Dee Ford also picked a great year to have a  contract year too.

 

In the end I see it more likely that we try to unearth middle tier guys than us going for any big fish. That is even more likely since i doubt any of the big fish pass rushers hit the open market. If they do, there will be many teams with money looking to overpay them. And while we have some of the most money, we are also one of the teams least likely to go out and overpay a guy.

100% agree with all that you said. However, say we sign 4 middle of the pack free agents(all average $8 million per year), we still will have about $60-$65 million in cap space after the draft and resigning our own guys. 

 

What do we do with the rest of the money?? 

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4 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

100% agree with all that you said. However, say we sign 4 middle of the pack free agents(all average $8 million per year), we still will have about $60-$65 million in cap space after the draft and resigning our own guys. 

 

What do we do with the rest of the money?? 

The team can write bonus checks to the current players to meet the salary cap floor. At least that's what I thought I heard on "the ringer" podcast.

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I'd love Frank Clark but he wont be leaving and I'd love Collins but he also isn't leaving. Sigh I really hate the franchise tag. Maybe look at Jason Verrett or Ronald Darby I know both had season ending injuries but that's why I'd see what they ask for if too much no but if they dont break the bank I'd take one. They both were awesome when healthy.

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4 hours ago, BOTT said:

The team can write bonus checks to the current players to meet the salary cap floor. At least that's what I thought I heard on "the ringer" podcast.

 

I mean, if they just need to write some checks, I'll take one.  For the team.

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Need to resign Glowinski , Desir and maybe Hunt . Would also be not a bad idea to extend Kelly and Moore. That will costs a few bucks and very well could be better value than probably having to vastly overpay for the top FA's of this year.

 

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Cap Space for the teams: according to spotrac

Atlanta 20.4M 

Seattle 60.3M

New York Giants 27.2M

Dallas 50.9M

New England 25.4M

Houston 67M

Kansas City 40M

 

Grady Jarrett, Trey Flowers, and Landon Collins could all sneak through to FA. Lawrence has a chance (not a great chance but a chance) to make it as well.  The tag for him would be about 20.5M.  

 

Some other money going to sign our own guys and some to the draft picks. 

 

Maybe some money on the D-line. Maybe another O-lineman. He said we want 8 starters on D-line and 10 on the o-lines. If none of them hit the market probably just competition guys. 

 

I really hope he makes a splash or two if some of "big names" hit the market. 

 

 

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On 1/7/2019 at 12:46 AM, Luck 4 president said:

I doubt he spends much more than the last two off seasons. Very low possibility he goes after the guys you listed. He’s gonna go after inexpensive depth signings is my guess. But maybe if we go deep in the playoffs some players will take pay cuts to play for us.

 

He needs to spend 89% of the cap by the 2020 offseason I believe. 

What % are we at now? 

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Anthony Barr LB

Shane Ray DE 

David Irving DT 

 

Two out of the three won't break the bank Barr will be the most expensive. And if the safety market is low we could grab HaHa on a 1 or 2 year deal. These 4 guys would make a hell of a impact

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I am keeping my fingers crossed for Collins and Clark to make it to FA.   A more likely scenario is David Irving and Kevin White coming on board. 

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On 1/7/2019 at 10:05 AM, ColtV said:

I know it was discussed on another thread the number of free agents we'll have at the end of this season, what about any free agents at the end of 2019 season that the team may want to start locking up now with extensions? From Sportrac, here is a screenshot of our players who's contract expire in 2020. It's not listed, but the colums are Player Name, Position, Age, Experience, Contract Terms, Average Salary, Guarantees, and Expiration:

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.23d6bd59e62f6d1b0949be363f1d5d65.png

 

This was talked about in another thread but essentially while we have some money we can spend this offseason, we can't go hog wild because there are a lot of guys we need to extend before the next offseason that are going to require some money sent their way.  

 

 

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On 1/8/2019 at 11:22 AM, richard pallo said:

I am keeping my fingers crossed for Collins and Clark to make it to FA.   A more likely scenario is David Irving and Kevin White coming on board. 

One guy has been suspended twice for PEDS and the other has been injured most of his career. No thanks

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I believe that we will all be a bit disappointed with FAs brought in and signed.

 

I can see an additional safety, a big body RB, possibly an mid tier CB that can play this defense.

 

The top difference maker  FA DEs/DTs that would immediately help the Colts get some pass rush will certainly be tagged or signed. 

 

There may be a 2nd tier DE/DT that could be available. But they will bolster a DL rotation, not become an instant star.  We already have the players for rotation that are decent, or 2nd tier "level"

 

Ezekial Ansah will probably be one of these teir 1 teir 2 "tweeners" that will probably be available in FA. You cant call him a tier 1, because of constant injuries.  But..... he can rush the passer. On a weak Detroit team,  where they rarely had a lead, he managed 14.5 sacks in 2015  and 12 sacks in 2017.

 

Thats better than what we have today

 

For those that are cost conscious (In my book the dollars are like monopoly money  (For you YOUNG Colts fans, that a tedious board game..... that goes on for HOURS)........ I dont lose sleep when our owners spend) , he will not cost as much as the Tier 1 DEs to sign. 

 

I hope that we make a play for him

 

I fully expect the Colts use early picks on these spots to try to get someone to develop.

 

Its not like we are bad on the DL, we just arent getting a consistent pass rush

 

Turay and Tyquan Lewis, should get better

 

I was also very high on Jhad Ward 6'5" 290 lbs, before he was injured. The guy gets after the QB from the DT spot (3 sacks in 5 1/2 games, in a rotation) I can never seem to find QB pressures as a stat, but he seemed to be close to the QB on many plays for the short time he played.

 

Somehow, someway, we need to come out of this draft with a DE that can rush the passer. That alone, would make a good defense... better

 

Our CBs and safeties will suddenly get more picks.

 

I know its BPA, but looking at this team......in a draft stuffed with DL talent........ it will LIKELY be a choice of BPA at

DE, DT, or even LB

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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JMV has been saying on his show for a week or so that he's been told that the Colts will look to upgrade WR in a "Big Way". He's usually pretty spot on with what goes on over there.

 

That being said I don't see many FA WR's to get excited about this year.

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1 hour ago, Boiler_Colt said:

JMV has been saying on his show for a week or so that he's been told that the Colts will look to upgrade WR in a "Big Way". He's usually pretty spot on with what goes on over there.

 

That being said I don't see many FA WR's to get excited about this year.

I wouldn't expect the upgrade to come from FA necessarily.   Probably more likely a trade will happen.  

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On 1/7/2019 at 11:20 PM, dw49 said:

Need to resign Glowinski , Desir and maybe Hunt . Would also be not a bad idea to extend Kelly and Moore. That will costs a few bucks and very well could be better value than probably having to vastly overpay for the top FA's of this year.

 

We won’t extend Kelly until next offseason as he has a 5th year option. I definitely agree on extending Kenny Moore. He would probably be in the 5-6 million dollar range too, which could in turn be a big steal down the road. 

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8 hours ago, Boiler_Colt said:

JMV has been saying on his show for a week or so that he's been told that the Colts will look to upgrade WR in a "Big Way". He's usually pretty spot on with what goes on over there.

 

That being said I don't see many FA WR's to get excited about this year.

Adam Humphries, Golden Tate, or a trade for Tyler Boyd is what I could see happening. I don’t see the Bengals being able to keep both AJ Green and Tyler Boyd next offseason. 

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13 hours ago, Boiler_Colt said:

JMV has been saying on his show for a week or so that he's been told that the Colts will look to upgrade WR in a "Big Way". He's usually pretty spot on with what goes on over there.

 

The "Big" Way

 

6'6" Hakeem Butler

or 

6' 4" Lil Jorden Humphries

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23 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Ezekial Ansah will probably be one of these teir 1 teir 2 "tweeners" that will probably be available in FA. You cant call him a tier 1, because of constant injuries.  But..... he can rush the passer. On a weak Detroit team,  where they rarely had a lead, he managed 14.5 sacks in 2015  and 12 sacks in 2017.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He's 30 now and injury prone, but might be the most realistic option in FA, because the top pass rushers (Lawrence, Clark) will most likely be Tagged.

 

I wouldn't mind signing Ansah, because I don't think the draft class is particularly strong with pass rushers.

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On 1/7/2019 at 1:46 AM, Luck 4 president said:

He needs to spend 89% of the cap by the 2020 offseason I believe. 

it doesnt make sense to go into 2020 while having to spend that much money in one off season.  what if its not a very good class of free agents?  

 

we might as well get started now, and even look at a big signing or two.  they have the money to go after anyone they want 

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1 hour ago, MPStack said:

 

He's 30 now and injury prone, but might be the most realistic option in FA, because the top pass rushers (Lawrence, Clark) will most likely be Tagged.

 

I wouldn't mind signing Ansah, because I don't think the draft class is particularly strong with pass rushers.

I think there are only 2-3 that would make a difference (In our range .... 32nd :)  )

 

Burns, Z Taylor

and

2 Small school guys should be there

Jaylon Ferguson 26 TFL - 17.5 Sacks (2018)

O. Xmines - 18 TFL - 11 sacks

 

I would take Ansah AND one of these two small school guys

 

Pass rush is our big hole on defense

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ansah would be a very nice addition considering what other realistic options would be out there.   Ebron could help with that signing. 

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1. First things first, we gotta re-sign our own. Glowinski, Inman, Hunt, and Desir are our most valuable free agents, and none of them will break the bank. Glowinski fills out our line, Inman is a real viable #2 WR that Luck likes, Hunt has balled out at times and tired out at others from a pretty high snap count, and Desir has quietly been our best corner. I would also try to keep either Mike Mitchell, Clayton Geathers, or both. Geathers has always been solid if not great when he can stay healthy and I don’t think Mitchell’s veteran presence can be understated. Also offer RFA tenders to the decent young guys; Rogers, Farley, Boehm, etc. 

 

2. Next we gotta get more bodies on the dline. I love the way Eberflus has schemed the front seven of the defense, and the role players they’ve brought in have exceeded my expectations. Autry and Hunt have been great at times. I do believe in a deep rotation though, and that we are not. One thing I find interesting is how effectively our somewhat tweener of a line has stopped the run. Woods really did not play that much and we’ve seen a lot of Hunt/Autry at the one technique so we really don’t need any big fatties up front. Not that Grover Stewart is particularly effective but I’m content with him being the only conventional NT going into next year.

 

I want to be ten deep going into next year. Figuring Sheard, Lewis, Turay, Muhammad, Autry, Hunt, and Stewart (not a lock) as putting us at 7/10, that leaves a little work. I want to see two linemen signed this offseason and no expense spared. Grady Jarrett and Demarcus Lawrence are the signing of my dreams but that’s never gonna happen. Jarrett will be tagged if they can’t come to an agreement. The only reason Lawrence would be available is because he was tagged last year and it’d be more expensive. Anyway after them there is a list of, in my opinion, really solid linemen. My order of preference for DE would be; Clowney, Trey Flowers, Frank Clark, Brandon Graham, Preston Smith, Dee Ford, Za’Darius Smith, Shaq Barrett, and Ziggy Ansah.

 

On the inside there’s less quantity but someone will be available. I’m all for going in on Suh this offseason. He’s had a down year by his standards and he’s getting on in age so we wouldn’t have to go crazy the way Miami did to pay him a few years ago. He got 14 million this year for the Rams and I’m guessing he’ll be around 12 million to land him for next year. I don’t think his fall has been as pronounced as it’s made out to be either. Playing next to Donald, Suh was pidgeonholed into the one technique a lot so he could be doubled by the center/guard and give Donald more one on ones. Put Suh back to playing three technique, and I think we get the same player he was two years ago. A scheme change could be just what he needs, as well as a culture change. Come back to the humble Midwest but don’t bring all the unnecessary roughness penalties with you. 

 

If Suh doesn’t pan out I’d settle for any of the following; Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Mario Edwards, Rodney Gunter, or Brent Urban. 

 

3. Bring in a corner. Number one on my list is Bryce Callahan out of Chicago. He’s pretty much a prototype for the kind of corner Ballard and Eberflus want. He’s had a great season with the Bears. I do have two reservations about him though. Is he a one hit wonder? Was he made to look better than he is by all the talent around him? If he’s going into the offseason asking for crazy money I’m passing. I’d offer him what Bouye got, 13 million a year. If we can’t get him we’ll have to bring in a couple low risk prospects like Neiko Thorpe and Kayvon Webster. 

 

4. LB depth. Jordan Hicks is very underrated for his coverage. He’s one of the best in the league at it from a linebacker perspective. I know a lot of people really like Anthony Walker, but he’s really just a guy and he’s no cover LB. we need to stop letting offenses move the ball so easily with little dump off passes to the back. 

 

5. WR. I’d like to see them bring in Adam Humphries from the Bucs. He quietly had a good season on a bad team with a revolving door at QB. I’d like to see a battle between him, Pascal, Cain, and Fountain for the WR3 spot in camp. 

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31 minutes ago, The Peytonator said:

1. First things first, we gotta re-sign our own. Glowinski, Inman, Hunt, and Desir are our most valuable free agents, and none of them will break the bank. Glowinski fills out our line, Inman is a real viable #2 WR that Luck likes, Hunt has balled out at times and tired out at others from a pretty high snap count, and Desir has quietly been our best corner. I would also try to keep either Mike Mitchell, Clayton Geathers, or both. Geathers has always been solid if not great when he can stay healthy and I don’t think Mitchell’s veteran presence can be understated. Also offer RFA tenders to the decent young guys; Rogers, Farley, Boehm, etc. 

 

2. Next we gotta get more bodies on the dline. I love the way Eberflus has schemed the front seven of the defense, and the role players they’ve brought in have exceeded my expectations. Autry and Hunt have been great at times. I do believe in a deep rotation though, and that we are not. One thing I find interesting is how effectively our somewhat tweener of a line has stopped the run. Woods really did not play that much and we’ve seen a lot of Hunt/Autry at the one technique so we really don’t need any big fatties up front. Not that Grover Stewart is particularly effective but I’m content with him being the only conventional NT going into next year.

 

I want to be ten deep going into next year. Figuring Sheard, Lewis, Turay, Muhammad, Autry, Hunt, and Stewart (not a lock) as putting us at 7/10, that leaves a little work. I want to see two linemen signed this offseason and no expense spared. Grady Jarrett and Demarcus Lawrence are the signing of my dreams but that’s never gonna happen. Jarrett will be tagged if they can’t come to an agreement. The only reason Lawrence would be available is because he was tagged last year and it’d be more expensive. Anyway after them there is a list of, in my opinion, really solid linemen. My order of preference for DE would be; Clowney, Trey Flowers, Frank Clark, Brandon Graham, Preston Smith, Dee Ford, Za’Darius Smith, Shaq Barrett, and Ziggy Ansah.

 

On the inside there’s less quantity but someone will be available. I’m all for going in on Suh this offseason. He’s had a down year by his standards and he’s getting on in age so we wouldn’t have to go crazy the way Miami did to pay him a few years ago. He got 14 million this year for the Rams and I’m guessing he’ll be around 12 million to land him for next year. I don’t think his fall has been as pronounced as it’s made out to be either. Playing next to Donald, Suh was pidgeonholed into the one technique a lot so he could be doubled by the center/guard and give Donald more one on ones. Put Suh back to playing three technique, and I think we get the same player he was two years ago. A scheme change could be just what he needs, as well as a culture change. Come back to the humble Midwest but don’t bring all the unnecessary roughness penalties with you. 

 

If Suh doesn’t pan out I’d settle for any of the following; Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Mario Edwards, Rodney Gunter, or Brent Urban. 

 

3. Bring in a corner. Number one on my list is Bryce Callahan out of Chicago. He’s pretty much a prototype for the kind of corner Ballard and Eberflus want. He’s had a great season with the Bears. I do have two reservations about him though. Is he a one hit wonder? Was he made to look better than he is by all the talent around him? If he’s going into the offseason asking for crazy money I’m passing. I’d offer him what Bouye got, 13 million a year. If we can’t get him we’ll have to bring in a couple low risk prospects like Neiko Thorpe and Kayvon Webster. 

 

4. LB depth. Jordan Hicks is very underrated for his coverage. He’s one of the best in the league at it from a linebacker perspective. I know a lot of people really like Anthony Walker, but he’s really just a guy and he’s no cover LB. we need to stop letting offenses move the ball so easily with little dump off passes to the back. 

 

5. WR. I’d like to see them bring in Adam Humphries from the Bucs. He quietly had a good season on a bad team with a revolving door at QB. I’d like to see a battle between him, Pascal, Cain, and Fountain for the WR3 spot in camp. 

Inman was signed off the street.  He has played well, no doubt, but if he was a no. 2 receiver he wouldn't have been on the street.  Maybe he's a 3 I don't know.  But we need a playmaker at no. 2.  He's not on the team right now.   I don't see one in FA either.  I'm expecting a trade here.  Irsay pretty much hinted at one with a reporter.  I think we are going to make a splash in the off season and get a legitimate WR threat.

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    • You see how that's a conflation of two separate issues? (With a sprinkling of a third issue, tbh.)   1) Team A picking at #15 might have a problem with Hockenson, maybe their evaluation of his talent or character or whatever. Maybe they have a second round grade on him. Team B picking at #26 might have Hockenson as a top ten player on their board. And maybe a handful of other teams between those two have higher grades on different players that align with their needs, or maybe they aren't disciplined in their approach or have different draft philosophies. Maybe some of those teams don't see positional value in TEs, so they pass on Hockenson, leaving him available at #26. Again, the point is that not every team has the same board, and there are many reasons why that might be the case.   2) You're adding in the quality of the evaluation. Team B might think more highly of the player than anyone else, and maybe they're right and he turns out to be a stud. Maybe they're wrong, and he's a dud. But that's a question of player evaluation, not draft strategy.   3) Gronk was a second rounder himself. And he's turning out to be one of the best TEs in NFL history. Anyone saying 'Hockenson is the next Gronk' isn't being an honest evaluator, and I don't want my GM drafting players because he's convinced they'll be the next HOF player at any position. The odds stacked heavily against that. (I said the same last year to everyone claiming Barkley was a guaranteed HOFer who would singlehandedly elevate any offense to the top of the league.) That's a way to rationalize drafting a player you're in love with. It's not a disciplined draft strategy.
    • Agreed. My over arching point to BPA vs needs discussion is that the terms themselves can have different meanings, so the various good points made can get lost in the wash.   But I do think the preponderance of thinking lists BPA agnostic of attributes for a given scheme, which is how the national websites tend to do it.  So when GMs pick the 45th ranked player with pick 33, many criticize the pick as "reaching" for a need because they they don't stop to think that 5 or 6 players ranked in between weren't even considered a good fit for the team to begin with.   
    • Him and Lewis will elevate that draft class even higher. 
    • You're putting your own "spin" on this.  It has everything to do with what Ballard chose to do.   Ballard could have prevented his players from hitting free agency at all by overpaying them in the first place.   He doesn't want to overpay, so he "allows" them to hit free agency, find out that no team will overpay, then "brings" them back at their true value.
    • Yes I know, I wasn't going to list all possibilities.  I just listed one possibility to illustrate there is more to it than one person "letting" him test the market then "bringing" him back.     My point was about the tone of the comment coupled with the lack of substance supporting the tone of the comment.   But I see throughout the thread that typical sensitivities about broader things have surfaced so y'all carry on.
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