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Lawrence Owen

Would you trade for Antonio Brown?

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8 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

oh, who is this certain someone? I haven't paid that close attention. I've not went on a "We NEED to sign" anyone in particular myself. I've made my opinion that we do need a WR and elite pass rusher.  Not necessarily F.A. though.  Even though this year WR draft stock is pretty bad IMO.  I'm sure Ballard will find the appropriate people to fill those positions.

I will say this though. For everyone who thinks Ballard won't sign a big name, or take a chance on character, They really don't know Ballard, or have only heard what they want to. Ballard has spent big in F.A. before, and taken highly red flagged people.  And he never said he wouldn't again.  He did say he wanted to build a locker room first. He has definitely built his locker room. Whom he gets in F.A. i think will surprise a lot of people.  Probably including myself. 

Especially since he has to spend a lot of the cap this year (happy new year). resigning and extensions won't come close to the bare minimum he has to spend.  I asked Over the Cap to make sure not too long ago.

 

What red flagged player has he selected in Indy?  I know about the KC stuff, but he wasn't making the final decisions there so I don't care about that.

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Actually i think Ballard would not take a  chance more because of his age and contract.  I think if he was 27 he would

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5 minutes ago, BOTT said:

What red flagged player has he selected in Indy?  I know about the KC stuff, but he wasn't making the final decisions there so I don't care about that.

Collins has been suspended multiple times for failing drug screens. That one tops my mind.  And he was signed,..he was on the 53 man roster for the last game.

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6 minutes ago, BOTT said:

What red flagged player has he selected in Indy?

 

Cain?  I don't know if that's a red flag.  Maybe more of a maroon.  Or orange.  :P

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1 minute ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Collins has been suspended multiple times for failing drug screens. That one tops my mind.  And he was signed,..he was on the 53 man roster for the last game.

Meh......marginal player who has been suspended for PEDS.   Nobody really cares about that.

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2 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Collins has been suspended multiple times for failing drug screens.

 

Yeah, but wasn't he claimed off waivers?

 

Ballard didn't give up a draft pick for him.

 

And Ballard has already said he wouldn't select a guy with character concerns before the 5th round of the draft.

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I don't want to bring in AB, but it would be at a bargain for us. Pittsburgh would have to pay the remainder of Signing Bonus money, subtracting $3.8m/ yr of his cap hit.

 

2019 - $22,165,000 - $3,800,000

2019 cap hit: $18,365,000

 

2020 - $18,340,000 - $3,800,000

2020 cap hit: $14,540,000

 

2021 - $19,540,000 - $3,800,000

2021 cap hit: $15,740,000($3,240,000 dead cap)

 

3yrs - $48,465,000 with only $12,220,000 in guaranteed money

 

So really it is a pretty solid deal for us, still don't want his pi$$ pour attitude on our team.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Yeah, but wasn't he claimed off waivers?

 

Ballard didn't give up a draft pick for him.

 

And Ballard has already said he wouldn't select a guy with character concerns before the 5th round of the draft.

I do remember him saying that. But that's the draft,  He didn't say that about F.A.  He did say he wanted a locker room foundation established before he'd get someone with character concerns in F.A.  A lot of people remember the first part of that conversation...but somehow completely forgot that last part...lol.  He said he and his people would look into everyone, and make a decision that is best for the team.  Sometimes a little (or a lot, like Ebron) character is good for an organization.  Just depends on how they strike Ballard when he interviews them i guess. 

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1 hour ago, Surge89 said:

 

I would love to have his talent in a colts uniform.  But would hate to have his stats driven attitude on this team. It's a big no thank you. Also he wouldn't survive here. This teams cares about winning not fantasy football. The idealogoy alone would ostracize him. 

 

On top of that Ballard would most likely never attempt to trade for him. 

No too much baggage plus they would want too much for him.

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I'd rather use our first round pick on a receiver and develop our own AB. There's zero percent chance we give up draft capital for him and his large contract. Zero.

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12 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

I do remember him saying that. But that's the draft,  He didn't say that about F.A.  He did say he wanted a locker room foundation established before he'd get someone with character concerns in F.A.  A lot of people remember the first part of that conversation...but somehow completely forgot that last part...lol.  He said he and his people would look into everyone, and make a decision that is best for the team.  Sometimes a little (or a lot, like Ebron) character is good for an organization.  Just depends on how they strike Ballard when he interviews them i guess. 

I could be wrong, but I think Ballard was referencing off the field character concerns, not players who are viewed as potential locker room cancers.  

I could see him having interest in someone like Kareem hunt (although Irsay would probably nix it), but would be stunned if he showed interest in Brown.

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No way.  We will need the money to re-sign our own soon enough.  Besides, Brown would be a horrible influence on this young team.  I also think he's somewhat over-rated. 

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7 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

beckrage.0.gif

odell-beckham-cheap-shot-on-josh-norman.

And the kicking net counters with the solid left!! Down goes Beckham!! :lol:

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41 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I'd rather use our first round pick on a receiver and develop our own AB. There's zero percent chance we give up draft capital for him and his large contract. Zero.

IMO, I don't think there are many WR's worthy of a 1st round pick.  None worth top 15 (even though we don't have one this year

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They said the draft this year is pretty heavy with defensive players. I don’t watch college football or pay attention to the draft but that is what I heard.

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23 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

For all the talk of Bell, It was reported Antonio Brown was angry with Big Ben this past week.  And he did not play in the game against the Bengals because of it.  I know it's not going to happen because Brown just signed a huge 4 year deal last year, BUT OMG, could you even imagine Antonio Brown on the Colts?

To have T.Y. Hilton, Eric Ebron, Jack Doyle, Antonio Brown, Marlon Mack, Andrew Luck, and THIS offensive line next year.  This would be the #1 offense in the NFL, and there is not 1 single player you could double up on, and have any thought to handling the others.  

This is why I say having another impact receiver would do this offense wonders. You absolutely could not stack the box, even with us having 2 TE's on the field, because of the receiving threats.  And you could not go nickel packages all the time because this o-line and Mack would train wreck you.

Let's not say Brown,...but an impact receiver such as him, or Julio, or OBJ, or even Evans on this team, and you were an opposing DC having to prepare for this team. How would you?

I don't think this is a yes/no proposition.  I find AB very interesting because players win games and he's one heck of a player, massive speed and great hands, a lot to like on the field.  However, there's a process to this type of thing like anything else and to me it goes like this:  

                             

First, re-sign all our guys who are FA's this year, we have a lot of guys we need to re-up and I'd like to see us keep most of them in blue!  

 

Second becomes who are our FA targets and does his skill / value exceed what we are looking at in FA?  In FA we only have to spend money no draft collateral so there's a lot of trade-off's here to consider.  No matter how good AB is, no 30YO receiver gets #1 pick value, I might part with a second rounder but I'm no GM.

 

Third on any major contract, you have to look beyond the current year, so what are the implications of year two and three on the deal.  You see, if in year two and three we can't re-sign Kelly (as an example) because of the AB deal, then I don't like it so much especially on a 32-year-old receiver at that point.

 

I happen to believe culture trumps all and the Steelers have a horrible culture right now. Chris, Frank, and Andrew have built a stellar culture in Indy, perhaps AB could be a good Colt if immersed in that type of environment.  Now, that doesn't mean it's the right move but I do think it merits some level of consideration. 

 

If we were actually looking to work a trade I might opt more for a Von Miller deal but that would be another thread.  :) On to the Texans... 

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8 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

beckrage.0.gif

odell-beckham-cheap-shot-on-josh-norman.

This is funny.  That video is supposed to be a reason for not pursuing Beckham if he becomes available?  Seriously.  You should take a look at all of the videos of Rivers and Brady throwing their helmets among other antics just to name a few.  Players get upset all the time.  Star players no less.   Helmet to helmet.  I guess he was trying to give himself a concussion too.  Come on. 

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Last year I questioned Ballard's frugal mentality. Now I look back and he looks like a genius passing on all those FA busts. Also with Ballard picking I'm not giving Pitt our 1st when he can make that 1st rounder a cheap, high-quality starter. I trust in Ballard whatever happens this offseason. But 120 is a lot to sit on...:2c:

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No, I would NIT trade for Antonio Brown.     That’s 30-year old Antonio Brown.   30. 

 

I’d use our second 2nd round pick, roughly pick 55 on a WR, and I’d try to sign FA WR Tyrell Williams from San Diego. 

 

Now you'd have Inman, Rodgers, Cain, Fountain, and Pascal to fight it out for spots 4, 5 and maybe 6.

 

Position upgraded!

 

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44 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

IMO, I don't think there are many WR's worthy of a 1st round pick.  None worth top 15 (even though we don't have one this year

I agree.  Perfect example is Davis in Tennessee.  Top 6 pick but no qb to get him the ball.  To me it is the last position u look at upgrading on a team.

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14 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

This is funny.  That video is supposed to be a reason for not pursuing Beckham if he becomes available?  Seriously.  You should take a look at all of the videos of Rivers and Brady throwing their helmets among other antics just to name a few.  Players get upset all the time.  Star players no less.   Helmet to helmet.  I guess he was trying to give himself a concussion too.  Come on. 

 

I was simply answering a question about what OBJ has done that TY hasn't.

 

And for the record, I'd rather have Luck than Rivers or Brady.   :thmup:

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Antonio Brown, or Antonio Brown and his attitude and behavior? 

 

The two answers are very different...

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3 hours ago, w87r said:

I don't want to bring in AB, but it would be at a bargain for us. Pittsburgh would have to pay the remainder of Signing Bonus money, subtracting $3.8m/ yr of his cap hit.

 

2019 - $22,165,000 - $3,800,000

2019 cap hit: $18,365,000

 

2020 - $18,340,000 - $3,800,000

2020 cap hit: $14,540,000

 

2021 - $19,540,000 - $3,800,000

2021 cap hit: $15,740,000($3,240,000 dead cap)

 

3yrs - $48,465,000 with only $12,220,000 in guaranteed money

 

So really it is a pretty solid deal for us, still don't want his pi$$ pour attitude on our team.

 

 

 

Perhaps his attitude would be different on a Colts roster.

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WHATEVER, CB & staff believes is the right move, IM ALL IN!  It’s fun to speculate as a fan but I trust this STAFF to bring us to dominance!  

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5 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

IMO, I don't think there are many WR's worthy of a 1st round pick.  None worth top 15 (even though we don't have one this year

 

I didn't say there was... or that we should use our first (because we won't, probably not even a 2nd) Edit: we will have several good options in the 2nd round, IMO.

 

I just said I would rather... obviously hasn't panned out well for this franchise for some time. We can find a strong WR in FA in my opinion... 

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4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

No, I would NIT trade for Antonio Brown.     That’s 30-year old Antonio Brown.   30. 

 

I’d use our second 2nd round pick, roughly pick 55 on a WR, and I’d try to sign FA WR Tyrell Williams from San Diego. 

 

Now you'd have Inman, Rodgers, Cain, Fountain, and Pascal to fight it out for spots 4, 5 and maybe 6.

 

Position upgraded!

 

 

This is key. We don't need AB, we just need to upgrade the receiving core a bit. And it's already upgraded from the start of the season by virtue of developing some talented guys already on roster. There is plenty of avenues to upgrade the position this offseason without overspending (sending draft picks is overspending more than a big salary)

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13 hours ago, aaron11 said:

hasnt missed more than 2 games since 2012 when he missed 3.  

 

the real problems in Pittsburgh are the coach and qb.  

Bell was suspended in 2015, 2016, and did even show his face in the locker room all year this year! I would definitely say he is part of the problem 

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I'm not sure if anyone posted any of this previously, as I skipped from page 1 to this page:

 

 

 

 

There's absolutely no way Ballard brings in such a selfish player. Forget high salary. Forget 30 yr old WR. Ballard won't trade for AB because it would completely contradict what he has talked about as his vision for the locker room culture and what the team has mentioned as one of their biggest strengths. This team has been so successful because we don't have any AB's and I don't see us bringing in a guy that could completely poison our locker room.

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I feel like some of have been very quick to pass some judgement on the AB situation. I never really took him as a diva or a needy player. Something strange is going on in Pittsburgh. This obviously isn't the first time they've have a problem with a star player. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, cjrulli said:

I feel like some of have been very quick to pass some judgement on the AB situation. I never really took him as a diva or a needy player. Something strange is going on in Pittsburgh. This obviously isn't the first time they've have a problem with a star player. 

 

 

Watch the video I posted in the post above yours. Ryan Clark, someone that was in the same locker room as AB for years, had not so good things to say about the type of guy he is.

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15 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I was simply answering a question about what OBJ has done that TY hasn't.

 

And for the record, I'd rather have Luck than Rivers or Brady.   :thmup:

i dont have any problems with OB hitting the net like that.  non issue to me

 

ty has gotten mad and called out team mates before too, stuff happens they are football players not saints 

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7 hours ago, Shive said:

I'm not sure if anyone posted any of this previously, as I skipped from page 1 to this page:

 

 

 

 

There's absolutely no way Ballard brings in such a selfish player. Forget high salary. Forget 30 yr old WR. Ballard won't trade for AB because it would completely contradict what he has talked about as his vision for the locker room culture and what the team has mentioned as one of their biggest strengths. This team has been so successful because we don't have any AB's and I don't see us bringing in a guy that could completely poison our locker room.

 

Well, isn't he special.

He's dead to me.

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14 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i dont have any problems with OB hitting the net like that.  non issue to me

 

ty has gotten mad and called out team mates before too, stuff happens they are football players not saints 

Or how about TY spelling  his "TY" after he scores a touchdown and that is not diva like?  It screams I am TY, look at me.  Or how about Reggie showing up at training camp the 1st. day in some crazy way.  Making himself the story on the that day.  That says look at me.  Both of these examples are diva like and both by Colts WR's.  I have no problem with either.  Just young players having fun and expressing themselves. 

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So I see quite a few people saying "aren't they all divas?"  I go back to guys like Terrell Owens.  He really was a terrific talent.  But he was a locker room cancer.  He had a tendency to tear teams apart.

 

Jerry Rice? I am sure he had his diva qualities. Still a terrific talent that understood he was part of a team.  He couldn't succeed without the others on the team succeeding too.  We want a guy like Jerry Rice (or maybe the poor man's Jerry Rice).

 

Bottom line for me is you don't walk out on your team mates.  This past week Brown got mad and walked out.  Period.  

 

I really hope the Colts can find a great WR this off season.  But I don't want a guy like Brown or OBJ on this team.  And I bet Ballard doesn't either.

 

 

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I would consider it, but ultimately not make a huge move to do it. With Dontrell Innman, Deon Cain, TY, and probably another pick in the coming draft plus our TE group, theres little "need" to trade for AB. Frank has shown the ability to scheme TY open vs relying on TY alone to break free, and if Doyel/Ebron/Mo are all healthy an entire season I just dont see us going Jerry

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4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Or how about TY spelling  his "TY" after he scores a touchdown and that is not diva like?  It screams I am TY, look at me.  Or how about Reggie showing up at training camp the 1st. day in some crazy way.  Making himself the story on the that day.  That says look at me.  Both of these examples are diva like and both by Colts WR's.  I have no problem with either.  Just young players having fun and expressing themselves. 

 

I've never seen anyone try to spin either of those into a negative.  How did those things hurt the team? 

 

AB threw a hissy fit and abandoned his team for the most important game of the year!!!

 

OBJ hurt his team by getting a suspension for the Josh Norman antics.  And let's not forget the "white substance" incident.

 

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21 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Or how about TY spelling  his "TY" after he scores a touchdown and that is not diva like?  It screams I am TY, look at me.  Or how about Reggie showing up at training camp the 1st. day in some crazy way.  Making himself the story on the that day.  That says look at me.  Both of these examples are diva like and both by Colts WR's.  I have no problem with either.  Just young players having fun and expressing themselves. 

 

It's owners and GMs that think this way - any diva activity is the same - that have ruined teams by going and getting a real diva. 

 

In my opinion a real diva is the guy who puts himself above the team.  I don't see TY doing that.  I could be wrong since I am not in that locker room and not on the practice field, etc.  I was a little concerned about some things TY said last year, but he has stayed hard working and pretty quiet, being a part of the team and only drawing attention to himself after scoring a touchdown.  He also lived through the bad years during the prime of his career.  It would have been easy to try and get traded, released, or something to move on.  He didn't.  He stuck it out.

 

Throwing a fit and leaving practice and then not coming back to practice or team meetings in no where near the same thing!  You can't even compare the two.  That is incredibly immature for a guy who is supposed to be a seasoned veteran.

 

No:  TY does not equal AB on the diva scale!  If TY threw a fit and walked out on practice and didn't return until game time I would be fine if the Colts let him go.

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