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CR91

Nelson vs Leonard

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There’s no wrong answer to this and I’m enjoying the replies. 

 

Leonard is a tackling machine, a game changer and clearly our emerging leader on defense... and  BigQ physically and psychologically destroys people and has pretty much single handedly erased the word “soft” from any rational association with the Indianapolis Colts.

 

Enjoy the ride!! :coltslogo:

 

 

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7 hours ago, BOTT said:

Odd and pointless question.

 

but to say Leonard single handily made the colts a top 10 defense is absurd.

 

are you saying we'd be a top 10 defense without Leonard?

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18 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

are you saying we'd be a top 10 defense without Leonard?

That's obviously not what I said

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8 hours ago, HarryTheCat said:

Yup. The Nelson Nasty is a highly contagious virus, and it seems to have spread all along the line. There are now lots of apocryphal stories floating around about the Colts O-linemen comparing each other's pancakes and de-cleaters, where last year they were just doing all they could to stay alive out there. The funny thing is that Nelson seems like that nice kid next door (well, maybe a bit bigger) when he's off the field, but I'd hate to see that Number 56 Express coming at me through my facemask. 

That, caused me to actually...

Laugh Out Loud!

 

good post

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3 minutes ago, BOTT said:

That's obviously not what I said

Don't you love it when someone puts words in your mouth?

Priceless.

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Leonard he's been arguably the DPOY as a rookie. Nelson has been very good but Smith has been arguably as valuable/good as Nelson this season. For as much as Nelson gets credit for changing the OL Smith and Glowinski each have made a huge difference for the OL.

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I would say it's tough to say.  They both have helped transform their respective units.  But I would say the better pick was Leonard simply because of where he was drafted and the fact that he wasn't as highly touted.  People knew Nelson would be a stud.  But Leonard is the type of pick that gets you the GM of the Year award.

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This is almost impossible to answer. It's pretty even but if I did have to choose one, I would choose Nelson. Just watching Luck get mauled year after year and having no running game was awful. Nelson is a huge reason why that has changed. Our O.Line went from soft to physical once Nelson joined the team. Leonard is Great though and is a monster on Defense, heart and soul of the D. I love both of them! 

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This is almost impossible to answer. It's pretty even but if I did have to choose one, I would choose Nelson. Just watching Luck get mauled year after year and having no running game was awful. Nelson is a huge reason why that has changed. Our O.Line went from soft to physical once Nelson joined the team. Leonard is Great though and is a monster on Defense, heart and soul of the D. I love both of them! 

Their impacts are both huge, and this was a dream draft for the Colts. The only reason I have Leonard higher is because Ballard seems to be able to find great Guards easily. He did get Walker last year before Leonard though, so maybe he's just good at everything! :) 

 

Nelson changed the O-Line and the attitude of this team, while Leonard gave us an identity on defense. All I'll say is, this draft (and maybe even just Nelson and Leonard) was better than all of Grigsons put together. Both elite players at their positions that change the game for us.

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7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Their impacts are both huge, and this was a dream draft for the Colts. The only reason I have Leonard higher is because Ballard seems to be able to find great Guards easily. He did get Walker last year before Leonard though, so maybe he's just good at everything! :) 

 

Nelson changed the O-Line and the attitude of this team, while Leonard gave us an identity on defense. All I'll say is, this draft (and maybe even just Nelson and Leonard) was better than all of Grigsons put together. Both elite players at their positions that change the game for us.

Yeah that is why this topic is almost impossible to answer. Both are great and have an argument to being better.

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah that is why this topic is almost impossible to answer. Both are great and have an argument to being better.

Have you looked at the draft class next year at all?

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3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Have you looked at the draft class next year at all?

I really haven't. I haven't because I have been so focused on this season and the team making the Playoffs. Is it any good?

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8 hours ago, HarryTheCat said:

Agreed! Both of them have changed the equation on their respective sides of the ball, and both deserve ROY awards (along with Pro Bowl and All-Pro honors).  With Smith, Turay, Lewis, and Hines, this might just be the best draft in Colts' history. 

Don’t forget Wilkins, who I think will play a big role for us in the playoffs when we need to put teams away with the running game.  And don’t sleep on Cain becoming our “Inman” next season.  Definitely has potential to be our best draft class ever.  Like when Jimmy Johnson fleeced the Vikings in the Herschel Walker trade and built the Cowboys of the 90’s dynasty. 

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I really haven't. I haven't because I have been so focused on this season and the team making the Playoffs. Is it any good?

The D-Line talent is amazing. Ballard will have a field day with it. There are 5 very solid CBs I like, and a good group of WR's that like good as well. Basically our weaknesses are some of the drafts strengths. Ballard might have a repeat of this year's draft. We also have the Jets pick (2nd pick in the 2nd round). So it'll be fun even after the season is over to talk about it.

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1 minute ago, Smoke317 said:

Don’t forget Wilkins, who I think will play a big role for us in the playoffs when we need to put teams away with the running game.  And don’t sleep on Cain becoming our “Inman” next season.  Definitely has potential to be our best draft class ever.  Like when Jimmy Johnson fleeced the Vikings in the Herschel Walker trade and built the Cowboys of the 90’s dynasty. 

Great trade by Ballard. Nelson, Braden Smith, Turay, and a 2nd round pick next year (2nd pick overall in the 2nd), to move back 3 spots and get who we wanted anyway. That's why Ballard is a boss!

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Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

The D-Line talent is amazing. Ballard will have a field day with it. There are 5 very solid CBs I like, and a good group of WR's that like good as well. Basically our weaknesses are some of the drafts strengths. Ballard might have a repeat of this year's draft. We also have the Jets pick (2nd pick in the 2nd round). So it'll be fun even after the season is over to talk about it.

Not only has this season been fun and good, it sounds like the 2019 Draft will be as well. After the 2017 Season and Luck's status going into 2018, we could not of asked for a better year Draft in 2018 and team success. Ballard may pick this Draft apart it sounds like. We are going to be 1 scary team come next season. We are good now.

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8 hours ago, Luck 4 president said:

Ya Leonard made a bigger impact. He plays in a more game changing position and can do more by himself. It’s not a knock on Nelson, but he’s only 1/5 of the OL and depends on the other 4 guys every play. 18/18 sacks given up this year happened when either Castanzo or Kelly were out. 

 

Not really fair to say Q is 1/5 of the OL and then exclude that Maniac is 1/7 of the front seven.  In a cover 2, it is common for the WLB to lead the team in tackles, based purely on scheme (we've seen this before with guys like Cato June, Mike Peterson, Marcus Washington, Freddy Keiaho/Tyjaun Hagler, Clint Session).  None of those guys were the best defensive player on the team but all lead or were near the top of the team in tackles at some point due to the scheme, which requires the DL and other LBs to hit gaps and eat blockers to free the WLB.

 

I do think Leonard is better than all the aforementioned guys and is making plays besides tackles (forcing fumbles, getting sacks while not primarily being a pass rusher, critical interceptions, etc.).  Leonard also seems to be more of a vocal leader than any of them as well.  The point is, he's not doing it by himself.  Guys like Hunt, Autry, Woods, Walker, Sheard and a lot of our young guys (Turay, Tyquan, Franklin, Adams, etc.) have been playing better front 7 football than we've seen this team play in a long time.  

 

6 hours ago, BOTT said:

Odd and pointless question.

 

but to say Leonard single handily made the colts a top 10 defense is absurd.

 

Correct, we've seen better DB, DL, and LB play on this team than we did throughout the Pagano era, IMO (Vontae had a couple of stud years at CB, and Hooker put up better numbers with Pagano, and Mathis had that one monster year... otherwise, across the board this D is much better than we've seen).  Leonard definitely seems to be a critical leader of this team, but he's not 'singe-handedly' making the D a top 10 D.

 

5 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

Sad y'all leaving Smith out of this too. Dude's been studtastic at RT. His impact there is almost as noticeable (without Pancakes) as Nelson. 

 

Dude was frigging drafted to play guard. He's developed into a consistent RT with tremendous athleticism, and we never hear his name in a game. I can see him being a RT for a while to come

 

Smith has been great.  PFF (for what it's worth) had him rated just below Q for final grade (I think Q was 73.4 to 72.9 or something like that).  I kind of hope Clark makes a big transition in the offseason and can take over at RT, as I still think Smith has the most upside as a G.  Either way, he's been balling out and should get some serious praise.  That said, I don't think he's been as instrumental with setting the tone as Big Q.  Smith's definitely been a valuable asset to this team, but in terms of overall (on and off field, leadership and playing well, etc.), I think Q has been more valuable to this team.

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Both men easily exceeded expectations, especially Leonard.

Leonard, Nelson, are multiple Pro Bowlers. Braden Smith right now is a solid starter with Pro Bowl potential. Ballard is the man!

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