Be Prepared For A Boring Pick In Round 2

[Deano1818]

I personally would love to have an exciting playmaker in round 2.......

BUT.....

What no one wants is another David Carr

(a great prospect, that gets clobbered in thier first year........ It effected his career.)

With our line in shambles, i expect a "safe" pick like the best available guard

A speedy WR would be great..... But keeping a 22 year old kid upright while he adjusts to the game seems like a better choice

[Dan]

I expect to go for established guards (Mathis or Grubbs) in FA and then give Luck weapons in the draft.

[CCH]

I'd rather go for an OG in free agency to make the line better immediately. The 34th pick will probably be a WR unless someone like Fletcher Cox falls. I would be happy with Mohamed Sanu.

[MTC]

I could see us getting a offensive guard in the second (Cordy Glenn, Keleche Osemele, Kevin Zeiter) and still get a good receiver in the third (Tommy Streeter, Joe Adams, AJ Jenkins)

[CR91]

with all the cuts we've made we have alot of cap space so we can get some players in fa. three guys i want are grubbs, landry, and colston. thats three filled holes right there

[Deano1818]

It looks like Grubs turned down some nice coin to return to the Ravens

Some of these FAs are going to look for huge paydays.

We can blow through this extra cap space quickly if we bring in many high priced FAs.

(as fast as my wife can blow through any extra in the checking account )

We have quite a few holes to fill. My bet is we are selective this year on FAs and maybe a little

More aggressive next year.

I think we MOSTLY will build thru the draft

We do need to protect our franchise QB

[coltsblue1844]

you guys realize that most of the money saved vs the salary cap wont show up until next year, right? we have a LOT of dead cap hit money this year...so dont anyone plan a free agency frenzy just yet lol

[Andy]

What's borng? You want the Colts to go after a popular player just because he's popular and has a little bit of talent. That's one of the stupidest things they could do. Pick the best CB or WR. Somethign that fills a big need.

[noah larson]

You might as well get somebody that Luck already has chemistry with like Fleener.

[atapcl]

By boring I assume you mean the big uglies in the trenches. In order for the 3-4 to work a big tough NT is the biggest team need right now though there are a lot of holes to fill. The WR position this year is deep and we may be able to get a starter in the 3rd or 4th round. I prefer Josh Robinson at CB in round 2 but if a great NT is there we could not pass him up.

[SubZero]

I personally would love to have an exciting playmaker in round 2.......

BUT.....

What no one wants is another David Carr

(a great prospect, that gets clobbered in thier first year........ It effected his career.)

With our line in shambles, i expect a "safe" pick like the best available guard

A speedy WR would be great..... But keeping a 22 year old kid upright while he adjusts to the game seems like a better choice

I think they will beef up the defense in FA then get a young Offense in the draft

[Deano1818]

What's borng? You want the Colts to go after a popular player just because he's popular and has a little bit of talent. That's one of the stupidest things they could do. Pick the best CB or WR. Somethign that fills a big need.

You didnt read my post

The "boring" choice is actually the RIGHT choice, because unless we ge some beef on the OL from FA

Our new QB is going to get flattened

I say best Guard availalable early in the draft unless we make some big enroads into FA

This gives us some protection for Luck when he passes, and gets the running attack going which also takes the pressure off of Luck

For too long we have had some great skill position folks on offense, without the boring, "big uglies" (nice description) on the OL that is needed to be a complete team

[pacolts56]

My ideal (and realistic) scenario that impacts our 2nd round of the draft would be to.....

Sign OG Ben Grubbs and the best NT we can afford in free agency

After drafting Andrew Luck, then trade the #34 down for two mid round 2nd rounders and select TE Coby Fleener and mammoth OG Kelechi Osemele. Grubbs and Osemele cement the OG position and should pay dividends toward a balanced offense.

The best thing we can do for Andrew Luck is give him a familiar target in Fleener and a consistent running game.... i.e. a solid interior O-line.

If that is considered boring.... then I like boring.

[Deano1818]

By boring I assume you mean the big uglies in the trenches. In order for the 3-4 to work a big tough NT is the biggest team need right now though there are a lot of holes to fill. The WR position this year is deep and we may be able to get a starter in the 3rd or 4th round. I prefer Josh Robinson at CB in round 2 but if a great NT is there we could not pass him up.

It will be interesting to see where the top DTs end up in the draft.

I aggree that looking at this team, to move to a 3-4, the biggest hole is at NT.

I just dont see a true gamechanging NT available with pick 2.

[Andy]

You didnt read my post

The "boring" choice is actually the RIGHT choice, because unless we ge some beef on the OL from FA

Our new QB is going to get flattened

I say best Guard availalable early in the draft unless we make some big enroads into FA

This gives us some protection for Luck when he passes, and gets the running attack going which also takes the pressure off of Luck

For too long we have had some great skill position folks on offense, without the boring, "big uglies" (nice description) on the OL that is needed to be a complete team

We have two ever improving tackles and Reitz is good for now. The Colts should spend a 4th or 5th round pick on a G, and resign Jeff. There are many ways to improve our line without spending a 2nd round pick on a G. Either way, the guards goes like this:

1. Decastro (1st round)

2. Glenn (1st round)

3. Washington (mid to late 2nd round pick)

4. Osemele (late 2nd round pick)

If we pick a OG in the 2nd round, we would be picking a guard too early. Pick a CB that's expected to go at teh top of the 2nd round, a CB that has talent like Gilmore or Minnfield. The CB and Secondary is a bigger need than the O-line. Luck can scramble and be mobile. He also has a quick release, which is great. Protection is not the 1st thing on the priority list with Luck on the team. Draft other big needs like NT CB and WR then go to OG. I think he rather have good receivers than good guards.

[Deano1818]

We may agree to disagree.

We havnt had a Guard that could actually move a DT out of the way on this team since Ron Solt.

About 20 years ago.

I think the OTs will come around...... But we are TOAST with what we have in the middle.

With so many holes on this team....... You pick your poison..... Do you try to at least get the offense or the defense

To a viable solution.

To me, because our future Is around our new, learning QB, you get aggressive in protecting and building that

side of the ball first.

But... Either way....

It will be interesting to start the rebuilding process.

[ConnecticutColt]

Jeez this is going to be rough for a while

[JWF]

With how much the team is being blown up its going to be BPA with every pick. I think its going to be near impossible to predict any pick outside of Luck.

[Dan]

You might as well get somebody that Luck already has chemistry with like Fleener.

Not only that but Fleener is genuinely a very good TE. If he lasts to R2 I'd love to see us pick him.

[Andy]

We may agree to disagree. We havnt had a Guard that could actually move a DT out of the way on this team since Ron Solt. About 20 years ago. I think the OTs will come around...... But we are TOAST with what we have in the middle. With so many holes on this team....... You pick your poison..... Do you try to at least get the offense or the defense To a viable solution. To me, because our future Is around our new, learning QB, you get aggressive in protecting and building that side of the ball first. But... Either way.... It will be interesting to start the rebuilding process.

Um Jake Scott was a very good guard for the Colts especially in the early 2000's where the Colts had an amazing O-line.

I think you give the QB some new targets and some new players on the line, but you forget that we spent our first 2 picks on the O-line last year and they need to let some of these guys develop. Reitz is good for now and we have 2 great tackles. Saturday may return too. We could use a nice right guard and we could find that in the middle rounds. There are some good players below the radar in the middle rounds. Our biggest need besides QB is the secondary. The safety spot and cornerback spot suck and we have 2 starters in the secondary in Bethea and Powers. They need a new CB as this is a horrible S draft and you won't find starting strong safaties anywhere. Pick a CB and take that off as a big need, then go with our 2nd biggest need, NT which belongs to Mookie Johnson of all people. Get him out of there, then start worrying about the offense. You should't expect much from Luck in his first year, so start building up the defense first then give the kid some weapons + some O-line in the middle rounds. Rebuilding the offense is a longterm project and the defense needs to be fixed right away. Plus don't you think a guy like Pagano would want to fix the D first, not the offense.

[Andy]

Not only that but Fleener is genuinely a very good TE. If he lasts to R2 I'd love to see us pick him.

I think he will, but we have bigger needs. I good pick would be Orson Charles in the 4th round. Now, he's a 3rd round even 2nd round propsect, but he just got busted for a DUI which means his draft stock will fall. With a ton of picks in this years draft, the Colts could and should use a middle round on the best player on available and that would be Charles. Charles reminds me of Hernandez in every single way. Great talent, got caught doing something bad, both are fast, both have good hands and have good route running ability. Charles is the 3rd best TE in the draft if you ask me.

[pacolts56]

We have two ever improving tackles and Reitz is good for now. The Colts should spend a 4th or 5th round pick on a G, and resign Jeff. There are many ways to improve our line without spending a 2nd round pick on a G. Either way, the guards goes like this:

1. Decastro (1st round)

2. Glenn (1st round)

3. Washington (mid to late 2nd round pick)

4. Osemele (late 2nd round pick)

If we pick a OG in the 2nd round, we would be picking a guard too early. Pick a CB that's expected to go at teh top of the 2nd round, a CB that has talent like Gilmore or Minnfield. The CB and Secondary is a bigger need than the O-line. Luck can scramble and be mobile. He also has a quick release, which is great. Protection is not the 1st thing on the priority list with Luck on the team. Draft other big needs like NT CB and WR then go to OG. I think he rather have good receivers than good guards.

Andy.... we've tried that for 12 years and with the exception of Jake Scott we never really had any consistent quality at OG.... and most of the time we just flat out sucked at Guard.

I honestly think we should approach the rebuild of our O-line and D-lines with the best available players as soon as possible.

My preference is Ben Grubbs and Kelechi Osemele or one of the other 2nd round-graded prospects. But we need to attack that need full force IMO... and provide Luck with the run/pass balance that is often extremely helpful to rookie QBs.

[Andy]

Andy.... we've tried that for 12 years and with the exception of Jake Scott we never really had any consistent quality at OG.... and most of the time we just flat out sucked at Guard.

I honestly think we should approach the rebuild of our O-line and D-lines with the best available players as soon as possible.

My preference is Ben Grubbs and Kelechi Osemele or one of the other 2nd round-graded prospects. But we need to attack that need full force IMO... and provide Luck with the run/pass balance that is often extremely helpful to rookie QBs.

Um Ryan Lilja was pretty darn good too, and we only let him walk because he wanted a bigger contract. Those were the guards for many many years with the Colts.

Kelechi Osemele would be a good pick if he falls in the 3rd round. He's tricky though, way too much of a reach if they pick him in the 2nd, as he's a mid to late 2nd round talent. You know what also is helpful for rookie QBs, a good defense. Look at the Falcons in 2008, with the exception of Baker and Douglas, all of their picks (and they had a lot) were defense that included getting Lofton, and Decoud to help improve the D to help Matt Ryan their new QB. Having a balance offense works well if you have a running back that is willing and ready to take the load off the QB. Brown hasn't been able to do that, and next year, the Colts are probably not going very far unless Luck has the best season by a rookie QB ever. So what they should do is go with a pass heavy offense (60/40) to give Luck a good feel of what the future will be like and give him some good experience. Having him pass 22 times a game won't give you as good experience as a good who throws 34 times a game. The offense is a rebuilding project, much more than the defense. The defense already has the majority of their "players of the future" with Bethea, Angerer, Conner, Powers and even Mathis (but not for that long). The offense only has Austin Collie, Luck, TAmme and Brown + Castonzo/Ijalana. Brown isn't that great and Collie is not a #1 WR. The offense needs help, but let's fix the D and start rebuilding slowly on offense. A couple of starters year after year.

[Deano1818]

Again..... Have to agree to disagree

Illja and Scott were decent pass blocking guards.

Neither was great at moving the pile

I will stand by my post that Ron Solt was the last guard that the Colts had that could actually consitently move the pile.

This is evident when we needed to run in the playoffs...... And couldnt.....

Year.... After year...... After year

The Colts should have won 5 or 6 super bowls......

When you cant run in January...... You dont get to the Super bowl

We need to learn from the past

I woud like to move from guards that are ok to guards that can actually run block

[Andy]

Again..... Have to agree to disagree

Illja and Scott were decent pass blocking guards.

Neither was decent moving the pile

I will stand by my post that Ron Solt was the last guard that the Colts had that could actually consitently move the pile.

I woud like to move from guards that are ok to guards that can actually run block

But both were a part of a line that was arguably the best in the league. Tarik Glenn and Jeff in their primes helps a lot, but Lilja and Scott were big reasons why James was as good as he is. No one can run very well with a terrible run blocking O-line.

[coltnorth]

Osemele has been mocked the the first multiple times and would be a perfect pick. He will be a dominating guard who can clear the road and pass block. He also plays tackle so if one of the colts tackles goes down he could slide over. Our defense will need the offense to stay on the field a bit this year. If we don't draft a solid WR with 34 then Osemele will be the next best thing. At least if we can run the ball a bit better, we can sustain some drive and let the D rest. 3 and outs over and over again will kill any D. The O has to function

[Flux]

Also, you can throw in the fact that Grigson is a former O-lineman and that Pagano has said that he wants to re-establish the run game. It all points to going interior O-line early if it's not addressed in FA. I'm all for bpa with the current state of the Colts which means I will likely be disappointed with our 2nd and 3rd round picks with the amount of talent that seems to be there with the position players...I really hope we can sign a guard in FA

[Deano1818]

But both were a part of a line that was arguably the best in the league. Tarik Glenn and Jeff in their primes helps a lot, but Lilja and Scott were big reasons why James was as good as he is. No one can run very well with a terrible run blocking O-line.

That line was not best in the league. Not even close. They could pass block. Of course having a QB with a quick release might have assisted

Our yards on the ground came against nickle coverages, not because our OL pushed anyone around

So again....

Build the OL first. Build a balanced offense, we will do great things in the long run

[Andy]

That line was not best in the league. Not even close. They could pass block. Of course having a QB with a quick release might have assisted

Our yards on the ground came against nickle coverages, not because our OL pushed anyone around

So again....

Build the OL first. Build a balanced offense, we will do great things in the long run

Ok, let's take the 2004 Colts O-line. LT Glenn.........LG Demulling............C Saturday............RG Scott..............RT Diem

That O-line allowed 13 sacks in one year, that's gotta be a record. That is phenomenal. The run blocking was great too as Edge had 1500 yards rushing and averaged 4.7ypc. That's impressive, an O-line that could pass block the best and open holes for a 1500 yard rusher. They were the best O-line in the league in those days.

Oh, use the quick release excuse. I guess the Saints, Packers and Patriots have average O-lines because their QB is good...Their QBs are as good as they are because of their lines. That was the same situation with the Colts. If Manning gets pressured a lot of the time, he doesn't get to 49TDs or have that impeccable 121.1 passer rating.

We have added 2 good tackles to our O-line and Reitz is a good short-term solution (could start this year and next year, but that's it). We could find a good center in the later rounds and the Colts can resign Pollak. The line has nowhere to go, but up. The Colts should help the offense, but get the defense to a certain level (top 10ish), and then worry about getting good players on that offense. They have their QB, their TE and a good reliable receiver in Collie. Brown should do well too.

[Deano1818]

Andy..... We agree on one point.....

This line has no where to go but up

It isnt a proven line with two inconsistent and / or injured rookies from last year

A center that is at the end of his career

A glaring hole at one guard spot

Another guard that was a castoff, that is serviceable at best

As a whole this line needs wholesale help

[FightLikeSin]

There are so many holes to fill now, there is not really a wrong pick at #34 unless its another QB. I'd like to see WR or SS before OG's or OT's.

[Mouthfire]

I'm going to agree with Deano on this one. Where the Colts went wrong in the past, IMO, was emphasis on skills players rather than trench players.

The Pats did this during their championship runs. It's not sexy, but it gives you a lot more consistency over the long haul.

Build from the inside out. Draft some offensive linemen and DT's. You're not going to make a SB run in the near future, so you might as well build the foundation now, as well as protect your investment in Luck. You can always emphasize skills players in later drafts... but if you can't protect your rookie QB now, you're going to be in a world of hurt (a la David Carr).

[pacolts56]

Ok, let's take the 2004 Colts O-line. LT Glenn.........LG Demulling............C Saturday............RG Scott..............RT Diem

That O-line allowed 13 sacks in one year, that's gotta be a record. That is phenomenal. The run blocking was great too as Edge had 1500 yards rushing and averaged 4.7ypc. That's impressive, an O-line that could pass block the best and open holes for a 1500 yard rusher. They were the best O-line in the league in those days.

Oh, use the quick release excuse. I guess the Saints, Packers and Patriots have average O-lines because their QB is good...Their QBs are as good as they are because of their lines. That was the same situation with the Colts. If Manning gets pressured a lot of the time, he doesn't get to 49TDs or have that impeccable 121.1 passer rating.

We have added 2 good tackles to our O-line and Reitz is a good short-term solution (could start this year and next year, but that's it). We could find a good center in the later rounds and the Colts can resign Pollak. The line has nowhere to go, but up. The Colts should help the offense, but get the defense to a certain level (top 10ish), and then worry about getting good players on that offense. They have their QB, their TE and a good reliable receiver in Collie. Brown should do well too.

Andy.... that was a nice walk down memory lane but our rushing attack and run blocking, since the 07 Super Bowl win.... has been deplorable.

Statistically, we've been at or near the bottom of the NFL in rushing for 4 years now... and the inconsistency of our run game was also driven further by our philosophical over-reliance on the passing game.... which IMO short-circuited 1-2 more Lombardis with that much better (and in their prime) pre-Super Bowl O-line that you reminded us of.

I think the disagreement here is more about how to address it and not whether or not we should. And there are two pieces to it.

First of all is the willingness to balance the run/pass philosophy of the offense, which will happen by necessity now that Peyton is gone. And it sounds like Pagano is moving us toward more balance.

And secondly is to firmly address the interior of the O-line with more physical and better players because we've "economized" at the OG position for years... and while Peyton was able to mask some of that shortfall, it bit us in the rear end against playoff teams on more than one occasion when we just plain needed to smash mouth it.

At the very least San Diego booted us out of the playoffs in 08 because we couldn't convert a 3rd and short and bleed out the clock.... and I would also argue that the Super Bowl loss to New Orleans started to turn when we failed again on a 3rd and short as the 1st half wound down and the Saints, not us, scored as the 1st half closed. We also panicked, IMO, and completely abandoned the run game in the 2nd half of the loss to Pittsburgh in '05.

Philosophy and personnel.

I'm as big a fan of late-round steals as anyone... and maybe Grigson will be better at O-line drafting than Polian was.... but we're gonna have a rookie QB that needs a solid run option, which Luck showed a very promising willingness to use when he operated Stanford's offense while still putting up excellent passing numbers.

So in my mind.... OG and a strong running game is a very high priority.

Thats why I'd like to see us bring in Grubbs or Nicks and add another solid OG early in the draft.... and along with Castonzo and Ijalana, hopefully get our O-line squared away.

[Deano1818]

A great OL will always make the skill positions on offense better

A great OL will allow the offense to hold the ball longer, keeping the defense from being on the field longer

And getting worn down

A great OL will allow you to have those wins in an outdoor stadium when the wind, rain, and snow effects A passing game

A great OL keeps a young QB healthy and learning the game

As is, This OL is not great, this OL is not good.

I view our 2 rookies as potential at this point...... Maybe they will be good, maybe they will be great....

But neither was dominating

My guess is that Saturday is gone.

We have huge holes here.

I wouldnt be sad if we did the right thing...... And got the top guard with our second round pick, and picked up a G/C in FA

Once again... Not sexy..... Sort of boring, but the right move.

A debateable topic about an OL from 2004, seems to not impact our current situation

Maybe they can all come out of retirement and play again