It Was Idiotic Not To Trade The Pick.

[eli4625]

Horrible comparison, and I don't even have to use any form of argument to prove that, it's called common sense...

How so? We had s proven winning QB and instead went with an unproven college QB...

[Ramblinwreck7]

How so? We had s proven winning QB and instead went with an unproven college QB...

Jim Harbaugh 1997, the year before they drafted Peyton Manning? Look up the stats, look up the colts record when they picked Peyton Manning, look that Jim Harbaugh was the starter for the colts the year they had the worst record in the NFL. It's not like Harbaugh was exactly playing well or anything. You can't compare Jim Harbaugh to Peyton Manning.

[GoColts8818]

Jim Harbaugh 1997? Look up the stats, look up the colts record when they picked Peyton Manning, look that Jim Harbaugh was the starter for the colts the year they had the worst record in the NFL. It's not like Harbaugh was exactly playing well or anything. You can't compare Jim Harbaugh to Peyton Manning.

You can't compare the players but you can compare the situations which is what they were doing.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Or he could be like JIm Kelly of the Bills of the 80s and get the team to the SB and lose not once but 4 times. Would be a good pick huh.

Really? If Luck gets to SB 4 times, and makes HOF, like Jim Kelly has, that would be bad? Really?

[Vance]

That's just a crazy amount to give up....especially to move up 6 spots.

Snyder is an *.

Even Bmore wouldn't have done that.

[Ramblinwreck7]

You can't compare the players but you can compare the situations which is what they were doing.

The players and the situations go hand in hand.

[braveheartcolt]

It's funny how people think that Luck is going to come in here and win us a Super Bowl in 4 years. Open your eye's he has no weapons to throw too. There are no pieces in place to build on. This team is in shambles. If everyone just closed there eyes for a minute and tried to remember what happens to QB's with potential when they have no supporting cast, they would think of David Carr.

I still can't believe there are posters that believe Manning is not healthy enough to play again. My gosh, Tom Moore was there at Duke for the five days Manning was throwing. We all seen the video, insiders have spoken to Tom and he has said Manning is ready, sign him. What else do you want to believe. Manning for 3 to 4 more years could have given us a chance and I honestly believe he would have renegociated the contract but Irsay never went that far. We could have managed this rebuild a lot better than just cleaning house and tring to just start over. I'm sure it makes organizational since to the Colts but the fanbase isn't as friendly when you ask them to pay money to watch a subpar product. Our economy isn't that good fokes and people would much rather stay home and pay for the NFL ticket at a much lesser price than a $1000 plus dollars to go watch it live.

Seen the video? Unfortunately NFL games don't last 29 seconds. Anyone who thinks that video was valid proof that he is guaranteed to return to full health is living in a dream world. Also VERY convenient to omit the financial risks in keeping him.

[GoColts8818]

The players and the situations go hand in hand.

Not always clearly Jim Harbaugh was never the player that Manning was but we did move our starter to make room for a rookie then just as we did this year. So it's the same situations just different players.

[Warhorse]

Not always clearly Jim Harbaugh was never the player that Manning was but we did move our starter to make room for a rookie then just as we did this year. So it's the same situations just different players.

True. However, Pete Best was replaced with Ringo Star. Same situation, different players, entirely different impact.

[GoColts8818]

True. However, Pete Best was replaced with Ringo Star. Same situation, different players, entirely different impact.

Well I hope Luck does have the same impact Manning did.

I am not arguing that clearly Harbaugh wasn't the same player Manning is now I am just saying the situations are the same which they are. Clearly the talent level of the players we are talkng about aren't the same I don't think anyone is even trying to suggest that. Myself and another poster are just trying to explain to ramblinwreck that the situations were the in that just like in 98 and now we moved our starting QB to make room for the first pick in the draft that is all. Just because Harbaugh wasn't the player that Manning was doesn't mean it's not the same situation.

[John Dee]

Too late to be playing "what-ifs". The pressure is on Luck. He is not only replacing Manning, but essentially Manning was dumped to make room for him and we passed on a multiplicity of high end draft picks.

This is truly a situation in which we can fairly say "He better be worth it"!

Why is that the fact Manning "refused" to restructure or even agree to sign for less keep getting lost in this equation? Manning could be a Colt "if he wanted to be a Colt" .......

Irsay is not the heavy here, and Luck has absolutely NO pressure on him at all. This team is in total rebuild mode. Peyton wanted NO part of it, and I don't blame him. But to say he was "kicked to the curb" for Luck is totally wrong. Manning's health, contract, and Colt's draft position were all factors in Irsay "reevaluating" Manning's status with the team.

Peyton is getting a lot of hugz and kissz here but lets not lose sight of the fact that "HE had/has the option to play wherever he wanted/wants" And Indy was not even a consideration. And for obvious reasons.

[John Dee]

True. However, Pete Best was replaced with Ringo Star. Same situation, different players, entirely different impact.

Are you trying to say that the drummer for the Beatles was relevant?

[Ramblinwreck7]

Why is that the fact Manning "refused" to restructure or even agree to sign for less keep getting lost in this equation? Manning could be a Colt "if he wanted to be a Colt" .......

Irsay is not the heavy here, and Luck has absolutely NO pressure on him at all. This team is in total rebuild mode. Peyton wanted NO part of it, and I don't blame him. But to say he was "kicked to the curb" for Luck is totally wrong. Manning's health, contract, and Colt's draft position were all factors in Irsay "reevaluating" Manning's status with the team.

Peyton is getting a lot of hugz and kissz here but lets not lose sight of the fact that "HE had/has the option to play wherever he wanted/wants" And Indy was not even a consideration. And for obvious reasons.

How do you know the Peyton refused to restructure his contract?

[John Dee]

How do you know the Peyton refused to restructure his contract?

ummm ..... where was he today?

[Jules]

Why is that the fact Manning "refused" to restructure or even agree to sign for less keep getting lost in this equation? Manning could be a Colt "if he wanted to be a Colt" .......

Irsay is not the heavy here, and Luck has absolutely NO pressure on him at all. This team is in total rebuild mode. Peyton wanted NO part of it, and I don't blame him. But to say he was "kicked to the curb" for Luck is totally wrong. Manning's health, contract, and Colt's draft position were all factors in Irsay "reevaluating" Manning's status with the team.

Peyton is getting a lot of hugz and kissz here but lets not lose sight of the fact that "HE had/has the option to play wherever he wanted/wants" And Indy was not even a consideration. And for obvious reasons.

You know who has the most pressure on him next season, IMO? Peyton Manning. His new fanbase will expect the world. I disagree with those who think Luck has the most pressure on him. Most are scratching their heads as to what the team will look like around him next season. On the flip side Trent Dilfer and others think having Peyton instantly gives you 10 wins and makes you a contender.....that is much more pressure for him and his new team I feel.

Any wins by the Colts and signs of good things by Luck will be praised. Most think this team will suck, hard.

I don't mind having low expectations again for a few years personally. It's almost a refreshing change.

[SanAntonioColt]

but he might be the best in the last 14 years to come out.

He won't be a Peyton Manning. He might not be the best to come out since Peyton. Oh well, time will tell.

[OldManP]

He won't be a Peyton Manning. He might not be the best to come out since Peyton. Oh well, time will tell.

Get over it. Manning's time as a Colt is over. You can enjoy the games going forward. Or you can whine about how great it was when he was a Colt.

[ruksak]

Why is that the fact Manning "refused" to restructure or even agree to sign for less keep getting lost in this equation? Manning could be a Colt "if he wanted to be a Colt" .......

Irsay is not the heavy here, and Luck has absolutely NO pressure on him at all. This team is in total rebuild mode. Peyton wanted NO part of it, and I don't blame him. But to say he was "kicked to the curb" for Luck is totally wrong. Manning's health, contract, and Colt's draft position were all factors in Irsay "reevaluating" Manning's status with the team.

Peyton is getting a lot of hugz and kissz here but lets not lose sight of the fact that "HE had/has the option to play wherever he wanted/wants" And Indy was not even a consideration. And for obvious reasons.

I'm not angry with any one person here. I'm angry at the situation and I blame no one. The facts are, Manning had to go for one reason only.....Andrew Luck. Manning would've been retained with appropriate effort from Irsay if it were not for Andrew Luck. We wouldn't have axed Manning, nor would Manning have decided to leave, if this Luck kid weren't available to us.

[UndecidedFrog]

I'm not angry with any one person here. I'm angry at the situation and I blame no one. The facts are, Manning had to go for one reason only.....Andrew Luck. Manning would've been retained with appropriate effort from Irsay if it were not for Andrew Luck. We wouldn't have axed Manning, nor would Manning have decided to leave, if this Luck kid weren't available to us.

I disagree. If Luck was not in this year's draft, the Colts would have still made the moves they did, and pick RG3 with the overall #1 pick.

[Jaric]

I seriously dont get the Andrew Luck hate by a big part of this forum.

It's pretty simple really.

He's not Peyton Manning.

[UndecidedFrog]

It's pretty simple really.

He's not Peyton Manning.

Yes indeed.

Before the Colts released PM, these haters were against any strategy that would potentially make PM expendable, including drafting Luck.

Instead they supported using a lower round pick to draft the Colts' QB of the future that would require however many years to become NFL-ready as it took for PM to finally decide to retire.

[ruksak]

I disagree. If Luck was not in this year's draft, the Colts would have still made the moves they did, and pick RG3 with the overall #1 pick.

Ya think? I'm not sure if that would've been the choice? I would like to think that they would have traded picks for Griffin and retained Manning. Dunno, you're probably right though.

[UndecidedFrog]

Ya think? I'm not sure if that would've been the choice? I would like to think that they would have traded picks for Griffin and retained Manning. Dunno, you're probably right though.

Yes. I think without Luck in the picture, Irsay would have seen the need to rebuild, and see RG3 as the option with which to replace PM.

Luck is rated a 99/100. RG3 is rated 96/100. Not too shabby. If these ratings correspond to Irsay's thinking, then I see him acting on RG3 as well, if Luck wasn't there.

Last year Cam Newton was a 94/100.

[dgambill]

Yes indeed.

Before the Colts released PM, these haters were against any strategy that would potentially make PM expendable, including drafting Luck.

Instead they supported using a lower round pick to draft the Colts' QB of the future that would require however many years to become NFL-ready as it took for PM to finally decide to retire.

I think throwing around words like "Haters" about people that disagree about the decision that was made is very sad. I certainly don't "HATE" Luck...quite the contrary. Doesn't mean however I didn't think we would have been better off sitting him a year or two and continuing with Manning while Luck learned the craft from one of the greatest of all time. Those that said we couldn't afford to do so are simply wrong. Trading Freeney shows how much cap space we could saved while getting a pick to replace him freeing up cash to resign core players like Garcon and Saturday and still get FA. I would very much appreciate people not stereotyping or throwing blanket references on others one way or another. I certainly don't hold it that you are a Peyton "Hater" because you agree with moving him. We are all Colts fans but think the best way to go was different. I think mostly you see A LOT of people that "HATE" losing and going through seasons like this year and those that came before PM and worry about that in the future. I think many agree that PM has enough left in him to have bought us time or allowed Luck to benefit from picking his brain...following him into the film room... Learning the offense from him that would have given him even a better opportunity to be successful. Certainly there are some "Haters" perhaps one or two...but most people that didn't want Luck or at least didn't want to lose PM just hate losing.

[dgambill]

Yes. I think without Luck in the picture, Irsay would have seen the need to rebuild, and see RG3 as the option with which to replace PM.

Luck is rated a 99/100. RG3 is rated 96/100. Not too shabby. If these ratings correspond to Irsay's thinking, then I see him acting on RG3 as well, if Luck wasn't there.

Last year Cam Newton was a 94/100.

I think Irsay would have picked RG3 and sat him behind Peyton....just my opinion. That said we are lucky to get Luck...I would have prefered to have both him and PM though.

[ruksak]

Yes. I think without Luck in the picture, Irsay would have seen the need to rebuild, and see RG3 as the option with which to replace PM.

Luck is rated a 99/100. RG3 is rated 96/100. Not too shabby. If these ratings correspond to Irsay's thinking, then I see him acting on RG3 as well, if Luck wasn't there.

Last year Cam Newton was a 94/100.

Curious, where do you get these ratings? I would love to browse through them if you have a list/link, it would be greatly appreciated.

[UndecidedFrog]

Curious, where do you get these ratings? I would love to browse through them if you have a list/link, it would be greatly appreciated.

Scouts, Inc.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft

RG3 has moved up....97/100.

[Susie Q]

ummm ..... where was he today?

He is in Arizona and yesterday he was in Denver. Could be the reason he didn't reconstruct his contract because maybe he was told that the team was releasing a lot of players and he didn't want to finish his years playing for a brand new team with little chance of making the playoffs in his final years. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it. By the way I think he made the correct choice for him.

[dgambill]

ummm ..... where was he today?

We don't know what he and Irsay talked about. Irsay could have said we are drafting Luck and rebuilding and what you do doesn't matter. He could have said I don't want a qb controversy. They both could have said anything just to make the PR look good for each which is what happened. Point is...Irsay CUT Peyton....Peyton didn't do anything wrong. Irsay wanted to give Peyton ALL guarenteed money in his last contract..Peyton gave him an out...and now Irsay used it. It may work out in the long run for each and that is what I am hoping but PM didn't hold this team hostage with his contract. To say it was his decision it end like this is laughable...he didn't hold out or say he wouldn't play next year...he wanted to come back...Irsay said we are going to blow the team up and he wanted Peyton to go elsewhere. So Peyton graceously accepted and bowed out with style.

[TennEngr]

And what would the Colts have then? They would have a 36 year old QB. One whose neck is damaged. Recovery was only a remote possibility. I predict he'll never be great again. And his sad, final days won't be at Lucas Oil. Be thankful for that!

Well ... since you are only predicting let me give it a shot. His sad final days might include a Super Bowl win for either the Dolphins, Broncos or Cardinals; 2 or 3 playoff years with the Dolphins, Broncos or Cardinals; 2 or 3 12+ win seasons with the Dolphins, Broncos or Cardinals or any number of scenarios that would not be called "SAD" and none of them would be in Lucas Oil stadum. GO COLTS!

[TennEngr]

*ic ... no way! I would have liked to seen us get 3 number ones and a number 2 while keeping manning but *ic not to do it ... come on.

[gacker65]

Really? If Luck gets to SB 4 times, and makes HOF, like Jim Kelly has, that would be bad? Really?

The Question will remain, if the fans will think he was great at that time. Having a friend who is from Buffalo and watched Kelly play, it was not till after Kelly retired and they had some bad seasons that they realized just what Kelly meant to the team. That was the reason I stated that. The implied question is, will we call for Luck's head if something like that happens or will we call him great at that time and not after he is gone from the team. I thought Kelly was a good QB and got a bad rap from most of the Bills fans.

[Portage Coltfans]

Or he could be like JIm Kelly of the Bills of the 80s and get the team to the SB and lose not once but 4 times. Would be a good pick huh.

hey, be nice to jim kelly! going to 4 straight will not ever happen again. that is something special

but i agree with you, shoulda traded that motha @$%^%$$ pick!

[Portage Coltfans]

I disagree. If Luck was not in this year's draft, the Colts would have still made the moves they did, and pick RG3 with the overall #1 pick.

that thought makes me throw up in my mouth

[BmoreColt]

Even Bmore wouldn't have done that.

I am the one who acquired value, not gave it up.

[ColtsBlueFL]

The Question will remain, if the fans will think he was great at that time. Having a friend who is from Buffalo and watched Kelly play, it was not till after Kelly retired and they had some bad seasons that they realized just what Kelly meant to the team. That was the reason I stated that. The implied question is, will we call for Luck's head if something like that happens or will we call him great at that time and not after he is gone from the team. I thought Kelly was a good QB and got a bad rap from most of the Bills fans.

Fair question, and one that will be answered in time.

Going back to Kelly, I have never been a Bills fan... ever. But I quite admired Kelly, and his K-gun and hurry up no huddle offense. Very similar things happened one day a few years later by another HOF QB in Indy ;)

[rabidfan77]

Rams got a king's ransom for the second pick. (Three firsts and a second). Think of what the Colts could have gotten for the first pick. Wouldn't be easier to rebuild with 5 first round picks and 4 second round picks in the next three years? Trust me, Andrew Luck will not be the last great QB to play football.

Yeah but the Rams have Sam Bradford aka franchise qb trust me if they didn't have him they would've kept the pick as of now the Colts don't have that luxury so they are going to draft him, despite all the talk of Manning there is no guarantee he'll be ready by Sept., and while I like many colts fan were upset with the move I have calmed down and looked at it realistically. The reason the colts have been so great was we were set at qb. Now if the colts take all the picks and can't find a good qb you would call Irsay the dumbest man in the world for going through this again in a few more years if peyton was healthy and returned.

[rabidfan77]

That's just a crazy amount to give up....especially to move up 6 spots.

Snyder is an *.

No Snyder is desperate to get a franchise qb like a good 10-12 teams in the league right now, there are 5 pieces that every team needs to be solid at on both side of the ball to win championships. QB your field general, WR your play maker, LT your blind side protector and on defense you add DE your pass rusher and CB another playmaker without those pieces no team can be successful.

[funktacious2]

One thing is certain. The Rams are jumping for joy. lol

[rabidfan77]

I think if you asked all Colts fans 3 months ago if they would trade the pick for what the Rams got and roll the dice with Manning and friends for another 3 years OR if they would completely clean house and draft Luck - then I am quite confident 95% would have gone with the first option.

No I think that's more like 50% because personally I'd like to see the colts return to dominance of the AFC South for hopefully another 14 years as oppose to 3 years and then we're back going through the same problem. Ask yourself this would you put a band aid on a deep cut or go and get stitches like a normal person? And I'm not a Luck fan at least not this 1st yr while I move on from Peyton but Irsay made the long term decision whether it's right or not time will tell but in the NFL planning for the future is what makes teams successful or not.